Glassmaker investigation

[2Peter3Nine]

So I get the 10 things to do the thing, and use them to start the thing,
but when the thing stops talking and the path opens, I jump on, it disappears,
then I fall out-of bounds as it says i'm not the thing, though didn't say I had to change,
then I get teleported to the town, tried, and my things where used, now I have to get more things.

First time falling out-of-bounds make you fail a mission.

EDIT - The reason I give no details is becouse I didn't want to "spoil" anything.
"says i'm not the thing, though didn't say I had to change,"
I thought it was saying I had to be the child for it but I don't.

It's actually not that hard. (when you know what to do)

Just remember the things you find during the investigation,
and jump to the platform with something from the scene.

A very weird, nonsensical setup, but it works, I guess.

Edited June 11, 2020 by General_Durandal

[EchoesAbove]

Yep, some sort of introduction as to what we're supposed to do would be nice.

Sure, those shards are easy-ish to get, but I'd still rather not waste them.

[Katinka]

There's three platforms to choose from.  Each will have an image or word floating over it related to one of the clues you had to find.  e.g. There was a well known character's portrait on one of the messages, you'll need to remember that and pick them out from a line up of three people we know.  You found a weapon, you'll need to choose that out of a selection of three different weapons.  You also have a time limit so I'd advise reviewing the 5 clues before going in so it's all fresh in your mind and pay attention to anything written in bold.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Katinka

[FreelanceTentacleMonster]

1 hour ago, Katinka said:

There's three platforms to choose from.  Each will have an image or word floating over it related to one of hte clues you had to find.  e.g. There was a well known character's portrait on one of the messages, you'll need to remember that and pick them out from a line up of three people we know.  You found a weapon, you'll need to choose that out of a selection of three different weapons.  You also have a time limit so I'd advise reviewing the 5 clues before going in so it's all fresh in your mind and pay attention to anything written in bold.

Yeah, that's helpful and all - the problem is that the game itself is not presenting this introduction to what is happening. The player is thrown into the journey-into-the-mind, given a sixty-second time limit in a section where they may want to stop and listen to absorb any lore and story details being dropped, and then forced to grind ten more Essences to try again if they fail their first trial-by-fire. This is one of those things where a brief tutorial or introduction would have been greatly appreciated.

Also, Warframe has a fully-functional dialogue system we could be using for this, instead of using platforms to answer multiple-choice questions. One of my clanmates compared it to Half-Life fanmaps, and I can't say that he's wrong.

[renleech]

Another thing:

During my first attempt, i jumped completely out of the platforms. This is automatic fail. Mastery tests give a chance when you do this.

About the timer, it could be better if the game gave us 12 seconds to choose the right platform ONLY after we heard all the dialogue.

Edited May 13, 2020 by renleech

[Umbra-Arcturus]

I've done the investigation twice now- and I have come to resent it.

Both times I've jumped on the correct platform, but slid off it before any information could be given.
It is utterly infuriating having to grind this cephalon cred to have it wasted- and my time wasted- because of jumping. (first time was double-jumping, which was too short and I clipped the edge, second time was bullet jumping, and I hit the platform and fell off).

My takeaway from it: make the platforms bigger/closer, or better yet, just have -guessing wrong- be the fail state. Punishing the player because of missing a platform is petty.

See revised opinion below.

----

Edited May 15, 2020 by Umbra-Arcturus

[AnatharsWrath]

i jumped onto a platform not knowing what was going on either and then it collapsed...falling into the void and losing my chance to figure anything out. afterwards i spent over 4 hours doing random missions trying to get more glassies to spawn and found zero..so i gave up for the day.

[5p33dy_01]

10 hours ago, General_Durandal said:

So I get the 10 things to do the thing, and use them to start the thing,
but when the thing stops talking and the path opens, I jump on, it disappears,
then I fall out-of bounds as it says i'm not the thing, though didn't say I had to change,
then I get teleported to the town, tried, and my things where used, now I have to get more things.

First time falling out-of-bounds make you fail a mission.

yeah... due to DE's lack of instructions/information/guidance on pretty much anything, just wait for some other bright spark out there to do it and upload a video.

i have come to the conclusion they intentionally dont give instructions/information/guidance, because it is just that little bit of effort they dont need to put in, when someone in the community will do it for them.

take railjack crewships for example...
if you havent done railjack missions, you're in for a real treat 😄 

Edited May 13, 2020 by 5p33dy_01

[KVenom]

You guys are lucky. RNGeesus hates me on this one, for I barely meet the Glass Fissures. I can't even start the whole "inner world" thing because of that. Why must DE always tie the progression with the RNG? Haven't they already had enough backlash on that topic?

