It's time to nerf Wukong

[PublikDomain]

7 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Ammo mutation exists ,

Your recommendations are dead on arrival.

Just don't allow it to be converted like Archgun ammo. Pretty simple fix.

[0_The_F00l]

Just now, PublikDomain said:

Just don't allow it to be converted like Archgun ammo. Pretty simple fix.

And that is the true fix which i myself have suggested multiple times.

There will need some additional changes for hybrid weapons (with alt fire explosives and such) maybe different ammo pools for different fire modes ?

Or maybe significant ammo cost per explosion.

The tenet tetra does it well , a large ammo pool but the explosion eats ammo pretty fast.

[Tyreaus]

It seems even simpler to have ammo mutation mods not work on select AoE weapons that may get a nerf. We have a similar thing with Firestorm, where there's a handful of weapons - like Shedu and Komorex - where it doesn't work. Seems more straightforward to leverage what we've got than introduce a whole new ammo type and, potentially, dilute ammo drop pools to the detriment of other weapons.

As for what I'd like to see, besides my typical espousing of changes to some of the game's content to make AoE not so necessary in the first place: non-AoE alternate modes for explosive weapons would be really solid. EDIT: Ideally with changes to ammo economy, even giving the alt fires a separate ammo counter. The problem with solutions like this is that the weapon's usefulness lies entirely on the AoE side. If that AoE is too powerful and gets taken down, that could compromise using the weapon altogether. If it's got a non-explosive alternate, tanking the AoE side isn't such a death knell. It retains some usability, even if not ideal.

[Gree26]

21 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Ammo mutation exists ,

Your recommendations are dead on arrival.

Yes don’t allow them to use that. I forgot to mention that

[Venus-Venera]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb Gree26:

I like AOE weapons and think they are good for the game if implemented correctly. One think I don’t want to see is damage reduction on AOE weapons. Just imagine having to stand there and shoot into a crowd over and over again with the tonkor. Not my idea of fun. 
what I would like to see is an introduction of a new ammo type. AOE weapons are in able to benefit from universal ammo and can only get ammo from this ammo type. Make that new ammo drop rare and enemies don’t drop it if killed by an AOE weapon. Also the ammo carry amount for AOE weapons would be greatly reduced. They could even buff AOE weapons if the ammo is rare enough. 
this way it sort of forces you to use a secondary weapon or melee to farm that ammo. 
Anyway, tell me what you guys think and what you would like to see as it seems that AOE weapons are in the crosshairs for a nerf. 
 

EDIT: I forgot to mention that ammo mutation should be disabled for them

people, there are many posts about it! what's that supposed to mean??? can't you write there or what? there are always the same posts in feedback!

[PublikDomain]

11 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

And that is the true fix which i myself have suggested multiple times.

There will need some additional changes for hybrid weapons (with alt fire explosives and such) maybe different ammo pools for different fire modes ?

Or maybe significant ammo cost per explosion.

The tenet tetra does it well , a large ammo pool but the explosion eats ammo pretty fast.

An overhaul of ammo in general might be good. Something like in Half Life or DOOM could be good where you always have an ammo pool for each type of ammo, and Ammo Conversion just converts ammo from unused pools into the active pool. Then weapons could draw from separate pools for different firing modes like you mention, and there could be non-convertible Ammo pools like Heavy Weapon and Explosive.

[Gree26]

2 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

people, there are many posts about it! what's that supposed to mean??? can't you write there or what? there are always the same posts in feedback!

You don’t need to engage, keep scrolling if you don’t want to. Don’t be so toxic 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Tyreaus:

It seems even simpler to have ammo mutation mods not work on select AoE weapons that may get a nerf. We have a similar thing with Firestorm, where there's a handful of weapons - like Shedu and Komorex - where it doesn't work. Seems more straightforward to leverage what we've got than introduce a whole new ammo type and, potentially, dilute ammo drop pools to the detriment of other weapons.

As for what I'd like to see, besides my typical espousing of changes to some of the game's content to make AoE not so necessary in the first place: non-AoE alternate modes for explosive weapons would be really solid. EDIT: Ideally with changes to ammo economy, even giving the alt fires a separate ammo counter. The problem with solutions like this is that the weapon's usefulness lies entirely on the AoE side. If that AoE is too powerful and gets taken down, that could compromise using the weapon altogether. If it's got a non-explosive alternate, tanking the AoE side isn't such a death knell. It retains some usability, even if not ideal.

yes, sure. lenz is already unplayable and pointless. and even with bramma and sp arcane + carrier i have to keep looking for ammo in pug group!
what people write here.....

