Nightwave - Please remove K-Drive race challenge

[shootaman777]

^ Title

In my opinion, K-Drives are neither fun, nor rewarding to use.  Please rework them to make them both fun and rewarding to use, before making Nightwave challenges for them. 

Allowing us to create our own races, for instance, would make K-Drives far more interesting.  This could be done by using consumables in the Vallis to mark spots as startpoints, checkpoints, and endpoints, or could be done in a sandbox mode such as the Vallis Captura scene.  This would allow people who want to avoid K-Drives altogether to do the bare minimum by making the shortest possible 'race', and the people who enjoy K-Drives could go nuts with K-Drive races and have more fun with it. 

As it is, K-Drives are not a refined enough game mechanic to warrant being attached to any other part of the game.  There are a million and one ideas out there to rework K-Drives entirely, such as by allowing players to do drive-bys on K-Drives, so I'm not going to go on a K-Drive rework idea spree. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by shootaman777
Added 'in my opinion' to mark a clear opinion as an opinion

[Hyro1]

its literally the easiest thing to do, why ya'll gotta ruin things for everyone, just advocate for K-drives being better instead, might get more people on your side

[shootaman777]

5 minutes ago, Hyro1 said:

its literally the easiest thing to do, why ya'll gotta ruin things for everyone, just advocate for K-drives being better instead, might get more people on your side

 

24 minutes ago, shootaman777 said:

K-Drives are neither fun, nor rewarding to use.  Please rework them to make them both fun and rewarding to use, before making Nightwave challenges for them. 

Allowing us to create our own races, for instance, would make K-Drives far more interesting.  This could be done by using consumables in the Vallis to mark spots as startpoints, checkpoints, and endpoints, or could be done in a sandbox mode such as the Vallis Captura scene.  This would allow people who want to avoid K-Drives altogether to do the bare minimum by making the shortest possible 'race', and the people who enjoy K-Drives could go nuts with K-Drive races and have more fun with it. 

As it is, K-Drives are not a refined enough game mechanic to warrant being attached to any other part of the game.  There are a million and one ideas out there to rework K-Drives entirely, such as by allowing players to do drive-bys on K-Drives, so I'm not going to go on a K-Drive rework idea spree. 

... Did you read nothing but the title? 

Edited May 14, 2020 by shootaman777
Highlighting via Bolding and Italiscising

[Traumtulpe]

Yes, K-Drives aren't particularly fun, fast, or useful.

But they aren't atrocious to the point that refusing to complete 3 races makes any sense whatsoever.

[Hyro1]

Just now, shootaman777 said:

 

... Did you read nothing but the title? 

I did, which is why i added the part of just requesting changes for K-drives it self, without unnecessarily removing the quest

[TheGrimCorsair]

The K-Drive challenge is too easy and should require more races and you shouldn't have them count if you miss any of the gates on them.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

24 minutes ago, shootaman777 said:

K-Drives are neither fun, nor rewarding to use.  Please rework them to make them both fun and rewarding to use, before making Nightwave challenges for them. 

Subjective.

[shootaman777]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Subjective.

Fair enough.  Fixed the OP for ya. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by shootaman777
clarifying 'it', 'it' -> 'the OP'

[shootaman777]

1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

Yes, K-Drives aren't particularly fun, fast, or useful.

But they aren't atrocious to the point that refusing to complete 3 races makes any sense whatsoever.

 

1 hour ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

The K-Drive challenge is too easy and should require more races and you shouldn't have them count if you miss any of the gates on them.

Easy or not, it's an insult to be told 'go use a K-Drive' by DE, who has not done one single thing to improve K-Drives' experience since their launch, even after widespread K-Drive ridicule.  Speed tweak?  Only at the cost of your Operator Arcane (Magus Elevate) slot, or use K-Drive specific mods that barely give you any increase in performance.  Utility to make it worth using in missions?  Not even the damage-oriented K-Drive mods can salvage it.  The only major change that K-Drives have seen since its launch is a major nerf to the most efficient rep/affinity grinding method. 