[5p33dy_01]

3 minutes ago, KVenom said:

You guys are lucky. RNGeesus hates me on this one, for I barely meet the Glass Fissures. I can't even start the whole "inner world" thing because of that. Why must DE always tie the progression with the RNG? Haven't they already had enough backlash on that topic?

because RNG keeps you playing.. in other words, if you get everything in the game, you wont have much reason to keep playing (for most people).
then you will be asking for more content.

Edited May 13, 2020 by 5p33dy_01

[KVenom]

1 минуту назад, 5p33dy_01 сказал:

because RNG keeps you playing.. in other words, if you get everything in the game, you wont have much reason to keep playing (for most people).
then you will be asking for more content.

Aight, I see what I'm dealing with here. Lemme put this in the most simple way:
There are many other ways to complicate player progression(and make it more interesting) other than a complete rng.
Rng doesn't "keep people playing", that's the job of rewards and actual challenges. RNG is not a challenge, it's a chore.
A necessary evil, that shouldn't be overused.
Some things need to be a certain-ish get. Not a 1in100 chance with a condition of a full moon and a fat lady singing, like what we have here with these fissures.
Replacing challenges with just a complete RNG is a common problem with most of DE's tactics these days.

And I can see why they actually do this: it's cheaper and easier, than thinking up challenges. Just slap the old Random Encounter algorythm from the first Nightwave on those fissures and call it ready to be deployed. At least the Saturn 6 Escapees were not required for anything, and so were not the Zealots.
 

[5p33dy_01]

32 minutes ago, KVenom said:

Aight, I see what I'm dealing with here. Lemme put this in the most simple way:
There are many other ways to complicate player progression(and make it more interesting) other than a complete rng.
Rng doesn't "keep people playing", that's the job of rewards and actual challenges. RNG is not a challenge, it's a chore.
A necessary evil, that shouldn't be overused.
Some things need to be a certain-ish get. Not a 1in100 chance with a condition of a full moon and a fat lady singing, like what we have here with these fissures.
Replacing challenges with just a complete RNG is a common problem with most of DE's tactics these days.

And I can see why they actually do this: it's cheaper and easier, than thinking up challenges. Just slap the old Random Encounter algorythm from the first Nightwave on those fissures and call it ready to be deployed. At least the Saturn 6 Escapees were not required for anything, and so were not the Zealots.
 

look, you can already tell they didnt actually spend that much time putting it together.
nor do they test things from a new player perspective either, everyone that does (if anyone) test it, they already know what to expect.

this is my understanding / opinion

the idea in this particular case, is not for you to actually go looking for these fissures, its intended for you to stumble upon them in missions.
its only 10 at a time (or total, i dont know) that you need to collect, not something like 50, 100 or more.... also this is it for them, once people complete it, there is nothing more for the remainder of NW.... you should be surprised that it ISN'T 50, 100 or more..
you have MONTHS to do it, so complaining about it in less than 24 hours, is kind of being a little impatient dont you think?.

Edited May 13, 2020 by 5p33dy_01

[-AncientWarrior-]

5 hours ago, Umbra-Arcturus said:

I've done the investigation twice now- and I have come to resent it.

Both times I've jumped on the correct platform, but slid off it before any information could be given.
It is utterly infuriating having to grind this cephalon cred to have it wasted- and my time wasted- because of jumping. (first time was double-jumping, which was too short and I clipped the edge, second time was bullet jumping, and I hit the platform and fell off).

My takeaway from it: make the platforms bigger/closer, or better yet, just have -guessing wrong- be the fail state. Punishing the player because of missing a platform is petty.
----

edited to reduce some of the salt content.

Lol I did the same, slid off the first one, and miss-timed my jump second time.. 20 cephalites wasted.. resenting it from then on.. spent the next hr trying to get the Glass dude to turn up.. none in 20 mins each at Mot, Ani, Gabbi .. random is the understatement .. 

[robinsunblade]

13 hours ago, Katinka said:

There's three platforms to choose from.  Each will have an image or word floating over it related to one of hte clues you had to find.  e.g. There was a well known character's portrait on one of the messages, you'll need to remember that and pick them out from a line up of three people we know.  You found a weapon, you'll need to choose that out of a selection of three different weapons.  You also have a time limit so I'd advise reviewing the 5 clues before going in so it's all fresh in your mind and pay attention to anything written in bold.

