Level 19 Mastery Test [very rude adjective] Stealth [rude words in general]

[SnU4uCghkY]

It pains my heart to see the joke "stealth" part of the game is becoming with best and only abroach aside of invisibility becomes blindly detonating "sh*-ton" of SILENCED EXPLOSIVES clusterbombing entire area randomly, because "dead men dont sing" approach is so much better than enything else (and that's design)... As if it wasnt bad enough that stealthy aproaches to spy vaults are getting removed (this may be some sort of a bug, but I never saw any DE comments on those threads, so I would call it very optimistic suspicion) in new corpus tilsets - but recently I was forced to do ridiculous level 19 mastery test end it is obvious that entire system got bugged into oblivion along side other patches...

[in case someone not remember: 19 is basically stealth rescue & objective destruction with only melee weapon equipped and no abilities]

After some tries, I got annoyed and decided to the cheese way with Banshee (since gunblades are no longer silent apparently?) + Redeemer approach. Got Enemy Radar to ~120m, enough damage on redemer for one palet to suffice - and finally was able to discover how big pile of **** this system is! Because that way it can be clearly seen that you can be spotted when noone or nothing has any right to do so! And I'm not even counting here getting spotted across the map by enemies facing my general direction from distance large enough I'm not able to target them reliably (and since it is partially due to crosshair dot becoming big enough in comparison to constitute an obscuring hindrance - I call that ridiculous). Considering time distance between last kill and getting spotted in those cases (already not counting unexplainable detections while killing enemies, as those fail so consistantly I consider it rule) it's highly doubtfull those were body spots (which again are a sh* design since those dont fit into mechanics of the rest of the game (speed vs stealth & body disposal vs balancing))

Problems can happened, be it design or bugs - but removing all workarounds and calling it dificulty is just BS. At least allow  users to disable rank-up monit from pestering them constntantly (as it is quite intrusive)!

Ps. To "get gooder's" - warframe stealth is basically RNG system (and that even before considering those insane evidently-out-of-nowhere detections). You have to be an id* to think one can get good in a game of chance, so...

PsPs. What I find most dissapointing, is that it looks like nerfs to workarounds are becoming a way to hide actuall issues under a pretense of users incompetency: "It is not that you were spotted while there was noone around, but instead dummy you simply missed an enemy, scanner or laser but anyway whatever means you used to discover that, happen to not match our conception so they are gone now..." (curious thing btw. 2 times recently got cought by lasers that had no right to do that, of no consequence but still something seem to be off with detection (one was too high, another in middle of off window) possibly related to railjack? as I imagine it has somehow new, different or at least altered detection system... - I personally suspect that there may have been some not always logical "concessions" made originally to stealth, to make it work in open environments (speedy space ninjas) that got messed up somehow (I suspect open spaces & railjack changes) - because I recally I used to do plenty of stealth when I started for affinity grind purposes and it mostly worked while now it is *nearly impossible* without invisibility which I was able to confirm recently since I did not realize at start that killing with parazon counted as finisher initially and after melee 3.0 weapons/builds that usually give me those in normal combat dont seem to work anymore)

[ES-Flinter]

Keep calm and strike when the enemies look away from you. If you don't know how to start try it like me: 

 

vor 7 Stunden schrieb SnU4uCghkY:

Because that way it can be clearly seen that you can be spotted when noone or nothing has any right to do so! And I'm not even counting here getting spotted across the map by enemies facing my general direction from distance large enough I'm not able to target them reliably (and since it is partially due to crosshair dot becoming big enough in comparison to constitute an obscuring hindrance - I call that ridiculous). Considering time distance between last kill and getting spotted in those cases (already not counting unexplainable detections while killing enemies, as those fail so consistantly I consider it rule) it's highly doubtfull those were body spots (which again are a sh* design since those dont fit into mechanics of the rest of the game (speed vs stealth & body disposal vs balancing))

Could zou please make a video with the bug? I did the test with no problems/ bugs and everytime I ask someone to clip this bug they simple don't respond or switch the topic.

vor 7 Stunden schrieb SnU4uCghkY:

Ps. To "get gooder's" - warframe stealth is basically RNG system (and that even before considering those insane evidently-out-of-nowhere detections). You have to be an id* to think one can get good in a game of chance, so...

