Minor annoyances and thoughts for Xaku

[(PSN)Starlight_Maiden]

Xaku feels really fun to use! However, I've been noticing a few things which have been bugging me. Majority of the focus is on their 3.

 

A. Deny's cost. It'd be nice if it had reduced costs for additional casts in a specific time period.

 

B. Accused. Enemies who are accused tend to keep running around. It would be cool if enemies caught by Gaze were targeted by both accused and nonaccused enemies. As well, Accused feels a bit useless to use at times? As ferrox and abilities don't damage nor affect them while weaponry does. It would be cool if abilities that aren't auto target were able to damage the accused enemies, allowing you to better make use of all of the abilities. 

C. Visuals for Xata's Whisper. For being an ability which adds void damage, the actual visual effect for it seems incredibly nonfitting. What if there was a swirling mass of void emergy going around the frame while it's active? Just something truly void themed. 

[Colyeses]

Yeah, while most of Xaku's kit is solid, Deny and Accused are both terrible. Accused targets just often die too fast, and Deny is just... There's no way to make a single-target, low damage ability with a 1 second cast time for 75 base energy cost work, really. It needs a mechanical overhaul.

One thing that also bugs me, but this is a minor thing and might just be me...

'Gaze' creates a zone that enemies don't want to enter, which is typically referred to as a 'denial zone', while 'Deny' creates an intense beam, like a piercing laser 'gaze'. These names and the abilities behind them just get cross-wired in my brain. I don't know if that's just me, but if it's not, I'd like to get these names swapped.

[Bakahung]

1 hour ago, Colyeses said:

These names and the abilities behind them just get cross-wired in my brain. I don't know if that's just me, but if it's not, I'd like to get these names swapped.

I also have this problem 😂

But I think a name swap is too late

[PsiWarp]

Aside from Gaze, Accuse and Deny are pretty much one-off abilities that while technically can last a long time with The Vast Untime, in practice they dont.

IMO, Accuse can take a lesson from abilities like Lull to have a lingering effect in case the newly converted enemies get vaporised by your teammates. Like a Void Fissure, Accuse Fissure would stay active for a short time to keep adding minions that wander into its radius up to the target cap.

Deny even with round 2 changes is at its core a linear damage/CC burst. At 75 energy it is definitely not worth the cost, needing you to have at least stolen a healthy amount of guns before doing any noticeable damage, with its CC not affecting basic Sentient troops for some reason. This power could be fixed if the beam lasts a bit longer and Xaku can sweep it by moving the reticle during cast, which means with some player input it can as advertised, annihilate or lift a large pizza slice worth of enemies.

[Colyeses]

51 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

This power could be fixed if the beam lasts a bit longer and Xaku can sweep it by moving the reticle during cast, which means with some player input it can as advertised, annihilate or lift a large pizza slice worth of enemies.

That could probably work, although I'd also opt to pair it with making The Lost swap places and energy costs with Xata's Whisper, because even with a sweep, 75 energy would prove too costly, in my opinion. 

But giving it a sweep would make it SO much more engaging already!

[NinjaZeku]

5 hours ago, (PSN)Starlight_Maiden said:

It would be cool if enemies caught by Gaze were targeted by both accused and nonaccused enemies.

Why do you want enemies do get decoy'd by a currently invincible / immortal enemy?

Especially your Accuse buddies, why don't you want those to attack and kill literally anything else?

5 hours ago, (PSN)Starlight_Maiden said:

It would be cool if abilities that aren't auto target were able to damage the accused enemies, allowing you to better make use of all of the abilities.

Why is it better if your little mind controlled army gets more easily killed?

4 hours ago, Colyeses said:

I'd like to get these names swapped

What's next, you're also gonna want the drop locations for Equinox and Hydroid swapped?
_{As in, so that the day & night two-form Frame drops from a two-form boss on a planet with a day & night cycle, and the water Frame drops from the boss on the water planet?}

That's just silly.

