Step aside from HORDE paradigm

[Scar.brother.help.me]

This is a request to DE to try at least once and make an exception from your "horde-" vision and make at least one mission just to try if it works: 10 times less enemies, 10 times more HP. And let them stay far enough from each other.

 

In my opinion it should make aoe weapons and abilities less appealing and single target weapons more. Because right now I just see no point in using them, aim, when you can just nuke the crowd with saryn or Brama, Ignis (whatever is best to deal with paper crowds) . At least there would be a reason to shake off dust from shotguns, classic bows and such.

 

[Scar.brother.help.me]

And if it works, you can try to mix other missions. Something like:

Wave 1 - A horde

Wave 2 - A few tough enemies like Nox with HP multipliers, may be with some new abilities

Wave 3 - another horde

Wave 4 - a few tough enemies again (when a few - even Nullifiers are ok)

Wave 5 - lich-like miniboss 

[DrivaMain]

So basically a boss rush game mode? Your idea is almost like that.

[Leqesai]

I agree that it would be nice to see a slower gameplay alternative. Though I'm not really sure your idea is what I'd go with.

Personally I would like to see a capture type mission that functions similar to Spy. Insofar as setting off an alarm would cause a timer for mission failure to occur, and obstacles that are specifically designed to force stealth gameplay (laser grids, sensor drones etc.). There are far too few stealth options in Warframe and it would be nice to have some alternatives to Spy. Especially since Spy missions are essentially non stealth missions with a tiny stealth segment. Same goes for Rescue. The stealth segment of Rescue is tiny and it is almost always easier to just nuke the map instead of clearing it with stealth.

[Zeddypanda]

Perhaps you'd enjoy railjack extermination? Even further to the extreme is Index and Rathuum. I find plinking at a few bullet sponges tedious, myself.

[Kainosh]

1 hour ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

his is a request to DE to try at least once and make an exception from your "horde-" vision and make at least one mission just to try if it works: 10 times less enemies, 10 times more HP. And let them stay far enough from each other.

I support.

Extermination is extremely dull mode. Very outdated. Needs something more to it.   

Current "procedural generation" is too simple.  It just slaps some tiles together, and then spawns totally random enemies. 

 

 Extermination is linear, so it can be separated into "stages", with specific enemy sets each (instead of random).  That is to ensure maximum unit compatibility for increased difficulty. 

Hell, tiles can even have a very specific enemy type attached to them.  

• Large room? Spawn snipers and add perches for them. Let them teleport from perch to perch.  
• Small room? Spawn horde of smaller enemies buffed by a support unit.
• Tunnel? Barricade it with blunts and shields, and add some flamethrowers and heavy machine guns there. Make it aoe proof.

 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

3 hours ago, Kainosh said:

y specific enemy type attached to them.  

• Large room? Spawn snipers and add perches for them. Let them teleport from perch to perch.  
• Small room? Spawn horde of smaller enemies buffed by a support unit.
• Tunnel? Barricade it with blunts and shields, and add some flamethrowers and heavy machine guns there. Make it aoe proof.

 

interesting idea - iirc outriders does something like this where the map & enemy type are somewhat aligned. (animals vs intelligent with open spaces vs lots of cover)

of course in WF, if you blitz past a group of enemies without killing them, it doesn't spawn new ones in front of you, it magically teleports the ones you skipped past.  So you could run past the large room into a small room to force the snipers out of their perches into a small killbox for example.  There are no quick fixes to WF's issues lol.

[Kainosh]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)Tucker D Dawg said:

outriders does something like this

Many games do this. Even very old ones. From platformers to fps.

6 hours ago, (XBOX)Tucker D Dawg said:

So you could run past the large room into a small room to force the snipers out of their perches into a small killbox for example.

No.  You missed the part about "stages".   Next room is locked until you kill everything.    This also prevents getting to extraction with "84/100".

Enemies don't teleport anymore. Otherwise its pointless.....and will just end up with lots of glitches and broken AI.

[StyxRiver]

its a good idea actually, giving some changes to some mission types could be cool. i posted a thread about some of my ideas. lemme know what you think since the Stronger Extermination could be implemented there.

