Remove reactant pickups, they only cause issues

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

I hear PC has higher enemy spawn rates, so this may not affect PC players as much, but us console players over here? HELP!!!

 

I know this had to have been said before but again, it has to go. What purpose do they serve other than ruining the chances of opening your relic when you have done everything right? I just got finished with a game on ps4 where we decided to camp in one room to get reactant. Why are we at 100% life support 20mins in, and still are unable to open our relics? For such an issue to be possible, Is it even necessary for these drops to be a feature in the first place? What enjoyment does the feature bring to the game that gives reason for it to exist?

Please, throw it into the abyss lol

[bad4youLT]

28 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

What purpose do they serve other than ruining the chances of opening your relic when you have done everything right?

 

The purpose is gameplay , opening relics is a side objective to the mission and the mission being the main objective .

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

1 hour ago, bad4youLT said:

 

The purpose is gameplay , opening relics is a side objective to the mission and the mission being the main objective .

Well everything in any type of game is part of gameplay, being apart of gameplay doesn't automatically make something good for the game. DE have removed numerous things from the game's gameplay as proof of this already (DE releases reworks for a reason you knw?). DE keeps things that serve purpose, and remove those that do not, in an effort to keep the game fun, the crucial characteristic that allows the game to exist and thrive.

So to rephrase my question, what purpose does it serve to make the gameplay enjoyable?

[krc473]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

hear PC has higher enemy spawn rates, so this may not affect PC players as much, but us console players over here

Surely if this was true DE would compensate console players with a higher drop chance for reactant.

2 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Why are we at 100% life support 20mins in, and still are unable to open our relics?

Do you allow the enemies time to get corruption procs on them? That is a prerequisite for the drops. If you kill stuff too fast you are going to lower the drop chance of reactant - this seems to be a really common problem. I doubt reactant will get removed, so your best option is to figure out how to maximise your chances. 

[xombob89]

Reactant is pointless and has tons of problems, yes, even on PC but it has been so forever and nothings been done and doesnt look like ever will be.

Theres also countless of other threads complaining about it buried by time, some even started by me. Maybe its time to dig those up again. 

[xombob89]

6 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Do you allow the enemies time to get corruption procs on them?

Why does everyone keep saying this? Its a squad based game, theres always someone killing them too fast in your squad and theres nothing you can do about it but watch in tears, smile and think "at least I know not to kill them too fast" but ah, it makes no difference because they will still ruin it for you as well.

So, this logic only works in solo but who does relic hunting solo when you get 4 chances at a reward in a squad?

[(NSW)Greybones]

Hm. I’m beginning to wonder if the point of reactant is to stop players from being overpowered to their own detriment. It’s kind of the only example that springs to mind though, and it doesn’t seem to be working too well

edit: 🤔 Boredom springs to mind as well, but that one’s a little harder to peg

[(NSW)Greybones]

Out of mild curiosity, what is this concept of “Done everything right” that I’ve seen floating around whenever reactant is involved?

I wasn’t aware there was a right way and a wrong way until fairly recently. Is there a trick or something to it?

[LillyRaccune]

I don't know all the details in this situation, but a number of players say they can't get enough reactant.

You know how in railjack missions the pickup pool is the same? It doesn't matter how far apart the players are. It would be nice if all reactant worked that way.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, LillyRaccune said:

I don't know all the details in this situation, but a number of players say they can't get enough reactant.

You know how in railjack missions the pickup pool is the same? It doesn't matter how far apart the players are. It would be nice if all reactant worked that way.

Yes. This is 100% how it should work. Reactant should be counted universally. Throw this idea into the "Things that would make Warframe significantly more enjoyable but will never be implemented because DE are DE" pile.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Out of mild curiosity, what is this concept of “Done everything right” that I’ve seen floating around whenever reactant is involved?

I wasn’t aware there was a right way and a wrong way until fairly recently. Is there a trick or something to it?

There is, you cannot be bouncing room to room and be killing enemies too quickly. It works best if you guys are atleast within a room or 2 of each other

In defense missions, 99.9% of the time I get all my reactant as we are all close together and enemies get infected by fissures often enough. Doing this in survival helps ensure everyone gets enough reactant more often than people being all over the place (but even then there are times where this still doesn't work, and it's really a survival mission issue, I think the other game modes for fissures work perfectly)

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

2 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

I don't know all the details in this situation, but a number of players say they can't get enough reactant.

You know how in railjack missions the pickup pool is the same? It doesn't matter how far apart the players are. It would be nice if all reactant worked that way.

 

50 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Yes. This is 100% how it should work. Reactant should be counted universally. Throw this idea into the "Things that would make Warframe significantly more enjoyable but will never be implemented because DE are DE" pile.

That's more pleasant but I still say just get rid of it entirely. It's not an engaging feature worth putting in effort to keep.

Give us void thralls or turn an entire room into an area that infects all enemies who enter it, simply give us reactant per kill.

