Trinity Rework

[(PSN)Drew_Something]

Trinity was second prime frame I got and as someone who loves playing a supportive role in team games, she has always had a special place in my heart.  Unfortunately, she has kind of been left by the wayside with Warframes current playstyle and with so many ways now to heal, she has essentially become a one-trick-pony.

I have had an idea of a rework for Trinity written for almost two years now but forgot to share it and kind of forgot it as life happened.  That is until I found my notes when rummaging through some of my old stuff, so I thought I'd share it now so won't forget it again.

Note: My idea for her reworked first ability when I wrote it is essentially like the Helminth ability "Voracious Metastasis", what are the odds.  I honestly never really kept up with Helminth changes cause I felt like it was DE saying "Here, you fix it cause I don't want to"; though I do find it kind of funny it made into the game like this, lol.

Increase health from 300 to 600 at R30
Increase energy from 225 to 300 at R30

Passive: Can insta-revive every individual ally and companion once per mission each, and every revive after is 50% faster.  Can also use her 4 to insta-revive a downed ally/companion when aiming at them if there are 5 enemies within her 4s vicinity but costs 100% more energy.

1. Divine Mana: Press to use energy to heal self and bless allies within affinity radius with energy.  Hold to reverse, sacrificing health to gain energy and heal allies within affinity radius.  When used while her 3 is active, increase health and energy restored, and decrease health and energy used at 25% at base and 50% at max strength. *May have to lower, don't know the numbers*

2. Soul Well (formally Well of Life): When activated, killed enemies whom are linked with her 3 bursts into a fiery spring that knockdowns/staggers nearby enemies and causes damage over time.  The well then fires out their soul 1.5s after the initial burst as a projectile to the nearest enemy outside the wells radius and not linked, damaging and marking them as the next well for 10s.
The wells radius is 8m at base and increases with range mods, while its duration is 5s and does not increase with mods, and there can only be a maximum of 10 wells at a time.  The ability is toggleable, costing 0 energy when activated and 20 energy with each death of linked target.  If at any moment there are the maximum number of wells when a linked/marked enemy is killed, a new well will not appear, however the initial burst will still happen for cc.

This is also her new Helminth ability.  Works like normal but since other Warframes obviously don't have Link, it's no longer toggleable but target an enemy and tap to mark them.

3. Link: Pretty much stays the same but with a few tweaks.
Base duration changed from 12s to 20s.
Number of links increase by range mods.
Channeled damage is increased by a multiplier which scales with strength.
Adds 25% status reduction up to full immunity.
Innate "Abating Link" armour strip, scaling by strength with 100% armour strip at 200% strength.
Links to nearest enemies.  I just hate how there's always a strong enemy in front of me and the links are on some mob elsewhere.
New Abating Link mod *name pending*: Link prioritizes linking to allies over enemies with double Link's range and 50% effectiveness, from each linked ally three links extend to their nearest enemy instead of Trinity.  Trinity still retains Link's damage reduction and redirection like her allies but the redirection goes through her linked allies.

4. Blessing: When there are enemies within Trinity's aura (15m scales with range), her 4 absorbs their health and strips their shields/armour to add to her 4s multiplier for increased health and shields/overshields restored and armour for increased damage reduction respectively, and cleanses all statuses to all allies within her affinity radius.  Base Blessing with no enemies within her aura restores 50% of max health/shields with 50% damage reduction to all within affinity radius and adds 100 energy Regen over 10 seconds.  Enemies affected by her 3 contribute to her 4 even when outside of it's radius.  With high enough strength, she can potentially one-shot certain trash enemies up to level 50? 80???.  Any surviving enemies of course have that percentage of health/shields/armour removed. *I haven't actually written out a calculation though*

 

At the moment, I have no ideas for new augments for her; I'll probably think of something later though.

I hope y'all like the idea and you do please share, I'd really like DE to rework my girl Trinity.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

"My rework conveniently makes this frame ridiculous OP because I need help doing more AOE damage."

Good luck, I'm sure no one will have any issues with this.

[(PSN)Drew_Something]

22 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

"My rework conveniently makes this frame ridiculous OP because I need help doing more AOE damage."

Good luck, I'm sure no one will have any issues with this.

