Bosses and Boss fights. What needs changing?

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

6 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Says you.

You do realize that I agreed with your argument? Do you seriously read what is written on the board or you go reactionary when someone 'critique DE'? Which one is it. 

Let us put that theory of yours to a test. 

Proof: https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/warframe

Proof 2:https://www.metacritic.com/company/digital-extremes

Reviews are not favorable, sorry. 

Those are a joke in comparison to Dark Souls series, Sekiro, Daemon Souls, Elden Ring. 

DE IS NOT interested in hard boss fights at all. They are not even interested in deep engaging battles. These are just gear check and reward pool activities for farming. 

Correct. 

You do realize that many of the games I mentioned consider this? You have for all tastes and flavors for the players that are try hards and those who are initializing their journey. No one said that new players should be excluded. No one said that the learning curve should be hard. Those are things that you are mentioning right now. 

 

Warframe always had a portable phone format taste. The game was never meant to have an epic grandeur scale. It is what it is. Warframe IS NOT ALL THAT. Is it a bad game? No, but is not the best game ever either, son. 

Well, this is    interesting: https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-5/warframe/critic-reviews

Your trolling fun aside, you hunted for a game that no longer exists? Why did you do that? That was pretty petty to win an argument. Also, the replay values of those games are not designed to span a year, much less over 8. I played DS, beat it, enjoyed it and walked away from it within a month. Great game but not a game to repeat and enjoy.

As for the hard bosses, again, you're not in high company. The Tridolons, PT, etc have all been thoroughly played through by vets who, in the quest for views, gone to great lengths to spoil the difficulty (and game) by posting how-to videos. The best gear for efficiency is not a gear check, it's just time attack. Your hard boss game, Dark Souls, has suffered the same fate and it's very easy to see who follows the videos. I vividly remember the initial sets of videos those very vets were posting as they all struggled to defeat those bosses. They ALL praised the difficulty and some players in this forum tried to nerf them. That directly goes with my point of why vets shouldn't be talking about changing the game...because they very much enjoyed their struggles or complained the exact same way newer players are doing. It's hypocritical.

Alright son, this is my last one on this thread. I enjoyed the debate but it's tiring and truly pointless. Warframe isn't going anywhere anytime soon and, despite the desperate "Warframe is dying" campaigns from many old vets, the game is stronger than ever. Have good night and see you on the next post. Lol

[Felsagger]

44 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Well, this is    interesting: https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-5/warframe/critic-reviews

Seven people's average should be considered a weighted review? No seriously are you joking? 

Ok, let me try this again. Are you joking? 

Please tell me that you are. Please tell me. 

44 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Your trolling fun aside, you hunted for a game that no longer exists?

Wait, hold your horses? So writing a critique is now considered trolling? No seriously, let me ask you this yet again. Are you joking? 

44 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Why did you do that? That was pretty petty to win an argument. Also, the replay values of those games are not designed to span a year, much less over 8. I played DS, beat it, enjoyed it and walked away from it within a month. Great game but not a game to repeat and enjoy.

 

We are talking about game quality.  Warframe is a game that was designed to retain players over players' enjoyment. Games are supposed to entertain and make people have fun. Games are not DRUGS. Games is not SKID ROW. Games are supposed to provide joy not make you feel that you are at a JOB. 

The human kind has something that is called a brain. It's located in the upper skull. With the brain we construct thoughts and solve problems. As an advice I recommend that people use this 'device' more often. The results are radically way better. 

Let me be sure that you know what a brain is. The next picture depicts an MRI cross section of a healthy brain. If you have any further doubt about this subject don't hesitate to ask. 

Now let's continue with Warframe discussion and our subject. 

44 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

As for the hard bosses, again, you're not in high company. The Tridolons, PT, etc have all been thoroughly played through by vets who, in the quest for views, gone to great lengths to spoil the difficulty (and game) by posting how-to videos.

You do realize that watching a Dark Soul 3 Boss fight doesn't give you the necessary skills to defeat that boss, right? Even watching a detailed explanation of any build in Dark Souls doesn't give you any leverage against any of those bosses. It gives the tools but not the phsychomotor dexterity. 

In warframe you follow a receipt and is done. In any other game, where bosses are well designed, you require mechanical SKILL. 

