Tried to play more Chroma again and realized (again) why i stopped playing him after his harsh nerf years ago.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, Gurpgork said:

The problem isn't that he's bad. It's that his primary selling point is survivability,

I don't use him in steel path for survivability. I use him for the 800% damage bonus I get from Vex Armor. 

[L3512]

27 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Hmm, non-survival 🤔 It’s not the best term to describe what I’m talking about, but you know that invincible build you would normally take to a level 100 fight?

Take not-that. Replace all those mods with…. hmm. Exilus and Augment.

Oh. Take an Umbral - nah, no Umbral. Take a Vigor. Maybe an Efficiency. Take Excalibur. Take a Rapid Resilience, because those slash procs suck.

 

That's all one part of the equation though.

Focus school, operator arcanes, pets, arcanes?

Also fed my Excalibur to helmith.

[(NSW)Greybones]

15 minutes ago, L3512 said:

 

That's all one part of the equation though.

Focus school, operator arcanes, pets, arcanes?

Also fed my Excalibur to helmith.

You gotta figure out at what point you’re asking yourself these questions. Sometimes it’s like “Well shoot, despite everything I’ve tried I simply can’t make it through”, and Warframe’s like “No sweat! Here are options. Some of them you’ll have to play a little more to get.”.

I won’t make it through that Lich defense without a Vigor and a Rapid Resilience, but I don’t need the Umbral mods or infinite energy, so I equip something else. If I don’t need the pet I equip something else. Maybe I’ll equip something else on the pet.

I’m not going to tell you how to build for a fight. That stuff earlier was an example that I use (I haven’t bothered with acquiring Arcanes on my PC account, so I can’t make suggestions for that), but that’s me. You’ll have your certain level that you can handle, and Warframe lets you customize it. If you want to overcharge your weapon, you can do that.

It’ll eat into that pie-graph of “Usefulness of equipment brought to mission”, where everything has a slice and your overtuned weapon will take the biggest piece, but you can absolutely do that if you want and the game will fold over for you. Alternatively, bring equipment that doesn’t step on the toes of the other things you brought and the game will give you a fight

edit: Outside of SP, I mean. Steel Path is, oof, different.

[(NSW)Greybones]

34 minutes ago, L3512 said:

 

That's all one part of the equation though.

Focus school, operator arcanes, pets, arcanes?

Also fed my Excalibur to helmith.

I just realised; did you sell off most of your equipment as Mastery Fodder?

[T-Shark69]

If your Chroma is dying to slash the simple solution is to equip mods/skills that deal with status effects.

[L3512]

4 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

You gotta figure out at what point you’re asking yourself these questions.

It's your challenge not mine, I'm not asking myself your questions because I don't know what your goal is.

 

4 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I just realised; did you sell off most of your equipment as Mastery Fodder?

I sell whatever I don't like, it's pretty simple.

Excalibur is still my most used frame, but Umbra is better.

At least it served one last last time being subsumed rather than sold for credits.

[(NSW)Greybones]

11 minutes ago, L3512 said:

It's your challenge not mine, I'm not asking myself your questions because I don't know what your goal is.

 

I sell whatever I don't like, it's pretty simple.

Excalibur is still my most used frame, but Umbra is better.

At least it served one last last time being subsumed rather than sold for credits.

They’re…. generic questions that anyone can ask. What questions do you ask yourself to figure out what happened when you get into a fight and fail?

Regarding selling; ah, that’s a little tougher to explore equipment options then. Shame, but I’m getting the feeling it’s not really a problem for you that everything can handle non-SP

[LillyRaccune]

5 hours ago, L3512 said:

I sell whatever I don't like, it's pretty simple.

Excalibur is still my most used frame, but Umbra is better.

[Birdframe_Prime]

12 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Now I'm willing to admit that I'm likely remembering this wrong, but didn't Vex Armor's damage buff also have broken math that made it double dip and boost the base damage and elemental damage of your weapons? I seem to remember it having broken, way-more-than-intended math on the damage boost side, too. 