Dude, if you really think this is OP then you really have to play some other frames.  I've been playing Warframe for nearly five years now, I have every frame and know exactly what I'm doing, how to play and how things work.  Just trying to make Trinity more relevant as well as making her abilities more in synch with one another as a healer while giving her at least a little bit of cc with her 2.  As is, Trinity is literally only used for two things, and two things only, early player eidolon hunts and multi-hour long endurance runs for sustained healing if no one has a different way to heal.

[LillyRaccune]

I may not be on board with all of the purposed changes, but Trinity Prime could use some buffing up.

[(PSN)Drew_Something]

44 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

I may not be on board with all of the purposed changes, but Trinity Prime could use some buffing up.

What are some of the things you do and don't like?  I'm genuinely curious when I make these kinds of posts cause I want to know how to make them better.

[LillyRaccune]

51 minutes ago, (PSN)Drew_Something said:

What are some of the things you do and don't like?  I'm genuinely curious when I make these kinds of posts cause I want to know how to make them better.

Overall, I agree that she would benefit from a rework.

Yes to increased energy pool, no to increased health. No to free instant revive passive, yes to Bless granting free revive.

Yes to Divine Mana, no to health-for-energy ^{(because Garuda)}, yes to the synergy bonus with Link. No to Soul Well ^{(for various reasons, but also she should not have crowd control)}, yes to the on-kill synergy for enemies affected by both abilities. Yes to Link, period. No to Blessing ^{(because it should not do killing and should not be so similar to Sevagoth's Gloom)}.

In no way do I want to shoot down your ideas or tell you "you're wrong", because you are not wrong. I just have a fantasy Trinity in my brain, so I'm the crazy one!

Trin is frustrating because there are new frames that deal great damage, great crowd control, and great healing. Not to say other frames shouldn't be able to heal, but Trin should at least be able to do her job well...fantastically well, but she doesn't. Like your suggestions, some players want her to be more tanky, or more utility, or actually good for combat. I just want her to be a good healer.

I've been in TriCap squads with Trinity, and I have experienced two types of Trin. One is the Trin that spams Blessing and is still downed more than any other player. The other is the Trin that practically solos the whole eidolon hunt and does more than 85% of the total damage dealt. Just because some players are able to be awesome Trinities does not mean that her kit of abilities is in a great place. You put a lot of effort into designing this rework for her.

Keep up the good work!

[NinjaZeku]

One thing that'd make me play her SO much more would be Link getting turned into a "conditional drain" type,
i.e. it draining Energy only while linked to enemies, allowing Energy gains while active (whether linked up or not),
plus certainly not least, not being an ability you have to recast every friggin' TWELVE seconds at base, argh.

Like seriously, the base durations of Blessing and Link were ~okay back in the day when (Warframe was a different game and)
they gave 100% invincibility / allowed map nuking and all that fun stuff (RIP infinite range heals),
but nowadays any Frame shipping with those values would just get laughed at.

[(PSN)Drew_Something]

Okay, how about this?

12 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

Yes to increased energy pool, no to increased health. No to free instant revive passive, yes to Bless granting free revive.

Keep energy increased from 225 to 300 and health stays at 300.  Her passive is she revives 50% faster and can use her 4 to insta-revive downed allies/companions when their are 3 enemies within her 4s vicinity.

12 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

Yes to Divine Mana, no to health-for-energy ^{(because Garuda)}, yes to the synergy bonus with Link.

When I wrote this I was trying to combine her Well of Life and Energy Vampire into one ability.  I get the whole Garuda thing buuut I honestly can't come up with something else at the moment; maybe something will come to me later.  I'd personally like to keep it though, but I can see why not to.

12 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

No to Soul Well ^{(for various reasons, but also she should not have crowd control)}, yes to the on-kill synergy for enemies affected by both abilities.

I personally would like some kind of CC, even if we scale it down so it doesn't do a lot of damage.  I'm the kind of player that really enjoys hard hitting single-target weapons, so I was trying to come up with something to compliment that playstyle.  Even if we change this I'd definitely keep the synergy between the abilities.

But what specifically you don't like about it?  Is it just because you don't want her to have CC abilities or because you have something different in mind cause I got nothing?

12 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

Yes to Link, period.

