Shoot vector pad to turn it into bounce and vice versa

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

What title says...

Ok i know some people hate vector pad and think this ability is awful

But believe it or not, this ability is a LOT more powerful than a sequence of bullet jumps spammed over time 

And besides, Vauban got more than enough tricks to be viable, a single utility ability won't hurt 

That's for vertical momentum, but what if...we can shoot vector pad and turn it into bounce 

Bounce distance is affected by strength like vector pad

Thus retaining Vauban's vertical mobility once again 

The question is do i really need bounce? 

The answer...if it's more powerful than a bullet jump...yes 

Say it's powerful enough to climb the fortuna building in a single hop 

 

 

[Blexander]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

But believe it or not, this ability is a LOT more powerful than a sequence of bullet jumps spammed over time 

You can believe whatever you want and still be wrong. Firstly, bulletjumps are free, and secondly, they're easier to manoeuvre with.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

And besides, Vauban got more than enough tricks to be viable, a single utility ability won't hurt 

It's not really "Utility" if it's unnecessary. Equinox's 3rd ability is Utility, Vector Pad is a meme and nothing more.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

That's for vertical momentum, but what if...we can shoot vector pad and turn it into bounce 

Bounce distance is affected by strength like vector pad

Thus retaining Vauban's vertical mobility once again 

The question is do i really need bounce? 

The answer...if it's more powerful than a bullet jump...yes 

Say it's powerful enough to climb the fortuna building in a single hop 

But why?

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

11 minutes ago, Blexander said:

It's not really "Utility" if it's unnecessary. Equinox's 3rd ability is Utility, Vector Pad is a meme and nothing more

 

11 minutes ago, Blexander said:

But why?

Why not?

You finally have a frame that can strip armor, buff damage, scale with enemy level, deal insane AOE bursts...and lockdown rooms

What's hurting you having one gimmick ability inside a power that already has powerful other abilities 

 

No one said zephyr's tailwind is a meme 

No one said zephyr's airburst is a meme...that's already two abilities wasted in a warframe's kit

Vauban has room for a gimmicky ability 

I've used it...and it works...it's fast and i can control it 

14 minutes ago, Blexander said:

You can believe whatever you want and still be wrong.

I'm wrong about the fact that vector pad is 10x more powerful than bulletjumps?

Well you definitely haven't used it much...

 

We don't have to turn every ability into damage or damage reduction 

Let people who want to have fun to have fun 

[LAD.Y]

i would much rather they make vector pad part of his dodge roll or double shift like limbo. then I wouldn't have an issue with its existence. 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

Just now, LAD.Y said:

i would much rather they make vector pad part of his dodge roll or double shift like limbo. then I wouldn't have an issue with its existence. 

That wouldn't work

Because basically a 200% strength vauban can send you flying, so people who do not want forced vector pad wouldn't appreciate it

 

On the other hand people who want high vector pad speed won't have the ability to mod for more speed because it's a passive 

Also it makes zero sense

[LAD.Y]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

That wouldn't work

Because basically a 200% strength vauban can send you flying, so people who do not want forced vector pad wouldn't appreciate it

 

On the other hand people who want high vector pad speed won't have the ability to mod for more speed because it's a passive 

Also it makes zero sense

lol you're clearly not open to anything but your idea. you get mad at others in chat shooting you down, yet the moment someone even tries compromising with your idea you act the same. it's hypocritical, as if your entire argument isn't simply 'why not'. 

A) you're assuming people are going to suddenly be less likely to see a vector pad because it's attached to a passive ability. Which okay. That makes sense. People would be as likely to be mad about it already in that case then. We already have Volt with move speed and ways to opt out of said move speed, having a 'no vector pad' setting isn't impossible.

B) you're assuming they would change that functionality that Ab.Strength won't effect it anymore if it's a passive. Which frankly doesn't need to be the case. it's extra mobility that does no damage, most passives in the game are pointless (ie Mag Booty Suction) being able to control the speed of said p

C) It makes 0 since? Fam your entire argument makes as much sense. 1) Most people hate Vector pad and certainly don't care enough about it to want to add MORE to it 2) being shot to the top of a fortuna tower? again most of the game is in tight enclosed spaces there's literally no need for that. 

 

Don't bother replying. it's not like either of these things are ever going to happen. You can keep your soapbox I'm leaving.

