(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 minute ago, T-Shark69 said: There is a second of shield gate after the shields go down. They god do 69M dps and it wouldnt matter, that 1 second is constant. It will still be enough to press 2. Again if they're ripping through a million EHP fast enough for you to not do anything to mitigate it, you can count on your reaction time being way out of that single second. 5 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said: That's not how it works. You keep an eye on your Iron Skin first things first so you dont get caught red handed with it going out. Once its too low for comfort but high enough to still tank for some time, you do the Anomaly and 1&2 combo to refresh it. Even Toxin procs wont down you due to the high amount of Armor you have thanks to Ironclad Charge. Yeah you need to make up your mind about how fast they're shredding your Million points of Iron Skin. Sounds like it's taken quite some time to get to that point in this latest scenario. Meaning that you had to be standing around collecting damage for long enough that you could have just pressed your four and wiped the area several times over by now. 9 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said: What point is that? Nowhere in your rebbutal 5k (generous) extra iron skin made sense. It doesnt make sense anywhere sensible. Id have to spam stomp 200 times in succession to get back the iron skin I would by just recasting with 1 and 2. How's that better?! Because again, one scenario left you open to attacks in which time you probably managed to get stun locked, or grappling hook locked and in the other you're not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Shark69 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: Yeah you need to make up your mind about how fast they're shredding your Million points of Iron Skin. I didnt really think at all man because i just made up some hypothetical scenario in which your Reinforcing Stomp with its 5K extra iron skin would be beneficial to me with my 1M iron skin. And it's still not clear to me how would that happen. So focus on that please. 6 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: one scenario left you open to attacks in which time you probably managed to get stun locked, or grappling hook locked and in the other you're not. Funny enough Ive had that happen recently when I set my current record shy of 2M. But it was an aftershock and the enemies were all CC'd due to the Charge so nothing happened to me. And that's the only time ive found myself in a high level mission helpless. In my 1K+ hours of playtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 36 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said: What point is that? Nowhere in your rebbutal 5k (generous) extra iron skin made sense. It doesnt make sense anywhere sensible. Id have to spam stomp 200 times in succession to get back the iron skin I would by just recasting with 1 and 2. How's that better?! That's not entirely the case though... You'd need a group of mobs in range to cast your 1 into first to be able to get that decent Iron Skin mitigation to begin with....That's not always the easiest condition to meet since most mobs are ranged and teams routinely melt mobs. Of course, playstyle and situation dictates slotting needs... So a mod like this will have differing value and results based on that. RS and PR are, imo, fairly group friendly mods but both may reduce dps orientation in builds. Piercing Roar, for example, is pretty good and would be even better if it applied 3-5 stacks of puncture imo. 10 stacks would be insane and I'd expect it to worry about what the incoming nerf to it would look like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Shark69 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: You'd need a group of mobs in range to cast your 1 10 stacks would be insane and I'd expect it to worry about what the incoming nerf to it would look like. Alright ignoring all the ways we can group enemies with... Charging through a single enemy will still give me 10 times the amount of Skin that RS would. So still how is it good?! 10 stacks sure sound a lot but have you compared it to the DR Trinity, Nezha, Gara etc give to the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiltskillet Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 I don't like playing him, but I'm usually happy to see a Rhino in squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ALTBOULI Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 I play him from time to time, pretty versatile frame. I personally tend to focus on the damage buff so that myself and teammates can kill things faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 14 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said: Alright ignoring all the ways we can group enemies with... Charging through a single enemy will still give me 10 times the amount of Skin that RS would. So still how is it good?! How? In instances where you don't have a nearby enemy to charge through and want to keep some IS up until you do.. Is that valuable solo? Nope. Is it valuable in groups where nukers are melting mobs two rooms away? ...It sure can be. As I noted above though, playstyle dictates slotting needs. The fact that you, personally, see no value in it doesn't mean it has no value for other players. 