Tencent on the hunt to buy Warframe? (Deal not confirmed/final)

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

Let me be polite with the answer. 

Sorry I'm not interested. Thank you. 

Aww shucks that’s all you had to say! Sucks though I would love to hear you voice these opinions though no jokes  I love actually debating with others 

[Felsagger]

Lets get back on topic. 

 

Anyone could explain IN DETAIL how parent companies works and how Law behaves?

Urlan made me laugh hard. 

"Tencent Proper>Tencent Mobile>Leyou>DE+Splash Damage+assorted in this example"

So DE is considered a mobile developer? LMAO. jk....:3

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

3 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Lets get back on topic. 

 

Anyone could explain IN DETAIL how parent companies works and how Law behaves?

Urlan made me laugh hard. 

"Tencent Proper>Tencent Mobile>Leyou>DE+Splash Damage+assorted in this example"

So DE is considered a mobile developer? LMAO. jk....:3

I quoted you a few articles to read before and even in our last response as to how shares are managed within companies at simplistic level

[Felsagger]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

I quoted you a few articles to read before and even in our last response as to how shares are managed within companies at simplistic level

Bring the good sources. I will read them. 

I'm giving you the opportunity to teach. Show the links and the references. I'll get into them once they where posted. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

7 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Bring the good sources. I will read them. 

I'm giving you the opportunity to teach. Show the links and the references. I'll get into them once they where posted. 

Look in almost every thread where we’ve argued I’ve sited multiple 

[Rage_Inducer]

Why do people keep freaking out over this?
Tencent got several other companies as well and proceded to change nothing.

[Felsagger]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Look in almost every thread where we’ve argued I’ve sited multiple 

Looks like you can't be a teacher either. : 3 

[Felsagger]

28 minutes ago, Rage_Inducer said:

Why do people keep freaking out over this?
Tencent got several other companies as well and proceded to change nothing.

People get worried. 

https://today.line.me/hk/article/Why+fans+hated+Tencent+s+first+‘pay+to+win’+Call+of+Duty+game+for+China-K8qyYo

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2019/03/28/commentary/world-commentary/worried-huawei-take-closer-look-tencent/

WASHINGTON – It has long been understood that Tencent — the Chinese firm that owns WeChat and QQ, two of the world’s most widely used social media applications — facilitates Chinese government censorship and surveillance. But over the past year, the scale and significance of this activity have increased and become more visible, both inside and outside China.

 

LOL, I think Sarah Kook is a fear monger. hmm.../sarcasm. 

 

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, Felsagger said:

I'm skeptic. 

No you are not, since those tend to follow proof, in this case national and international laws.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

People get worried. 

https://today.line.me/hk/article/Why+fans+hated+Tencent+s+first+‘pay+to+win’+Call+of+Duty+game+for+China-K8qyYo

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2019/03/28/commentary/world-commentary/worried-huawei-take-closer-look-tencent/

WASHINGTON – It has long been understood that Tencent — the Chinese firm that owns WeChat and QQ, two of the world’s most widely used social media applications — facilitates Chinese government censorship and surveillance. But over the past year, the scale and significance of this activity have increased and become more visible, both inside and outside China.

 

LOL, I think Sarah Kook is a fear monger. hmm.../sarcasm. 

 

Certain products are known to be used for shady business, as been mentioned here before, and the reason why people should avoid software made in china. WF isnt made in that country so the worries around those things are unfounded. Just as the CoD thing, that is for the chinese market, a different market from the west. A thing that has been common in asian MMOs for atleast the last 15 years. The same reason why western ports that arent properly monetized to fit the western region fail, no matter if they come from south korea or china. 

What you should look at is chinaframe, which has no different monetization compared to Warframe, even though they are allowed to change the monetization model as they see fit for that version.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

No you are not, since those tend to follow proof, in this case national and international laws.

Yes I am. I simply read about what is going on and make the calls. Remember I don't come empty handed unlike you. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Certain products are known to be used for shady business, as been mentioned here before, and the reason why people should avoid software made in china. WF isnt made in that country so the worries around those things are unfounded.

Excuses.

I gave reasons why people are skeptic. There are information available about Tencent, sorry TEN CENT. 

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Just as the CoD thing, that is for the chinese market, a different market from the west. A thing that has been common in asian MMOs for atleast the last 15 years. The same reason why western ports that arent properly monetized to fit the western region fail, no matter if they come from south korea or china. 

So your excuse is that the failure is attributed because of a different market from the west? What type of excuse is that? 

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What you should look at is chinaframe, which has no different monetization compared to Warframe,

And according to you that should be enough to provide certainty that no further monetization will end up being applied over this game? 

I think you have one of this.

