The unfortunate moral dilemma of imprisoned Solaris on new corpus ships

[WhiteMarker]

3 minutes ago, Artekkor said:

The solaris prisoner situation is morally loaded, wether it wants it or not. With a clear GOOD and BAD option.

This was always in the game.
What changed is that you now face the Solaris people in prison.
You just happened to open your eyes now. If you really cared then we would have had this conversation long before...

And btw. because I didn't say it before:
I really like what DE did with these prisoners. We need way more of that in the game.

Now that is a real dilemma. Who should DE please? You or me?

[Artekkor]

19 минут назад, WhiteMarker сказал:

This was always in the game.

No it wasn't. Point it to me. Do you mean simply not taking up Eudico's bounty? Because its nothing. I'm not taking Eudico's bounty because i'm doing a sortie, or a fissure or any other mission. And presumably every missions is aimed towards strategically sabotaging efforts of the hostile factions. So in that sense they are perfectly equal. You are technically doing something. And even if you are not - there is army of tenno who will do it instead.

But prisoners are one-time opportunity occurance that shows up for like 10 seconds and goes away forever. What happens to the prisoner? Does he gets saved by another tenno raid? What are the chances of that happening again? Again - this is a completely unique occurance as far as i'm concerned.

DE adressed the guys trapped inside the granum void - they gave them the standing reward so that the players did not just IGNORED them during the run, because if anything saving them was just more of pain in the ass because they would add the timer and the players would have to stay in the mission until timer runs out - an issue that's also been adressed. So now you have no excuse besides laziness and not having Xoris equiped (or just, you know... not doing the granum void).

They adressed that... So why not this?

[Artekkor]

11 минут назад, Artekkor сказал:

No it wasn't. Point it to me. Do you mean simply not taking up Eudico's bounty? Because its nothing. I'm not taking Eudico's bounty because i'm doing a sortie, or a fissure or any other mission. And presumably every missions is aimed towards strategically sabotaging efforts of the hostile factions. So in that sense they are perfectly equal. You are technically doing something. And even if you are not - there is army of tenno who will do it instead.

But prisoners are one-time opportunity occurance that shows up for like 10 seconds and goes away forever. What happens to the prisoner? Does he gets saved by another tenno raid? What are the chances of that happening again? Again - this is a completely unique occurance as far as i'm concerned.

DE adressed the guys trapped inside the granum void - they gave them the standing reward so that the players did not just IGNORED them during the run, because if anything saving them was just more of pain in the ass because they would add the timer and the players would have to stay in the mission until timer runs out - an issue that's also been adressed. So now you have no excuse besides laziness and not having Xoris equiped (or just, you know... not doing the granum void).

They adressed that... So why not this?

To double-gank myself in this: i want to clarify that i'll be fine with this fascinating occurance staying in the game.
However: i would really like the game to aknowledge this and not just leave it akwardly hanging in the air.

Right now its very akward. You find the guy, he pleads for help, you just ignore him and go away. And this never comes up again. Neither Tenno, nor Solaris ever speak of this again, like it didn't happen. The game sets something up and does nothing with it, which is anti-climatic all by itself. Trouble without the pay-off.

I would find it very amusing to find a random solaris NPC who would just go "Hey, remember me? We met on that corpus ship, a month ago. Thanks for saving me, A******."

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

Let me help.........

1. Give us the ability to shoot prisoners in the face or slit thier throats to put them out of their misery
2. What about all those poor bastards you left strapped up because you didnt explore the ships fully ???? Forget about the guys who you found and wanted to help.  How can you live with yourself knowing you didnt even try to find them all??? 

--------------------------------------------------------------

I hate the fact prisoners take coins to free.  I hate leaving the guys behind.

I think it would have been way more bad ass if prisoners counted towards VOX SOLARIS standing..  Each prisoner = 1k (including the ones in the granum voids).   Now this would actually make me continue to run voids and rescue prisoners any time I found them because I always want more Vox Standing for arcanes. 

Going towards Solaris United is meaningless.  Who the hell thought that would be helpful??  Hunting is a super awesome easy way of farming standing for SU.  If your a veteran hunting is still a super easy method but you can also just do exploiter once and boom you got more than enough mining rocks from the rewards to turn in to max out for the day.  So really your going to make prisoners worth SU standing???  