Yeah, it did at one point, but that was more than a year and a half before the change to Vex's Armour buff (it was technically in the 3 month 'update window' after the frame was released, where DE review the frame they've released and patch out problems), and it also came with the notification on the patch notes that the Armour used broken math and to prepare for more updates to come that would apply the math to Armour better too.

The fact that they took so long between discovering broken math and fixing broken math is the neglectful thing with Chroma's survivability, and I definitely blame them for that.

[Leqesai]

34 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Yeah, it did at one point, but that was more than a year and a half before the change to Vex's Armour buff (it was technically in the 3 month 'update window' after the frame was released, where DE review the frame they've released and patch out problems), and it also came with the notification on the patch notes that the Armour used broken math and to prepare for more updates to come that would apply the math to Armour better too.

The fact that they took so long between discovering broken math and fixing broken math is the neglectful thing with Chroma's survivability, and I definitely blame them for that.

Just like what we are seeing with the sentinel weapons accepting set mods and adding to the set bonus.

They said it was not intended and only "fixed" deconstructor. All the other weapons are still "bugged"

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, Leqesai said:

They said it was not intended and only "fixed" deconstructor.

That one at least has the excuse of 'they were nerfing Melee and Deconstructor is the only Sentinel Melee that existed at the time'. It was also right before the Hounds came out, with three new 'robotic' melee weapons that would also take those mods, so... 'fixing' one and never talking about the other three was a fair strategy for nerfing.

[Leqesai]

4 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

That one at least has the excuse of 'they were nerfing Melee and Deconstructor is the only Sentinel Melee that existed at the time'. It was also right before the Hounds came out, with three new 'robotic' melee weapons that would also take those mods, so... 'fixing' one and never talking about the other three was a fair strategy for nerfing.

I get that, but it echoes the sentiment that DE are hugely incompetent when fixing issues. I mean... we've been using set mods on our sentinel weapons for years and the only time the find it appropriate to fix 'part' of the issue is when they have a new update coming out. I would never allow my staff to half-ass their work and it bugs me when I see a company many times larger than mine half-assing things making a ton more money, you know? They should have a team dedicated to fixing this stuff but instead they have idea-man after idea-man pushing big picture stuff far over fixing/balancing the game.

[L3512]

2 hours ago, Leqesai said:

we've been using set mods on our sentinel weapons for years and the only time the find it appropriate to fix 'part' of the issue is when they have a new update coming out.

It's worse than that though because they fixed set mods so that they would not double dip something like 2 years ago, now apparently those two years of gladiator set mods on deconstructor were "unintended".

 

15 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

They’re…. generic questions that anyone can ask. What questions do you ask yourself to figure out what happened when you get into a fight and fail?

Regarding selling; ah, that’s a little tougher to explore equipment options then. Shame, but I’m getting the feeling it’s not really a problem for you that everything can handle non-SP

Cause of failure is mostly straightforward, there really is not any serious questions that need answering, I have access to every frame, every augment, every pet, every arcane that makes a difference, every focus school, 100 something weapons. With something like a dozen weapons left in the game to use I'm coming really close to using every weapons that has been made, If I like a weapon I keep it regardless of it's stats, If I don't I sell it. 

You say things like "but you know that invincible build you would normally take to a level 100 fight? "

And the last mission 90-100 I played was a kuva mission trying to help a newbie friend get requiem relics, the build was a box breaking Xaku with pull on one that had just been forma'd so that was the only ability, a second forma'd stahlta and mastering a halikar wraith. So hardly an invincible build and yet it was not hard, the friend was using umbra and kept going down but they are MR9 I think. The only reason I know what the mission level was is because they said something like "oh level 100, this will be hard."

 

9 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

 

Glad someone found that funny, but I'm not going to keep duplicate frames or hundreds of weapons I don't like.

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 minute ago, L3512 said:

You say things like "but you know that invincible build you would normally take to a level 100 fight? "

And the last mission 90-100 I played was a kuva mission trying to help a newbie friend get requiem relics, the build was a box breaking Xaku with pull on one that had just been forma'd so that was the only ability, a second forma'd stahlta and mastering a halikar wraith. So hardly an invincible build and yet it was not hard, the friend was using umbra and kept going down but they are MR9 I think. The only reason I know what the mission level was is because they said something like "oh level 100, this will be hard."

