How do people feel about the Arcane changes after Scarlet Spear?

[TheLexiConArtist]

I find everyone complaining about 'more grind' with the rank 5 arcanes to be absolutely dumb.

It's literally 1 (one) more than you would have farmed for a double-stack to begin with. Number tweaks and mechanical tweaks aside, there's literally a mere 5% more of a task to 'fully complete' the set - and that's after the event which is a million times easier by virtue of removing the RNG wall.

If you want to complain about the mechanics and numbers, do so. But calling it 'more grindy' as a result of moving from 2x3 to 1x5 is just disingenuous.

[Acos]

I am constantly confused by people complaining that SS is "grindy" when the previous method for acquiring Arcanes was one of the grindiest things I've done in any MMO ever. Getting a Rank 5 arcane right now is dramatically faster than getting a Rank 3 Arcane previously. I've been able to complete several sets I didn't have the energy to bother with which has fun since now I can test out a broader range of builds. 

As for the "re-balance" I'm mostly indifferent. Defensive Arcanes will still make you much tankier, offensive Arcanes will mostly make you overkill things harder. I don't play much past level 200+ though where the adjustments might create a more palpable difference. 

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

9 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

I find everyone complaining about 'more grind' with the rank 5 arcanes to be absolutely dumb.

It's literally 1 (one) more than you would have farmed for a double-stack to begin with. Number tweaks and mechanical tweaks aside, there's literally a mere 5% more of a task to 'fully complete' the set - and that's after the event which is a million times easier by virtue of removing the RNG wall.

If you want to complain about the mechanics and numbers, do so. But calling it 'more grindy' as a result of moving from 2x3 to 1x5 is just disingenuous.

To be fair, Nullifier required a rank 3 + rank 0 (11 total), or a rank 1 + rank 2 (9 total) to reach 100% immunity, now it takes 21 total.

[TheLexiConArtist]

Just now, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

To be fair, Nullifier required a rank 3 + rank 0 (11 total), or a rank 1 + rank 2 (9 total) to reach 100% immunity, now it takes 21 total.

Fair point, but that's a number problem that I think was just unavoidable due to the bar set by the old design.

Still, most of the proc arcanes are ill-desired, Nullifier is probably the most relevant but also common as dirt. It's hard not to have had a double-stack of that before you're anywhere notable on the other ones whilst contending with limited drop tables and RNG.

[SneakyErvin]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

To be fair, Nullifier required a rank 3 + rank 0 (11 total), or a rank 1 + rank 2 (9 total) to reach 100% immunity, now it takes 21 total.

And now it only wastes one spot in your loadout. So you can actually use one useful arcane now aswell, which is now also stronger.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And now it only wastes one spot in your loadout. So you can actually use one useful arcane now aswell, which is now also stronger.

Sure, you have more forced options but the grind was more than doubled for entry into Eidolon hunts. If anything, DE made learning Eidolons far worse since you need 21 of these to gain immunity instead of 9 or 11. Endgame setups benefit but players doing #x3s are not exactly in short supply of common arcanes. Somehow DE made Eidolons pointless and more grindy at the same time.

[Nichivo]

I miss stacking,  but it was just a matter of taking time to break a rank three, rank the other rank three. 

[White_Matter]

21 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I agree the repetative part could be cut down, but it still doesnt provide us with an option of something that would be better. We cant just say "fix it!" without providing options on how it could be set up otherwise. It is kinda like when people say defense should be fixed, but they never bother saying how. Would people be happy if the condrix was more interactive and provided a threat on its own? It would still be the same, going to 17 points and do the same thing. 

I can provide options for sure but I highly doubt they'd take that into consideration, considering the direction they've taken with the game. They can't produce quality content, so they are focusing more and more on the quantity. 

One simple way to make the mission more interesting is that there could be a few different objective types within the mission(like bounties) spread around different tilesets(not just the same map over and over again). So instead of repeating the same  thing 17 times, you could do 3 or 4 objectives, with the option of not extracting and doing another round for more credits. Also doing the objectives faster could grant bonus credits, like how the bounties grant extra rewards for better performance. So people would have an actual incentive to get better, rather than get better so that they can get over with it real fast.

And this is an idea off the top of my head and it is already better than what we were given.

[Hexsing]

19 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Just PuG the ground missions.