The difference between a good Wf-player and a bad one is that the good one is able to read the enemies movement while mastering the gun-melee-switch system. 

[Fallowsthorn]

I mean, I don't like it either, but that's because I'm really bad at it. According to the wiki, you can use an Archgun because it's in the gear wheel or something like that, so if all else fails, that's my plan. Otherwise I just do the practice when I log on and fail and move on to something else.

[Lutesque]

I believe the way Detection works in these tests is you not only have to avoid Detection yourself... But you also have to prevent the enemy from seeing their Fallen Comrade's Corpses (atleast until they vanish)....

That's probably what's getting you caught...

 

In any case I did that Test with Loki Prime and a Zaw...

Believe it or not... I didn't want Loki for his Stealth Abilities.... I literally only Wanted him for his sprint Speed.

 

[Berzerkules]

The MR9 and MR19 tests are a pain. They are probably the only MR test that are an actual challenge. It's not that they are hard it's just a buggy mess.  Like everything in warframe there is a way to cheese it though. I used Wisp for both because of her passive. Being invis while airborne makes it fairly easy to aimglide into melee range and remain undetected. You can melee while airborne and they never have a chance to see you. You just have to figure out a path that works for you so enemies don't see corpses. You could also try heat damage on your melee so corpses disappear like a second after they die (not sure if that works but it might be worth a try).

 

[shadyadie]

I just tried the MR19 test with Excal and an unmodded Skana. I had every enemy radar mod possible on Excal. I did it on my 3rd attempt. I think I did this test the first time round with a Glaive (can't remember the frame but it doesn't really matter), so some kind of throwing weapon like that is probably a better option.

It's really quite stupidly stressful and that's coming from someone who loves stealth games (Dishonored fangirling intensifies).

Took me about 6 minutes and one of those mins was watching the last enemy to make sure I wouldn't feck it up for the 3rd time...

[Shalath]

On 2020-09-13 at 12:12 AM, Lutesque said:

I believe the way Detection works in these tests is you not only have to avoid Detection yourself... But you also have to prevent the enemy from seeing their Fallen Comrade's Corpses (atleast until they vanish)....

That's probably what's getting you caught...

 

In any case I did that Test with Loki Prime and a Zaw...

Believe it or not... I didn't want Loki for his Stealth Abilities.... I literally only Wanted him for his sprint Speed.

 

Correct, and they can obviously hear too. A common misconception on these two tests is that glaives are completely silent but if they hit something that isn't a body they make noise which can fail you.

I used Redeemer Prime for this test and just sniped everything from the starting platform.

[(NSW)BalticBarbarian]

I have long stopped considering MR tests as any sort of "Skill checks" and have been taking them all as "Gear checks" - after all, all MR really means is how many different warframes/weapons you have tried. So when I got to the MR19 test, I immediately equipped Banshee and Redeemer.

I think worrying about enemy radar is the wrong route here (put it on, it won't hurt - but it's not as crucial as some seem to think). What I ended up doing was just sniping all the enemies from the starting platform.

The main trick is to do a few trial runs and figure out exactly HOW MANY enemies there are. Then you just count them as you kill them. If I remember correctly, there is 1 who's quite hard to get from the starting platform, so you'll have to go around and snipe him later. But once you do a few practice runs, you'll know exactly where he is and where to snipe him from safely

Remember: even if you're cheesing the test - you still need to do a few practice runs. The 24hr timeout is really annoying.

[RikuGx]

My trick:

Skijati > Mercy Kills grant invisibility for 4-5 seconds

> Loki maximum sprint speed > run > C > continue invisible until all of them are dead > kill all balls > open cage > run to exit > profit

[ES-Flinter]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb RikuGx:

My trick:

Skijati > Mercy Kills grant invisibility for 4-5 seconds

> Loki maximum sprint speed > run > C > continue invisible until all of them are dead > kill all balls > open cage > run to exit > profit

Aracne trickery does also work if I remember it right.

[RikuGx]

20 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

Aracne trickery does also work if I remember it right.