 

Something pleasant. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

13 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

There is, you cannot be bouncing room to room and be killing enemies too quickly. It works best if you guys are atleast within a room or 2 of each other

In defense missions, 99.9% of the time I get all my reactant as we are all close together and enemies get infected by fissures often enough. Doing this in survival helps ensure everyone gets enough reactant more often than people being all over the place (but even then there are times where this still doesn't work, and it's really a survival mission issue, I think the other game modes for fissures work perfectly)

Cool cool. It’s been a long while since I’ve not had enough reactant, but I do remember doing an Interception fissure on Earth and not getting enough, so wasn’t sure what that was. Sounds like it was just bad luck of the droprate draw in my case then, which I guess inevitably will happen at some point where drop chances are concerned

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

7 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Cool cool. It’s been a long while since I’ve not had enough reactant, but I do remember doing an Interception fissure on Earth and not getting enough, so wasn’t sure what that was. Sounds like it was just bad luck of the droprate draw in my case then, which I guess inevitably will happen at some point where drop chances are concerned

I bet it has, I doubt it's ever supposed to happen considering how often you do get full reactant in other mission types. In defense I feel like the waves will literally stop and force spawn infected enemies for you to ensure you get the reactant

 

And as said before, it's elimination would do nothing but make the game better. I can't imagine a single soul having an issue with getting their relics open every round like we used to back in the day, as opposed to this unreliable mess

[(NSW)Greybones]

20 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

And as said before, it's elimination would do nothing but make the game better. I can't imagine a single soul having an issue with getting their relics open every round like we used to back in the day, as opposed to this unreliable mess

Perhaps. I am left wondering why it’s a thing in the first place. At some point the developers were like “We’ll have it work this particular way”. Why not make it a certain amount of enemies to kill, or why not make it so that mission completing will just crack the relic? It’s not really been a problem for me and I expect several others, yet it’s a system that’s not playing nice with all of us. If it has a purpose, I’m wondering whether it’s serving that purpose 🤔 

Would probably need actual developer insight into the decision process for the reactant drop system

edit: Hm. Maybe it’s not meant to play well with all of us, like how the option to polarize all of our slots means that we can either specialise or be more general-purpose

double edit: 🤔 Or how a Synthesis target can be killed. Personally I find the idea ludicrous; they seem ridiculously tough. But for some reason those synthesis targets aren’t immune (do people ever accidentally kill their synthesis targets?)

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

9 hours ago, krc473 said:

Surely if this was true DE would compensate console players with a higher drop chance for reactant

DE makes mistakes, so no it isn't sure that they do things right or good enough all the time, and this issue is likely a result of it as proof...

9 hours ago, krc473 said:

Do you allow the enemies time to get corruption procs on them? That is a prerequisite for the drops. If you kill stuff too fast you are going to lower the drop chance of reactant - this seems to be a really common problem. I doubt reactant will get removed, so your best option is to figure out how to maximise your chances. 

...

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

32 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Perhaps. I am left wondering why it’s a thing in the first place. At some point the developers were like “We’ll have it work this particular way”. Why not make it a certain amount of enemies to kill, or why not make it so that mission completing will just crack the relic? It’s not really been a problem for me and I expect several others, yet it’s a system that’s not playing nice with all of us. If it has a purpose, I’m wondering whether it’s serving that purpose 🤔 

Would probably need actual developer insight into the decision process for the reactant drop system

Yeah my point

 

I'm sure DE just added reactant drops because of all the other drops in the game. It was just a rushed addition to make the gamemode feel different. Consideration of how it would enhance gameplay wasn't brought to the table, as it fails to do so in every way as opposed to its more simple and easy to think of alternatives 

[LillyRaccune]

31 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

(do people ever accidentally kill their synthesis targets?)

I have killed them by accident. Something to do with status procs... Most the time it is just a malicious player that intentionally kills them. 😾

On topic: I think guaranteed drops on every corrupted enemy would be satisfactory.

Without reactant being a requirement, I imagine speed-spamming capture missions would become the meta... DE is seems to be meta-about anti-meta nerfs.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

3 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

 😾

 

Without reactant being a requirement, I imagine speed-spamming capture missions would become the meta... DE is seems to be meta-about anti-meta nerfs.

Great point indeed

[(NSW)Greybones]

13 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Yeah my point

 

I'm sure DE just added reactant drops because of all the other drops in the game. It was just a rushed addition to make the gamemode feel different. Consideration of how it would enhance gameplay wasn't brought to the table, as it fails to do so in every way as opposed to its more simple and easy to think of alternatives 

Hm. Perhaps. I’m not so sure, personally; those previous ideas were so easy to think up on the spot that I’d be surprised if someone didn’t bring them up over discussions on how to handle relic cracking.

The current system was implemented though, and now I’m honestly kind of wondering if it’s meant to be a “Here’s a semi-consequence for optimising the fun out of the game”, since Warframe’s level system has sort of always been a thing that gave the player the ability to optimise until there was simply no game left, but still rewards to get

[krc473]

13 hours ago, xombob89 said:

Why does everyone keep saying this? Its a squad based game, theres always someone killing them too fast in your squad and theres nothing you can do about it but watch in tears, smile and think "at least I know not to kill them too fast" but ah, it makes no difference because they will still ruin it for you as well.