44 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

The best gear for efficiency is not a gear check

It is. 

44 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

, it's just time attack.

Yes, you measure your gear efficiency with time, hence gear check. 

44 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Your hard boss game, Dark Souls, has suffered the same fate and it's very easy to see who follows the videos. I vividly remember the initial sets of videos those very vets were posting as they all struggled to defeat those bosses. They ALL praised the difficulty and some players in this forum tried to nerf them. That directly goes with my point of why vets shouldn't be talking about changing the game...because they very much enjoyed their struggles or complained the exact same way newer players are doing. It's hypocritical.

Have you played those games? NO. 

Go play them. You don't know what is a one hit kill. You don't know what is a one mistake disaster. You don't now what is a bad judgment decision that costs you the entire match. 

44 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Alright son, this is my last one on this thread.

Work harder on your comebacks.  

44 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Warframe isn't going anywhere anytime soon and, despite the desperate "Warframe is dying" campaigns from many old vets, the game is stronger than ever. Have good night and see you on the next post. Lol

You are getting it all wrong. Warframe IS NOT dying. Warframe is GETTING BORING, hence that's why many people leave it for a very long time for other games. 

 

Get your facts right. :p

 

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

11 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

You do realize that watching a Dark Soul 3 Boss fight doesn't give you the necessary skills to defeat that boss, right? Even watching a detailed explanation of any build in Dark Souls doesn't give you any leverage against any of those bosses. It gives the tools but not the phsychomotor dexterity.

Players gripe and moan about Dark Souls and Bloodborne. Players then get upset when others talk about and post videos of Dark Souls and Bloodborne.

Funnily enough, I already wrote that such fights wouldn't work in Warframe because of Warframe's replayability requirement to build and acquire things.

[Felsagger]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Players gripe and moan about Dark Souls and Bloodborne. Players then get upset when others talk about and post videos of Dark Souls and Bloodborne.

Funnily enough, I already wrote that such fights wouldn't work in Warframe because of Warframe's replayability requirement to build and acquire things.

Exactly. Those boss fights are not part of Warframe's game philosophy. These fights are reserved for a set of skills that require mechanical dexterity. They fit perfectly for Sekiro or Bloodborne. That's true. 

Warframe bosses are there for other purposes as you mentioned. Farming. That's exactly what those sponges with NO AI are there. They are flying piñatas useful for gear checks. Do I expect any change soon? No. DE will continue doing those. That's why I have other games for my needs. Pretty simple.  

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I think we are trying to turn Steel Path into something it was never supposed to be. I include myself in that group. 

DE have already done that, so we might aswell make it more of its own thing all the way. It was supposed to be a skip feature for endless modes more or less, a star chart with higher levels and no real rewards. It released with its own scaling modifiers and now sits with both Acolytes and its own unique rewards tied to it aswell. Building on the mode wont change what it was ment to be, since it never was what it was ment to be.

[mrpyro12345678]

5 часов назад, Felsagger сказал:

Yes, you measure your gear efficiency with time, hence gear check. 

Efficiency does not equal necessity. A gear check is when you HAVE to have specific equipment to be able to perform a task. GEN-Son_17 was describing progression, you build better weapons to take out eidolons faster.

[Felsagger]

5 minutes ago, mrpyro12345678 said:

Efficiency does not equal necessity. A gear check is when you HAVE to have specific equipment to be able to perform a task. GEN-Son_17 was describing progression, you build better weapons to take out eidolons faster.

Test performance determines if your equipment is apt to the task. Gear is tested hence checked throughout these performances or 'stress tests'. 

[Galuf]

It was a nice read. I love seeing everyone's opinion. However selfishly I'm happy that some players share the exact same vision that I have of a boss fight. After 30years of gaming, I really tend to get pretentious and feel like I'm always right on those topics, but it always feel good to see people conforting my biaises and trying to figure out how other players can come to different analysis or conclusions.

My 5 cents is that WF team could developp high quality PvE content if it was what they wanted. DE puts in the flavour when they want, they have the talent and the vision very often. However that content would need to be B2P, internally developp with Q/A and devop in mind(devs are responsible of their own spaghetti and the integration of the crap they put in the game) and that looking at DE glassdoor, seems very problematic ^^'(the company is managed by some kind 12yo silverspoon dbs it seems). There is a market for that, I'd definitely pay for this kind of monetization.