Stop using your Palantir in this conversation Ervin. You can't derive suppositions like that. Logic doesn't work that way. 

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even though they are allowed to change the monetization model as they see fit for that version.

Fine, that's not the issue. The question is this. Are they capable of imposing profit goals to DE, yes or no? 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

Fine, that's not the issue. The question is this. Are they capable of imposing profit goals to DE, yes or no? 

As a shareholder no they can’t impose such 

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shareholder.asp

 

[Felsagger]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

As a shareholder no they can’t impose such 

That is what you say. 

In your link that is not specified. 

Nice try tho. 

 

 

 

[-Aridum-]

First of all i really loving this game and DE but i'm just thinking of this rumor, and if this is going to be happen i think im not going to play this game. Yes last updates not qualified enough. They are almost meaningless just really turned annoying farmingframator. Big potential railjack, Kuva liche and Steel path... But we can critical about everything about this game without forget one thing. This game still free while many years and have a good story with no argue best f2p game. u know there is not anything pay to play or pay to win.  And i dont have any trust to tencent. Warframe could be make something bad like everyone could. But Tencent not a mistake i think its kind of a end. A bad one. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

That is what you say. 

In your link that is not specified. 

Nice try tho. 

 

 

 

You didn’t read it? 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

This then becomes a question of whether or not you care that some portion of the profits made, however indirectly, go to this company and can be used to fund these “other” products which can/will/do support “Chinese Censorship” (such a polite near-misnomer) and “surveillance” (spying is spying and the US just shut down a Chinese Operation in the states).

And more personally, does DE find this possibility/probability/inevitability palatable enough to ignore how it will affect their reputation?  Will they accept the reality and perception of being associated with this?

 

[OniDax]

16 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

As a shareholder no they can’t impose such 

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shareholder.asp

 

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In many cases, majority shareholders are company founders. In older companies, majority shareholders are frequently descendants of a company founders. In either case, by controlling more than half of a company’s voting interest, majority shareholders wield considerable power to influence key operational decisions, including the replacement of board members, and C-level executives like chief executive officers (CEOs) and other senior personnel. For this reason, companies often attempt to avoid having majority shareholders amongst their ranks. Furthermore, unlike the owners of sole proprietorships or partnerships, corporate shareholders are not personally liable for the company's debts and other financial obligations. Therefore, if a company becomes insolvent, its creditors cannot target a shareholder’s personal assets.

Don't tell me Tencent can't impose pressure on DE to perform the way they want, including meeting profit goals. They can replace the CEO if they want to. They can replace senior personnel if DE doesn't perform the way they want. I don't know if they will, but they can. Leyou could do that right now. Having read it, I ask that you please quote the paragraph that you think supports your assertion.

[Felsagger]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

This then becomes a question of whether or not you care that some portion of the profits made, however indirectly, go to this company and can be used to fund these “other” products which can/will/do support “Chinese Censorship” (such a polite near-misnomer) and “surveillance” (spying is spying and the US just shut down a Chinese Operation in the states).

And more personally, does DE find this possibility/probability/inevitability palatable enough to ignore how it will affect their reputation?  Will they accept the reality and perception of being associated with this?

 

DE can't say nothing and do nothing about it. 

 

And yes this will negatively affect their image. That's the sad part. 

Anyway, I'll give this topic a rest because even if I'm right about it, the outcome will be non favorable for DE, the community and the game. 

DE should start hitting home runs again if they want to get out of this one alive. 

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Yes I am. I simply read about what is going on and make the calls. Remember I don't come empty handed unlike you. 

Excuses.

I gave reasons why people are skeptic. There are information available about Tencent, sorry TEN CENT. 

So your excuse is that the failure is attributed because of a different market from the west? What type of excuse is that? 

And according to you that should be enough to provide certainty that no further monetization will end up being applied over this game? 

I think you have one of this.

Stop using your Palantir in this conversation Ervin. You can't derive suppositions like that. Logic doesn't work that way. 

Fine, that's not the issue. The question is this. Are they capable of imposing profit goals to DE, yes or no? 

No you do not read the facts. You make assumptions based on parts of a company, but you ignore the actual laws in place that prohibits those things here. You come as empty handed as someone possibly can since you ignore the info out there regarding how business works, which is also so easily obtained that we shouldnt have to repost it here for you to read.

They arent skeptic, they are fear mongering, since they ignore facts that do not suit their "idea", just like you. I'm skeptic and I was skeptic towards Sony and any other big company that will take over. I do however look at other games that have been bought out aswell as having some experience with certain ones of them myself over the last few years. What you do is the same as people did in PoE, doom and glooming based on some "china overlords" idea, which never happened in the end due to laws, rules and regulations for trading and companies etc.

