Making missions evolve around warframes and less about damage

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On the devstream you mentioned that you were going to make more mission types and they mission were going to be connected. One suggestion I have is to add game modes or unique missions that evolves around the warframes, give them a use in those missions and create unique gameplay scenarios. so, I’m going to suggest some game modes/mission types that will change the meta and some examples of warframes and their abilities that will excel in those missions;

 

·       This is pretty much your typical mission types except you can only kill the enemies if there are affected by cc abilities first.

Effective warframes:

Vauban - 1^st 2^nd 4^th

Hydroid - 1^st 2^nd 4^th

Nyx - 3^rd

These warframes have cc abilities that can cover a wide area and affect a lot of enemies which can make them kill enemies efficiently making them the top choice.

 

·       This is a mission where you use operators that can benefit from warframe abilities however you can only use operators and the only thing your chosen warframe can do in the mission is sprint can cast abilities that can affect operators.

Effective warframes:

Volt - 2^nd 3^rd

Wisp - 1^st

Harrow - 2^nd 3^rd 4^th

These warframes provide useful buffs or abilities that operators can use while in the mission from ranging from damage to survivability.

 

·       This mission is all about supporting each other, the more you support your allies the more bonuses you can receive.

Effective warframes:

Chroma - 2^nd 3^rd

Octavia - 3^rd 4^th

Barukk - 3^rd

These mission type encourages team support over playing for yourself and it works with what DE wants us to do and what this game is… to play as a team and to have a co-op experience.

 

·       A mission that tests your stealth capabilities where you are restricted to a bow, kunai type weapons and duel/daggers. The less weapons you are equipped with, the greater the reward/bonuses, this can either be played on a co-ordinated team or solo.

Effective warframes:

Ash – 1^st,2nd & 3rd

Banshee - 3rd

Ivara – all abilities

This gives a challenge to stealth gameplay that`s rewarding ether solo or in a team.

Below is a link that talks about some improvements to stealth gameplay.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1198397-stealth-revisit-improvements/

 

·       A mission where you and your allies have to survive a toxic environment and enemies attacking you while at the same time keeping the pod alive.

Effective warframes:

Trinity - 1^st 2^nd 3^rd 4^th

Oberon - 3^rd

Equinox - 3^rd 4^th

The healing/defensive frames that ppl don`t play as much will play a big role and gives you a reason to use them.

 

·       A mission where it tests your parkour skills, dodging obstacles and reach the end in the fasters time.

Effective warframes:

Volt - 2^nd

Gauss - 1^st

Zephyr - 1^st

These frames will be very efficient and allows you to combine parkour skills with abilities the give increase movement speed.

 

As for game modes here are two examples;

I have created a game mode caller Operation havoc where you play as the operators only where there are 8 missions where each one relies on each focus school`s unique abilities. Here is the post.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1023615-new-gametype-operation-havoc/

 

Here is one from a youtuber named Triburos that suggested a game mode called Tower Heist. If you want to know what happens in the mission, start video at 10:30, to get context watch the whole thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3m8OZqshuM

 

If DE start implementing mission where killing isn’t the top priority then there will be no need for endgame builds and for ppl to be obsessing over rivens or damage. So, DE you need to take this into consideration while you make more game modes.

[chaotea]

The problem is that alot of the suggestions mean that if you dont have particular warframes, or team with others who dont, you cant play the missions.

The already have missions where killing isnt top priority. Spy, Sabotage, Interception. None of these need kills. Certainly in steel path versions its better to just CC enemies until the end.

 

The game mode stuff is more useful though.

 

I did some concept ideas ages ago tied into a warframe.

Skip past the warframe part if your interested. I still like the idea of Train Robbery.

 

[SneakyErvin]

Too much group oriented. Things should be mostly group optional since we play a game without dedicated servers.

And stealth needs a rework and not just a mode added for frames with stealth. Stealth needs to be reworked into actual stealth gameplay and not just a "dur hur I hit this button!" "stealth". Something that everyone can utilize, while the stealth frames get some bonuses from their stealth skills. There used to be a time when Spy missions were fun, like before getting hands on frames like Loki, Ash, Ivara, Wukong and Octavia. Because you actually used stealth tactics in them. Any mission added with stealth frames in mind will already be utterly cheesed and rendered obsolete on day 1 due to the nature of stealth skills.

If anything they should add stealth missions where you cannot use frames with stealth abilities.

[Zeddypanda]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

like before getting hands on frames like Loki

I'd like to hear more about the time before closed beta when Loki was a starter frame.

[SneakyErvin]

5 minutes ago, Zeddypanda said:

I'd like to hear more about the time before closed beta when Loki was a starter frame.