After grinding out the entirety of the Ventkids faction, each K-Drive for mastery, and all K-Drive mods while the getting was good... to have the result of that grind be so disappointing was a slap in the face, similar to what Railjack was on release.  The difference between Railjack and K-Drives, however, is that there were no Railjack Nightwave missions until DE reworked Railjack to make it better across the board.  Whereas, the lackluster K-Drives have had Nightwave missions even while they are almost universally disliked and have been abandoned since release for almost as long as Hydroid was. 

Didn't say anything last season as I thought it was just an oversight on DE's part, given that they've neglected Nightwave for so long (I'm looking at you, Intermission II that lasted about half a year).  But, how could they add Railjack missions to Nightwave since the Railjack experience was improved to be worth trying out, but at the same time not remove the K-Drive missions from Nightwave since the K-Drives have not been improved to be worth trying out (and remain in their original, universally-poorly-received state)? 

I'm definitely behind the idea to buff/rework/improve K-Drives, but until they're improved, I don't want to have to see or think about them.  Every time seeing or thinking about them in their current state is a disappointment, because they could be great with a bit of polish, but instead are rotting away like Nyx.  As such, I am asking to have K-Drive missions removed from Nightwave until then. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by shootaman777
grammar fixes

[Ceryk]

58 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Yes, K-Drives aren't particularly fun, fast, or useful.

But they aren't atrocious to the point that refusing to complete 3 races makes any sense whatsoever.

They have nothing to do with actually playing the game, so refusing to do them makes plenty of sense. At least with things like "Kill Enemies" or "Do this mission type", it's about actually playing the game. If I didn't absolutely loathe Nightwave and wanted the whole system gone, I'd want all the Minigame stuff removed from it. Nightwave is bad enough about forcing you to do thing you don't want to do, it shouldn't force you to do things that have little to no worthwhile reward like the Minigames that a lot of people will never bother with again once the novelty of being shiny and new wears off.

[NekoNaz]

19 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

In my opinion, K-Drives are neither fun, nor rewarding to use.

Different aspects of the game appeal to different players. I find racing fun. I find flying RJ that is literally space sim (not shooter) fun. I am reaping rewards from racing, but I wont tell you about my business here ^_^.

19 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

Allowing us to create our own races, for instance, would make K-Drives far more interesting.

That could happen in next life.

 

18 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

But they aren't atrocious to the point that refusing to complete 3 races makes any sense whatsoever.

I am gladly trade "Mine 6 rare minerals" (and few other challenges) for something atrocious as "find and complete all races". Maybe it's just me.

Edited May 14, 2020 by NekoNaz

[NekoNaz]

19 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

K-Drives are neither fun, nor rewarding to use

Long time ago I was like "Oh cool, I can travel faster this way". Some time later I was like "Oh this is another MR fodder, well, time to grind rails". Long story short right now I am K-drive fan, but sadly nothing new happening with it.

As for rewards, that definition is really vague for different players. But K-drives can be source for both "monetary"  and experience based rewards.

Oh, and you are probably just fish-looking null unit.

Edited May 14, 2020 by NekoNaz

[GreyDeath789]

Since I am missing three (I think) races yet...I want the Nightwave challenge to ONLY load the races I am missing...so I can finish that challenge in addition to Nightwave challenge. Remember everything is about what I want...need...want...ne..oh whatever...

Give me MY last THREE races...or I will make a post asking to remove K drive races completely!

*stomps foot*

(This is not meant to be a reflection of the OP's point just me wanting to prove I need to keep my day job and not to become a comedian)

[shootaman777]

On 2020-05-14 at 5:34 PM, NekoNaz said:

Different aspects of the game appeal to different players. I find racing fun. I find flying RJ that is literally space sim (not shooter) fun. I am reaping rewards from racing, but I wont tell you about my business here ^_^.

The point of Nightwave is to give players who have already done everything a reason (specifically, a reward) to go back to the content that they have already done, or to give new players an ever-evolving checklist of things to try out. 

What part of being told to go back to abandoned content (K-Drives) could possibly be construed in a positive manner?  And who wants to go back to content they know is abandoned, and is the same as it has always been?  I'll wager that the non-new players who would happily go back to K-Drives for the Nightwave challenge, are the same ones who would use K-Drives even if Nightwave didn't exist.  It's fine to let people continue to use abandoned content at their own discretion, but to lock another piece of content's rewards behind it to entice players to go to it is nothing short of cruel. 