While that is True its a 15% Chance at R5

So for one you have to Buy/Grind all these Trickeries (Expensive or extremly time consuming for 21 of them) AND you have to be MASSIVLY lucky to have it proc at the first grineer for it to work with since you dont wanna be seen

 

Meanwhile everyone at MR19 HAS to have done "The Sacrifice" and WILL have the Skiajati already (Unless sold  but seriously why would you?) which is a LOT more reliable

And it doesnt HAVE to be loki, Nehza works just as fine. loki just has the highest base speed to enhance, every frame works there. Only thing you really NEED is the Skiajati

 

I mean, i would do a video of me doing that with Loki / Skiajati but my pc is a massive Potatoe xD

[SnU4uCghkY]

Sorry for delay, happen to get myself wisp recently and out of curiousity tested jumpy approach, which worked succeed with standard melee on first attempt - so I guess passive abilities are another thing for DE to nerf next 😋
Anyway, here is compound bunch of answers:

@ES-Flinter
Not really, would likely get very stuttery (regretfully dont have any dedicated video hardware), also recording instance of something not happening (valid detection) rather than not happening is rather tricky.
Anyway, when it happened I saw one of the further enemies do bunch of 360 instant flips within second kind of "boty" behaviour (its like doezens teleports around but for ones view, poorly designed bots in some online games tend to do that) and I'm suspecting this may be part of the problem.
However the main issue is that detection is broken (was recent nora undetected acts way to measure that? that is actually good idea DE, commendations).

@Latesque
Success with wisp leaving corpses everywhere (attacking first enemy in seight) on first attempt vs. cleaning enemies progresively with redeemer (meaning enemies zone and bodies zone are separated) suggest otherwise. Of course that may be just extremely freaky RNG roll, but again, as mentioned, timing between last kill on former and detections suggest there were no bodies around.

==================================

Also, stealth gameplay is in a sad place now, you can even get spotted (which is visible) by camera facing away from you, through the locked doors (new corpus tileset).
    - you are not under camera you are quite far behind it actually
    - not a graphical illusion, camera was facing away from the door in old tilset as well
    - level alert off (and if you think if you could not trigger one in the first place those with omni-spotters around - good luck...)
    - there were no enemies in any direction, single faction map and no soul around

As to how I know I was spotted before doors opened - it is because vault failed the second doors opened (timer was not visible before - but I guess game design did not account for possibility that vault may be failed before it is possible to do so).
It is my suspicion that this may be releted to another problem (annoyance really) I recently discovered and it is one with arch melee. In case someone didnt know you can still teleport to your enemies as long as you target them on attack and are in proper distance (although this may be them messing up on range instead). What happens very often that the place you teleport is not in front of the enemies but totally random location instead, for example instead of teleporting 100m forward to your enemy within open space you get teleported into the right (or any random direction really) inside wall or in front of different enemy, which may be that for some game mechanics position/direction may be desynchronised from the rest.
Also, zanuka spawning inside LUA vault seemed to teleport me "outside" (current time) while standing in front of me. To dificult to replicate for confirmation this may be the distance/position thing again... although, could got thrown into portal and outside, but if I remember correctly it was more disorienting (like more like commander's teleport) even then this may be zanuka being immune to "time" transfers itself while still perceving them as distance (most engines those will be just another range zones on map).

The thing is, current stealth suck - ok, could deal with that. But when that crazy lock-every-workaround is only only option to level past rank 19 its not like there is anything that can be done to go around it...

[OmegaVoid]

I really enjoyed the MR19 test, when I came to it. I went to the Simulacrum, and worked out my own way through by trial and error, until I had a route which worked. It's not really "stealth play", admittedly, just following a pre-planned path. My route through the MR19 test.

Don't remember how long I spent on it, but it didn't take all afternoon. It was pretty satisfying for me to find my own path which consistently succeeded, so to me it was time well spent. And for players who don't want to invest much time in the test, there's YouTube vids showing routes and/or telling the cheeses.

So as far as the MR test goes, I don't see it as problematical -- especially since AFAIK there's nothing gated behind it except convenience.

I also spent some time today trying to stealth my way through it without following a planned route and sans any enemy radar. Though I failed many times I didn't encounter anything which seemed buggy or unfair. Not to say that glitches don't happen, but they don't appear to be the norm.