1. Go to objective marker.

2. Shoot the Condrix "eye".

3. Clear out sentients if so one else has done it.

4. Repeat 2 and 3.

5. When condrix is down and a yellow circle shows on the map, plant the oplink you bought from Little Duck and defend it till the counter reaches 100%.

6. Repeat 1-5 16 more times.

7. Grofit.

Only tip I can give aside from that is bring a heavy hitting corrosive weapon. A sniper, chakhurr, redeemer prime or something else. Bring a Catchmoon or Arca Plasmor for Aerolysts, or jump into operator mod with a Shwaak prism, either of those 3 options take care of the Aerolyst canisters quickly so you can kill it.

I got ya.  I just dont have the mods for it.  Or I don't feel like I have the mods or the frames.  Or the mods for the frame. 

Always worried about being the slow person being carried. 

I have some of the weapons you mentioned.  But I have not used forma on them to get them where they need to be.  

Hence the intimidation.  I usually solo pretty much all content and avoid group stuff. 

I feel like this is more geared to well modded veterans. Which is good because they deserve end game stuff.

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Sure, you have more forced options but the grind was more than doubled for entry into Eidolon hunts. If anything, DE made learning Eidolons far worse since you need 21 of these to gain immunity instead of 9 or 11. Endgame setups benefit but players doing #x3s are not exactly in short supply of common arcanes. Somehow DE made Eidolons pointless and more grindy at the same time.

Or you just do like before, bring a frame that doesnt care or you know... move away from the very dead givaway moment when the eidolon needs to fart. It isnt like you can damage it during the discharge. so it is pretty much bullet jump away, pop operator and be back at its feet before the discharge is over. The immunity arcane is highly redundant since we have several ways to avoid the AoE and we always know when it will happen.

Before even obtaining those 11 under the old system you should have already had the movement down to not needing them. I rather take a great deal of more power for everything else than have a very situational and pointless arcane stuck at the old values.

2 hours ago, White_Matter said:

I can provide options for sure but I highly doubt they'd take that into consideration, considering the direction they've taken with the game. They can't produce quality content, so they are focusing more and more on the quantity. 

One simple way to make the mission more interesting is that there could be a few different objective types within the mission(like bounties) spread around different tilesets(not just the same map over and over again). So instead of repeating the same  thing 17 times, you could do 3 or 4 objectives, with the option of not extracting and doing another round for more credits. Also doing the objectives faster could grant bonus credits, like how the bounties grant extra rewards for better performance. So people would have an actual incentive to get better, rather than get better so that they can get over with it real fast.

And this is an idea off the top of my head and it is already better than what we were given.

Hmm that sounds like some objective based survival or something, that could be really cool. Maybe have some boss mobs at certain time intervals to make it more interesting. I kinda hoped the Aerolyst would be like a miniboss, but it is just not threatening at all. Heck it dies quicker and does less than the other good 'ol sentients. I could really see something with different areas to scan across the map along with different objectives aswell, where the condrix itself would only be one of those objectives. Space could kinda be the same, different regions across the ship need kill codes, each region on the ship has a different objective alongside protecting the oplink.

1 hour ago, Hexsing said:

I got ya.  I just dont have the mods for it.  Or I don't feel like I have the mods or the frames.  Or the mods for the frame. 

Always worried about being the slow person being carried. 

I have some of the weapons you mentioned.  But I have not used forma on them to get them where they need to be.  

Hence the intimidation.  I usually solo pretty much all content and avoid group stuff. 

I feel like this is more geared to well modded veterans. Which is good because they deserve end game stuff.

Dont worry about getting carried, in most groups there is always someone with practically nothing to do since things just end so damn fast. With the ground missions you can easily get away with looking useful by just bringing a Nova modded for maxed out slow and duration, to make everything on the map move at snailpace and take extra damage. 

But I do get the feeling. I often think the same regarding new stuff when I'm not fully onboard with what is needed or if I feel I lack equipment.

 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

19 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

I find everyone complaining about 'more grind' with the rank 5 arcanes to be absolutely dumb.

It's literally 1 (one) more than you would have farmed for a double-stack to begin with. Number tweaks and mechanical tweaks aside, there's literally a mere 5% more of a task to 'fully complete' the set - and that's after the event which is a million times easier by virtue of removing the RNG wall.