18 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said: 10 stacks sure sound a lot but have you compared it to the DR Trinity, Nezha, Gara etc give to the team? Well,That's because 10 stacks is alot... 10 stacks would cap the de-buff —While also offering a stagger and a pretty noticeable damage boost to nearby teammates. There are a number of frames with awesome buffs...I'm not sure what that has to do with this augment though. Augments are supposed to be QoL improvements over the original ability and the value of those improvements vary The debuff we are talking about is ancillary given that it's a side effect of the damage type tacked on to the augment in question. It's a nifty addition for an ability that you are sure to be using. 1 stack is "meh" imo. 10 is too much balanced against the damage buff the skill can provide and how often it gets used. Now, you have every right to your opinions of course. Here's mine... If Piercing Roar was ever made to apply 10 stacks of the puncture status it would get nerfed...Either the stacks, the effect, Iron Skin mitigation values, or the Roar damage buff would get nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Shark69 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: How? In instances where you don't have a nearby enemy to charge through and want to keep some IS up until you do.. You still need enemies around you for RS to do anything. At that low enemy density your looking at triple digit iron skin return which is absolutely nothing. I would gain more Iron Skin recasting with only Iron Shrapnel equipped. 5 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: Is it valuable in groups where nukers are melting mobs two rooms away? ...It sure can be. Absolutely not. You're wasting a mod slot for an augment that will give you nothing in that case. "Nukers melt all the fodder" is a moot augment because in those cases you don't need augments at all since there will not be anyone left to shoot at you. RS is objectively bad and none of the arguments you or the other guy are giving prove this wrong. it literally gives too much low value to matter even in Starchart never mind higher level content. 10 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: If Piercing Roar was ever made to apply 10 stacks of the puncture status it would get nerfed...Either the stacks, the effect, Iron Skin mitigation values, or the Roar damage buff would get nerfed. I don't see why. At rank 10 it's 75% DR and it only lasts 6 seconds. The other frames I mentioned give 90% DR for a much longer duration. How would it get nerfed when other frames can do much better? It's just an extra oompf to his roar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 hours ago, T-Shark69 said: I didnt really think at all man This I can believe. 2 hours ago, T-Shark69 said: i just made up some hypothetical scenario in which your Reinforcing Stomp with its 5K extra iron skin would be beneficial to me with my 1M iron skin. And it's still not clear to me how would that happen. So focus on that please. Focus on a ridiculous hypothetical you admit just made up? Why? Those numbers are not going to be something anyone should ever need most of the game. Yes having hundreds of thousands of points on Iron Skin can be useful for very long runs, but it's just not needed anywhere else in the game and we both know this. So like I said way back when, thinking that larger numbers are automatically better, isn't smart. Having the ability to keep yourself safe isn't about having large numbers, but about having the Iron Skin stay on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 48 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said: You still need enemies around you for RS to do anything. At that low enemy density your looking at triple digit iron skin return which is absolutely nothing. I would gain more Iron Skin recasting with only Iron Shrapnel equipped. That's a silly argument given how wide Stomp's range actually gets...No offense. That said, I'm beginning to see your issue...You do realize that RS repairs whatever your Iron Skin's total is, right? You don't need Iron Shrapnel if you have Reinforcing Stomp; Those are two entirely different styles of play. The fact that you allow IS to enter into the discussion suggests to me that you are under the impression that someone using RS would still have the IS augment equipped as well. That would be a waste of a slot in that case given how redundant that would be. 1 hour ago, T-Shark69 said: Absolutely not Yeah it absolutely can be actually... If the team is moving there is absolutely every chance you are getting shot in the back by mobs. If the team is stationary then there are no mobs to build an IC off of to begin with. You seem to be using the most extreme conditions to justify your stance when most people aren't going to see the most extreme conditions...They are going to see normal ones instead. Nukers blowing up half the room or chasing other player's gunfire is fairly normal. 