DE is Canadian, over there, dogs come from eggs, milk comes from bags, logic and reason have no sway over them :P

[Electropuncher]

Everyone talks about how Deny is a low damage ability, forgetting that it lifts anything it hits up for a pretty long time. Also it chunks enemies pretty nicely if it doesn't outright kill them, anyway.

Accuse's AI is weird, since I'll notice that if the Accused have no targets, they'll walk slowly away from the battle like they just watched Vay Hek flash them.

Xata's Whisper also makes a bit of a swirling cloud around your midsection. I suggest playing with your energy color until you find one that works. But yeah, it's easy to lose track of your abilities unless you're staring at the timers. TVU really needs its end cue volume ramped way up.

[Colyeses]

6 hours ago, (NSW)Electropuncher said:

Everyone talks about how Deny is a low damage ability, forgetting that it lifts anything it hits up for a pretty long time. Also it chunks enemies pretty nicely if it doesn't outright kill them, anyway.

The damage is in direct competition with weapons though, and weapons have infinitely better ammo economy, and most of them do far more damage, instantaneously.

It's not just that the output of Deny is awful, but the intake is, too. The cast time is terribly long, and it costs 75 energy.

All that for a single-target ability without auto-aim that can't decide whether it wants to kill or cc. Deny isn't the -worst- warframe ability, because we still have rage and banish, but it is definitely in the bottom 5%.

[Electropuncher]

On 2020-11-14 at 12:32 AM, Colyeses said:

The damage is in direct competition with weapons though, and weapons have infinitely better ammo economy, and most of them do far more damage, instantaneously.

It's not just that the output of Deny is awful, but the intake is, too. The cast time is terribly long, and it costs 75 energy.

All that for a single-target ability without auto-aim that can't decide whether it wants to kill or cc. Deny isn't the -worst- warframe ability, because we still have rage and banish, but it is definitely in the bottom 5%.

Deny isn't single target. It fires in a line and pierces enemies it hits. If you need to take enemies out of the fight and don't want to worry about skills like Bladestorm not working or keeping a wave from finishing, it's actually really useful.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Electropuncher said:

Deny isn't single target. It fires in a line and pierces enemies it hits. If you need to take enemies out of the fight and don't want to worry about skills like Bladestorm not working or keeping a wave from finishing, it's actually really useful.

It really isn't useful. It is admirable that you have found a use for it but the person you quoted accurately described why it simply isn't an effective option.

Deny is, essentially, a 25 energy ability tacked onto a 75 energy cost ability wheel. It is way too costly for the little you get out of it. Sure it pierces, and sure it does some decent damage, but you can do WAY more damage with other abilities in Xaku's kit, for far less energy.

Gaze+Lohk will outperform Deny many times over for WAY less energy.

If Deny were able to reliably hit multiple enemies then it might be a bit more useful, but piercing is nowhere near as useful as circular AOE. Warframe rarely sees clumped up enemies outside of survival missions.

 

Also... Why would you compare it to bladestorm? Bladestorm does way more damage, is WAY cheaper to cast, and is generally more simple to use (with the ash rework it is even better). I'm also not sure what you mean about keeping a wave from finishing... 

[Electropuncher]

On 2020-11-15 at 6:39 PM, Leqesai said:

Also... Why would you compare it to bladestorm? Bladestorm does way more damage, is WAY cheaper to cast, and is generally more simple to use (with the ash rework it is even better). I'm also not sure what you mean about keeping a wave from finishing... 

I wasn't. I was saying "Accuse and Gaze interfere with Bladestorm, Deny doesn't."

You're not wrong, Deny isn't the BEST ability. It's all right, at best. But I like it. It would be nice if it was 25 energy, though I think 50 would be more appropriate.

[Leqesai]

13 minutes ago, (NSW)Electropuncher said:

I wasn't. I was saying "Accuse and Gaze interfere with Bladestorm, Deny doesn't."