Edited April 15, 2020 by LAD.Y

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

15 minutes ago, LAD.Y said:

lol you're clearly not open to anything but your idea. you get mad at others in chat shooting you down, yet the moment someone even tries compromising with your idea you act the same. it's hypocritical, as if your entire argument isn't simply 'why not'. 

Have you ever been in an argument before?

Am i not allowed to criticise people's idea just like people criticise mine?

The guy before you basically said a straight no to my idea...i told him why not and gave him a few reasons he thought i was strawmanning for some reason and left...

It's really sad, especially that all i am asking for is a change to freaking..vector pad...and people all of a sudden aren't open for an argument with me...callig me a hypocrite and what not

15 minutes ago, LAD.Y said:

Don't bother replying. it's not like either of these things are ever going to happen. You can keep your soapbox I'm leaving

Bye 🙂

 

It's clear that this forum is getting intense for no reason

Edited April 15, 2020 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[Blexander]

46 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

The guy before you basically said a straight no to my idea...i told him why not and gave him a few reasons he thought i was strawmanning for some reason and left...

Because your rebuttal was literally just a series of strawman arguments. And because I'm all for open discourse, I'll brake your arguments down one by one.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

No one said zephyr's tailwind is a meme

Because it isn't. And if you're comparing it to Vector Pad... well, Tail Wind isn't a single axis ability and can be aimed. The damage is negligent. It's probably the "strongest" movement ability, and it sucks because there a total of 2 maps where it can be used to it's fullest potential. This can also be applied to current Vector Pad and even your suggest version of it. To summarise, both are nigh useless indoors and often detrimental due to inertia.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

No one said zephyr's airburst is a meme...that's already two abilities wasted in a warframe's kit

How is Airburst comparable to Vector Pad in any shape or form? Is it because both of them are garbage abilities? Even going with that argument, Airburst has SOME synergy in the rest of Zephyrs kit. And despite saying that half of her kit is wasted, you come here and suggest changes to a joke ability for a frame that's currently one of the best and most used ones.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Vauban has room for a gimmicky ability

Ok, then. How about we remove Radial Javelin from Excalibur in favour of Super Jump. I mean, nobody uses it and the ability is weak and useless. No frame has room for a gimmicky ability.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

I've used it...and it works...it's fast and i can control it

A very subjective point of view.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

I'm wrong about the fact that vector pad is 10x more powerful than bulletjumps?

Does it matter if it's more powerful when bulletjumping is a far more controllable and precise form of movement? Am I repeating myself? I feel like I am.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Well you definitely haven't used it much...

Does it matter? I don't play Vauban to go fast.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

We don't have to turn every ability into damage or damage reduction

Did I suggest for a damaging or DR ability to replace Vector Pad? I'm rereading my post and I'm not seeing it... Strange.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Let people who want to have fun to have fun

Not an argument.

 

Oh and to finish off the dissection

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Why not?

Because it's a dumb and unnecessary addition, or at the very least, it's the lowest possible priority.

 

Satisfied?

Edited April 15, 2020 by Blexander

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

19 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Satisfied

To be honest yea

This all i wanted to hear 

Now to reply

1) zephyr's airburst synergy is useless and could be close to just a visual buff to tornados 

19 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Does it matter if it's more powerful when bulletjumping is a far more controllable and precise form of movement?

Is tailwind controllable? Last time i checked it's the worst ability for mobility in close quarters 

19 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Does it matter? I don't play Vauban to go fast.

Yeah there are others that play differently...i like to utilize every part 9f a warframe's kit even if it's considered useless 

19 minutes ago, Blexander said:

very subjective point of view.

Not really, i wasn't able to control it at first, but then i meanaged to learn how to stop...it's simple really...all you have to do to cancel momentum is to slide or aim...and that's it...literally a lot more efficient than tailwind

19 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Because it's a dumb.

@LAD.Y  soo who's shooting who down

See what i have to endure from the forums?

19 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Because it isn't. And if you're comparing it to Vector Pad... well, Tail Wind isn't a single axis ability and can be aimed.

Vector pad can be aimed, and i'm literally suggesting to give it vertical momentum 

 

19 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Ok, then. How about we remove Radial Javelin from Excalibur in favour of Super Jump. I mean, nobody uses it and the ability is weak and useless. No frame has room for a gimmicky ability.