1 hour ago, T-Shark69 said: RS is objectively bad and none of the arguments you or the other guy are giving prove this wrong. it literally gives too much low value to matter even in Starchart never mind higher level content. My only argument so far is that there are playstyles that will prefer it over the option to constantly gamble on bigger IC's to remove and restore Iron Skin. Right and wrong don't reapply apply past that tbh. I will say though that I think that the stance you've taken is fairly arrogant in that it assumes that your's is the only way to play though. 1 hour ago, T-Shark69 said: I don't see why. At rank 10 it's 75% DR and it only lasts 6 seconds. The other frames I mentioned give 90% DR for a much longer duration. How would it get nerfed when other frames can do much better? It's just an extra oompf to his roar. Because it cheese's a weapon status effect in a wide radius while also providing a straight damage buff at a fairly low cost with no hoops. Gara's has hoops literally. Nezha's doesn't provide the same degree of buffs without the use of a hoop. Trinity? Let's just not... Talking about balancing a skill to be in line with Trinity just screams for another nerf...She's been through enough already. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Shark69 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 @Padre_Akais look ill cut it short mate. You wrote a lot and im sure you put some time in it. But there is no way you can spin it around to make a mod that needs 30 enemies in the room to give you 8K iron skin, being better than one that lets you recast yours for 9K no strings attached. Playstyle or not. Arguing further to convince you of it would be a major waste of our times I think. 54 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: Because it cheese's a weapon status effect in a wide radius while also providing a straight damage buff at a fairly low cost with no hoops. The hoops being pressing a button in your ally's general direction? Cmon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hokibukisa Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 I have a question for you Rhino pros! I only run with 190 strength and no augment mods. (155 100 190 190) My Iron Skin is 6099, my 804 armor is 72.8 damage reduction and my HP is 1070. I play Rhino all the time and I can't remember the last time I even came close to dying. What exactly is the scenario which justifies focusing so much on huge Iron Skin numbers? I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hokibukisa Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 I mean, I get that not dying is part of the game, but I think hes already ridiculously good at not dying, and hes got two other abilities that are waaaaaaaay more important than Iron Skin.. so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining_Moon Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) Arbitration, Kuva survive, play beyond one, two, three ... hours. vor 10 Minuten schrieb Hokibukisa: What exactly is the scenario which justifies focusing so much on huge Iron Skin numbers? I don't get it. Arbitration, Kuva survive, play beyond one, two, three ... hours, fight with high level enemies. And believe me, a high level Ancient Healer eats 100k iron skin for breakfast Edited June 19, 2020 by Shining_Moon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Navalhabr Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 On 2020-06-17 at 12:55 PM, kwlingo said: Too many times I see Rhino mains claiming Rhino is a great team synergy for missions like SS, Plague, Eidolons, Profit Taker, etc. Is it once to have a small damage boost? Yes but most of the time you don't need a damage buff for the mission or there are other frames that do a better job. Is he needed to boost the speed of the objective? No There are so many other frames that will help out the entire team. I believe Rhino's are damage hoarders and self protectors instead of groups synergy driven. They want to solo the mission but in a group setting. What are your thoughts? Does he need a change? 1 - Imune to knockdown from weapons 2 - Imune to Status effect 3 - Great Crowd control 4 - Team Buff Rhino Range can outperform ANY warframe in CC, great for MD, D and high level infested. Rhino Strenght + Natural talent is imortal. There is a legend from the past, that only LIMBO can stop RHINO STRONG STOMP, but i will never teach you this build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, Hokibukisa said: I mean, I get that not dying is part of the game, but I think hes already ridiculously good at not dying, and hes got two other abilities that are waaaaaaaay more important than Iron Skin.. so.. Eh, you have to think of Iron Skin as a pre-emptive health layer and having it scale was precisely what we asked for in his kit because we have already seen what gameplay looked like for Rhino when it didn't. There are game scenarios (primarily endless modes) where you will want it really high and to stay there... But for the majority of regular play it won't matter overmuch so long as it's been augmented some. The question remains