Vox would be way more helpful.   Exploiter is an awesome fight and I wish I could do them all the time but because that fight consumes diluted thermia you have to grind fractures and that crap is super boring.  Hunting toroids is a broken horrible experience.  So unless you force yourself to fight orb spiders or farm toroids your screwed.... those prisoners would hae really helped out with that.   Make the corpus kidnap ostrons to!!  Let the ostrons count towards Quills standing....   

Watch the amount of prisoners being rescued sky rocket....  

[Els236]

Le 11/07/2020 à 12:56, Artekkor a dit :

Oh right. Thanks for reminding me - the price for saving these guys is almost insultingly low as well. But that's another conversation entirely.

 

This is where I jump in to this conversation:

1 - I'm the most powerful being in the solar system (essentially), but I have to pay someone to free a prisoner? excuse me? why can't I break the prisoner out myself, or have Ordis or Little Duck hack it while I guard it for 20 seconds?

2 - The prisoners cost a fairly rare resource, yet offer less standing than if I went fishing for 2 minutes and got some Tromyzons.

 

Until they change the way we free these prisoners or until they increase the standing gains, they can stay on the ships in my opinion.

[Tenno_Cobra]

I think it's fine as it is. There's currently no real reason to return to the granum void after getting all the drops , and likewise there's no reason to interact with Founder Statues after you got all the murals and codex entries, so any further coins acquired after that are pretty much for the sole purpose of freeing up prisoners.

While yes , sometimes there's more than one prisoner per mission, there's also missions where you won't find them / will miss them / someone else will interact with them, so in theory you should be able to build a stockpile of coins with enough runs. I know I have 10 of pretty much all types of coins as of now, and I mosty save prisoners when I see them.

As for sometimes not freeing them, well , let's face it, they are virtual beings comprised of 0s and 1s and it's not like they actually exist in the first place. I mean it's not like players spend the entire day at Ticker's buying every single solari's debt bonds, so you just have to accept that you can't save everyone in the universe, no matter how hard you try. Just grab the ones you can save when you have the coins for them and you need the standing... Or don't , it really doesn't matter asides from a roleplay perspective.

 

[Artekkor]

18 минут назад, Tenno_Cobra сказал:

As for sometimes not freeing them, well , let's face it, they are virtual beings comprised of 0s and 1s and it's not like they actually exist in the first place. I mean it's not like players spend the entire day at Ticker's buying every single solari's debt bonds, so you just have to accept that you can't save everyone in the universe, no matter how hard you try. Just grab the ones you can save when you have the coins for them and you need the standing... Or don't , it really doesn't matter asides from a roleplay perspective.

Yeah, they are but an NPCs but still... The implications here are unsavory to say the least.

Also the Ticker's situation is different. Ultimately Ticker is running a charity, and if one tenno doesn't buy that debt - maybe someone else will. Maybe not even tenno.
The prisoners are in completely different context:
A) You might be their only chance of escaping before... Well, we don't even know what corpus are doing with them to begin with. Solaris spies, perhaps?
B) Its somewhat disturbing that they directly beg you - their one lucky chance - for help, only for you to give them a stare and just leave without saying a word or doing SOMETHING.

I have high doubts that DE intended this situation / gameplay mechanic to be this... Unprecedented compared to the rest of the game.

[Twilight-Knight]

Game or not, making choice of saving someone from the ship about to be destroy because you unstablize the reactor is not " just a game ". You've obviously not have  soccial lesson about moraliy. People who have this impact on them is based with a lots of things you  don't want to hear by the list.

So this is uncomforting yet true. And the one more twisted thing is that AFTER you can a whole lots of coins, you will get bored with rescuing and this and that. All will lead  to a boring of repetitive action that you do etheir for your goods or your morallity or nothing at all. ONLY then you will realize something else and most of the outcome is :

You don't even bother to them.

This is not a good mental relaxing for a game at all. Unless I want to analyze who is hyprocrite, who is trying to make commandment, who is trying to test their morallity blah blah blah blah...

[jimThehobo1]

On 2020-07-11 at 11:02 PM, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_ said:

I hate the fact prisoners take coins to free.  I hate leaving the guys behind.

Same here. What I was thinking about was giving us the option to hack the binding machine to free them for something like 50-100 Solaris standing.

 

On 2020-07-11 at 11:02 PM, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_ said:

I think it would have been way more bad ass if prisoners counted towards VOX SOLARIS standing..  Each prisoner = 1k (including the ones in the granum voids).   Now this would actually make me continue to run voids and rescue prisoners any time I found them because I always want more Vox Standing for arcanes. 

