Hydroid rework idea

[CaptainSpear]

Hey, I was just playing around with a few friends and we came up with a potential hydroid rework while leveling stuff, and I wanted to submit it here before I put it in the warframe feedback channel properly so I can make a more concrete and definitive suggestion.

the idea came from the youtuber tiburos' idea of a grappler frame while he was discussing Grendel.

My idea of hydroid would be incorporating a "close-and-personal" fighting style that benefits hydroid's "pirate" theme, while retaining the crowd control aspect of his gear set. and that idea is 2 major skill changes, ones I think will benefit the character for the better, as well as just making him far more fun to play, and another major-ish change that I believe the community would agree with.

I think the best way to present this idea is just to list out the respective abilities for you all to look over and provide constructive criticism on. please understand, my goal, as well as yours, is to IMPROVE hydroid for the better, not simply say one version is better than the other, or to outright dismiss anything. please be respectful when offering advice or feedback, and please point out exactly what you feel needs improvement, change, or preservation. 

Before you read, Id just like to state: the way hydroid works, in my eyes, is that he achieves crowd control via knockdown or similar effects. if you don't agree, simply tell me. I'm open to ideas on how hydoid works.

 

• ABILITY 1: Tempest Barrage;  The same ability as before, but with a increased amount of projectiles .the amount of projectiles could be adjusted with either power strength or duration. this ability's use is for using knockback to stop any combatants from engaging you via knocking them down, pushing them, or possibly killing them. while its not a ability supposed to cause damage, it can provide a area with a decent amount of coverage for a time where hydroid or any teammate can move and attack ragdolled enemies. I also wanted to keep the helminth system intact so a change to hydroid wont effect other players who don't play as him, but still like his infusion skill.

 

• ABILITY 2: Harpoon;  Replacing the tidal surge ability, hydroid will throw a harpoon with a distance based on ability range, that- hit its a target (that should not be classified as super heavy, such as a infested behemoth, nox, etc. [or maybe it should?])  hydroid will utilize said enemy as a flail, dealing damage at medium to short range, slamming them into the ground up to 3 times if the ability is recasted repeatedly if the harpoon is still "tethered", dealing damage based on either enemy level or maximum enemy health, applying either knockdown or levitation on  area. this ability should be used as a larger group CC + attack, allowing teammates to close in and slaughter stragglers or still disrupted enemies. I chose to replace the tidal surge ability completely as it did not serve as a effective  CC skill if you didn't have a wall to crash into. its a good movement skill, but hydroid isn't about movement.

 

• ABILITY 3: Hook;  Replacing the undertow pool ability, hydroid manifests a hook and lunges forwards and grabs a enemy or enemies with a  semi circular swing of his hook. after obtaining a enemy or 3, hydroid throws them forward as a water-infused projectile, dealing damage based on enemy health or level. the projectile itself shall also provide the knockdown or knockback effect, possibly reducing enemy speed. this skill is about providing the grappler aspect in a far more direct form than the harpoon skill, as well as to play into Digital Extremes' "pirate" theme they love to have for hydroid, despite what some players think. speaking of his theme, as well to address the undertow ability....

 

• ABILITY 4: Tentacle Swarm;  Tap to spawn watery tentacles from all nearby surfaces to wreak havoc, as before, but in this version of the ability, after putting down a field of tentacles, while standing in a field, holding the cast key allows hydroid to BECOME the kraken, spawning more tentacles, and combining the previous undertow ability to target and drag (or smash) enemies manually with extra range for doing so, at the downside of either reduced movement or the inability to move, and the inability to obtain energy via orbs, Zenurik dash, or energy restores. As before, it should deal damage scaling off enemy health or level. as with the undertow ability, the player will not take damage as long as the ability is in effect. hold the cast key again to disable the kraken mode manually. Agree with me saying ultimates should feel like ULTIMATES. the undertow ability is unique by giving hydroid the ability to outright not take damage, and disable a medium to large group of enemies for a while, and to cause damage to them. however, its boring. simply standing around waiting to consume hapless enemies or slowly making your way to them is not exciting, at all. combining it with tentacle swarm however, would combine it with the kraken. most people identify hydroid not as a "pirate", but the "kraken", so why not feed into that, at least a little bit? besides, as a child, who hasn't pretended they were a sea monster in the bathtub when playing with their toys? there's also the game side of things, duration, strength, everything would be considered when preforming this ability to the fullest. for the player, its a high cost- high reward type of action the player can choose to take. as for the loss of movement and power generation? its a balancing act considering you dont take damage as the kraken and are able to deal damage. also if teammates are able to just feed you energy to the point where you can stay in the form indefinitely, it would become boring and a dominate strategy, allowing hydroid to simply occupy a large area permanently, controlling enemies with constant tentacle torture. lets not make another frame that just trivializes the game. cough, Octavia, cough.

