Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack: Hotfix 29.10.6

[wirecard]

Pls fix Pet AI

Pls gib Link Mods and Pack Leader equivalents for Sentinels. Pls make em repairable so they wont be gone for the rest of the mission after they exceeded ther maximum of 3 deaths which happen way too fast

[room199]

5 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

Let's talk about a gigantic insult to players....and what this seems to be moving towards with every single new update.  Obviously with that introduction, my opinion is rather clear here.

 

So....the "unveiled" or "unidentified" stuff isn't showing up properly since the last update.  Yep, I used to see all four items in one shot...but now only see two.  To get the others I need to go into the mission results screen....but only if I haven't gone back to dry dock and the orbiter....because if I do all that data is gone in a puff of smoke.  Fine...another bug that's entirely new after 6 hotfixes in a week.  That speaks volumes to the garbage release state, but fine.

 

What I really want to say is that you can remove the Orphix mission type entirely.  It sucks, because it's no longer possible to solo and entirely impossible to recommend because the rewards blow.  Let me be clear on the math:

12 Orphix for one drop chance.

1.41% drop chance for any rotation C reward...and the rotations are A-A-B-C-A-A-B-C-etc... not A-A-B-C-C-C-into infinity.

This means that you have a 98.59% chance to not get the legendary arcane....and after 12 of the Orphix you might get a common drop.

If the spawn is every 90 seconds, you have a minimum of 90*12 or 1080 seconds.  That's one drop every 18 minutes.  If you are at 45 seconds a spawn it's 9 minutes.  Let's call it 10 minutes each.

If you were part of the luck 50%, you'd have the one desired arcane according to the following equation: 0.50 = 1-(1-0.0141)^x, or .5 = (1-0.0141)^x, or log(0.5)/log(1-0.0141) = x.  So we are clear, that's 48.8 rewards cycles....or because you can't get a partial it's 49.  If you then need 21, that means 0.5^21 or 0.0000477% of players will have 21 of the desired arcanes after 1029 rewards cycles.  If you're looking at time, that's 10290 minutes.....or 171.5 hours....or more than a full week of 24 hour days for significantly less that a single percentage of players have a full arcane.

This would be what we call DE giving us the finger, or peeing upon our head from on high and telling us it's the rain.  Either way, this game mode is dead on arrival.

 

 

 

Let me be really clear here, 6% rates for the Carmine Penta are frustrating, but it's at least bouyed by the ability to choose a mission type I like.  Ditto for the Athodai....because it's just a gun.  The Sentinel was frustrating....but at least it has the potential to make Railjack less frustrating.  The Arcanes are dead of arrival.  They're worse than the Deimos vaults, and you can literally grind those for 8 straight hours without ever getting a damaged mech weapon component.

 

Really DE?  I'd ask if you can do better, but at this point I'm done ever assuming that the next update is going to be anything short of a steaming turd.  Half digested, smelling ripe, and always hiding a depressing surprise about how much grind there is to make any significant content last much longer than it will be enjoyable.  Hopefully the Tempestarii can at least introduce a reason that Railjack is good for anything other than being forced to be engaged with for core features in other game modes.

 

 

 

 

My only sunshine is that I can grind more that 512 intrinsics despite the locked rank 10 for command.  And with this said, I assume that "oversight" will be patched out of the next update so there's literally no reason to engage with this game mode after the miserable RNG drop system has finally given us what we actually wanted...after a few dozen negligible endo drops to make up for the stupid high mod cost conversion and forma sink required to address the systems that a year ago were "impossible."

Thank you m_o_d for supporting with real numbers what many are saying all along.

For basically every new update that is hyped up and touted by DE loudly as an ‘improvement’, they manage to sneak in changes that slow down progression and increase gaming time to reach the same goals.

Point: The refreshing thing about the original avionics grid system was that it did not have the tortuous time-consuming forma/relevelling grind system behind it. But now look, it’s conveniently been replaced by a forma-draining Plexus, because obviously it had was far too easy to progress and upgrade RJ so far.

A special kick in the teeth is reserved for those who spent many real-life hours upgrading their RJ under the old system, and now can spend many more real-life hours forma-ing and relevelling their grid to get back to where they were before. 

[Cap-Orian]

please fix veil proxima: investigate anomaly, tired of the mission objectives breaking and not being able to finish the mission. its been broken since last year

[-EN4SR-]

On 2021-03-26 at 1:46 AM, CA_Tomy_The_Kid said:

Please, I can´t hunt Kubrodons in Fortuna. I can´t see the lure in my wheel but I can see all the other animals' lure. And I've got it. Pls fix. thx

 

I have the same issue. I went to try get last Vallis Kubrodon tags I needed, but when I go to use it, it is not availible. Yet when I return to Fortuna to check my load out its there. Weird.