The difference between Railjack and K-Drives, as far as Nightwave is considered, is that Railjack is not abandoned content, and due to its continuous updates may eventually end up in an enjoyable state for many.  K-Drives are abandoned content that was panned by most players, on-release.  It makes sense to entice players to try out Railjack once more, as significant changes to it may make it more enjoyable for them.  In the case of K-Drives, it's the same old S#&$show. 

On 2020-05-14 at 5:34 PM, NekoNaz said:

I am gladly trade "Mine 6 rare minerals" (and few other challenges) for something atrocious as "find and complete all races". Maybe it's just me.

I can't think of a reason to trade a quick and easy task (Mining a couple of nodes) that has worthwhile rewards that help with the game at large, for something as time-consuming and unrewarding as hunting down an arbitrary grind-island (K-Drive Races) with no worthwhile rewards for any relevant part of the game at large. 

Personally, I would prefer to see non-static Nightwave missions.  For example, instead of the Nightwave mission to complete a capture mission in under 90 seconds, I would prefer to see a Nightwave mission to complete a capture mission as fast as possible, with rewards increasing based on how short the duration of your record run was.  Going for a sub-30 second capture mission on Ukko, Void, for instance, will net Meso/Neo relics at a rate of 1 per minute (including loading times), providing worthwhile in-game rewards that tie into the rest of the game, while also allowing the player to progress in Nightwave.  But, maybe it's also just me. 

[5p33dy_01]

On 2020-05-16 at 6:25 AM, shootaman777 said:

but to lock another piece of content's rewards behind it to entice players to go to it is nothing short of cruel. 

this it wrong, there is no lock on the content.
you dont even need to do those races.. you are only required to do roughly 60% (i think) of the NW challenges to get to max rank, then anything after that is just gravy.
with the introduction of Glassmaker, you get NW standing from killing enemies, bringing that 60% even lower (depending on RNG and how many missions you play).
the only reason to do literally every NW challenge, is to squeeze every last bit of NW points you can get, in which case, you might aswell be playing 24/7 and farming NW points from enemies too.

as for the enticement, its what developers do, give you a reason to do something. but ultimately it is your choice to do it, if you dont like the challenge, dont do it, or if you feel the reward is not enough for the challenge, dont do it.

On 2020-05-16 at 6:25 AM, shootaman777 said:

Personally, I would prefer to see non-static Nightwave missions.  For example, instead of the Nightwave mission to complete a capture mission in under 90 seconds, I would prefer to see a Nightwave mission to complete a capture mission as fast as possible, with rewards increasing based on how short the duration of your record run was.  Going for a sub-30 second capture mission on Ukko, Void, for instance, will net Meso/Neo relics at a rate of 1 per minute (including loading times), providing worthwhile in-game rewards that tie into the rest of the game, while also allowing the player to progress in Nightwave.  But, maybe it's also just me. 

not only is this trying to dip into scaling rewards, but this is too unfair to some of the community.
only people with good PC's will get the best rewards, since you included loading times.

you are basically forcing people to buy new hardware to get the most rewards, i am yet to see this in any game.
not to mention the fact that not everyone can do things fast.

its like me requesting they make eidolons or profit-taker a 5min challenge (including loading times and travel).
sooner or later something will have to give, either people will request weapon damage increases to make those times or an increase in the challenge times.

Edited May 17, 2020 by 5p33dy_01

[NekoNaz]

 

On 2020-05-16 at 8:25 AM, shootaman777 said:

What part of being told to go back to abandoned content (K-Drives) could possibly be construed in a positive manner?

There is no abandoned content in game at all. K-drives don't really connect to any other content. Old content is constantly evolving into something new. Many could say that whole archwing stuff was pointless and abandoned content before RJ. Now AW is connected to something bigger.

If you prefer to abandon some content that is your choice.

On 2020-05-16 at 8:25 AM, shootaman777 said:

I can't think of a reason to trade a quick and easy task (Mining a couple of nodes) that has worthwhile rewards that help with the game at large, for something as time-consuming and unrewarding as hunting down an arbitrary grind-island (K-Drive Races) with no worthwhile rewards for any relevant part of the game at large. 