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I'll admit the following response is copied from another thread, but if we're talking Hydroid, I want this:

Hydroid as a whole is in need of a rework, and I say this having used him more often than most care to, and using all his kit. Yareli has taken over as the better water warframe, as while Merulina is terrible her 3 and 4 seem pretty decent. this however, gives Hydroid the perfect opportunity to re-brand as the de-facto Sea Monster frame:

- new passive: treasure hunt: each kill by Hydroid has a chance to drop 50% extra credits/resources. he is themed on a pirate after all.

- Tempest Barrage has the augment as standard, the augment can be tweaked to add a lasting area of rainfall after the power wears off: the rainfall continues to corrode enemeis and acts as an area debuff.

- Tidal Surge replaced with Kraken Command: Hydroid targets where the player is aiming and the Sea Monster manifests form the ground there and devours any enemies in it's wake, with each enemy consumed increasing the Kraken's overall attacking power.

- Undertow now becomes an exalted mode: works as normal, but sprinting while in Undertow performs a Tidal Surge, which now has buffed damage and range. whilst in this mode, using Kraken Command causes the sea monster to emerge from Undertow and devour enemies, allowing the Kraken to fight defensively for you if you remain near an objective.

- Tentacle Swarm replaced with Kraken unleashed: Hydroids sea monster appears as an active companion on the battlefield and actively swims around devouring enemies and using three different types of tentacles: slashers, Binders and Harpooners; 

- Slasher tentacles have a blade-like bone tip that allows them to swing and cut through enemeis, dealing high slash damage.

- Binder tentacles will grab hold of an enemy keeping them in one place and crush them slowly, dealing impact damage over time. players can still damage enemeis being bound by the tentacles.

- Harpooners are ranged tentacles that fire bone spikes at distant targets, which deal puncture damage. useful for special enemy types that are immune to CC (bosses etc.)

to me, this version of Hydroid is a merciless beast-master who can debuff enemies en masse and then unleash the fury of a kraken to devastate the battlefield. don't you want to be a spacefaring Davy Jones, jamming to some sick organ music aboard your railjack as your kraken drags boarders to the abyssal depths of it's stomach and erupts into a stoprm of tentacles and hatred?  I know I do... here, enjoy this fantasy with me!:

Spoiler

 

 

[Lancars]

Tempest Barrage shouldn't be be what it is. It should be a large AOE blast. The cannon fires 5 times before it ends with pauses between shots to "reload" the cannon. It hits the spot with a large AOE water blast that makes enemies lifted status.

His tidal surge needs toeh Vial Rush treatment as in jumping can cancel it since atm you can't stop it. If you hit the ability to cancel it it just recasts and continues.

Undertow should be a dual cast in a way. Activate to be a puddle. Hold cast to a new location to teleport to the new location.

The tentacles from the swarm should have a small puddle at their location to shoot at to transfer damage to the ones they are holding and melee should strike them to transfer damage to what they are holding.

[(PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk]

Maybe I am just weird, but I still enjoy Hydroid as he is? 

 

I mean to be fair I spend 90% of my time farming relics and fissures. My preferred choices are Mobile Defense, Defense, and survival. So Hydroid is always a fun trip for me on these. I use him as a bit of a CC support for the team.

 

I build for range, duration, and efficiency. I treat him as a CC support for the team. I just hunker down and just render the entire room basically non-functional with his 1 and 4. Also my go to frame for fun resource farming. I have Nekros obviously, but he is just boring to me by comparison. 

[TheGuyver]

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/34-warframes/

[(PSN)thowed]

I just want him to create a pool of water with shark fins swimming around.  Any enemy that falls in the pool or in range when it's cast gets devoured by sharks.  Show them splashing, maybe see a little chomp action and the water turns red.

[ReddyDisco]

Change his undertow to be a modifer which adds "splash" damage to his weapons and teammates, a part of weapon damage in small aoe

[SenorClipClop]

The overall issue I see with these proposed changes is that all of the new abilities (or heavy changes to 2,3 and 4) would get in the way of normal weapons combat. If you're busy flailing an enemy around with 2, lining up a throw with 3 or becoming the kraken with 4, that's all time spent not using the weapons you brought along, weapons that likely deal a lot more damage. Currently the biggest gripe I see about Hydroid is that his 3 has you not doing anything, it's wasting time you could be using to shoot. And a big gripe about Warframes with exhalted weapons is that often their exhalteds don't scale as well as regular weapons. I feel like your proposed changes end up rolling both of these grievances into one and baking them into a Warframe.

These are certainly cool ideas, but imo they sound better suited to a game with different pacing and a different loadout system, like Guild Wars 2 or League of Legends.