So, this logic only works in solo but who does relic hunting solo when you get 4 chances at a reward in a squad?

By "you" I meant the squad/group. Not the individual. I did not think I needed to be more specific, my mistake. Everyone should know how the reactant drops work (if not, that is probably on DE), people should be accounting for this. If the squad wont account for it then that is kind of their problem. On PC you notice issues with drop rates on endless missions (Excavation in particular).

4 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

DE makes mistakes, so no it isn't sure that they do things right or good enough all the time, and this issue is likely a result of it as proof...

Of course they make mistakes. But it is the obvious thing to do, if the enemy spawn rate is lower then there should be compensation with higher drop rates for reactant. I have not seen any hard evidence that either is the case though - I don't play on console, so I have no experience with it. I am just stating what seems logical.

[TaricTheAncient]

14 hours ago, xombob89 said:

 

So, this logic only works in solo but who does relic hunting solo when you get 4 chances at a reward in a squad?

Me so i can pause the game when my boss comes in.

[Lutesque]

17 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Remove reactant pickups, they only cause issues

That's by design...

If you the game fails to spawn enough to corrupted Enemies and screws you out of your Rewards.... That's the game working as intended as far as DE's Concerned....

17 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

What purpose do they serve other than ruining the chances of opening your relic when you have done everything right?

Like I said... That's exactly why they were designed in the first place... They have no other purpose 😱 !!!

16 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

DE keeps things that serve purpose, and remove those that do not

That's not the DE I know.... *Looks at Conclave*...

16 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

 

So to rephrase my question, what purpose does it serve to make the gameplay enjoyable?

None.... The purpose is less about Enjoyment and more about Getting you to play longer by denying you your Rewards.... 

This is literally the Design Methodology used by Zynga back during The Farmville Days....I'm surprised it still works.

15 hours ago, krc473 said:

Surely if this was true DE would compensate console players with a higher drop chance for reactant.

You give DE too much credit 😝

15 hours ago, krc473 said:

Do you allow the enemies time to get corruption procs on them? That is a prerequisite for the drops. If you kill stuff too fast you are going to lower the drop chance of reactant - this seems to be a really common problem. I doubt reactant will get removed, so your best option is to figure out how to maximise your chances. 

Yesterday I was doing an Interception on Earth where we had to leave one of the Towers uncaptured because the Spawn Rates were Absolutely Terrible.... It would have been so much worse if the group I was in was less Sociable.

15 hours ago, xombob89 said:

Why does everyone keep saying this? Its a squad based game, theres always someone killing them too fast in your squad and theres nothing you can do about it but watch in tears, smile and think "at least I know not to kill them too fast" but ah, it makes no difference because they will still ruin it for you as well.

So, this logic only works in solo but who does relic hunting solo when you get 4 chances at a reward in a squad?

Huh.... I don't know why that point never occured to me.... 🤔... And here I thought I knew everything.

7 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Cool cool. It’s been a long while since I’ve not had enough reactant, but I do remember doing an Interception fissure on Earth and not getting enough, so wasn’t sure what that was. Sounds like it was just bad luck of the droprate draw in my case then, which I guess inevitably will happen at some point where drop chances are concerned

So the same thing happened to you in the same place as me... 🤔.... 

6 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

(do people ever accidentally kill their synthesis targets?)

Yes... With enough Damage you can Accidentally Kill a Synthesis Target in one Shot.... Thanks to all the Damage changes this now more than ever likey to happen more often.

 

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2021-10-08 at 6:49 AM, Lutesque said:

That's not the DE I know.... *Looks at Conclave*...

Conclave has purpose though. There's a large group of people who enjoy pvp and DE is/was attempting to bring that joy into warframe 

On 2021-10-08 at 6:49 AM, Lutesque said:

None.... The purpose is less about Enjoyment and more about Getting you to play longer by denying you your Rewards.... 

This is literally the Design Methodology used by Zynga back during The Farmville Days....I'm surprised it still works.

This I could understand but it doesn't seem to apply here. Over 95% of the time players are able to get full reactant in other game modes (if not more), especially so if you aren't nuking the map. The 5% or less chance to not get reactant isnt denying you much of anything, so it's not really getting you to play longer, it fails at doing that almost completely.

[Lutesque]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Conclave has purpose though. There's a large group of people who enjoy pvp and DE is/was attempting to bring that joy into warframe 

I'm actually glad they didn't remove Conclave for exactly those Reasons.... I personally don't like it but since I'm free not to take part that makes it 20 Times better than Railjack....

3 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

This I could understand but it doesn't seem to apply here. Over 95% of the time players are able to get full reactant in other game modes (if not more), the 5% or less chance to not get reactant isnt denying you much of anything, so it's not really getting you to play longer, it fails at doing that almost completely.

It's actually unnecessary 

It's not 95% for me.... 😝