[iPathos]

On 2021-03-26 at 3:29 PM, ArchWu5 said:

I replied 3 times just because I'm ANGRY. Fix the bug!

That's a silly idea when you're talking to the devs, and it invites any moderators to come along and remove all three posts. Please think before acting on impulses.

[iPathos]

10 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

-snip-

Very glad to see both you and I share the exact same views on this update and its impact on RJ as a whole. I can't wait to see what is said or done in response, if anything as per their history of responses...

[master_of_destiny]

5 hours ago, room199 said:

Thank you m_o_d for supporting with real numbers what many are saying all along.

For basically every new update that is hyped up and touted by DE loudly as an ‘improvement’, they manage to sneak in changes that slow down progression and increase gaming time to reach the same goals.

Point: The refreshing thing about the original avionics grid system was that it did not have the tortuous time-consuming forma/relevelling grind system behind it. But now look, it’s conveniently been replaced by a forma-draining Plexus, because obviously it had was far too easy to progress and upgrade RJ so far.

A special kick in the teeth is reserved for those who spent many real-life hours upgrading their RJ under the old system, and now can spend many more real-life hours forma-ing and relevelling their grid to get back to where they were before. 

 

I agree and disagree.  I know that isn't an answer, but there is an alternative universe where this came out much better.

 

 

Let me explain.  Let's imagine that we kept the same structure that we have now (Plexus), and rebalanced the mods such that they were exactly as strong as before with exactly the same investment in drain.  Now you've got functionally no grand need for more forma...and realistically the decreased capacity cost is balanced out by having a larger but harder to nail down total cost.  Let me explain this, as that may be an obtuse way to describe things.  Before you spent dirac upgrading the slot, and dirac on each avionic.  Now you'd have to add the slot cost to each avionic, but because it would be lower than the current 15 and 16 drain mods it'd be much harder to pin down that increased cost and decreased choice.

 

Let's also pretend that DE did some balance checking.  I say this, because previously there were two things that mattered.  First, you needed powers for CC of the enemy waves, and second you needed an powerful artillery to avoid boarding actions.  Now the balance is so whacky that what you need is a constant engineer (to compensate for not having any resource capacity) and powerful turrets to address the enemies.  If this was going to be a full review and rebuild it'd have been nice to see the option to have powers or companions....but that apparently was testing that didn't need to be done.

 

With two changes we could be better off than before.  Namely, decreased mod cost without decreased effect, and enough counter-play to allow for unique builds.  It sounds immensely easy and idiotic of me to state this...and honestly it is.  DE already demonstrated they could rebalance and insult players with the rank 5 arcanes, their rework of weapons has dramatically shifted gameplay between guns and melee over the years, and every few months somebody from their team bangs on about how "required mods" are going to be a thing of the past.  Ironically thereafter they release new mods that are effectively impact status having a chance to cause bleed....so that's a promise that seems rather hollow.

 

 

Let me just say that this didn't have to be worse.  They did the drop math....and felt it was fine to make a game mode literally insulting to play.  They did the mod capacity cost math...and designed the system to require basic mods with huge capacity costs.  It's a rehash of the mistakes of Necramechs.  It's a rehash of the mistakes of basic frames (looking at you 8 years of trying to figure out why it'd de reasonable for exilus slots, pexilus slots, aura mods to add enough capacity in, and the whole kuva weapon and Mech forma progression systems).  

This is DE pushing the envelope of content because they think we're stupid.  Hopefully someday the loss of players is clear enough they understand otherwise....but I'm not holding my breath.  Especially not when DE opens a new forum to take bug feedback, announcing it on their old forum, because apparently that seems like a reasonable response from a rational thinker.  Or more appropriately a brain rotted by some flesh eating bacteria trying to make sense of the senseless.

[room199]

18 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

 

I agree and disagree.  I know that isn't an answer, but there is an alternative universe where this came out much better.

 

 

Let me explain.  Let's imagine that we kept the same structure that we have now (Plexus), and rebalanced the mods such that they were exactly as strong as before with exactly the same investment in drain.  Now you've got functionally no grand need for more forma...and realistically the decreased capacity cost is balanced out by having a larger but harder to nail down total cost.  Let me explain this, as that may be an obtuse way to describe things.  Before you spent dirac upgrading the slot, and dirac on each avionic.  Now you'd have to add the slot cost to each avionic, but because it would be lower than the current 15 and 16 drain mods it'd be much harder to pin down that increased cost and decreased choice.