[LucianDeRomeo]

This game stopped being a game of skill a very long time ago, likely because they wanted to be just like all the other rapid fire loot shooters out there, which I'm sure helped them draw new crowds but it also cost them a considerable early stage and loyal fanbase that liked the game as it was. Now it's nothing more then a bunch of gear checks which most people not even able to build out their own gear because they can't be bothered to learn the mechanics.

[SnU4uCghkY]

@OmegaVoid
> I really enjoyed the MR19 test, when I came to it. I went to the Simulacrum, and worked out my own way through by trial and error,
> until I had a route which worked. It's not really "stealth play", admittedly, just following a pre-planned path.
> ... also spent some time today trying to stealth my way through it without following a planned route and sans any enemy radar.
> Though I failed many times I didn't encounter anything which seemed buggy or unfair.

Answer is a bit late (saw notification while writting other post) sorry for that:

To best describe how I cleared this mission/test, is to merge in ones mind 3 images:
1. Jump & Speed Mods
2. Melee Weapon Slam
3. "Man In Black" New York's Blackout scene/refference (see wisp passive)

Not exactly something I would consider a conventional stealthy approach. Still, after few updates following original post stealth seem to get better (not really sure how and why) at least that's the feeling I got after some reascues and some random low (group) spy missions - you don't seem to get spoted so much when you shouldn't get spotted but I won't claim the other side of the issue (not getting spoted when you should get busted) did not suffer in turn.

[Fallowsthorn]

On 2020-09-15 at 2:51 AM, RikuGx said:

Skijati > Mercy Kills grant invisibility for 4-5 seconds

BLESS YOU for this, this is so much easier!

Second try!

[Lutesque]

On 2020-09-12 at 9:22 PM, ES-Flinter said:

Keep calm and strike when the enemies look away from you. If you don't know how to start try it like me: 

 

Okay this is Starting to become annoying.... YouTube needs to fix this... 😐 !!!

On 2020-09-12 at 9:22 PM, ES-Flinter said:

Could zou please make a video with the bug? I did the test with no problems/ bugs and everytime I ask someone to clip this bug they simple don't respond or switch the topic.

To be fair... It's not always clear what is a bug or what is a Special Case Feature....

On 2020-09-13 at 1:12 AM, Lutesque said:

I believe the way Detection works in these tests is you not only have to avoid Detection yourself... But you also have to prevent the enemy from seeing their Fallen Comrade's Corpses (atleast until they vanish)....

That's probably what's getting you caught...

 

In any case I did that Test with Loki Prime and a Zaw...

Believe it or not... I didn't want Loki for his Stealth Abilities.... I literally only Wanted him for his sprint Speed.

 

Oh wow... I already Posted here before 😮 !!!! Old Thread... Not that old but still...

On 2020-09-15 at 11:51 AM, RikuGx said:

My trick:

Skijati > Mercy Kills grant invisibility for 4-5 seconds

> Loki maximum sprint speed > run > C > continue invisible until all of them are dead > kill all balls > open cage > run to exit > profit

I completely forgot about this....

Also I don't remember when Gauss came out... But he's the Speedy boy now with a Base of 1.4.... that's a whole 0.15 Points higher than Loki....

I believe his melee Damage gets increased while Red Line is active.... But if you do that... Those Sparks well cause you to get Detected.

 

[(XBOX)Rez090]

Skiajati + Enemy Radar/Vigilante Pursuit/(Primed) Animal Instinct + any frame = 

[RikuGx]

 

On 2021-03-28 at 1:53 AM, Lutesque said:

I completely forgot about this....

Also I don't remember when Gauss came out... But he's the Speedy boy now with a Base of 1.4.... that's a whole 0.15 Points higher than Loki....

I believe his melee Damage gets increased while Red Line is active.... But if you do that... Those Sparks well cause you to get Detected.

 

You cant use skills in that trial tho

But as far as i know he and loki have the same base speed

But generally yeah any one of the fast frames works fine, nezha works also with his extra gliding speed

[RikuGx]

On 2021-03-27 at 10:35 PM, Fallowsthorn said:

BLESS YOU for this, this is so much easier!

Second try!

youre welcome. I always try to find the most cheese way to solve content or afk it entirely xD