Quick and easy? As quick and easy as roll dice and get 6 for 6 times. Easy to throw a dice, but nothing else. I bet you don't remember when you did that challenge last time. After RJ chances for rare minerals got even worse. At the end of the day it is a matter of preferences, but don't trash content because you don't like it.

 

DE wants to raise interest in K-drives for some reason. And I think they learned some lessons about quality.

Edited May 17, 2020 by NekoNaz

[NekoNaz]

I finally remembered B-I-G reason for k-drives. You need rep for vent kids to buy cosmetics. It's all about fashion. Remove fashion and everything is abandoned content.

And races are good way to earn rep. Give me real reason why they should not be part of NW.

Edited May 17, 2020 by NekoNaz

[5p33dy_01]

46 minutes ago, NekoNaz said:

I finally remembered B-I-G reason for k-drives. You need rep for vent kids to buy cosmetics. It's all about fashion. Remove fashion and everything is abandoned content.

And races are good way to earn rep. Give me real reason why they should not be part of NW.

actually... starting out as a new player, its more about the game rather than fashion... remove fashion and you still have something to do, remove content, it will be abandoned game.
the only reason people spend so much time playing with fashion, is because they have done everything or almost everything else in the game.
 

On 2020-05-14 at 3:35 AM, shootaman777 said:

In my opinion, K-Drives are neither fun, nor rewarding to use.  Please rework them to make them both fun and rewarding to use, before making Nightwave challenges for them. 

in my opinion, you dont think or care about new/other players.

there is nothing more they can really do, without remaking the entire idea.
make them fly, oh wait, they have archwing
make them go faster, oh wait, archwing has blink
give them utility and damage mods, oh wait, they have already done that.

remaking the entire idea,
they can make them into CAR's, TRUCK's, helicopters, or a floating shark....
or we have a somewhat "Need For Speed" integration, wouldnt that be fun.

or, or... maybe... make them time machines... where you could jump into it and it resets your account so you can start again to the time you enjoyed it, just make sure not to get the archwing, it will take away your fun.... or when your account gets reset, it disables archwing outside of railjack... now that would be the best.

Edited May 17, 2020 by 5p33dy_01

[livegeekdie]

Has it occurred to anybody that the reason they've started including K-drive races as a Nightwave task is because so many people *@##$ about tasks they have to remove them, but then they need something to replace them with?

Imo stop complaining about simple, relatively fast tasks.  At least it's not more fishing.  (To clarify: I don't mind having fishing tasks but I don't want Nightwave to be so dumbed down that's all there is)

Also, non-static Nightwave tasks kind of defeat the purpose.  The tasks are a means to get the standing to get rewards, you seem to want the rewards from the missions instead.  In addition, apart from the elite missions they're meant to be simple so low MR players can do them; if you recall there is a frame, some weapons & things like Nitain extract that they need to keep advancing.

[shootaman777]

6 hours ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

this it wrong, there is no lock on the content.
you dont even need to do those races.. you are only required to do roughly 60% (i think) of the NW challenges to get to max rank, then anything after that is just gravy.
with the introduction of Glassmaker, you get NW standing from killing enemies, bringing that 60% even lower (depending on RNG and how many missions you play).
the only reason to do literally every NW challenge, is to squeeze every last bit of NW points you can get, in which case, you might aswell be playing 24/7 and farming NW points from enemies too.

as for the enticement, its what developers do, give you a reason to do something. but ultimately it is your choice to do it, if you dont like the challenge, dont do it, or if you feel the reward is not enough for the challenge, dont do it.

not only is this trying to dip into scaling rewards, but this is too unfair to some of the community.
only people with good PC's will get the best rewards, since you included loading times.

you are basically forcing people to buy new hardware to get the most rewards, i am yet to see this in any game.
not to mention the fact that not everyone can do things fast.

its like me requesting they make eidolons or profit-taker a 5min challenge (including loading times and travel).
sooner or later something will have to give, either people will request weapon damage increases to make those times or an increase in the challenge times.

I'm not talking about enticement in general, I'm talking about trying to entice people to use K-Drives, a piece of content so far removed from the normal game and abandoned in development that I could conceivably confuse it with Lunaro, Conclave, Nyx, or Iron Wake. 