If excalibur get an cycle ability to cycle between 4 different powers then having a super jump-like in there that is worth while...wouldn't actually end the world 

Not a warframes have room for gimmicky abilities

But Vauban does because his latest rework made him incredible already

19 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Did I suggest for a damaging or DR ability to replace Vector Pad? I'm rereading my post and I'm not seeing it... Strange.

Other people did...and i think it's overkill

 

I think all you did so far is calling my idea dumb and used a series of strawman arguments that you literally accused me of 

I still think it's sad...that all this heated conversation just for a vector pad change that wouldn't hurt anybody 

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[Blexander]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

1) zephyr's airburst synergy is useless and could be close to just a visual buff to tornados

The synergy is there, and it is noticeable, but I guess you don't play her enough to know.

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Last time i checked it's the worst ability for mobility in close quarters 

And Vector Pad isn't?

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Yeah there are others that play differently...i like to utilize every part 9f a warframe's kit even if it's considered useless

Horribly inefficient.

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Not really, i wasn't able to control it at first, but then i meanaged to learn how to stop...it's simple really...all you have to do to cancel momentum is to slide or aim...and that's it...literally a lot more efficient than tailwind

Uh, no, no it isn't. Need I repeat myself again that it's a single-axis ability, as in, it can only the used to move you horizontally. And yeah, it's a subjective point of view. Not everybody wants/is going to spend time learning how to stop their momentum after using Vector Pad.

18 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Vector pad can be aimed, and i'm literally suggesting to give it vertical momentum

How can you blatantly ignore the amount of setup required to gain vertical momentum from the ability?

24 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

If excalibur get an cycle ability to cycle between 4 different powers then having a super jump-like in there that is worth while...wouldn't actually end the world

But why? Why does Excalibur need a cycle ability? Why does Vector Pad need to turn into Bounce Pad and make the player go very high? What's the point?

26 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

But Vauban does because his latest rework made him incredible already

What kind of praise is that? It would be like praising Valkyr for being able to pull enemies and herself with Ripline because she's the only one who can.

29 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Other people did...and i think it's overkill

And... how does that relate to my arguments at all?

30 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

I think all you did so far is calling my idea dumb and used a series of strawman arguments that you literally accused me of 

Look up the definition of strawman arguments.

30 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

I still think it's sad...that all this heated conversation just for a vector pad change that wouldn't hurt anybody 

And it wouldn't benefit anyone, thereby making the change unneeded. Like I said, lowest possible priority.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

7 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Horribly inefficient.

That's what you think...

My builds are designed to be efficient...effective and most importantly fun

At least that's how it is for me

I don't think calling other people's ideas dumb and then continue to also bash their builds is a good constructive argument

 

Remember i started this argument to try and make vector pad even more useful by giving it vertical momentum alongside its horizontal momentum 

While still retaining its original function...a mobility ability 

15 minutes ago, Blexander said:

How can you blatantly ignore the amount of setup required to gain vertical momentum from the ability?

Are you really that lazy or you don't realise that shooting things in this game is easy, free and  incredibly fast 

17 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Need I repeat myself again that it's a single-axis ability, as in, it can only the used to move you horizontally.

I'm asking for a way to make it vertical as well, that's my entire reason for the post😞

 

 

 

 

 

[yles9056]

2小时前 , (PS4)Hopper_Orouk 说:

I'm asking for a way to make it vertical as well, that's my entire reason for the post😞

So what are you going to use the vertical bounce for?

Surely it gives you incredible vertical jump height, but it's seldom needed.

Edited April 16, 2020 by yles9056

[Sasuda]

Just wanted say I support the idea since other people seem pretty ready to say no without actually having good reasons to say no. I'm for the why not. RIP triple jumping with the Tonkor.

I'd personally rather see the vector pad apply a 5s 100% Sprint speed and 100% bullet jump strength like the Motus mod, seems a lot more practical to me.
But adding a function to give the user more control like you suggest? Sure sounds good to me. Why not give the player more control? And with a really straightforward way to do it.

I could provide counterpoints to certain arguments that other's have put forward too, but majority of that conversation simply seems off topic to me.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

9 hours ago, Sasuda said:

Just wanted say I support the idea since other people seem pretty ready to say no without actually having good reasons to say no. I'm for the why not. RIP triple jumping with the Tonkor.