 

Let's also pretend that DE did some balance checking.  I say this, because previously there were two things that mattered.  First, you needed powers for CC of the enemy waves, and second you needed an powerful artillery to avoid boarding actions.  Now the balance is so whacky that what you need is a constant engineer (to compensate for not having any resource capacity) and powerful turrets to address the enemies.  If this was going to be a full review and rebuild it'd have been nice to see the option to have powers or companions....but that apparently was testing that didn't need to be done.

 

With two changes we could be better off than before.  Namely, decreased mod cost without decreased effect, and enough counter-play to allow for unique builds.  It sounds immensely easy and idiotic of me to state this...and honestly it is.  DE already demonstrated they could rebalance and insult players with the rank 5 arcanes, their rework of weapons has dramatically shifted gameplay between guns and melee over the years, and every few months somebody from their team bangs on about how "required mods" are going to be a thing of the past.  Ironically thereafter they release new mods that are effectively impact status having a chance to cause bleed....so that's a promise that seems rather hollow.

 

 

Let me just say that this didn't have to be worse.  They did the drop math....and felt it was fine to make a game mode literally insulting to play.  They did the mod capacity cost math...and designed the system to require basic mods with huge capacity costs.  It's a rehash of the mistakes of Necramechs.  It's a rehash of the mistakes of basic frames (looking at you 8 years of trying to figure out why it'd de reasonable for exilus slots, pexilus slots, aura mods to add enough capacity in, and the whole kuva weapon and Mech forma progression systems).  

This is DE pushing the envelope of content because they think we're stupid.  Hopefully someday the loss of players is clear enough they understand otherwise....but I'm not holding my breath.  Especially not when DE opens a new forum to take bug feedback, announcing it on their old forum, because apparently that seems like a reasonable response from a rational thinker.  Or more appropriately a brain rotted by some flesh eating bacteria trying to make sense of the senseless.

Of course DE did a balance check when moving avionics from grid-based to Plexus-based system, in-line with their standard business model.

DE probably did not earn much from the old avionics grid which only needed dirac, but this was ok at the time, since the players gave them an exhaustive and free debug of the new game mode.

But now, you need to upgrade with endo, and with forma (bp farm, resource farm, crafting time), plus extra relevelling. Endo and forma are shared with all other upgrade systems in WF, further increasing overall grind time to compensate.

This is the point where we seriously start thinking about a few in-game market purchases to shorten the grind and get parts of our lives back again. Or so the idea.

The only thing I wonder is why on Earth they didn’t implement Plexus from the beginning. Instead they introduce an alternative grid system which works and the player base accepts, and then retroactively nerf it to hell, and then insist on insulting our intelligence by hard-selling it as an improvement we always wanted. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by room199

[master_of_destiny]

8 minutes ago, room199 said:

Of course DE did a balance check when moving avionics from grid-based to Plexus-based system, in-line with their standard business model.

DE probably did not earn much from the old avionics grid which only needed dirac, but this was ok at the time, since the players gave them an exhaustive and free debug of the new game mode.

But now, you need to upgrade with endo, and with forma (bp farm, resource farm, crafting time), plus extra relevelling. Endo and forma are shared with all other upgrade systems in WF, further increasing overall grind time to compensate.

This is the point where we seriously start thinking about a few in-game market purchases to shorten the grind and get parts of our lives back again. Or so the idea.

The only thing I wonder is why on Earth they didn’t implement Plexus from the beginning. Instead they introduce an alternative grid system which works and the player base accepts, and then retroactively nerf it to hell, and then insist on insulting our intelligence by hard-selling it as an improvement we always wanted. 

-Old man voice-

Are you really sure on that one?

(this bit is being done for a laugh....because it seems like you need one and I definitely could use one)

 

I'll explain my reservations.  On day one after the mechs launched they had 30 capacity, and 12 slots.  Bump that up to 60 with a reactor, and you've got 5 capacity per slot.  That's pretty basic math.  Now add it forma.  This means 10 drain per mod is the maximum they could cost.  It also means if you pepper in a few lesser drain mods, you could have a few higher drain mods to compensate,  Great.  

Release state was such that even with every single slot having a forma, you couldn't equip a mod in all of them.  That is fully formad, with the lowest possible cost mods.

It took a rework, with 20 additional capacity to actually have working mechs.