This is correct (in my case, and I assume the case of at least several others), there is a lock on the content.  In the coming weeks, things are going to start opening around here, at which time things will get very busy and there will not be terribly much time for Warframe.  And, even if a block of time were to open at that point in time where I both could grind Nightwave and want to grind Nightwave, the last thing I want to see is that, when I finish that week's Nightwave weeklies and am shown the catch-up weeklies, I will not be allowed to access more Nightwave weeklies until I allow myself to be forced into doing the K-Drive weekly, since the catch up mechanic only shows you 3 past weeklies at a time.  I ran into this problem during Nightwave season 2, getting stuck with boring Eidolon, unrewarding endless, and obnoxious K-Drive challenges, barring me from progressing in Nightwave until I finished them.  That was not a fun time, where Warframe felt more like a chore/job than a game. 

Also, the Glassmaker enemies showing up is RNG-dependent and rewards minimal Nightwave rep.  I play the minimum amount of all but the shortest missions necessary to get the job done, meaning I will rarely come across these enemies (I have only ran across them once, at Hydron, Sedna).  If they're anything like the Saturn 6 prisoner squads, the spawn chance and rep gain will continue to be nominal at best. 

 

I don't think you understood what I meant by 'including load times'.  By 'including load times', I mean the run is about 30-45 seconds, and with good load times (in and out, combined) of 15-30 seconds, you will be averaging 1 minute per mission reward.  I was only referring to the relic reward rate at that point - I, in no way, meant to suggest that the Nightwave challenge's reward should scale based on your loading times.  That would be asinine and ridiculous. 

On top of that, there is a finite limit to how fast one may complete a mission, so even though the reward would technically scale in this instance, there would be a hard cap that would make 'endless' scaling impossible.  This makes the scaling very easy to adjust. 

Also, weapon damage increases would do nothing to speed up a capture mission.  If you're not insta-gibbing a capture target, you either didn't bring a good weapon or don't have one, which is a problem that can easily remedied either with a short grind or a quick decision. 

[shootaman777]

3 hours ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

in my opinion, you dont think or care about new/other players.

there is nothing more they can really do, without remaking the entire idea.
make them fly, oh wait, they have archwing
make them go faster, oh wait, archwing has blink
give them utility and damage mods, oh wait, they have already done that.

remaking the entire idea,
they can make them into CAR's, TRUCK's, helicopters, or a floating shark....
or we have a somewhat "Need For Speed" integration, wouldnt that be fun.

or, or... maybe... make them time machines... where you could jump into it and it resets your account so you can start again to the time you enjoyed it, just make sure not to get the archwing, it will take away your fun.... or when your account gets reset, it disables archwing outside of railjack... now that would be the best.

Here's the OP:

On 2020-05-13 at 10:35 PM, shootaman777 said:

^ Title

In my opinion, K-Drives are neither fun, nor rewarding to use.  Please rework them to make them both fun and rewarding to use, before making Nightwave challenges for them. 

Allowing us to create our own races, for instance, would make K-Drives far more interesting.  This could be done by using consumables in the Vallis to mark spots as startpoints, checkpoints, and endpoints, or could be done in a sandbox mode such as the Vallis Captura scene.  This would allow people who want to avoid K-Drives altogether to do the bare minimum by making the shortest possible 'race', and the people who enjoy K-Drives could go nuts with K-Drive races and have more fun with it. 

As it is, K-Drives are not a refined enough game mechanic to warrant being attached to any other part of the game.  There are a million and one ideas out there to rework K-Drives entirely, such as by allowing players to do drive-bys on K-Drives, so I'm not going to go on a K-Drive rework idea spree. 

Allowing course customisation out of premade content (specifically, the existing open world maps) would neither be difficult nor time-consuming to implement. 

Allowing the using of primary/secondary weapons while on K-Drives would, similarly, neither be difficult nor time-consuming to implement. 

There's no need to reinvent the wheel (as you suggest that DE should do), since with just a tiny bit of thought/creativity, a niche can be made for K-Drives in Warframe. 

 

Additionally, what part of my reply makes you think that I don't think about and/or care about newer players? 
P.S. - For the record, you're wrong, since I have multiple accounts that I use solely for testing the new player experience whenever it gets updated, so that I take the new player experience into account for things like this. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by shootaman777
Added the final bit.