You've still failed to provide any example of a western game destroyed or changed by Tencent. And yes, the "failure" is very much based in the differences between western and asian gaming culture. Hence why Diablo Immortal was recieved as massive joke, it was an idea spawned in how asians approach and play games, which simply doesnt transition to the west at all. 

And of course Tencent can impose profit goals on DE, just as Leyou said they thought DE had released too little story content, which they thought could have been good for revenue. DE are however not obligated to follow what Tencent imposes, since it comes down to DE in the end. And in order to impose new profit goals, Tencent would need to be a dedicated gaming company that actually knows the business. They do however not, that is why they want already established studios that know what to do and already are successful.

You also need to understand that it isnt always the best thing to actually recieve profit from the revenue of a subsid, it may be far better to simply loop it. This way shares get stronger through the subsid, while the parent doesnt have to start paying taxes in the country that the subsid makes its earnings in. But if the parent suddenly starts to earn through a subsid, they themselves are obligated to pay tax there aswell. There is alot going on with businesses outside of that cans and cannots you are stuck on.

[SneakyErvin]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

This then becomes a question of whether or not you care that some portion of the profits made, however indirectly, go to this company and can be used to fund these “other” products which can/will/do support “Chinese Censorship” (such a polite near-misnomer) and “surveillance” (spying is spying and the US just shut down a Chinese Operation in the states).

And more personally, does DE find this possibility/probability/inevitability palatable enough to ignore how it will affect their reputation?  Will they accept the reality and perception of being associated with this?

 

Likely no, since the majority of the company is no longer chinese and in the end it is all about profit. The Tencent products that were used for say surveillance werent designed to be used that way to begin with. It was a result of poor security measures aswell as some features that in reality are "harmelss" along with infected code being used in it. Tencent also dropped in value when they hit rock bottom in a survey done by amnesty regarding social platforms and how they can be used to let governments spy on citizens. Alot of those loop holes and issues got patched up aswell.

Now it simply comes down to chinese laws regarding how the government are allowed to use social media and other communication services. I mean no country fully shields their citizens anymore from what happens online. Not even here in Sweden, the most even steven lukewarm country on earth, are we free/safe to express our opinions anonymously/privately online. It isnt even against the law here to infiltrate "private" groups on social media only to then report people to the authorities based on the comments layed out in that group.

So people kinda read into the whole "chinese censorship" a bit too much while know little of what is going on in the world. Sure it may not be the government here spying on disidents, but it isnt much better that private people are allowed to infiltrate and spy on others and then have them sent to court to serve possible jail time or high fines based on what was said in what would be a private group conversation.

[Felsagger]

30 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No you do not read the facts.

 

Wrong again. I take my time reading. But this post proves that you want to keep on arguing. 

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You make assumptions based on parts of a company, but you ignore the actual laws in place that prohibits those things here.

Wrong again, I do speak about possible outcomes. Why your logic breaks? There are laws but laws doesn't stop people from doing certain actions. 

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You come as empty handed as someone possibly can since you ignore the info out there regarding how business works, which is also so easily obtained that we shouldnt have to repost it here for you to read.

Wrong again, I provided links when necessary. Previous page disproves your claim. 

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They arent skeptic, they are fear mongering

Wrong again. Your google translation is not doing the necessary work that is supposed to do. 

Fear Mongering is not the same as skepticism. If there is reasonable doubt people are going to write what they think. In some occasions some writers on the sources cite evidence and events. 

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, since they ignore facts that do not suit their "idea"

You are not a credible source of information to counter their arguments. You are not a news researcher either. 

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, just like you. I'm skeptic and I was skeptic towards Sony and any other big company that will take over

Sony has a better portfolio than Tencent, fact. 

Sony has the best exclusive games, fact. 

Sony sold more than all the Xbox in every generation, fact. 

Sony has the best console game developers, fact. 

However you can be skeptic about Sony. That is perfectly reasonable. Sony covered up the situation with TLoU2 stupidity made by Neil Druckmann. Yes, Sony IS NOT perfect. They protect their business at all cost. 

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. I do however look at other games that have been bought out aswell as having some experience with certain ones of them myself over the last few years. What you do is the same as people did in PoE, doom and glooming based on some "china overlords" idea, which never happened in the end due to laws, rules and regulations for trading and companies etc.

That's not my discourse. Tencent will probably do the same as Leyou. Things will remain the same. However that is really bad if such thing happens. 

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You've still failed to provide any example of a western game destroyed or changed by Tencent.

Mentioned before Transformers Online. 