whether you want to gamble on constantly herding enough mobs to build a higher and higher Iron Skin number, if you want to heal your already high Iron Skin number for free, or you want to build a high number and forget about it instead. Circumstances and preference dictate the choice imo. So long as you have managed to build a decent Iron Skin to begin with and have a plan for upkeep, it's 6 of one and half dozen of the other on preference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hokibukisa Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Why would I do that? 48m 12 second stuns and 48m 45s 95% roars I play Broframe I'm starting to see why some people loath seeing Rhino in their groups if they're modding for 1,000,000 ironskin instead of buffing and CC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining_Moon Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) vor 56 Minuten schrieb Hokibukisa: Why would I do that? 48m 12 second stuns and 48m 45s 95% roars I play Broframe I'm starting to see why some people loath seeing Rhino in their groups if they're modding for 1,000,000 ironskin instead of buffing and CC Basically it is very easy for me. I cast iron skin at the right moment, about 80k to 120k. Then I have a good 20 minutes of rest. During this time I can roar as much as I want with around 350 energy boxes. Only about 30 meters and 20 seconds. but with about 160% strength buff. More strength, more buff for my teammates. And for me, a recast every 20 seconds is not a problem. With stomp I can go into the cc at any time, but I prefer to make cc using melee and speed. What is gone is gone. Also, I don't annoy the gun players so that enemies their heads keep turning. But the nice thing is the many possibilities in warframe. Edited June 19, 2020 by Shining_Moon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwlingo Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Shining_Moon said: And believe me, a high level Ancient Healer eats 100k iron skin for breakfast Or bring him to Fortuna and Nullifiers will make him into a frame with no abilities useful farming torrides 3 hours ago, Hokibukisa said: What exactly is the scenario which justifies focusing so much on huge Iron Skin numbers? I don't get it. Go afk for a few minutes so I can just sit in the middle of enemies hoarding me. Lol great ability but defeats the purpose of having a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 hour ago, kwlingo said: Or bring him to Fortuna and Nullifiers will make him into a frame with no abilities useful farming torrides Any frame faces the same challenge though in that case. 1 hour ago, kwlingo said: Go afk for a few minutes so I can just sit in the middle of enemies hoarding me. Lol great ability but defeats the purpose of having a challenge. Like most frames, it's always possible to slather on extra cheese as a playstyle but that doesn't make that playstyle a requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Shark69 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 7 hours ago, Hokibukisa said: What exactly is the scenario which justifies focusing so much on huge Iron Skin numbers? I don't get it. To revive all the bad Rhinos, Chromas and Inaroses that die 20 min in arbitrations and ask me to extract. 7 hours ago, Hokibukisa said: I play Broframe I'm starting to see why some people loath seeing Rhino in their groups if they're modding for 1,000,000 ironskin instead of buffing and CC 1M Iron Skin does not mean bad CC and Roar. Learn good builds next time before u post mocking gifs and act all smug while modding health and duration on Rhino. 3 hours ago, Padre_Akais said: Any frame faces the same challenge though in that case. Precisely. Rhino and Nullifiers are just a meme. Nothing in Fortuna can kill you even with basic Iron Skin thanks to shield gating and you can recast your roar easilly. Now Nekros getting nullified, thats a hamper to the farm because they're used to casting and forgetting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining_Moon Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 vor 5 Stunden schrieb kwlingo: Or bring him to Fortuna and Nullifiers will make him into a frame with no abilities useful farming torrides Translate with Google language tool I wrote for which endgame content I like to use Rhino. Different endgame content different frames, the choice is big and I don't just have Rhino in my closet. To the Nullifiers (General in game), it is no wonder that when all builds mod on poison and virus everyone has problems with it. Take a rapid-fire weapon with a magnetism element and play ahead. The problem will only be a small one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining_Moon Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 vor 5 Stunden schrieb kwlingo: Go afk for a few minutes so I can just sit in the middle of enemies hoarding me. Lol great ability but defeats the purpose of having a challenge. Oh I don't need a Rhino for that. If that's your annoyance, I'd rather leave Mirage, Valkyr, Chroma, and Nyx in the closet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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