[Gree26]

1 minute ago, Venus-Venera said:

yes, sure. lenz is already unplayable and pointless. and even with bramma and sp arcane + carrier i have to keep looking for ammo in pug group!
what people write here.....

Well whether a weapon is good or not is not the point. Weapons can be buffed 

[Tyreaus]

4 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

yes, sure. lenz is already unplayable and pointless. and even with bramma and sp arcane + carrier i have to keep looking for ammo in pug group!
what people write here.....

And the point of an alternate form with a separate ammo counter is that those sorts of weapons would have an alternate mode with a much bigger ammo pool (like 72+ regular arrows for the Bramma). That way, rather than not using it at all when "running around looking for ammo", you can at least use some variant of it while rummaging and swap back as needed. Also promoting some ammo conservation instead of using a rarer, explosive munition on a single target - if that suits your fancy.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Gree26:

You don’t need to engage, keep scrolling if you don’t want to. Don’t be so toxic 

and that's what it's about. As soon as I tell the truth, I am immediately attacked and provoked with lies. How am I supposed to have a civil discussion here?
If you're okay with the forum being spammed with the same posts, that's up to you.

[Gree26]

1 minute ago, Venus-Venera said:

and that's what it's about. As soon as I tell the truth, I am immediately attacked and provoked with lies. How am I supposed to have a civil discussion here?
If you're okay with the forum being spammed with the same posts, that's up to you.

What? 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

What I would like to see to fix AOE, is stealth implementation to gaslight players who choose to use AOE weapons. 

Patch 1. Each time an AOE weapon is fired, the sound effect will be changed. Very subtle at first, but a high pitched shrieking sound should play. 95 percent of players shouldn't be able to hear this at first, but over time, each patch should replace the sound of normal explosions, with weird, annoying, shrill, prolonged screeching. Sort of like the noise, Jim Carry's character makes in Dumb and Dumber. Referred in movie, as the "Worlds Most Annoying Sound". Eventually, this will subconsciously make no one but deaf players use AOE. 

Patch 2. Each time an AOE weapon is reloaded and fired, your Warframe will shrink in size, by an in game 2 inches. Unnoticeable at first, for most, but by the end of most Exterminate missions, your Wukong, Volt, Rhino, etc will now be 3 foot in game. Only height, they aren't shrinking like Titania. They are just as wide, but short now. This new height will be permanent unless you play Plat or use a Stug for the equivalent amount of kills. 

Patch 3. Bring back self damage, but not from the game, make it an IRL feature. Bramma and Zarr players run the risk of blowing up their computers, systems, consoles etc I guess this one isn't really a stealth solution. 

Patch 4. Peculiar Friendly Fire. New Mod, that allows friendly fire. New meta. Kill the other players who bother me meta. Embrace the Conclave. Now the whole game is Conclave. Give enemies the same weapons and mods. Now its a Battle Royale, where you can't tell the real players from the AI, but everyone is constantly dying all the time just like real life! 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

I think adding "launcher ammo" would be a good idea, provided that it cannot be bypassed by ammo mutation: Lenz would stand out as an option for people who want a decent AoE weapon with ammo mutation, whereas the other giant nuke weapons would have ammo problems to contend with. It needs to be done right, and it's not the only thing those weapons should receive, but it's definitely not a bad change.

[Tyreaus]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Patch 4. Peculiar Friendly Fire. New Mod, that allows friendly fire. New meta. Kill the other players who bother me meta. Embrace the Conclave. Now the whole game is Conclave.

Inexplicably, we see Teshin at the dry cleaners much more often. And it's always his pants. A strange, eldritch sight.

[Gree26]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

What I would like to see to fix AOE, is stealth implementation to gaslight players who choose to use AOE weapons. 

Patch 1. Each time an AOE weapon is fired, the sound effect will be changed. Very subtle at first, but a high pitched shrieking sound should play. 95 percent of players shouldn't be able to hear this at first, but over time, each patch should replace the sound of normal explosions, with weird, annoying, shrill, prolonged screeching. Sort of like the noise, Jim Carry's character makes in Dumb and Dumber. Referred in movie, as the "Worlds Most Annoying Sound". Eventually, this will subconsciously make no one but deaf players use AOE. 

Patch 2. Each time an AOE weapon is reloaded and fired, your Warframe will shrink in size, by an in game 2 inches. Unnoticeable at first, for most, but by the end of most Exterminate missions, your Wukong, Volt, Rhino, etc will now be 3 foot in game. Only height, they aren't shrinking like Titania. They are just as wide, but short now. This new height will be permanent unless you play Plat or use a Stug for the equivalent amount of kills. 