I was thinking of something and I want input on this, since it now has innate armour strip and the number of links can be increased, it's changed from duration to drain over time with increased drain based on the number of links.  I think this would overall balance it better how you'd have to build for high strength for full armour strip or high range for massive coverage with the links.  What do ya think?

12 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

No to Blessing ^{(because it should not do killing and should not be so similar to Sevagoth's Gloom)}.

To be quite honest, I don't get what you mean by this.  I'm not trying to make Blessing a syphon, though granted I did make a little overboard.

So here's what I mean on what I want it to do.  Firstly I want to change her 4s aura to 5-8m and does not scale with range (After reading it, I don't want it to scale).

Trinity's Blessing has an aura when she initially casts it; it's not always there, just when she casts, it's not visible.

If there are no enemies within it, Blessing restores the health/shields of allies/companions within affinity radius by 50% of their max values and gives them 50% damage reduction.

If there are enemies within the casting aura, then a percentage value of their max health/shields/armour that scales with strength is added to Trinity's cast to increase it.  Exp. Not actual values: One Corpus is within the casting aura, Trinity with 200% strength casts Blessing, syphons off 50% of both his 100 health and 50 shields, and adds it to the initial Blessing values to heal an Excalibur who is at 15 health and 0 shields.  The initial Blessing does 50% of the max value, so it would have healed Excalibur's health to 165 and shields to 150 but now with the extra from that one Corpus unit, he is now healed to 215 health and 175 shields.  Now that Corpus unit is at 50 health and 25 shields.  Health is added to health, shields to shields, and armour strip to damage reduction.

I hope this clarifies what I'm trying to go for and personally I'd really want to keep this cause I think it's a cool mechanic for a healer type.  Having to strategize on the field and fly into the fray for the largest number of enemies for higher heals and a little damage.

[LillyRaccune]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Drew_Something said:

If there are no enemies within it, Blessing restores the health/shields of allies/companions within affinity radius by 50% of their max values and gives them 50% damage reduction.

If there are enemies within the casting aura, then a percentage value of their max health/shields/armour that scales with strength is added to Trinity's cast to increase it.  Exp. Not actual values: One Corpus is within the casting aura, Trinity with 200% strength casts Blessing, syphons off 50% of both his 100 health and 50 shields, and adds it to the initial Blessing values to heal an Excalibur who is at 15 health and 0 shields.  The initial Blessing does 50% of the max value, so it would have healed Excalibur's health to 165 and shields to 150 but now with the extra from that one Corpus unit, he is now healed to 215 health and 175 shields.  Now that Corpus unit is at 50 health and 25 shields.  Health is added to health, shields to shields, and armour strip to damage reduction.

I hope this clarifies what I'm trying to go for and personally I'd really want to keep this cause I think it's a cool mechanic for a healer type.  Having to strategize on the field and fly into the fray for the largest number of enemies for higher heals and a little damage.

That makes it easier for me to visualize. Thanks. I misunderstood before. Yes, I would like to see Bless the way you describe it.

About Soul Well, I would love for Trin to have CC abilities! I just think it might take away from her theme of healer, but that's just my thought.

All in all, I like your perspective on the Trin Rework.

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

Trinity was my second frame after Volt. Love playing healers but she is just so lack luster, she definately needs some touchups to bring her back into light. 

I use pillage on trinity for overshield and to reduce enemy armor and shields. It's basically a scaling damage boost if you think about it. You remove a % of armor or shield that you don't have to shoot through nor does your team. It's just great and removes status affects. So along with blessing and pillage, ev and link, she is still great fun, but shouldn't need a helminth injection just to be fun. 

[Yamazuki]

On 2021-08-24 at 7:14 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

"My rework conveniently makes this frame ridiculous OP because I need help doing more AOE damage."

Good luck, I'm sure no one will have any issues with this.

Other than the unnecessary aoe, which likely could be pitiful damage and mainly just ends up applying cc, there's nothing op about this. This could be released as a new Warframe and people would say it's garbage. The only thing people would value is the armor strip, and even then, people ignore armor strip [i.e nyx is "bad"] and people not using Shuriken via Helminth, as well as DE making enemies immune to armor strip.

