Armor scaling reduced! what next!

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

I don't know where it started but the enemy nerf is killing me. I remember when the bursa was introduced and boy were they a problem they alone put the Corpus on the map. Then they got nerfed and the number you see in matches reduced 😥. Then the Corpus came out with a different kind of nullifier you could turn the corner and BOOM no powers. Then they got reworked so now you can stop them before they even get a chance to hit there ability😥. Oh nullifier bubble can be popped if you hit the box on the top. Now the toughest faction is getting there armor scaled down😥.

Now I'm not looking for Warframe endgame. I don't know the ratio of people saying it's to challenging vs those who feel it's not challenging enough. However those challenges made the game great in my humble opinion. 

Warframe civil war? 

Anyway now more than ever I'm looking for a Warframe split. DE has shown that they can scale the enemy (Railjack) so level 50 enemies in space are way strong than the cushy ones on the planets hahaha. DE has also shown us they can individualize leveling (Lich). We can have a lich on the same map and if mine is level 5 and yours is level 1 the maps level will be determined by who picks the mission. 50-60 if you pick 90-110 if I pick.

So with all that being said can we have MR scaling. So you will see two missions one with the current level and one at MR level (example MR25, enemies start at 155). Now I'm sure that everyone has there version of what would make them happy and this is just mine.

I just don't like having the enemy constantly nerfed, while the Warframes are reworked and buffed. Again this is just my opinion.

What say you my fellow Tenno!

[kapn655321]

"Just use corrosive," may as well have been the game's tag line for the last 5 years. It demanded players not use what they enjoy, but what works.. meaning only a fraction of the weapons meant anything in the long run. Some enemies tanked so many hits that it made the game boring, creating ludonarrative dissonance when people pumped more bullets into the grineer than they had body mass to accommodate, cheapening the whole experience, and garnering a bad reputation for balance and combat.

So before they did that, they gave us an enemy that we can customize, rank up to the game's breaking point when we feel like it, and demands killing legions of enemies to get to. Likewise, we still have endurance survivals, new sentient enemies, and who-knows-what around the corner with New War.

Arbitrary armor, and obligatory dedication to corrosive didn't make the game challenging as much as predictable and tacky. I agree whole heartedly that we'd all love more mechanic driven intense combat that challenges our wits, skills, and understanding of the game.. but armor wasn't that, and it stood directly in the way of achieving that goal in the long term.

Edited January 18, 2020 by kapn655321

[lukinu_u]

Their recent talk about armor nerfing is probably more intersting than you could think.
They are talking a "S curve scaling", which mean even enemies above lvl 80-100 will keep a reasonable scaling instead of getting thousand of time their EHP depending on the level.

Yeah, it definitely sound bad right now but if enemies scaling isn't broken like it is now, it means weapons can be balanced around it, so a weapon that can reliably kill level 160 enemies with a few bullets will no longer OS lvl 80 enemies, which allow more diversity in playstyles if the balance is done correctly.

A big issue we have right know is with AoE of fast fire rate weapons balancing. Since the weapons need to be balanced to be usable at "high level" compared to single projectile, they generally get enough damage to kill efficiently in a few shot at lvl 100+, but since they are balanced for more than average/high level, when playing normal missions you still one shot with these and high damage signle projectiles get no benefit and are not viable anymore, which restrict the choice.
All over the game life, the community used Ignis, Amprex, Tonkor, long range whips/polearm, AoE powers, etc... all stuff that aren't super strong at high level where snipers/shotgun or other might be betters because of higher damage, but we don't need this because the broken scaling force these weapon to be usable at "high level" which let them OS lower level enemies, encourage playing these at normal level.

Honestly, I can't wait to see what they plan with difficulty scaling and weapons reworks.

[Elyndr]

Also, MR does not always mean power or ability to do "high level" missions. I have not bothered increasing my MR for years because I find leveling weapons and things I don't like to be boring. However, with as many hours as I have spent playing the game I can do missions that are considered "end game". The change to armor will be a welcome one, as it should provide a good difficulty without being annoying at higher levels. 

[Gabbynaru]

You do know more armor doesn't mean more challenge, right? It just means more bullet sponge, and the less of that we get, the better. That goes for any other game too. Bullet sponges are not challenging, bullet sponges are not fun, bullet sponges are a waste of time. So let the armor "nerf" happen a thousand times over for all I care, cause nothing will make me look at bullet sponges and say "yup, this is a good addition to this game".

[taiiat]

23 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

"Just use corrosive," may as well have been the game's tag line for the last 5 years. It demanded players not use what they enjoy, but what works.. meaning only a fraction of the weapons meant anything in the long run.

stop living in 2014, that hasn't been the only route to Killing Enemies for a long time.
there are many options, and the people that aren't doing what you say is "mandatory to play" are probably Killing Enemies faster than you are as it is.

*micdrop*

9 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

It just means more bullet sponge

in 99% of playable content, where even are the bullet sponges anyways. either way 90% of the Enemies die in a single hit and then the Heavies that are left die in like half a dozen.