If you want to complain about the mechanics and numbers, do so. But calling it 'more grindy' as a result of moving from 2x3 to 1x5 is just disingenuous.

That's assuming you already grinded, or paid for, 2 rank 3 of the same arcane. 

 

How many people do you think previously had ONE rank 3 energize, let alone two? 

[(NSW)Reason]

4 hours ago, Hexsing said:

I got ya.  I just dont have the mods for it.  Or I don't feel like I have the mods or the frames.  Or the mods for the frame. 

Always worried about being the slow person being carried. 

I have some of the weapons you mentioned.  But I have not used forma on them to get them where they need to be.  

Hence the intimidation.  I usually solo pretty much all content and avoid group stuff. 

I feel like this is more geared to well modded veterans. Which is good because they deserve end game stuff.

If you have a limbo, just build for duration and a little bit of range, and when everyone puts the oplink down, use your 4 and your 2, and bam you're 50% of the group's work, practically carrying the team. This is my favorite role since you don't have to do very much, but you are absolutely vital.

If you've got a limbo prime, you don't even have to forma your limbo. Maybe you can run a regular limbo without any forma, I don't know, I just have a prime. 

If you've got a frost, you can build for Strength and duration, and protect oplinks with snowglobe AND strip armor on late rotation sentients which is a HUGE buff for your dps's. Once again, practically carrying the team

If you've got a Gara you can also protect oplinks with your 4

If you've got a slowva, you can just spam your 4 and make the entire thing a cake walk

If you've got a Nekros, you can double everyone's rewards and make shedu parts rain which can be sold for plat, everyone will love you

Wisp can boost survivability and nuke down annoying aerolysts. Chromas can buff the entire team, Banshee can give a huge boost to damage to your dps, Oberons are always welcome to keep everyone alive, Octavia gives dmg and survivability boosts. Even Rhino focused on roar can make the whole runs faster.

There are lots of ways to contribute to ground squad, you just have to focus more on the group, and not on yourself. The amount of times I see a wukong or Ash or solo Rhino running ground squad and getting carried whilst contributing nothing to the group and instead just making the run harder is infuriating. 

[TheLexiConArtist]

6 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

That's assuming you already grinded, or paid for, 2 rank 3 of the same arcane. 

How many people do you think previously had ONE rank 3 energize, let alone two? 

Assuming what? They have one more to get than they did in the previous system in order to reach peak completion, no matter how much they'd gotten in the previous system.

Whether you had 20 and needed 0 (now 1) or had 0 and needed 20 (now 21), that's still the same 'more grind' than before - again, specific arcanes' number/mechanical changes notwithstanding.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Assuming what? They have one more to get than they did in the previous system in order to reach peak completion, no matter how much they'd gotten in the previous system.

Whether you had 20 and needed 0 (now 1) or had 0 and needed 20 (now 21), that's still the same 'more grind' than before - again, specific arcanes' number/mechanical changes notwithstanding.

I cant believe I have to explain to you how basic math works. "11 more arcanes" is more than "1 more arcanes". 

 

When the update dropped you would only need 1 more IF and only if you already had 2 rank 3 sets. Which I doubt was the case for most people. Like I said before, how many people do you think had ONE set of energize? Let alone two. 

 

It would be reasonable enough if a rank 5 arcane was better than a rank 3 arcane. But in several cases, well that isnt the case. They're sometimes either a side grade or straight up worse. And even THAT wouldnt be so icky if several rank 3 arcanes were suddenly not made significantly worse than they used to be. But you know, you can grind to undo the nerf. Kinda.

[Oreades]

.... I thought the arcane changes where great even before scarlet spear. 

Because looking at the big picture most of them, while arguably more expensive, came out with a hefty buff if not directly then by proxy of the fact that you could now run them with another arcane.

Scarlet spear did take a lot of the edge off and once it was working let people slurp up most of the arcane sets they are/where interested in.

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I cant believe I have to explain to you how basic math works. "11 more arcanes" is more than "1 more arcanes". 

 

When the update dropped you would only need 1 more IF and only if you already had 2 rank 3 sets. Which I doubt was the case for most people. Like I said before, how many people do you think had ONE set of energize? Let alone two. 