Patch 3. Bring back self damage, but not from the game, make it an IRL feature. Bramma and Zarr players run the risk of blowing up their computers, systems, consoles etc I guess this one isn't really a stealth solution. 

Patch 4. Peculiar Friendly Fire. New Mod, that allows friendly fire. New meta. Kill the other players who bother me meta. Embrace the Conclave. Now the whole game is Conclave. Give enemies the same weapons and mods. Now its a Battle Royale, where you can't tell the real players from the AI, but everyone is constantly dying all the time just like real life! 

Lol ok, let’s do this. I like it

[p_silveira]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Just don't allow it to be converted like Archgun ammo. Pretty simple fix.

Lavos's Transmutation Probe and Protea's Dispensary (which is also on Helminth and available for every WF btw) also trivializes this. The only way to avoid this is to make a new ammo type exclusively for AoE weapons and lock it out of the Ammo Mutation / Heavy Ammo systems.

[shut]

6 minutes ago, p_silveira said:

Lavos's Transmutation Probe and Protea's Dispensary (which is also on Helminth and available for every WF btw) also trivializes this. The only way to avoid this is to make a new ammo type exclusively for AoE weapons and lock it out of the Ammo Mutation / Heavy Ammo systems.

I mean... yeah. That's quite literally what we're all suggesting.

The whole point of this style of nerf (as opposed to reducing damage or radius) is to keep AoE weapons as powerful and satisfying as they are right now, but instead reduce how often the AoEs can be used. Allowing any form of spammable ammo recovery whatsoever would very obviously render all of this moot, which is why current ammo recovery methods should simply not work on the new AoE ammo.

[TheArmchairThinker]

- Kuva Bramma treatment : Get only 1 ammo on pick up

- Lowered reload speed

- Lower ammo reserve

- Lower gain from ammo mutation

- Lower critical chance and slightly lowered critical damage

Good enough for you?

[Gree26]

7 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

- Kuva Bramma treatment : Get only 1 ammo on pick up

- Lowered reload speed

- Lower ammo reserve

- Lower gain from ammo mutation

- Lower critical chance and slightly lowered critical damage

Good enough for you?

Personally, I don’t think that the Bramma treatment will resolve the issue of the AOE meta. Same with a slower reload speed or a slight nerf to damage. 
Nor do I think it is a particularly interesting fix. I did mention the lower ammo reserves but I think that ammo should depend on the weapon. If not, the meta will be forced into those single shot AOE weapons

[Venus-Venera]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb TheArmchairThinker:

- Kuva Bramma treatment : Get only 1 ammo on pick up

- Lowered reload speed

- Lower ammo reserve

- Lower gain from ammo mutation

- Lower critical chance and slightly lowered critical damage

Good enough for you?

- reduce playing time per week to a maximum of 2 hours with aoe weapon.
- While using bramma you lose 30 health per second.
- as long as you use bramma, you will always be the first to be focused by all enemies.
- as long as you use bramma, you will be attacked by the stalker even on the ship and after death, warframe cannot be used for a week.

so apparently the few contributors want it? the question is, who benefits from it. because they don't seem to be playing the game!

[Berzerkules]

Have fun making complaint threads about nuke frames or whatever meta fills the void after aoe takes a hit. 

[shut]

1 hour ago, Venus-Venera said:

and that's what it's about. As soon as I tell the truth, I am immediately attacked and provoked with lies. How am I supposed to have a civil discussion here?
If you're okay with the forum being spammed with the same posts, that's up to you.

3 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

- reduce playing time per week to a maximum of 2 hours with aoe weapon.
- While using bramma you lose 30 health per second.
- as long as you use bramma, you will always be the first to be focused by all enemies.
- as long as you use bramma, you will be attacked by the stalker even on the ship and after death, warframe cannot be used for a week.

so apparently the few contributors want it? the question is, who benefits from it. because they don't seem to be playing the game!

[Gree26]

1 minute ago, Berzerkules said:

Have fun making complaint threads about nuke frames or whatever meta fills the void after aoe takes a hit. 

This isn’t a complaint thread? I use the tonkor. I made this thread because I’m afraid the nerf will not be good or fun

[Venus-Venera]

Gerade eben schrieb Berzerkules:

Have fun making complaint threads about nuke frames or whatever meta fills the void after aoe takes a hit. 

that's how it is. now we always see the same weapons in the game. and later it will be the same FEW warframes.
anyone who writes such nonsense doesn't understand how the world works.