Rivens CAN be worth 30k+ platinum.

[taiiat]

do you also say that a Car isn't allowed to have a pricetag of 7 digits?

the prices are high because the probability is low. if the price is higher, that means the probability was lower.
if you don't like that, go make the Riven yourself instead of trying to buy it from someone else. if you want a hyper-rare item it's going to be expensive in every game. that's just how that works.

if you put caps on Riven Trading, that just means the top10% of Rivens simply won't be for sale. so now you can't buy them at all.
congratulations, you've just punished everybody because you can't get over yourself.

 

if you refuse to understand the economics that drive.... well, not only essentially every game but also the real world too - what is there to even talk about.

 

 

oh damn, i forgot another of the standard bullet points that have to be repeated to people that don't understand economics.

if you setup systems that will drive the Trade prices of everything down, that makes everything worth less. both the things you wanted to buy, and the things you wanted to sell. 
all you really end up doing young padawan, is making you have less Currency to work with. it won't affect the people you think you're going to stab into the heart of - people that understand economics are going to always win, and you will always lose.
the solutions to all human problems is educating everybody. it always has been, and always will be. it is also the way that we have progressed as a Species in the past 10,000+ years - we have been slowly increasing the average Education rate in our own Species.

Edited May 7, 2020 by taiiat

[Galuf]

tl;dr; having some rivens going in 5 digit territories is legit.

1) It has been designed this way. Having the good affixes is rare, and there is a massive % based variance on top of it. It can lead to outstanding rivens having insane values.

2) Platinum value is subjective. If you are rich or extremly commited + good at the game, platinum starts having way lower importance to the point it becomes a non factor one way or another. If you are a minimum wage average player it is probably a nightmare sadly.

3) Platinum changing hands do not generate any profit for DE. Rivens is the definition of content that has been made for the game itself, not for generating long term profit.

I own few rivens that may sell at 5 digits numbers, however I rolled them myself and I won't sell them. In the end I don't see any issue with rivens. These are frustrating, but it is generic ARPG frustration: they have varying base cost and either you pay A LOT for good ones litterally sponsoring better players who took the time to roll them, or your sacrifice time to rng jesus until you get the nuts roll. Playing more(doing more sorties, buying more rivens) gives more chances at getting good base rivens as well. It's part of the gameplay loot if you chose nothing more.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Galuf

[(PSN)Earth_RickC-137]

1 minute ago, taiiat said:

do you also say that a Car isn't allowed to have a pricetag of 7 digits?

the prices are high because the probability is low. if the price is higher, that means the probability was lower.
if you don't like that, go make the Riven yourself instead of trying to buy it from someone else. if you want a hyper-rare item it's going to be expensive in every game. that's just how that works.

if you put caps on Riven Trading, that just means the top10% of Rivens simply won't be for sale. so now you can't buy them at all.
congratulations, you've just punished everybody because you can't get over yourself.

 

if you refuse to understand the ecomonics that drive.... well, not only essentially every game but also the real world too - what is there to even talk about.

It's already been stated that the price shouldn't be capped and of course there's 2 sides to that argument.

I never said i wanted to remove rivens from trade chat, and i never said anything about capping their price completely. Just in the platform i proposed. Trade chat will still be there. People will still ask egregious prices. Can't stop that. I'm proposing an alternative so that their little minority can be exactly that and the rest of us aren't having their toxicity shoved down our throats because we can't get over ourselves.
A car, which can transport me, take me to work, be used as a workplace (see; uber) is NOT the same as a bunch of 1's and 0's that costs nearly $1000 real life worth of an in game currency. But hey, thanks for bringing a prime example of exactly the kind of player i was talking about to the show, make yourself comfortable.

[(PSN)Earth_RickC-137]

14 minutes ago, taiiat said:

if you setup systems that will drive the Trade prices of everything down, that makes everything worth less. both the things you wanted to buy, and the things you wanted to sell. 
all you really end up doing young padawan, is making you have less Currency to work with. it won't affect the people you think you're going to stab into the heart of - people that understand economics are going to always win, and you will always lose.
the solutions to all human problems is educating everybody. it always has been, and always will be. it is also the way that we have progressed as a Species in the past 10,000+ years - we have been slowly increasing the average Education rate in our own Species.

I'd rather try to find a way to make $1 from 1 million different people than try to make $10,000 from 100,000 different people. It'll be much harder to find 100k people with $10k to spend than a million with $1.