Edited January 18, 2020 by taiiat

[kapn655321]

Just now, taiiat said:

*micdrop*

Hey, you dropped this.

Unless you follow the paint-by-numbers method to make em busted, most of the guns fall tragically short, meaning there is a narrow margin of weapons that both accept and excel at the reliable methods to kill. Corrosive or not, many weapons will just suck currently against high armor units. Not suck by comparison, but an exercise in futility.

But, I know you, you know me, this goes nowhere. Have a nice day.

[Gabbynaru]

2 minutes ago, taiiat said:

in 99% of playable content, where even are the bullet sponges anyways. either way 90% of the Enemies die in a single hit and then the Heavies that are left die in like half a dozen.

You really think they'll keep the official content cap at level 80 forever? If they don't change the broken armor scaling, there will be a time where the official content cap will be in the range where enemies are total bullet sponges. As you implied, it'll make no difference at the levels we're at now if they change the armor scaling, but it will be way less annoying in the future. So there literally is no negative to this.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, kapn655321 said:

But, I know you, you know me, this goes nowhere. Have a nice day.

just don't try to imply things like "you have to spam Corrosive Status or you can't Kill anything" that aren't true and it's all good.

1 hour ago, Gabbynaru said:

As you implied, it'll make no difference at the levels we're at now if they change the armor scaling, but it will be way less annoying in the future. So there literally is no negative to this.

the negative would be that it doesn't really change much, meh. 90% of the Enemies that Spawn are exists to be useless garbage either way, if most of the Enemies are garbage and easy to Kill with basically anything, then pretty meh from me.

if, if, if - the game changes that and we don't have so many Enemies that exist to be useless, then okay i might agree with changing some stuff.

[kapn655321]

57 minutes ago, taiiat said:

if, if, if

The game is a work in progress. It may take a long time for certain features to get addressed, adjusted, so be it; I'm hanging in to see when they get some love. They'll build the whole damn system around me, as they do with other players. If that's going to get under your skin, then let it. Dwell on it. Snarl and growl. Rawr. Give me hell, Tiger. Whatever you gotta do to get over it. I'm here, and you can't stop me from wanting fun janky weapons to be less janky, or stinky AI to be less stinky.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Zero-0-P said:

Then the Corpus came out with a different kind of nullifier you could turn the corner and BOOM no powers. Then they got reworked so now you can stop them before they even get a chance to hit there ability😥. Oh nullifier bubble can be popped if you hit the box on the top.

The original Combas / Scrambus / Whateverus / Nulliferus unit type was ridiculous. You would walk into an INVISIBLE field and suddenly be unable to use your powers, or suddenly be unable to use your powers because an enemy in another room slid in and activated an invisible field. There was no feedback to the player other than "powers won't work" and knowing about the unit type in question beforehand. This also sucks if your powers were to prevent yourself from dying, such as Mesa or Gara. The "nerf" was an improvement to a piece of gameplay that was ridiculous to work against.

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

Soooooooooo many opinions where do I start. 

8 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

 

8 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

Honestly, I can't wait to see what they plan with difficulty scaling and weapons reworks.

 

Ok I do agree I am curious to see where this goes.

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

Ok, so and I don't mean to trivialize the armor argument, however with corrosive, corrosive projection, heat (now), toxic (bypass armor), slash (bypass armor) radiation, puncture and a number of frames that reduce or remove armor completely and the fact that it's 1 faction (ok 2 counting corrupted)and let's be honest only 4 units in that faction(2 in corrupted). I honestly didn't think the armor scaling issue was as big as it is. 

Ok well we are going to have those who think armor scaling is a issue and those that don't that is clear.

Question, what is a challenge to you?

High armored enemies aren't a challenge they are just annoying.... Isn't that a boss or mini boss just a high armor enemy. Corpus nullifying you without warning isn't challenging it's annoying..... Forcing you to be more aware and use skill over ability in a clutch situation. I figured anything that made the game tougher was good. I don't follow any meta I play what I love and have fun.

I don't know I'll agree to disagree and say challenge is different for different people.

[Sojufueled]

It's weird that armor even scales because, being a percentage damage reduction, it inherently scales. Is it because they don't want to raise HP values? If that's the case, it's all kind of an illusion. It's currently exponential armor scaling with health scaling to match. Enemy damage also scales with it until you hit the game's natural endstate, armor stripping mandatory to kill enemies and perfect CC or invincibility instead of armor, health or shields.

[DarthIronclad]

Maybe someone should try to do the math with existing numbers but using the equation of a s curve and see how thing will turn out?

[XaoGarrent]

On 2020-01-18 at 6:05 PM, (PS4)Zero-0-P said:

What say you my fellow Tenno!

Don't look at me, I had suggested they flatten out armor scaling altogether, buff up HP in its place and reduce both the positive and negative damage type multipliers.

The armor getting completely broken past level 100 is just one of the many problems with the scaling system. I think they're afraid to give it a proper overhaul, honestly, due to just how central to the game it is.

[Redfeather75]

I just found a lich + sentients + bursa on lua and it was completely insane. Yes they were all together in the same mission on lua.

The game has no difficulty check.