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And yes, the "failure" is very much based in the differences between western and asian gaming culture. Hence why Diablo Immortal was recieved as massive joke, it was an idea spawned in how asians approach and play games, which simply doesnt transition to the west at all. 

Wrong again. Failure happens when developers and publishers don't take time understanding their target audiences. That is not an excuse. Tencent is multi national they should know better. 

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And of course Tencent can impose profit goals on DE, just as Leyou said they thought DE had released too little story content, which they thought could have been good for revenue. DE are however not obligated to follow what Tencent imposes, since it comes down to DE in the end. And in order to impose new profit goals, Tencent would need to be a dedicated gaming company that actually knows the business. They do however not, that is why they want already established studios that know what to do and already are successful.

You alone accepted this. 

My conversation ends right here I don't need to add anything else.  

 

 

 

[Felsagger]

8 hours ago, OniDax said:

Don't tell me Tencent can't impose pressure on DE to perform the way they want, including meeting profit goals. They can replace the CEO if they want to. They can replace senior personnel if DE doesn't perform the way they want. I don't if they will, but they can. Leyou could do that right now. Having read it, I ask that you please quote the paragraph that you think supports your assertion.

OniDex, thank you for quoting that part but let me tell you one thing, Sweatshawp is simply playing the forum game for the sake of it. It's obnoxiously obvious. 

He comes here doing devil's advocate. He's not interested in the conversation at all. 

Anyway, I'll leave things be. If Tencent works, good. If not we pick another game. That's it. 

[TrouNoir]

I'm not going to come here and say I'll stop playing Warframe if Tencent buys Leyou. I have 6000 hours in Warframe, I've been playing for nearly 7 years, it's a huge part of my life.

If Tencent gains control over Warframe, that will be the last time I buy anything, however. Right now I buy Prime Access regularly, I sometimes buy Platinum, I buy Tennogen very frequently, I've bought every one of those weird packs on Steam that come with cosmetics, I've bought every Tennocon Digital Ticket. I won't be able to spend any more money in Warframe if there's a chance that even a portion of it will be going to Tencent. Tencent is an arm of the Chinese Communist Party, a genocidal, authoritarian regime that oppresses hundreds of millions of people and is working actively to undermine the interests of most of the countries we live in. As we speak Xi Jinping is running literal concentration camps for ethnic and religious minorities in China, and that is what you will be helping to fund if you support nationalized Chinese companies like Tencent. 

[-Aridum-]

23 minutes ago, TrouNoir said:

I'm not going to come here and say I'll stop playing Warframe if Tencent buys Leyou. I have 6000 hours in Warframe, I've been playing for nearly 7 years, it's a huge part of my life.

If Tencent gains control over Warframe, that will be the last time I buy anything, however. Right now I buy Prime Access regularly, I sometimes buy Platinum, I buy Tennogen very frequently, I've bought every one of those weird packs on Steam that come with cosmetics, I've bought every Tennocon Digital Ticket. I won't be able to spend any more money in Warframe if there's a chance that even a portion of it will be going to Tencent. Tencent is an arm of the Chinese Communist Party, a genocidal, authoritarian regime that oppresses hundreds of millions of people and is working actively to undermine the interests of most of the countries we live in. As we speak Xi Jinping is running literal concentration camps for ethnic and religious minorities in China, and that is what you will be helping to fund if you support nationalized Chinese companies like Tencent. 

Lets hope we can just play it as well after if tencent buyed warframe buddy 😄 Just imagine u are buying a season pass for better relics or its turning pvp side like a pubg gameplay 😄 What do u think u can still play it ?

[Felsagger]

59 minutes ago, TrouNoir said:

I'm not going to come here and say I'll stop playing Warframe if Tencent buys Leyou. I have 6000 hours in Warframe, I've been playing for nearly 7 years, it's a huge part of my life.

 

The good thing about Warframe is that you do not lose your progress. those hours and the effort will not be lost. You keep your account if nothing changes on that respect. Some people come and go. Have a good hiatus helps. There are other games out there. 

It depends on DE if they score some hits in this ball game. I'm more optimistic on how this game is progressing in terms of new player acquisitions. The game is growing and clients seems to be diverse. DE improves the game play of it, the game gains more life during the next cycle of consoles, specially the PS5. The PC platform is doing as expected. 

I'll wait how things moves from now on. You will notice the red flags immediately. Once they start piling up then it is time to leave. Right now I haven't seen any. We will see soon if such is the outcome. To be honest DE must be careful from now on with the delivery they need to get rigorous and committed to the project once we get out of the pandemic. 

Few agendas got hit hard by it. The panorama of the video game Industry is shifting again. Let see what Sony delivers for the next generation. The market leader will dictate the pace of things to come. Only few games on the GAAS F2P market are good. Very few.