I'd personally rather see the vector pad apply a 5s 100% Sprint speed and 100% bullet jump strength like the Motus mod, seems a lot more practical to me.
But adding a function to give the user more control like you suggest? Sure sounds good to me. Why not give the player more control? And with a really straightforward way to do it.

I could provide counterpoints to certain arguments that other's have put forward too, but majority of that conversation simply seems off topic to me.

Yeah, i still don't understand what's the problem with having more options for vector pad 

 

They hate it but they don't want it to change 

 

[Blexander]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Yeah, i still don't understand what's the problem with having more options for vector pad 

 

They hate it but they don't want it to change 

 

We want to change it to something else, not give it more effects that objectively won't increase it's use. At the very least, it can stay, at best, it gets turned into a better utility ability. Even having it be a duration-based buff and not a deployable pad would make it better. But there comes the issue of redundancy, again. It's just not good or useful.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Blexander

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, Blexander said:

We want to change it to something else, not give it more effects that objectively won't increase it's use. At the very least, it can stay, at best, it gets turned into a better utility ability. Even having it be a duration-based buff and not a deployable pad would make it better. But there comes the issue of redundancy, again. It's just not good or useful.

Well you haven't tried it to judge 

I tried it...used it and modded for it 

It's a lot better than a redundant speed boost buff

 

And i mean...they can always make an augment that increases buletjump maneuvers after using vector pad

[Birdframe_Prime]

Honestly, Hopper, you're completely barking up the wrong tree here.

People wanted Bounce Pad gone, as it was a meme ability that served no functional purpose. DE replaced it with Vector Pad and they still want it gone because it's a meme ability that serves no functional purpose.

Players want it gone, entirely, not something that's a meme ability with extra steps and a waste of ammo on top.

[LascarCapable]

Bounce lost all of its utility as a mobility tool since the introduction of Bullet Jumping. After the movement system update, it simply became some kind of awkward mine, and one of the main tools for trolling squadmates.

I'm going to be bluntly honest here, but I think that bounce has no reason to come back in game, and I also thing Vector Pad shouldn't exist in Vauban's kit as well in its current form. Trolling with Vector Pad exists, and it's even more annoying than what trolling with Bounce used to be. Vector Pad in its current iteration is a meme and one hell of a potent trolling tool in my eyes.

That doesn't mean we cannot fix Vector Pad tho. Just make it only affect enemies, and maybe make it wider so it covers alleyways better. Making its width affected by power range could also be an option. Bounce could of course come back as something that do not affect allies, but in all honesty I'm not sure what niche Bounce could fill in Vauban's kit if it came back as a tool strictly made to disrupt enemies.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, LascarCapable said:

Bounce lost all of its utility as a mobility tool since the introduction of Bullet Jumping. After the movement system update, it simply became some kind of awkward mine, and one of the main tools for trolling squadmates.

I'm going to be bluntly honest here, but I think that bounce has no reason to come back in game, and I also thing Vector Pad shouldn't exist in Vauban's kit as well in its current form. Trolling with Vector Pad exists, and it's even more annoying than what trolling with Bounce used to be. Vector Pad in its current iteration is a meme and one hell of a potent trolling tool in my eyes.

That doesn't mean we cannot fix Vector Pad tho. Just make it only affect enemies, and maybe make it wider so it covers alleyways better. Making its width affected by power range could also be an option. Bounce could of course come back as something that do not affect allies, but in all honesty I'm not sure what niche Bounce could fill in Vauban's kit if it came back as a tool strictly made to disrupt enemies.

Ok first of all, i love your Broken warframe ability concept :D, it's awesome...while i still think we need something out of the norm but you're getting there

 

second of all 

i use vector pad a lot...mainly because melee coptering is now dead and there's no way to get faster in the game with vauban than this ability 

it's honestly one of the fastest methods to get around...and hope players could just accept it and unlock its true potential 

especially since Vauban doesn't need anymore damage abilities or defensive abilities or he'll get stale and boring really quickly 

i think if they managed to extend vector pad with an augment that would allow players to accept it more

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Honestly, Hopper, you're completely barking up the wrong tree here.

People wanted Bounce Pad gone, as it was a meme ability that served no functional purpose. DE replaced it with Vector Pad and they still want it gone because it's a meme ability that serves no functional purpose.

Players want it gone, entirely, not something that's a meme ability with extra steps and a waste of ammo on top.