Reminder that Wisp exists that heals, increases hp, has multiple aoe cc, fire rate+attack+move speed bonuses [all of the earlier applying to allies, twice on linked mods], high damage potential, stealth, mobility, and damage immunity that can be spammed. This is all without any of this added by requiring the use of augments and some is tied to low energy cost even if you go max str and she can even just go afk after dropping motes and contributes more than any other "support" does.

Both Trinity and Oberon are completely outclassed by Wisp other than in extremely specific situations that isn't even representative of the general game.

[Yuzuki-Prime]

1 hour ago, Yamazuki said:

Both Trinity and Oberon are completely outclassed by Wisp

I think the solution is to find where Wisp is weakest at her role and have Trin (or Oberon) master that roll.

For example, Wisp is great, but the one downside is 1) limited number of buff dots. 2) The amount of time it takes up to set up all the dots. While she can be effectively used in nearly any scenario, she definitely shines best in scenarios where it's possible to set up a camp for long periods.
As far as complaints go, it's very minor. But I think we can agree that it's also not the best.
So, in this case, Trinity should take up the roll of doing "healing and buffing on the go". If Blessing was cast immediately or at the very least, did not root her, that would already be a small, but significant step in the right direction.
Where Trin really falls flat is that all of her skills only do 1 job. Well of Life: Just for healing. Energy Vampire: Just for energy. Link: Just for Trin's defense really... Blessing: Mostly just for healing (but I guess the damage reduction is there...) With this pattern of design, Trinity would need 7 skills just to match Wisp, since Wisp basically has 3 skills rolled into 1.

So the second adjustment clearly is that Trinity needs her skills to serve more than a single function.
Well of Life: I don't know, pretty useless...
Energy Vampire: Should either apply buffs to allies or debuffs to enemies. Instead of pulsing from a single enemy, each pulse could jump enemy to enemy, also applying a knockdown or some sort of CC
Link: Should be applied to more than just Trinity.
Blessing: (If link is applied to other party members) remove the DR and make it apply some other useful buff.

_{wasn't there an old Warframe meme about nerfing Trinity?}

[Thordd]

Trinity has some truly standout abilities:

1.  Healing objectives and operatives with instant ease with her 4.

2.  Easy instant armor stripping, including (some) bosses with her mod augment.  VERY handy when needed.

Which is why I keep using for her for defense objectives especially in public runs where the others arrive with no healing abilities on the objective.

My point is that Trinity has real uses in the current version of Warframe though she is indeed a bit of a glass cannon.

I DO wish for more native energy capacity and I always Helminth her 1 to be something else because she does not 2 healing abilities.  I like the idea that she have the ability to insta-revive.

[NinjaZeku]

17 hours ago, Thordd said:

1.  Healing objectives [...] with instant ease with her 4.

500 Health worth of healing, spread out over 5 seconds. Cannot stack with other healing sources.

Not overly impressive in my book.

17 hours ago, Thordd said:

2.  Easy instant armor stripping, including (some) bosses with her mod augment.  VERY handy when needed.

Tied to an ability with abysmal base duration, and needing at least 223% Strength (plus a further Mod slot).

Trying to mod for this while keeping your other abilities in a "great" state is a somewhat nightmarish proposition.

[Yuzuki-Prime]

4 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

abysmal base duration

And modding for max duration makes Energy Vampire less effective since the time between pulses is increased a lot.

[NinjaZeku]

1 hour ago, Yuzuki-Prime said:

And modding for max duration makes Energy Vampire less effective since the time between pulses is increased a lot.

To be fair, that's not such a big deal (for the most part) since you get the full power of EV in one big pulse anyway if you simply kill the target.

I'd actually like it if EV got some burfs (buff + nerf combos), like ...

- increase the pulses' base range (maybe with a cap on the max range) / make them Affinity Range'd
- make the pulses scale with Duration like how Miasma was changed

Basically, remove the temptation of the "easy EV build" and make modding for a more balanced / versatile build more appealing / feasible.
... or at least, give builds with positive Duration a bonus to how much EV gives in total, so min Duration still works as-is, win-win.

Combined with a better Link (see my "conditional drain" suggestion above, or at worst just triple the base duration I guess)
and maybe also a small buff to Blessing (for the damage reduction, increased base duration would again be neat, double it at least)
plus of course a complete rework / replacement of the still pretty dang silly first ability, that just might be enough :D