Yeah I say things like “You know that invincible build”, because you’re taking equipment that makes a mission easy, no wonder it’s an easy mission. You act like the fact that your Xaku being a box breaker is the defining characteristic of a “Non OP build”, but it’s not. Why would it be? You’re still equipping the mods or whatever that makes the fight easy.

As far as I can tell, you’re thinking that if you start from the top and adjust your way down, that’s how you find out whether a mission is hard or not. If that’s the case, then you’re not starting from the bottom and seeing how far you can go before you need help; y’know, the logical place to start being the actual starting point.

[Leqesai]

9 minutes ago, L3512 said:

It's worse than that though because they fixed set mods so that they would not double dip something like 2 years ago, now apparently those two years of gladiator set mods on deconstructor were "unintended".

Good point!!

9 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Glad someone found that funny, but I'm not going to keep duplicate frames or hundreds of weapons I don't like.

Oh boy.. You do not want to see my arsenal then.

I have regular+prime of all frames and I also have numerous duplicate prime frames. I think I have... 6 hydroid primes and 2 of every prime that has had a prime access (plus random primes that they have given away). lol

[L3512]

20 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Yeah I say things like “You know that invincible build”, because you’re taking equipment that makes a mission easy, no wonder it’s an easy mission. You act like the fact that your Xaku being a box breaker is the defining characteristic of a “Non OP build”, but it’s not. Why would it be? You’re still equipping the mods or whatever that makes the fight easy.

Range mods, flow, efficiency and maybe vitality with only one ability that came from mag?

Yeah sounds like some some secret Op build.

 

39 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

As far as I can tell, you’re thinking that if you start from the top and adjust your way down, that’s how you find out whether a mission is hard or not. If that’s the case, then you’re not starting from the bottom and seeing how far you can go before you need help; y’know, the logical place to start being the actual starting point.

You know I'm 99% sure a no mod Khora or even Excalibur can handle SP interceptions solo, how much lower can you go?

I'm not one hundred percent sure what you trying to say.

 

19 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Oh boy.. You do not want to see my arsenal then.

I have regular+prime of all frames and I also have numerous duplicate prime frames. I think I have... 6 hydroid primes and 2 of every prime that has had a prime access (plus random primes that they have given away). lol

When wisp prime comes out that will be the only duplicate as normal wisp has umbra forma.

On the other hand the kuva zarr, hek, kraken, seer, karak, kohm, quartakk, tonker and shildeg as well as tenet spirex, detron and cycron are all on the chopping block after their formas. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

43 minutes ago, L3512 said:

You know I'm 99% sure a no mod Khora or even Excalibur can handle SP interceptions solo, how much lower can you go?

I'm not one hundred percent sure what you trying to say.

Maybe you should try it then. No mod Khora (since you scrapped your Excalibur), no mod weapons, no arcanes. Set yourself back to the start and see how far you get, then figure out what you need. Are you so afraid to not cheese something?

edit: You're being so cagey about this idea that I wouldn't be surprised if you tried to break the AI or use some exploit or hide in Operator Form or something instead of just fighting

double edit: Why stop at Khora? Take the entire Warframe roster that you have left and try it. Take them alongside your un-modded weapons into Steel Path at core power, not what you've used the Mod system to Modify to your personal preference. I would recommend starting with maybe a Lith Relic crack or Plague Star without the Hemocyte, but you know best

[L3512]

28 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Maybe you should try it then. No mod Khora (since you scrapped your Excalibur), no mod weapons, no arcanes. Set yourself back to the start and see how far you get, then figure out what you need. Are you so afraid to not cheese something?

edit: You're being so cagey about this idea that I wouldn't be surprised if you tried to break the AI or use some exploit or hide in Operator Form or something instead of just fighting

Cagey? Lol.

So after my amazing journey what will I get?

The accolades from a random internet person intent on their way or the highway and prone to throw out insults?

Ever consider people play how they want to rather than by this equip nothing idea? Your arguments are a mirror copy of meta folks.