Better yet take a picture with your phone to refer to it, it's cheating in a way, but it works, so... eh.

[Umbra-Arcturus]

Alrighty, I just completed the Cephalite trial, as I've come to call it, and have reassessed my opinion on it.

I'll chalk up half my issue with missing the platforms up to nerves. I couldn't understand how I could thread a needle in a proper mission but couldn't land on a rock platform in the cephalite zone. Got my head into the game and that cleared up -that- issue. I'll own it.

That said, it still took me two tries (thank goodness I had 20 cephalite farmed, is it true that's the MAXIMUM you can hold at any time? Holy Moses). Again, I knew all the correct answers, but having no ruleset to base my decisions on, I was afraid the platform was going to fall under me. I leapt up, and landed back on the same answer-stone as the new big platform spawned in. Unfortunately, the system understood this as a new answer, even though we hadn't gotten that far yet. Techncially I answered wrong (even though the question hadn't been presented yet), and I failed.

The overall issue I think there is in this game mode is the lack of clarity in what you're supposed to do. There are too many variables that are left vacant, and in that vacuum lurks some unnecessary frustration. This mode has been compared to the MR Trials, I think that's accurate. More forgiving in its punitive measures (since your access is determined by credit farming rather than a 24hr cooldown), but at least the MR trials provide instructions as to what you're supposed to be doing. I think that's all this cephalite mode really needs is a quick preface, since elements the design presumes are self-evident, aren't for all players.

Also, change the fail-state trigger from falling down the zone to answering incorrectly. I'm sure it's much extra work, but it's also fairer. Given you've already got a timer, resetting the player on the main platform after derping into the forbidden zone is sufficiently punitive, rather than swatting 'em out of the game-state. That still gives them a chance to try and stick the landing on the correct platform, so long as they didn't land on an incorrect one.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Umbra-Arcturus
Tidying up the wall o' text.

[Woodencrow]

I have tried 4 times to do this, and EVERY time, I fail to land on the platform. This is beyond frustrating. Automatic fail for missing a platform? I cannot even begin to tell you how enraging it is to touch the platform only to glitch off it. You couldn't have a walkway form? You had to have platforms that may or may not let you land on them or even have you slide off the damn things?

 

It doesn't help that I have zero sense of space thanks to that background. I have no idea how big the platform is or where it sits relative to the starting area. This was implemented EXTREMELY poorly, and I highly doubt I will have the stomach to spend HOURS farming those consumables only to waste them on broken platforming. I don't even care about the lore anymore. I don't care about the event. Glassmaker can die in a fire. I am honestly on the verge of rage-quitting this entire damn game if this is what I have to subject myself to in order to get some kind of "Story". I can't even use warframe abilities to help me get to the next platform. WHAT THE HELL DIGITAL EXTREMES? 

 

Tldr: FIX THIS, IT SUCKS.

[Inspector_Jadet]

Its not even the questions, my movement in my warframe feels unusual and it causes me to constantly miss the jump Forcing me to try again when I KNOW what to do

I'm a lore guy, I find it fun, and when I heard there was a quiz I went through the diorama piecing together every bit of info, I legit RE-ENACTED how it seems the victim met his demise. And my reward for engrossing myself in this mystery setup, AND grinding out the random cephalites that aren't even guaranteed to drop a fragment when they show up is to do it all over again.

The farming I did is made quite literally worthless.

DE you were so SO close. To making me love this nightwave. But you fell flat on your face at the finish line. 

There are two solutions I have: First, as someone else stated, don't make failure based on falling. The time limit is enough pressure. The rest of the game ingrains in your head the idea of "don't worry if you fall, we have your back." This one exception is only counter-intuitive.

Second, if you do fail, make it so the price for entering is halved. So if you fail your first attempt, you know have to only pay 5 cephalite resonance. then 2, then you can retry for free. This will make it so that the work you put into farming not feel wasted.

I am 85% certain that these changes alone will make me, and everyone else on this thread who are doomed to being ignored, much happier.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Inspector_Jadet

[5p33dy_01]

i have completed it... i failed twice since one of the answers didnt appear twice (where it was supposed to be, it was blank).. but i dont really mind, its to be expected..

arbitration seems to have a high spawn rate, 2 fissures appeared by 30min and that was it.. i stayed in mission for 65min
next arbitration mission it spawned before the mission started and then nothing after 23min staying in mission.

i will leave this here

[Ryme]

I feel like the writer isn't working together with the actual level designer, because they can't seem to figure out what it is they want to do and test the players on; movement mechanics or plot details. As other have pointed out, the timer runs off while the PLOT DIALOGUE is playing, so stopping to focus on the dialogue and story will cause you to run out of time and fail. Alternatively, you can rush through the jumping puzzle and have no idea what's going on with the Nightwave story.