I know people hate vector pad

And i know they don't want it 

But i don't think that it doesn't serve functional purposes

Like i said...vector pad is the new Coptering for vauban...is he can slingshot himself across maps with it if modded right

I just want people to accept this ability...i might actually show why soon

[Antris]

Having Vector Pad be affected by ability range is something that I also though would be interesting. If the duration is also removed, to be permanent till replaced, or maybe x3 or x4 then it could be also be worth while to use it as a CC tool. How the AI would handle it is what can make it "balanced" and a viable idea.

The idea of making vector pad turn into vertical launch is... doesn't seem very useful. I'm not exactly against it, but either is not going to be useful or its going to be possibly too strong? Like what if a scenario where climbing is important is implemented? (something DE needs to do btw) Then it might be useful, maybe it would trivialize the scenario, how would you balance strength variation? Probably it wouldn't matter too much considering Nova and Titania exists, food for thought.

Using bounce pad to have some fun in defense was something I usually used to do whenever I (rarely) played vauban, changing the boring repetitive tile set to be something more dynamic.

And Vector pad is actually a very interesting idea with amazing potential that is not well implemented. What if we could place them on walls? change the direction easily of already placed vector pads? use more? place on the ceiling?

Something like: a vector pad placed on the end of a corridor, redirects enemies to the left. On the left there is a vector pad that shoots them up towards the ceiling, it has enough strength on it that enemies do hit the ceiling, on the ceiling there is another that once again changes their direction and sends them to the center of the second floor, there is another vertical vector pad on the ceiling that sends them down, where they fall inside Gara's glass wall with the spectral mirrors spinning inside. The downside of giving so much power to the player though is that it could become a mechanical and boring experience after the novelty wears off, by completely removing the agency of enemies in a way that doesn't just disable them, and also would be really reaally strong and perhaps really limited, something that our skills sometimes are, like enemies immune to them etc.

Something interesting too would be to make so it only works on the players if they are crouching or sliding, and standing up removes the effect. Also not being placed by throwing a ball, just make it appear or something less clunky. Just some divagation though.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Antris

[Sasuda]

7 hours ago, Antris said:

Vector pad is actually a very interesting idea with amazing potential

You pretty much described an old idea I posted for a vector based warframe. I wouldn't mind if Vauban ended up having some of those traits. A little sad my frame probably would never exist.

[yles9056]

10小时前 , (PS4)Hopper_Orouk 说:

I just want people to accept this ability...i might actually show why soon

Please do. I'd like to see how you use it in general gameplay scenario.

[Colyeses]

On 2020-04-15 at 9:12 PM, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

You finally have a frame that can strip armor, buff damage, scale with enemy level, deal insane AOE bursts...and lockdown rooms

His AoE burst is atrocious. Not in damage, per se, but in applicability. Photon Blast feels like a flashy 'noob-trap'. 

Even with the rest of his kit offering amazing control, and with Flechettes being one of the best damaging abilities, Vector is still terrible. You claim it's fast, but I've got an 'all stats up' build for him, and that thing does NOT carry far at all. It does, however, take multiple seconds to deploy, which works against its movement value.

Even having nothing would be better than Vector/Bounce, because it would de-clutter the minelayer selection menu. And if it did get replaced with something else, it should be a defensive option like deployable cover or healing.

DE should not invest time and effort in reintroducing bounce.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

12 hours ago, Colyeses said:

His AoE burst is atrocious. Not in damage, per se, but in applicability. Photon Blast feels like a flashy 'noob-trap'. 

Even with the rest of his kit offering amazing control, and with Flechettes being one of the best damaging abilities, Vector is still terrible. You claim it's fast, but I've got an 'all stats up' build for him, and that thing does NOT carry far at all. It does, however, take multiple seconds to deploy, which works against its movement value.

Even having nothing would be better than Vector/Bounce, because it would de-clutter the minelayer selection menu. And if it did get replaced with something else, it should be a defensive option like deployable cover or healing.

DE should not invest time and effort in reintroducing bounce.

Ok it seems like you haven't played around with it too much and that's why you think it's not worth it 

For example you don't know that getting more than 224 or 56m/s isn't worth it as the speed increase beyond that is unnoticeable 

Another thing is that bullet jump get amplified by like 10x times maybe more with vector pad...if you time it right and get your muscles to get used to it

Vector pad is an amazing ability in my opinion and i will show you why and how in a second