 

It would be reasonable enough if a rank 5 arcane was better than a rank 3 arcane. But in several cases, well that isnt the case. They're sometimes either a side grade or straight up worse. And even THAT wouldnt be so icky if several rank 3 arcanes were suddenly not made significantly worse than they used to be. But you know, you can grind to undo the nerf. Kinda.

I can't believe I have to explain to you how basic reading comprehension works.

To complete your arcane potential you required 20 arcanes in the old system.

To complete your arcane potential you require 21 arcanes in the new system.

You need one more, in total, to finish your set. How many of the previous 20 you already had does not change that figure as you can break apart anything you had towards a second Rank 3 arcane in order to fund towards a Rank 5.

 

Numerical changes can be discussed as numerical changes, mechanical shifts (energise with cooldown) can be discussed as mechanical shifts.

Grind is to be discussed as grind.

Stop comparing apples to oranges.

Edited April 13, 2020 by TheLexiConArtist

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

18 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

I can't believe I have to explain to you how basic reading comprehension works.

To complete your arcane potential you required 20 arcanes in the old system.

To complete your arcane potential you require 21 arcanes in the new system.

You need one more, in total, to finish your set. How many of the previous 20 you already had does not change that figure as you can break apart anything you had towards a second Rank 3 arcane in order to fund towards a Rank 5.

 

Numerical changes can be discussed as numerical changes, mechanical shifts (energise with cooldown) can be discussed as mechanical shifts.

Grind is to be discussed as grind.

Stop comparing apples to oranges.

I cant believe I have to explain this again. Jesus christ. This is painful. Is your reading comprehension this bad or are you being difficult just to satisfy your epeen? 

 

"To complete your arcane potential you needed 20 arcanes" if and only if you wanted two of the same arcane. And what I've tried to tell you already is most people didnt do that. 

How many players do you think were running around with 2x rank 3 arcane energize or grace for example? 

 

You're demonstrating willful ignorance (and being condescending about it like you actually have a point, you dont) by deliberately ignoring and REFUSING. TO. ACCEPT. that it is a lot of extra grind for a lot of people. 

Under your own definition of what "what grind is to be defined as". 

21 is more than 10. 

10 is less than 21. 

I'll say this again just because math is hard most people didnt already have 20 arcanes. They had 10. If that. 

 

Now, are you satisfied with this big fat L or would you like more? 

Edited April 14, 2020 by (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA

[Chaemyerelis]

Ive barely noticed a difference.🤷‍♂️

[TheLexiConArtist]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I cant believe I have to explain this again. Jesus christ. This is painful. Is your reading comprehension this bad or are you being difficult just to satisfy your epeen? 

"To complete your arcane potential you needed 20 arcanes" if and only if you wanted two of the same arcane. And what I've tried to tell you already is most people didnt do that. 

How many players do you think were running around with 2x rank 3 arcane energize or grace for example? 

You're demonstrating willful ignorance (and being condescending about it like you actually have a point, you dont) by deliberately ignoring and REFUSING. TO. ACCEPT. that it is a lot of extra grind for a lot of people. 

Under your own definition of what "what grind is to be defined as". 

21 is more than 10. 

10 is less than 21. 

I'll say this again just because math is hard most people didnt already have 20 arcanes. They had 10. If that. 

Now, are you satisfied with this big fat L or would you like more? 

Okay, thanks for making yourself look an even bigger pillock than before.

A single rank 3 arcane is still 10 arcanes. A rank 5 arcane in the new system takes the place of having more than one rank 3 Arcane available in the old system.

So if someone wasn't aiming for 20 arcanes before, surprise surprise, there is exactly zero more grind to reach the same arcane completion level as before (single rank 3, 10=10).

If, however, someone was aiming to double-stack, there is exactly 5% more grind to reach the completion level (two rank 3 -> one rank 5, 20 -> 21).

 

Because as I've said, 'grind is grind, numbers are numbers', we're not talking about the specific changes to specific arcanes that, in some cases, might make a current rank 3 lesser than its previous incarnation, or as was mentioned, the unavoidable casualty of Proc Resistance arcanes needing more for 100% now due to their previous potency.

We're strictly talking about acquisition, but you want to equate a rank 5 arcane with a single rank 3 arcane, which is strictly disingenuous at best, imbecilic at worst.