Talking down to me, Master, isn't a way to garner mine nor other people's respect. Pretty high horse you're riding for someone who tells someone else they need to get over themselves.

Edited May 7, 2020 by (PS4)Earth_RickC-137
Words are still hard.

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

20 minutes ago, Galuf said:

3) Platinum changing hands do not generate any profit for DE. 

While factually true in a vacuum, it doesnt actually work that way. If that were the case prices would constantly inflate regardless of market manipulation (thus DE would be losing money by supporting it) by RMT organizations because the money in the game would be infinitely increasing. Platinum sinks exist in the form of cosmetics and shortcuts, while the game itself limits the amount of wealth the average flipper can feasibly obtain which keeps prices from inflating to much. 
For every platinum in the game, DE gets money. 
For every platinum spent, DE doesnt lose money and the total platinum in the game is decreased. 
For every total platinum decreased, another player will buy more platinum. 
Its a rhythm that helps keep the market - and the game experience - regulated to an extent. Unlike other games where you can play the market and hoard wealth infinitely - path of exile - you cant really do that in warframe because your currency has a reason to exist, and when youre done with that reason, you tend to just stop playing... Which also reduces the total amount of platinum in circulation. 
Of course this doesnt apply to people who make marketeering their hobby...
 

Edited May 7, 2020 by (PS4)ARC_Paroe

[CeePee]

Items are worth as much as someone is willing to pay for them. If no one pays that 30k, it's not worth the 30k and said person is just sitting on stock.

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)Viveeeh said:

 

Hmm you two have a point there. The question is: will the potential future smaller transactions pay more or less the same as today's few but outrageously big transactions? (Because someone might have the money to purchase an overpriced Riven, but if they don't have to buy so much plat to afford that, they will probably do something else with the remainder of their money. Why buy 30k plats if that's so much that you can't even spend it?)

But an auction house is so needed, whatever the prices of Rivens are. DE wants us to do trading up close and personal, but the problems they're trying to avoid with this practice can be perfectly solved in an auction house too. Maybe even I would buy some budget Rivens if I had such a comfortable way to do it as scrolling through others' Riven details on a website, or something like that.

An actual auction house, where actual auctions happen, would still have those very large purchases because people will still choose to simply buy out instead of playing the waiting game - a 50K plat riven will still be bought out for 50K plat because the people who have those resources arent the patient or thrifty kind usually.

Rivens are just a part of a bigger issue involving the warframe market and trading truth be told. If DE really wants to invest time and effort into making the player experience better, an auction house seperate from the normal trading system with actual listings (and probably a hefty credit tax set by the tenno in charge) is paramount. I shouldnt have to sell legendary cores - an especially rare resource on PS4 - for 50p a pop then spend six hours waiting for someone to sell a part or mod i need for a reasonable price (all while trying to farm them myself). 
Frustration should never be the cornerstone of your marketplace :c
 

[(PSN)Earth_RickC-137]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)ARC_Paroe said:

An actual auction house, where actual auctions happen, would still have those very large purchases because people will still choose to simply buy out instead of playing the waiting game - a 50K plat riven will still be bought out for 50K plat because the people who have those resources arent the patient or thrifty kind usually.

Rivens are just a part of a bigger issue involving the warframe market and trading truth be told. If DE really wants to invest time and effort into making the player experience better, an auction house seperate from the normal trading system with actual listings (and probably a hefty credit tax set by the tenno in charge) is paramount. I shouldnt have to sell legendary cores - an especially rare resource on PS4 - for 50p a pop then spend six hours waiting for someone to sell a part or mod i need for a reasonable price (all while trying to farm them myself). 
Frustration should never be the cornerstone of your marketplace :c
 

Seeing the feedback from this thread so far, i'd be very happy for the system to not have a cap on the upper limit of purchases, because you're right; frustration shouldn't be the cornerstone of your marketplace. And it'd be nice to list something and not have to sit in trade copypasting every 2 minutes to make the plat i need to sink into something else. I could be there for hours. Many players are.

I have edited the main post to reflect the feedback received so far.

Edited May 7, 2020 by (PS4)Earth_RickC-137

[(PSN)thowed]

I'm in trade daily on PS4 and rarely see any riven go above 3K.  Even then it's spammed for hours on multiple days meaning no one's buying at that price.  For someone talking down on everyone that disagree with them you should really know what you're talking about.  Pay me 30k plat and you can come off my ignore list.