 

 

[Scar.brother.help.me]

I like your ideas, but I think I wasn't clear enough with my main point WHY I wish DE to try it.

20 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

In my opinion it should make aoe weapons and abilities less appealing and single target weapons more.

 

We have so many guns in this game but since this is a horde shooter and absolute most of the gameplay we get crowds and crowds of running/standing close weak enemies - this is no surprise that AOE damage is the most effective. Of course you can take some Dread on a mission and it may be fun for 30 of the 200 needed kills, but if you farm something - you naturally are going to pick the most effective tool after a while which is AoE. But when enemies are very beefy and stand far from each other - then you lose the point of using AoE and have a reason to try some powerful shotgun, sniper, classic bows, pistols, assault rifles and so on. 

[Scar.brother.help.me]

18 hours ago, Zeddypanda said:

Perhaps you'd enjoy railjack extermination? Even further to the extreme is Index and Rathuum. I find plinking at a few bullet sponges tedious, myself.

Haven't tried the new railjack much yet.

Index is the same horde thing with drones, aoe weps kill the drones and it goes the same.

Rathuum is a random one shot unballanced thing, no fun there and no reason to play, it used to be the main sourse of Endo farm and I am very glad that those days are gone and I don't have to go there anymore.

These are far from what I mean.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

Let's discuss it more. Once again - Extermination is almost a random choice. The point is to get a bit away from HORDE-SHOOTING where AOE damage is the most appealing damage to more single target damage weapons. If we have at least some nodes worth farming and there are few standalone but very spongy enemies - we can finally use and benefit from the biggest chunk of our arsenal: bows, snipers, shotguns, rifles, pistols, beam weapons (single target), hell, even melees won't need much range if there are mostly single targets instead of a fruit-ninja flow from every direction all the time. 

[ShortCat]

On 2021-04-10 at 10:09 AM, Scar.brother.help.me said:

This is a request to DE to try at least once and make an exception from your "horde-" vision and make at least one mission just to try if it works: 10 times less enemies, 10 times more HP. And let them stay far enough from each other.

Rathuum Arena?

[Zeddypanda]

I brought this up in a similar thread, but single target weapons aren't just a poor choice because of hordes, but also because warframe enemies are small and jittery. When fighting Kela I'll use my primary Gaze on her rather than my stronger secondary even though she's completely alone because she jumps all over the place and is tiny. Every single-target shot you miss with does 0 damage, and the difference in damage when you hit is simply not big enough unless you're some kinda competitive counter-striker.

So I'll add to your clause that enemies in this mode need to be 10 times bigger and not spastic bunnies.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

3 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Rathuum Arena?

No, not arena mode but regular missions like simple exterminate, just to try and see how it goes. And I Don't mean instead but as a choice to spice it up. Let's say something like a Steel Path variation. 

[Scar.brother.help.me]

3 hours ago, Zeddypanda said:

So I'll add to your clause that enemies in this mode need to be 10 times bigger and not spastic bunnies.

Yeah, may be some slow heavy units but with weak spots that need aiming and ignore AOE damage or resist it heavily (like Ignis "beam"). 

Nox is close to that idea. And he is one of my favorites in Warframe.

But there is one amalgam flying unit with a belt of weak spots on his body. He is that damn spastic bunny - a bad example of how to do it. 

[ShortCat]

7 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

No, not arena mode but regular missions like simple exterminate, just to try and see how it goes. And I Don't mean instead but as a choice to spice it up. Let's say something like a Steel Path variation. 

I perfectly understood your intention. What I ment is, you do not have to "see how it goes", because the type of encounters you are looking for are already in the game and you can  test it right now.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

On 2021-04-27 at 10:10 PM, ShortCat said:

I perfectly understood your intention. What I ment is, you do not have to "see how it goes", because the type of encounters you are looking for are already in the game and you can  test it right now.

In that case there is no need for explosives there, top pick is usually Kohm there. But what I mean saying "how it goes" is to check if players would like it in regulars type of missions to add more if they do. 

Nox is the best example so far but not beefy enough Thumper is something similar (would be nice if killing its weak points would slow its turn rate BTW).