[xxswatelitexx]

1 thing that needs changing

Invulnerability Phase mechanics.

 

These are the most annoying thing ever.

Vor is great - his Invun phase isn't annoying.

Big Event Jackal is also fine - because you  can remove invun phase through hacking mechanic.

 

Annoying - Litch Krill and Lephantis - where you have to essentially wait. Which really kills the mood.

Horrific - Profit Taker - Full invulnerability except to single element? Beyond annoying.  It forces very specific builds - and cuts down on a lot of freedom. 

[Arniox]

12 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Wait, hold your horses? So writing a critique is now considered trolling? No seriously, let me ask you this yet again. Are you joking? 

Dude. You're getting way to argumentative over a video game. Just chill and take a step back and realise your arguing over such an irrelevant topic to your everyday life. 

You, me, and everyone who plays warframe enjoys it for different reasons. I made this post simply asking what I thought could be done to increase my own personal enjoyment. I hope you noticed in my main post, I used the words "in my opinion" in the very first sentence. 

But I'll just happily play through anything that DE releases and really don't mind however DE decide to change the game. 

[Arniox]

36 minutes ago, xxswatelitexx said:

Horrific - Profit Taker - Full invulnerability except to single element? Beyond annoying.  It forces very specific builds - and cuts down on a lot of freedom

I'd argue the profit taker is an excellent boss fight. It forces the player to have varied builds on each of your weapons instead of your same old "generic" build. 

Profit Taker doesn't have immortal stages. Just really well built "fight stages". It's got a very clear and understandable flow to the fight. 

[Felsagger]

14 minutes ago, Arniox said:

Dude. You're getting way to argumentative over a video game. Just chill and take a step back and realize your arguing over such an irrelevant topic to your everyday life. 

I'm on a good mood. Don't worry. I'm aware that this is a forum and we are conversing about video games. No one gains or looses anything. :

 

14 minutes ago, Arniox said:

You, me, and everyone who plays warframe enjoys it for different reasons. I made this post simply asking what I thought could be done to increase my own personal enjoyment. 

It depends how you see the game. I combine few games here and there. I simply gave this one a rest for few months. If New War delivers, I'll see what's up with the content and finish the story in that content release. 

14 minutes ago, Arniox said:

But I'll just happily play through anything that DE releases and really don't mind however DE decide to change the game. 

It's quite simple. You are right there. If I see that this horse can't climb the mountain I pick another one that does it for my hobby. 

[xxswatelitexx]

52 minutes ago, Arniox said:

I'd argue the profit taker is an excellent boss fight. It forces the player to have varied builds on each of your weapons instead of your same old "generic" build. 

Profit Taker doesn't have immortal stages. Just really well built "fight stages". It's got a very clear and understandable flow to the fight. 

Really well built?

Some really low standards. 

If you want to see really well built boss fights go to Monster Hunter World. They are the gold standard for boss fights.

 

 

The only good boss I can think of in warframe is the Shadow Infested Boss.

It has a fair mechanic - find the light attack, stop the healing, attack more find light again. 

Exploiter Orb also had good mechanics - shoot the rocks to make it fall - throw canister to break vents - then a DPS check in phase 2. 

 

Profit Taker is just a bad boss all around. There is no real special mechanic except for "Shoot with status effect"  Then Shoot with Arch gun. 

Even Vor was more fun. 

[Felsagger]

5 hours ago, xxswatelitexx said:

Really well built?

Some really low standards. 

If you want to see really well built boss fights go to Monster Hunter World. They are the gold standard for boss fights.

 

 

The only good boss I can think of in warframe is the Shadow Infested Boss.

It has a fair mechanic - find the light attack, stop the healing, attack more find light again. 

Exploiter Orb also had good mechanics - shoot the rocks to make it fall - throw canister to break vents - then a DPS check in phase 2. 

 

Profit Taker is just a bad boss all around. There is no real special mechanic except for "Shoot with status effect"  Then Shoot with Arch gun. 

Even Vor was more fun. 