You're not wrong, Deny isn't the BEST ability. It's all right, at best. But I like it. It would be nice if it was 25 energy, though I think 50 would be more appropriate.

If it was 25 energy and not tied to the stupid ability wheel I would use it a lot more often, that's for sure. TBH Xaku's whisper should replace it on the wheel and Deny should be his 1.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

What needs Xaku is just to have her 1st buff her 2nd, and her void damage affect eidolons / profit taker shield.

Having her 1st affect her 2nd will make it better than the "mandatory" roar infuse.

And no, void damage working as.. voud damage won't be OP", eidolons hunters already 1hko shields, and activating her 1st to swap profit taker shield will be hard to handle.

[Leqesai]

8 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

What needs Xaku is just to have her 1st buff her 2nd, and her void damage affect eidolons / profit taker shield.

Having her 1st affect her 2nd will make it better than the "mandatory" roar infuse.

And no, void damage working as.. voud damage won't be OP", eidolons hunters already 1hko shields, and activating her 1st to swap profit taker shield will be hard to handle.

Xaku does not have "mandatory roar infuse" though... That's a pretty narrow-minded approach to subsumed abilities if you think roar is the be-all end-all.

Xaku's kit benefits from other abilities moreso than it does from Roar. Roar is only as useful on Xaku as it is on any other frame that is focused on using their weapons instead of their abilities.

Xaku's kit, however, is strong enough to not need roar. So I'm sorry to say but you're just wrong about this. It may be mandatory for -you- but it certainly isn't mandatory for others, especially people who use Xaku's kit effectively.

 

Also, Xaku does not need to have interaction with eidolons/profit taker. This should be quite obvious why such an interaction would be overpowered... There is a reason why DE isn't considering this...

[(PSN)camwyn-xenos]

So IF xaku has the ability to do eidolon and profit taker hers what happens nobody would go past diemos, you have no need for quills no reason for tenno, amps, focus half the game would be unnecessary and ultimately eidolons as well because arcane could be scarlet spear. 

  This is the reason xaku and revenant do not interact with eidolon Shields, only tenno can.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Il y a 5 heures, Leqesai a dit :

Xaku does not have "mandatory roar infuse" though... That's a pretty narrow-minded approach to subsumed abilities if you think roar is the be-all end-all.

Xaku's kit benefits from other abilities moreso than it does from Roar. Roar is only as useful on Xaku as it is on any other frame that is focused on using their weapons instead of their abilities.

Xaku's kit, however, is strong enough to not need roar. So I'm sorry to say but you're just wrong about this. It may be mandatory for -you- but it certainly isn't mandatory for others, especially people who use Xaku's kit effectively.

 

Also, Xaku does not need to have interaction with eidolons/profit taker. This should be quite obvious why such an interaction would be overpowered... There is a reason why DE isn't considering this...

No. Roar is specifically a better buff than Xaku 1st. Not "mandatory" as Xaku is ok as it is, but once you've subsumed rhino there little reason to change a damage buff with a better damage buff

[NinjaZeku]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

Xaku's kit benefits from other abilities moreso than it does from Roar.

Name some examples?

Like, of course there are alternatives, that's kinda why the mandatory there was in quotation marks and all,
but I'm curious which ones you consider simply 100% better choices.

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

Roar is only as useful on Xaku as it is on any other frame that is focused on using their weapons instead of their abilities.

Roar also buffs ability damage, which is pretty nifty not least for Grasp of Lohk.

And many Frames who rely on weapon damage may not up their Strength as much as Xaku is encouraged to do
(200% Strength gives 100% Shield & Armor removal on Gaze).

Plus of course, it's not just Xaku who benefits from Roar, but (potentially) the whole Squad.

[Leqesai]

27 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

Name some examples?

Like, of course there are alternatives, that's kinda why the mandatory there was in quotation marks and all,
but I'm curious which ones you consider simply 100% better choices.