 

 

Why do I suspect the same about Railjack?  What are the primary changes that were announced?  Well, the intrinsics were getting reworked....and all of the capacity boosts were disappearing.  The result is that you absolutely need to maximize damage from any finite source...meaning that artillery and turret damage is a key focus.  Likewise, powers are going to eat a huge nerf.  Goody...the one bit now running off of your warframe pool, without capacity limits, are less effective.  

What did we learn day one?  The most costly mods were now turret base damage, artillery base damage, turret projectile speed and range, and turret critical chance.  Hmmm.....looks like all of the required things.  These are also all V polarities....so starting off with a V, -, and D is pretty insulting.  Of goody....at least we can have an aura like mod associated....that largely defines secondary play.  You get to decide whether you want suicide by archwing buffs, better base stats, better response to hazards, or.... you know I honestly can't remember the last one.

 

So, 8 slots in the new Plexus, with 67 capacity.  That's 8 and change drain for mods that we can actually support.  Damages are 16.  Critical is 11 and 15.  Turret velocity is 15.  Joy.  That means that because of the game balance (focus on turrets), we no longer get to choose what to focus on.  Hmm....  Wasn't the tag line from DE that player choice mattered?  I'm seeing 5 forced mods, and 2 polarized slots that don't match the forced mods....  5+2=7, 8-7=1, If the math here is right that means I can make a grand total of two decisions on my Railjack...assuming that I'm not constrained by grind or resources.  One mod and an aura...which really isn't a lot of choice when you consider that you're functionally modding the plexus to be both your warframe and gun...  My balance issue should be apparent here, it's not the Plexus that is a problem.  The problem is cost and required mechanics...with the new mods much more expensive and devoid of choice.

 

Oh, but they had a post developer stream event once where you could earn an aura forma and forma for 24 hours.  That means 74 capacity and 9 drain per slot...which still means extra forma are required....sigh....

 

 

 

Hopefully I've explained myself, but let me put this simply.  DE failed to balance with math.  They failed to accommodate for the railjack being both frame and gun.  They failed to make the battle and support powers matter...because you are either an idiot or out of resources if you don't max out these mods given they have no influence on capacity.  They've topped this failure stew with a lack of compelling rewards, because eventually you'll discover that none of your choices matter as there is an optimized path that also effectively penalizes you for anything else.

None of this had to be.  While I appreciate your anger in stating the obvious that DE is searching for a resources sink, I don't think that's fair or the entire picture.  This reeks of failure by forcing something out the door, and is supported by the insane patch quantity.  You might disagree, and that's fine.  That being said, I don't believe "DE greed" is the core problem.  I think it's the incompetence of releasing too early, poor testing, past successes blinding them to current failures, and a melange of bruised egos that finally have to answer to an ever more frustrated fan base...that may be making some choices out of spite because "we don't see the artistic genius in the decisions made."  

 

 

 

As an aside, if I have to swallow coffee it's 90% milk, 9% coffee, and 1% sweetener.  I like black licorice.  I like my spaghetti sauce chunky, hate pumpkin flavored everything (though some things are good with it) in October, and wouldn't be sad to see truffle flavored anything be ejected from the planet and into the sun.  I say these things to frame my opinions, and awareness that I play games for something as intangible and ineffable as "fun."  It's something I cannot define, and it's what DE needs to balance against grind to be profitable.  So we are clear, 20+ minutes to have a single digit percentage chance at things will never be fun.  Despite that, it's this game...and the momentum of having played for years is only going to smooth over so many gigantic grinds for something like the Braton Vandal....a multiple month grind that was power leveled and sold immediately because it was utter garbage.

[room199]

Maybe, maybe not, says gramps.

All I know is that over the past few years the game has got consistently grindier, with diminishing returns, with every major update. Either new content was created with ridiculously unappealing  reward pools (nechramechs), or existing content was nerfed to drastically increase game time per reward (arcanes).

As to why this is, part of it is certainly down to arrogant ivory tower devs not bothering to get to know their own game (self-stagger, melee 2.9999).

And then you can follow the money. After being on the road for 8+ years with a large enough player base to keep it going, the focus of a company moves away from spending adequate development time to make a refreshing game with rewarding, bug-free content, towards saving costs and maximising profits with the large player base you have. As long as the investors shout for maximum returns every quarter, updates like the new RJ will stay the norm. 

Edited March 28, 2021 by room199

[UUDDLRLRBA_START]

On 2021-03-25 at 8:25 PM, Slayer-. said:

 

That was a thing in Scarlet Spear, I also sometimes got them on the ship during an Anomaly not sure if that was a bug though.

Has to be a bug - no splinters with the anomaly mission atm iirc

[Brynslustafir]

For the love of god just let me host my own railjack missions