[shootaman777]

5 hours ago, NekoNaz said:

There is no abandoned content in game at all. K-drives don't really connect to any other content. Old content is constantly evolving into something new. Many could say that whole archwing stuff was pointless and abandoned content before RJ. Now AW is connected to something bigger.

If you prefer to abandon some content that is your choice.

Tell me more about how Nyx, Operator Focus Trees, Lunaro, Hijack missions, and Iron Wake (a few examples off the top of my head) are not 'abandoned' content.  Go ahead, I'll wait. 

5 hours ago, NekoNaz said:

Quick and easy? As quick and easy as roll dice and get 6 for 6 times. Easy to throw a dice, but nothing else. I bet you don't remember when you did that challenge last time. After RJ chances for rare minerals got even worse. At the end of the day it is a matter of preferences, but don't trash content because you don't like it.

 

DE wants to raise interest in K-drives for some reason. And I think they learned some lessons about quality.

I'm not 'trash{ing} content because I didn't like it'.  I'm saying to remove it from the Nightwave rotations until it is reworked to be better than it was, when almost the entire community panned it.  I even went so far as to provide possible methods of improving it. 

I don't remember the exact date and time that I did that 'challenge', just like if I asked you to tell me at what time, to the nearest minute, you used the bathroom the second time for that day, on March 12-18th of 2016.  It's unimportant information that you will not remember and did not write down, and any answer you would provide to my asking would obviously be falsified, backdated information. 

How I did it?  If on the Vallis, it was by mining all the nodes in the Deck 12 cave, entering and mining Deck 12, going back out to the cave, and repeating the process, since the mining nodes refresh.  If on the Plains, I have a mining route that I use that hits almost 50 mining nodes in about 5 minutes.  Ezpz. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by shootaman777
Added in responses to the parts of the post I had forgotten to address in my original reply

[NekoNaz]

7 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

Tell me more about how Nyx, Operator Focus Trees, Lunaro, Hijack missions, and Iron Wake (a few examples off the top of my head) are not 'abandoned' content.  Go ahead, I'll wait. 

You abandoned that content. But it's working as intended at some moments of the game. K-drives serve their purpose at some moment of the game and at that moment you can't choose between AW and k-drive.

 

7 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

I'm not 'trash{ing} content because I didn't like it'.  I'm saying to remove it from the Nightwave rotations until it is reworked to be better than it was, when almost the entire community panned it.  I even went so far as to provide possible methods of improving it. 

Okay, you just saying races are not prepared for NW. Because they are not fun and don't have any purpose. Well, I can say that you are not prepared for races! I find many aspects of races fun, they are competitive (but that moment is bugged), they are some way to earn plat (if you look for more ways). That whole challenge is 3 minutes if you are know how to race (and where). But that goes for every aspect of the game.

Races are easy for new players and advanced players can polish their builds and skills and go for a challenge that is far beyond just finishing race. Existing races don't need any more stuff you suggesting.

And you really can skip whole challenge and still get all NW rewards.

Edited May 18, 2020 by NekoNaz
my grammar is so bad

[Xarteros]

Look, it's not fun for everyone, but neither are half the challenges that we need to do for Nightwave. Does everyone want to go fishing? Does everyone want to go Pokemon hunting? Does everyone want to be forced to do emotes or to throw away spectres? Does everyone enjoy the Exploiter/Profit Taker/Tridolon fights? Does everyone enjoy Railjack farming, grinding out Eximus kills, or having to change their mods for elemental kills?

No. I get that you've proposed 'fixes' to make K-Drive 'fun', but it doesn't matter what you propose. You are never going to make something so fun that everyone will enjoy it. There are ALWAYS going to be challenges or content that forces players to do things they don't want to do in order to get the rewards. Nightwave at least gives you twice as many challenges as you need, so you can comfortably skip a whole heap of them and still max everything out in time. Not to mention the growing pattern for bringing old content back in later intermissions/events, and allowing more stuff to be tradeable.

I'd much rather see the entire post devoted solely to the multitude of ways that K-Drive in its entirety (not just races) can be improved. Or hey, even just a post asking for it to be deleted, because it's yet another wad of empty padding to disguise the lack of fleshed out content. As far as Nightwave goes, it's one of the least obtrusive challenges on the list.