Roar also buffs ability damage, which is pretty nifty not least for Grasp of Lohk.

And many Frames who rely on weapon damage may not up their Strength as much as Xaku is encouraged to do
(200% Strength gives 100% Shield & Armor removal on Gaze).

Plus of course, it's not just Xaku who benefits from Roar, but (potentially) the whole Squad.

Spectrorage, Blood Altar, Shooting Gallery, Silence, Pillage, Breach Surge, Dispensary, Ensnare, Elemental Ward and Resonator are all abilities I would pick before Roar. And if I'm really hard up for extra ability damage I'd put Empower on Xaku (since this will affect Gaze while Roar does not and is 1/3 the energy cost), generally opening up build flexibility a bit.

Xaku's abilities do not need buffed damage... Once you get to the magic 200% ability strength Xaku can scale their damage pretty much until the maximum enemy levels with Gaze (roar does not increase the armor strip from Gaze). Enemies with no shields/armor coupled with the scaling damage of Lohk makes building more strength redundant. Your comment about Xaku's relationship to Roar compared with other frames specifically goes against why Roar would be a useful ability on Xaku... 

Xaku's kit already has enough damage (at 200%) to go farther than most other frames. IMO they benefit more from utility/CC abilities. Spectrorage is my BIS option though because the CC is solid AND it can generate a ton of energy (which Xaku needs despite having really good timer efficiency). 

 

I guess I see Roar as a "I LIEK DAMEGE!!" option rather than one that is needed or even useful given Xaku's kit. If you like Roar, power to you, but it is certainly not the best option IMO.

 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

2 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Spectrorage, Blood Altar, Shooting Gallery, Silence, Pillage, Breach Surge, Dispensary, Ensnare, Elemental Ward and Resonator are all abilities I would pick before Roar. And if I'm really hard up for extra ability damage I'd put Empower on Xaku (since this will affect Gaze while Roar does not and is 1/3 the energy cost), generally opening up build flexibility a bit.

While I do agree Roar is not needed for Xaku, I very much question some of these “alternatives.” 
 Of the list you gave, I only really agree with Shooting gallery, pillage, breach and dispensery. Ensnare isnt bad but Id argue Larva is better, especially because of how more effect it is over ensnare when it comes to move large enemy groups to a single spot quickly. Shooting gallery gives a 25% gun buff, which is still weaker then the nerfed roar (which is a 30% buff to all damage.) Pillage is great, but honestly i feel like it has part of its usefulness diminished because of gaze. They can work together, but they can at times be at odds. Breach is nice, and you cab get rapid procs, so no qualms there. Dispensary is also just a nice energy buff. Looking back, Resonator is such a strong ability that I can see its purpose, but I fail to see the point of Spectrorage, EW or Blood altar. Spectro is just a meh ability over all, and BA and EW feel less effective because of xaku already has low hp/armor, so % benefits arent as effective. 

2 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Xaku's abilities do not need buffed damage... Once you get to the magic 200% ability strength Xaku can scale their damage pretty much until the maximum enemy levels with Gaze (roar does not increase the armor strip from Gaze). Enemies with no shields/armor coupled with the scaling damage of Lohk makes building more strength redundant. Your comment about Xaku's relationship to Roar compared with other frames specifically goes against why Roar would be a useful ability on Xaku... 
 

I think their argument was simply “more damage is better” which isnt wrong, but its also simple thinking. Personally I find larva to be the best combo as it lets me group up a large set of enemies in a Gaze ring with ease. 

2 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Xaku's kit already has enough damage (at 200%) to go farther than most other frames. IMO they benefit more from utility/CC abilities. Spectrorage is my BIS option though because the CC is solid AND it can generate a ton of energy (which Xaku needs despite having really good timer efficiency). 
 

Honestly I dont have energy issues with Xaku. Slightly above average duration and arcane energize leave me in a healthy energy state the whole round.