[(NSW)Greybones]

7 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Cagey? Lol.

So after my amazing journey what will I get?

The accolades from a random internet person intent on their way or the highway and prone to throw out insults?

Ever consider people play how they want to rather than by this equip nothing idea? Your arguments are a mirror copy of meta folks.

Also, this idea that it's "Modless all the way" is exceptionally idiotic. I literally told you there are times where I need mods just to engage with the fight

[(NSW)Greybones]

11 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Cagey? Lol.

So after my amazing journey what will I get?

The accolades from a random internet person intent on their way or the highway and prone to throw out insults?

Ever consider people play how they want to rather than by this equip nothing idea? Your arguments are a mirror copy of meta folks.

Oooh, you've triggered me. My patience has run thin, talking to someone who plays the game on easy mode while saying the game is easy like it's a problem.

That's FINE! Build however you like! That's one of the great things about Warframe!

But don't sit there saying the game is objectively easy!

[L3512]

49 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

double edit: Why stop at Khora? Take the entire Warframe roster that you have left and try it. Take them alongside your un-modded weapons into Steel Path at core power, not what you've used the Mod system to Modify to your personal preference. I would recommend starting with maybe a Lith Relic crack or Plague Star without the Hemocyte, but you know best

The warframe wiki includes Umbra in the Excalibur entry so I have access to every frame more or less.

what does a Lith relic or plague star have to do with SP?

Speaking of the wiki, you ever use your in depth knowledge to contribute anything new there?

 

6 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

You are claiming the game is easy because you make it easy, and you are unwilling to let it show you how hard it can be. I don't give two #*!%s if you keep to it, but you need to stop making baseless accusations about difficulty when you don't know how it works

So basically I restrict what frames and abilities I can use, weapons and weapon classes, maybe two thirds of all the mods in the game as well as arcanes and operator.

All so I can say, "wow, so hard."

[(NSW)Greybones]

4 minutes ago, L3512 said:

So basically I restrict what frames and abilities I can use, weapons and weapon classes, maybe two thirds of all the mods in the game as well as arcanes and operator.

All so I can say, "wow, so hard."

Use whatever damn mod you want, combine them however damn way you want. Some combinations will be more powerful, but the most stupid thing I've heard on this forum is the idea of "Mandatory mods"; mods that are treated like some sort of set that must be equipped at all times together. Pull them apart and use them individually in different builds and they add additional build options. I'm not going into that level 100 mission with mod capacity leftover; I'm combining my options in a way that makes the fight more interesting for me.

Obviously you aren't interested in the same thing I am, and that's fine. But a different combination can make a harder fight while still using options that I played towards

[L3512]

6 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Oooh, you've triggered me. My patience has run thin, talking to someone who plays the game on easy mode while saying the game is easy like it's a problem.

That's FINE! Build however you like! That's one of the great things about Warframe!

But don't sit there saying the game is objectively easy!

At the start I said anything in the game can handle non SP, which I still stand by.

The "talking to someone who plays the game on easy mode while saying the game is easy like it's a problem." is a projection that you have come up with.

[(NSW)Greybones]

2 minutes ago, L3512 said:

At the start I said anything in the game can handle non SP, which I still stand by.

The "talking to someone who plays the game on easy mode while saying the game is easy like it's a problem." is a projection that you have come up with.

Well alright, I'll give you that. Most people I talk to have had a problem with how easy the game is, so yeah, I drew on that and concocted a projection, for which I apologize since it seems now that it's not a problem for you that the game is easy (which is fine if a player wants to take it chill).

[L3512]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Use whatever damn mod you want, combine them however damn way you want. Some combinations will be more powerful, but the most stupid thing I've heard on this forum is the idea of "Mandatory mods"; mods that are treated like some sort of set that must be equipped at all times together. Pull them apart and use them individually in different builds and they add additional build options. I'm not going into that level 100 mission with mod capacity leftover; I'm combining my options in a way that makes the fight more interesting for me

Well that's great but I made no mention of "mandatory mods".

Play however you want, mods don't make players better.