I never had the chance to start with cheese. I learned my spy vaults with Frost Prime.

[TheMostFrench]

Quote

There used to be a time when Spy missions were fun, like before getting hands on frames like Loki, Ash, Ivara, Wukong and Octavia. Because you actually used stealth tactics in them. Any mission added with stealth frames in mind will already be utterly cheesed and rendered obsolete on day 1 due to the nature of stealth skills.

In regards to spy missions this is kind of solved by having different paths. There is almost always a path that allows a player to avoid enemies and security entirely, but it isn't always the fastest unless you know the path already.

 

On 2021-02-05 at 10:46 PM, SneakyErvin said:

And stealth needs a rework and not just a mode added for frames with stealth. Stealth needs to be reworked into actual stealth gameplay and not just a "dur hur I hit this button!" "stealth". Something that everyone can utilize, while the stealth frames get some bonuses from their stealth skills.

There are already some stealth mechanics built into every frame - enemies can't hear your footsteps, I'm pretty sure they can't hear you even if you sprint or jump. This includes big frames like Grendel, Atlas and Rhino (except for his aoe landing). We can also make any gun silent with mods. Enemies will become alert, but not aggressive if they see friends get shot dead with a silent weapon.

Next thing is more about enemies, but I don't think they look up and down until they know where you are? They just walk around and look straight ahead. This means every warframe can take advantage of their parkour and wall latch to stay out of sight.

Although there are frames that have abilities for taking advantage of shadows and light (e.g Equinox and Mirage), darkness doesn't really apply to stealth right now - enemies can always see in the dark.

Loki style invisibility is just a simple on/off switch which is easy to implement and works everywhere. Ivara has a good system where she can grant allies invisibility with one projectile, and put enemies to sleep with another.

What kind of things would you like to see for stealth?

Things I'd like:
- I'd like a toggle to see the enemy cone of vision, so we can know exactly what they see.

- Have a better idea of enemy alertness. Right now enemies kind of grunt a bit if we get too close and bump them for example. Grineer and Corpus might put their guns up, but Infested enemies don't really behave any differently as far as I can tell.

- If there is an alarm we have no idea of how long until enemies will cool off and go back to a relaxed state, I think in most cases you just have to hack the alarm to make them go back to normal? But certain missions like survival rely on a constant state of enemies being fully alert to your position.

- Stealth kills from directions other than just behind. Right now we have to be directly behind enemies, but it would be great if we could do them from above, below, side, etc.

- Special stealth kills under the right circumstances: Like if we have a weapon in each hand we can stealth kill two enemies at the same time when they are standing close together.

- Hostage taking/choke holds: instead of stealth killing someone you can drag them to a locker or something and force them to open it for a better reward, or use an enemy to hack a console without needing a cipher (might also be an opportunity for some unique items - special cosmetic items that enemies keep).

 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

I`m glad to see that I'm not the only one that likes stealth and for it to get a revisit.

 

@TheMostFrench I do agree with some of what you said and that stealth needs a lookover. I have put up a post talking about some improvements stealth can have, take a look if your interested,

 

[SneakyErvin]

6 hours ago, TheMostFrench said:

In regards to spy missions this is kind of solved by having different paths. There is almost always a path that allows a player to avoid enemies and security entirely, but it isn't always the fastest unless you know the path already.

 

There are already some stealth mechanics built into every frame - enemies can't hear your footsteps, I'm pretty sure they can't hear you even if you sprint or jump. This includes big frames like Grendel, Atlas and Rhino (except for his aoe landing). We can also make any gun silent with mods. Enemies will become alert, but not aggressive if they see friends get shot dead with a silent weapon.

Next thing is more about enemies, but I don't think they look up and down until they know where you are? They just walk around and look straight ahead. This means every warframe can take advantage of their parkour and wall latch to stay out of sight.

Although there are frames that have abilities for taking advantage of shadows and light (e.g Equinox and Mirage), darkness doesn't really apply to stealth right now - enemies can always see in the dark.

Loki style invisibility is just a simple on/off switch which is easy to implement and works everywhere. Ivara has a good system where she can grant allies invisibility with one projectile, and put enemies to sleep with another.

What kind of things would you like to see for stealth?

Things I'd like:
- I'd like a toggle to see the enemy cone of vision, so we can know exactly what they see.

- Have a better idea of enemy alertness. Right now enemies kind of grunt a bit if we get too close and bump them for example. Grineer and Corpus might put their guns up, but Infested enemies don't really behave any differently as far as I can tell.