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

8 minutes ago, CeePee said:

Items are worth as much as someone is willing to pay for them. If no one pays that 30k, it's not worth the 30k and said person is just sitting on stock.

Items are worth as much as you can convince someone its worth - A riven is worth, at most, 100USD  (probably like 2.5~2.8K plat), but if you can convince someone that your +100% cold, +100% toxic, +200% damage, +150% multishot kuva bramma riven is worth over a thousand USD then... Maybe turn to politics or faith because your silver tongue is clearly meant for greater things than warframes market place!

[(PSN)Earth_RickC-137]

29 minutes ago, taiiat said:

the prices are high because the probability is low. if the price is higher, that means the probability was lower.

Just to expand on this point; there's far too many players blowing a hole clean through that logic because they use it to push even mediocre rivens higher in price. I'd like to believe that it was true but so many people just use it as a weapon to further their gain. Just because ice cream sales and murder rates both rise in summer, doesn't mean that ice cream is creating murderers. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

[(PSN)Earth_RickC-137]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)thowed said:

I'm in trade daily on PS4 and rarely see any riven go above 3K.  Even then it's spammed for hours on multiple days meaning no one's buying at that price.  For someone talking down on everyone that disagree with them you should really know what you're talking about.  Pay me 30k plat and you can come off my ignore list.

Go check out warframe international trading hub on facebook. I'd show you just how common the issue is if i hadn't gotten yeeted out of the group for pointing out the greed.

[Ghogiel]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ToothHarp12 said:

Wouldn't it be faster to just get the riven yourself rather than farm 10k platinum 

Depends how good you are at earning plat and what the stats are on the riven you actually want. 

If there is a few dozen or so "god rolls" that exist for any particular riven out of the combination of 40000+ different rolls, you can potentially never even get one of those rolls. You could easily sink a million kuva into a single riven and not get one of those dozen rolls you wanted.

Usually peoples idea of a god roll expands out to include less than optimal rolls, like allowing some negative that's not ideal, which reduces the grind and they'll just say good enough. but anyone with 10k plat to spend should usually find something for sale that is one of the few dozen combos of "god" roll, not having to comprimise is kinda the point of buying a very expensive riven.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Ghogiel

[(PSN)Earth_RickC-137]

2 minutes ago, Ghogiel said:

Depends how good you are at earning plat and what the stats are on the riven you actually want. 

If there is a few dozen or so "god rolls" that exist for any particular riven out of the combination of 40000+ different rolls, you can potentially never even get one of those rolls. You could easily sink a million kuva into a single riven and not get one of those dozen rolls you wanted.

Usually peoples idea of a god roll expands out to include less than optimal rolls, like allowing some negative that's not ideal, which reduces the grind and they'll just say good enough. but anyone with 10k plat to spend should usually find something for sale that is one of the few dozen combos of "god" roll, not having to comprimising is kinda the point of buying a very expensive riven.

I personally had a gram riven at 255 rolls before i sold it. I'm no stranger to the farm. Even with +cc +cd -finisher i didn't ask for 30k. I took 800. Not because i'm stupid, i took 800 because i felt it was fair. I'm fully aware i could have gotten more. It's a matter of principle for me personally.

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Earth_RickC-137 said:

Just to expand on this point; there's far too many players blowing a hole clean through that logic because they use it to push even mediocre rivens higher in price. I'd like to believe that it was true but so many people just use it as a weapon to further their gain. Just because ice cream sales and murder rates both rise in summer, doesn't mean that ice cream is creating murderers. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

I sold an AKzani riven - +160 viral damage (double element), +80% multishot - along with four other rivens as a "cleaning" price in exchange for a shedu (a set of which ive seen as high as 500p still get sold) show up a few hours later being sold for 200p. 
Dont know if it sold, but flippers show the greed VERY well.

[Ghogiel]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Earth_RickC-137 said:

I personally had a gram riven at 255 rolls before i sold it. I'm no stranger to the farm. Even with +cc +cd -finisher i didn't ask for 30k. I took 800. Not because i'm stupid, i took 800 because i felt it was fair. I'm fully aware i could have gotten more. It's a matter of principle for me personally.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

You are a part of a species that loves excess, because a long time ago we were cavemen that died at 30 years old.

People will be free to do whatever they want as long as no one is physically harmed until humanity ceases to exist. 

Value is subjective. That's why a single paper stamp can be more than a house.

You just kinda have to get over it.

I dont sell expensive rivens. But 400p isn't that much. I used that money to buy Tennogen which if I'm not mistaken goes to pay the devs that make them.