• Please separate the plot exposition from the timed puzzle elements.
• Also remember to include a skip function for people who do just want to skip the story and rush the puzzle, because those kinds of people exist.

I also noticed that the movement and jumping distance seem different within the test. I was able to adjust to it quickly, but have heard that it threw some people off and caused them to fail the test. Causing people to fail a movement test because you suddenly changed the movement mechanics feels kind of cheap.

 

[TARINunit9]

On 2020-05-12 at 2:43 PM, General_Durandal said:

First time falling out-of-bounds make you fail a mission.

Technically not true. During mastery tests, falling out of bounds kills you

[2Peter3Nine]

46 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Technically not true. During mastery tests, falling out of bounds kills you

It does not, I've fallen out-of-bounds in many Mastery tests.

[Qmoney]

This thing is so stupid... I've put in several hours of missions to get enough resonance, and it didn't give me any indication that there was a puzzle or something I had to do... jumped on a platform, fell, resonance gone, and it didn't tell me why.  The game just assumes that people are googling everything that isn't intuitive at all.

... garbage nightwave event so far.  The time spent on this 'story' would be a lot better spent on game development because the plot line isn't engaging and it's just another grind.

Is there even any reward for doing these tedious cutscenes?

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, General_Durandal said:

It does not, I've fallen out-of-bounds in many Mastery tests.

It might depend on the mastery test, because in the Rathuum one I've instantly died for falling out of bounds

Edited May 15, 2020 by TARINunit9

[5p33dy_01]

10 hours ago, Ryme said:

because you suddenly changed the movement mechanics feels kind of cheap.

its operator dream world movement but with a frame.
it looks like they used the excalibur quest where you find the parts of the sword or something, they just throw a twist on it.
 

6 hours ago, General_Durandal said:

It does not, I've fallen out-of-bounds in many Mastery tests.

 

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

It might depend on the mastery test, because in the Rathuum one I've instantly died for falling out of bounds

TECHNICALLY both are true.
most tests you you can fall off the edge and not lose anything, but there are some that you do... you may not even know which ones, unless you have falled off.

saying "Technically not true. During mastery tests, falling out of bounds kills you", without explanation looks like you're just looking for an arguement, or you are being ignorant, because you only then try and cover up by saying "It might depend on the mastery test".

OP said "First time falling out-of-bounds make you fail a mission."
which is TECHNICALLY true if you compare it to MR tests. since the MR tests dont fail you, you lose a life.. losing a life out of 3 and failing from 1 instance are 2 different things.... 

please try and think about what you are saying, when trying to tell someone they are wrong.

anyway... everyone's mistake is trying to compare it with MR tests.
you might as well start arguing that you cant use weapons, abilities or what ever else you feel like arguing about, even though you do not need to use those things, it doesnt mean they need to block them, or why isnt there enemies to kill, or why isnt there an object to defend etc...

my point is, it doesnt grant you MR progression, i gives you NWR progression... they are 2 different systems.
 

7 hours ago, Qmoney said:

Is there even any reward for doing these tedious cutscenes?

i dont know if it will be increased on the other acts or if you will get a final reward.
but as of now, the only reward is 7000 NW points. its the same as 1 weekly elite mission.

you only need to do it if you are trying to max out your NW points ASAP.

[TARINunit9]

13 minutes ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

saying "Technically not true. During mastery tests, falling out of bounds kills you", without explanation looks like you're just looking for an arguement, or you are being ignorant, because you only then try and cover up by saying "It might depend on the mastery test".

Yeah I'll accept partial fault for that one. I knew for a fact there were multiple tests where falling off either killed you or counted as a failure state, but I had neither the ability (I was on my lunch break at work) nor the inclination to test all 28 of them to see if it was universally true

15 minutes ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

anyway... everyone's mistake is trying to compare it with MR tests.

I kinda disagree, honestly. A virtual world meant to test how much you've been paying attention, but that isn't supposed to last more than 2 minutes or so? Sounds to me like it could describe a mastery test or the killer's mind palace equally