- If there is an alarm we have no idea of how long until enemies will cool off and go back to a relaxed state, I think in most cases you just have to hack the alarm to make them go back to normal? But certain missions like survival rely on a constant state of enemies being fully alert to your position.

- Stealth kills from directions other than just behind. Right now we have to be directly behind enemies, but it would be great if we could do them from above, below, side, etc.

- Special stealth kills under the right circumstances: Like if we have a weapon in each hand we can stealth kill two enemies at the same time when they are standing close together.

- Hostage taking/choke holds: instead of stealth killing someone you can drag them to a locker or something and force them to open it for a better reward, or use an enemy to hack a console without needing a cipher (might also be an opportunity for some unique items - special cosmetic items that enemies keep).

 

I mostly want the actual stealth skills removed. When used they could instead reduce the range at which enemies can detect you instead of making you 100% invisible even if you sniff them in their face. Then ontop of that, add it so crouching further reduces chance to get detected. Cameras should not have their vision reduced, they should give us a reason to bring a silenced gun for spy missions for instance, and give us a reason to be aware when we do stealth kills. In addition to this they should make missions more rewarding if you complete them without alerting enemies, since it would no longer just be about being able to turn a skill on and cheese it.

More opportunities for enemies to notice corpses would be good too, maybe not full on alerting them, but making them more active and aware. Then when they've tweaked all the little things they could introduce missions with a heavy stealth focus since they wouldnt be rendered obsolete through cheese. Add in some perks on certain units that ignore crouch or skill based stealth bonuses, like the bailiff and similar things. Things that needs us to stay aware of our surroundings.

[PhiThagRaid]

On 2021-02-08 at 11:08 AM, TheMostFrench said:

Have a better idea of enemy alertness. Right now enemies kind of grunt a bit if we get too close and bump them for example. Grineer and Corpus might put their guns up, but Infested enemies don't really behave any differently as far as I can tell.

Is the current 3 stage system not enough?(I can't really think of more stages other than making it more dynamic switching between states) 

Just incase you do not know: You can see the stages with enemy radar. Empty triangle: unaware. Small triangle inside triangle: alert. Filled triangle: engaged.

On 2021-02-08 at 11:08 AM, TheMostFrench said:

Hostage taking/choke holds: instead of stealth killing someone you can drag them to a locker or something and force them to open it for a better reward, or use an enemy to hack a console without needing a cipher (might also be an opportunity for some unique items - special cosmetic items that enemies keep).

Sounds very slow paced compared to the rest of the game, but why not.

[TheMostFrench]

1 hour ago, PhiThagRaid said:

Just incase you do not know: You can see the stages with enemy radar. Empty triangle: unaware. Small triangle inside triangle: alert. Filled triangle: engaged.

I had no idea, that's an interesting detail. I'm not usually look at the minimap unless I need to know if something is above or below me.

1 hour ago, PhiThagRaid said:

Sounds very slow paced compared to the rest of the game

Yeah, in my mind its for those times where an enemy is actually standing right next to a console or locker and you basically shove their face into it or demand their input code. 'Drag them to a locker' was a bad way to describe it.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

 

I have come up with another game-mode where you play as the operator and you are with other operators and you have to search for six parts for your necromech, once you find them you have to repair it, get in it and annihilate the operators.

Let me explain how this works:

·       At the start operators can`t use any weapons or any focus school abilities except the way-bound passives.

·       Void dash is disabled.

·       When searching for the necromech parts it makes a sound when you’re near them.

·       At this time, you can also find three pickups in hidden areas where you can activate it from your gear wheel. One gives you the ability to void dash for 20 seconds, one makes you able to cast a decoy to where the person using the necromech can`t see the difference and a pickup that gives the necromech an explosive weapon for them to use for 20 seconds.

·       The parts are colour coded (red, orange, yellow, blue, green and purple)

·       You can pick up a necromech part of a colour you have picked up before.

·       You can’t use the mini map to find the parts however if you go near a necromech part you don`t need, it will be marked on the mini map for other players to find.

·       To repair it you use the mining tool.

·       If a person repairs and gets into the necromech everyone else that doesn’t find their parts yet will have a 20% movement speed increase for 10 seconds and the necromech parts will be shown on the mini map.

·       At this time operators will have their amps and focus school abilities unlocked to defend themselves form the necromechs.

·       Also at this point, operators can now attack each other with amps and void abilities. Operators won`t get downed but instead get knocked down with a slow knockdown recovery.

·       You have to destroy the necromech first then take out the operators and the operator that is taken out is out of the game and the one that`s left standing is the winner.

 

As you can tell based of my description, this game-mode is suited to be played in conclave.