Seems like a decent system: everyone got what they wanted and I helped an artist as a bonus.

 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

Another auction house thread check

next we need a 

rev is —— thread 

a “this frame needs a rework because it don’t nuke like Saryn or Mesa” 

“game is dying”

”rant” 

mans I got bingo. 

[Proscriptor]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Earth_RickC-137 said:

Not so complex. Doesn't need to be. If you are one of the players charging those astronomical prices for rivens then shame on you. Seriously. Don't hesitate to comment if you are one of those people. Please by all means show yourselves, maybe DE will see the toxicity you pump into their game. The comments only bump the thread and i welcome your publicity.

what is "toxicity"?

[George_PPS]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Earth_RickC-137 said:

The notion of this is utter garbage. Not a single item game could be worth 10+ prime access packs worth of platinum. 

I propose an riven mod only auction house. Yes it's been suggested, yes the conversation has been had, yes there's other threads already (i'll be posting my support for as many of them as i can find, post a link to yours!). Heard all this before. I'm asking again.

There's loads of people wanting something to fix this issue of plays gouging and ripping off other players through rivens. DE is even fully aware of the group that has brought this whole situation to fruition and there's even been an entire saga surrounding Semlar.com and its shutdown. DE supports things like semlar, they have said it before. So why not implement a more user friendly way to trade in this particularly volatile market. The only people not wanting this are the same people that are selling rivens for these ridiculous prices.

The problem with this suggestion is that the only people commenting are the people who want the suggestion quashed, they all jump to shoot it down. We won't get this unless the masses who want it actually speak up and SUPPORT each other in the feedback. This issue CAN be fixed.

Max listing price 5000p (Still think this is a bit high for any item but this is still only 1/6 of the average price i've been seeing for these ridiculous priced rivens.)
Minimum listing price 20p.    These points have both recieved largely negative feedback, redacting these parts of the suggestion.
Making a listing consumes a trade.
Listings last a maximum of 24 hours.
When a riven is listed that slot in your riven bench isn't cleared and available for another riven until it is sold and entirely removed from your inventory, it stays greyed out and reserved until such a time.
Maximum 5 active listings at a time. (Prevent people listing 70 rivens a day, if you have to choose then there's a good chance you'll post something actually worth buying.)

Not so complex. Doesn't need to be. If you are one of the players charging those astronomical prices for rivens then shame on you. Seriously. Don't hesitate to comment if you are one of those people. Please by all means show yourselves, maybe DE will see the toxicity you pump into their game. The comments only bump the thread and i welcome your publicity.

How about you list your best Rivens at 1/10 of their market values first? If you can’t do that, s**** on you to post this non-sense complaint.  You have no business how others price, sell, buy, and trade their Rivens. 

Disclaimer: I used to trade top tier Rivens, but. I am not in the business anymore. I do support free market, the best market.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

1 hour ago, anarchy753 said:

Absolutely, the way to fix the issue isn't just whack a bunch of caps on selling them and call it a day, it's to make them less of a slot machine so that the one "jackpot" isn't worth an obscene amount compared to any other one.

I agree. I think that's the best way. Even a slight increase in drop chances could drastically lower prices in weeks or months.

[(PSN)Earth_RickC-137]

7 minutes ago, Ghogiel said:

i LOVE that you went out of your way to make a meme just to say no one cares, you are a PARADOX my man!

[George_PPS]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Earth_RickC-137 said:

The problem is that there's little difference in the toxicity and price levelling on those platforms to in game. Hell i was removed from a trading group today on facebook (one of about 4 im in) because i disagreed on a riven being listed for 30k. Was shot down in agressive pms as well as on thread by no less than 4 people who, surpise surprise, were selling rivens at stupid high prices. It's gotta stop. Doesn't matter which medium of communication it is, this is still the warframe community i'm talking about, and it's an image being shown to the public for this game.

You are in no business trying to dictate how others price their Rivens. Period. 

Edited May 7, 2020 by George_PPS

[Ghogiel]

Just now, (PS4)Earth_RickC-137 said:

i LOVE that you went out of your way to make a meme just to say no one cares, you are a PARADOX my man!

I loved that you went out of you way to virtue signal. It was worthy of memery. No ragrets.

[(PSN)Earth_RickC-137]

3 minutes ago, Ghogiel said:

I loved that you went out of you way to virtue signal. It was worthy of memery. No ragrets.

This isn't 4chan, please go back to your people.