Going towards Solaris United is meaningless.  Who the hell thought that would be helpful??  Hunting is a super awesome easy way of farming standing for SU.  If your a veteran hunting is still a super easy method but you can also just do exploiter once and boom you got more than enough mining rocks from the rewards to turn in to max out for the day.  So really your going to make prisoners worth SU standing???  

Vox would be way more helpful.   Exploiter is an awesome fight and I wish I could do them all the time but because that fight consumes diluted thermia you have to grind fractures and that crap is super boring.  Hunting toroids is a broken horrible experience.  So unless you force yourself to fight orb spiders or farm toroids your screwed.... those prisoners would hae really helped out with that. 

How about this? Using a Granum crown yields Vox Solaris standing and simply hacking yields Solaris standing?

 

On 2020-07-11 at 11:02 PM, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_ said:

 Make the corpus kidnap ostrons to!!  Let the ostrons count towards Quills standing....

Sounds good to me but there would need to be a reason for it, even something as simple as Nef diversifying who he sends to the Granum void, freeing Ostron prisoners in the Granum void or hacking a prison device yield Ostron standing and using a granum crown for quills standing.

Also to avoid the dilemma of players getting quills or Vox Solaris standing before they unlock the respective syndicates, if you haven't unlocked them, they only offer Solaris or Ostron standing?

[Raun]

I too suffer the same guilt. Maybe they could have some Crown Bank Heist mission or weave it into Spy so you can sneakily take more Crowns.

To those who think it's stupid to feel "moral dilemma" in a game, how do we know you didn't cry for Aerith in FFVII? or Agro in Shadow of the Colossus?
I think it's a show of GREAT character to feel for fictional characters. It proves Empathy, even for those who technically don't exist.

[MollAgdeduba]

On 2020-07-11 at 12:28 PM, Artekkor said:

Hello there. I want to talk about imprisoned solaris on new corpus ships and certain issue with them as a game mechanic.

In order to free them i need to use a Granum Crown. Granum Crowns are a fairly hard-to-obtain resource. Not only i can gain 1 of them per mission max, but sometimes the carrier doesn't spawn to begin with (for no apparent reason). And when he does spawns - i might not have enough firepower to take him down (thankfully this is an issue only with tier 3).

Yet the prisoners can appear in numbers on the very same mission. So i gain 1 coin (hopefully), and might use like 3 or 4.

The problem: i want to have a healthy stockpile of these Granum Crowns. Like at least 20 of each, Just in case DE will add something that will require a lot of them.
In order to do that i have to ignore the solaris' pleas for help whenever i encounter them. Which is a little bit too often.
This causes me a certain moral discomfort, because i DO want to save them, but i can't spare the resources at the moment because i need to have a healthy back-up plan.

Can we do something about this? I don't think the granum crown requirement should be changed, but maybe there needs to be more opportunities to gain the crowns? Or some alternative method of helping those guys?

You want to stock 20 granum when poor guys are tortured and used for experiment... you have no heart.

Your greed of granum make those poor guys suffer, theyr child to become orphan and enter in the ventkid gang. Everytime you want to stock a granum remeber how evil is your choice!

[Zeddypanda]

The morally right thing to do is of course to ignore those guys and stock coins. When you use the coins to get in the Granum Void you can free three prisoners who are in immediate danger as opposed to one prisoner who seems to be fine for the moment and may be saved by other SU operatives yet. Plus, the whole Granum Void situation seems pretty dangerous!

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

A Few points:

 

1. There ARE enough coins to save them all and still keep a stockpile

IF you coordinate with your Squad and rotate who saves the guys this run vs who keeps their coin this run. Take turns being the heros. Remember, the treasurer actually drops 4 Coins, you just can't see the other 3.

 

2. Even without the above strategy: Spending a coin to enter Granum's Void gives you the opportunity to save 3 Corpus stranded in the void, vs the 1 your coin would have released. So in a way, ignoring the ones on the ship is the more moral choice. google "Trolley Problem" for some fun exercise.

 

side note: I don't switch the trolley track, I just close my eyes and walk away without interfering either way; refuse to play god.

[Kaggelos]

As someone who's played alot of Mass Effect with Paragon playthroughs, I agree 100% with OP. I cant even badmouth NPCs xD

Also, some people's contribution on this discussion is severely shallow, with questionable intelligence and morals, imo