Agree. 

Profit Taker entertains with the hordes. There could be better hordes while we take on the spider. Instead of one why not throw in two spiders with better weapons and artillery. PT was good. There could be few boss fights like horde mode in fortuna defending a series of NPCs in a complex of buildings. Those fights could end up being interesting instead of repeating those boring thermia fractures. Horde mode could be of great use in this game but is reserved only for 'survival'. 

 

The mere fact of adding a boss into a fight at a random instance can change the pace of the game. Even two bosses just to heat things up fast. Fortuna should have more activity of enemies and so the map in general. Both maps, PoE and Fortuna looks like barren lands. That needs good updates on the enemy activity. However DE keeps things low so every device handles the game without problems. 

 

 

[Galuf]

Il y a 2 heures, Felsagger a dit :

The mere fact of adding a boss into a fight at a random instance can change the pace of the game. Even two bosses just to heat things up fast. Fortuna should have more activity of enemies and so the map in general. Both maps, PoE and Fortuna looks like barren lands. That needs good updates on the enemy activity. However DE keeps things low so every device handles the game without problems.

Open Worlds maps are exactly like you average missions. Enemy spawn is handled the same way, the content is however way more scripted. There are technical limitations there, first it is player hosted so the game state must be able to run on a single machine while the guy is playing and on top of that the gamestate need to be broadcastable to 3 other dudes. Open world will never get upgraded, and it is probably the maximum DE can do already. They cherish the WoW effect, if they could make them bigger or more alive they would.

[Felsagger]

20 minutes ago, Galuf said:

Open Worlds maps are exactly like you average missions. Enemy spawn is handled the same way, the content is however way more scripted. There are technical limitations there, first it is player hosted so the game state must be able to run on a single machine while the guy is playing and on top of that the gamestate need to be broadcastable to 3 other dudes. Open world will never get upgraded, and it is probably the maximum DE can do already.

Yes, pretty much. 

That's exactly the reason I don't expect much out of this game at all. In the next five years we will have the same IDENTICAL crap that we have now. The engine is one and the other one is the complexity of these broadcasts. We have an illusion of the game we want but we do not comprehend the limitations of the technology that we have. To boot this game will be ported to mobile phones. 

I stopped having expectations for this average looking and average game play experience in this game. It's not going to happen in at least six or seven years from now. It will remain like this until the project gets a new engine, unlikely to happen, or the project changes owners and developers. 

20 minutes ago, Galuf said:

They cherish the WoW effect, if they could make them bigger or more alive they would.

DE can't handle more than they have now. I can't expect an open world like Red Dead Redemption 2. I can't, it's impossible for them. Warframe requires a bigger set of developers to run smoothly. If not we will be having this spasmodic bugged experience with lots of content islands. 

[Galuf]

Il y a 9 heures, Felsagger a dit :

DE can't handle more than they have now. I can't expect an open world like Red Dead Redemption 2. I can't, it's impossible for them. Warframe requires a bigger set of developers to run smoothly. If not we will be having this spasmodic bugged experience with lots of content islands. 

I'm still following this game because there are tons of things in wf and DE techs that are above the curve in the gaming industry. I believe they have done extremly good pieces of software engineering at some points but at others they have done really poor things as well and scaffolded on those poor things over and over. And to me it is the epitome of what capitalism/financiarisation does to products. The game would be 20 times better right now if they focused on the product from start, they focused on profit and are scaffolding onto the crappy side of the game consistently while never disclosing what they do on a technical PoV. They are actively loosing money doing things this way.

So yeah, I'm not positive that the game will reinvent itself sadly, but I'm very curious on how it will deal with the tests of time moving forward from hypetrains to hypetrains. They are good at renewing graphic assets but graphics is not the most important, gameplay is what makes and breaks games ultimately and WF gameplay is hindred by so many arbitray things DE put on themselves that it is crazy.

A good example of a product that generated huge revenue while not beeing profit driven is Warcraft 3. This game provided breaktrough that the whole gaming industry profited on, it was B2P and heavily cracked by the community. However it sold very well(because it was an amazing game), it was enough to hype future titles(remember World of Warcraft), and as a byproduct it  generated few emergent titles and whole new styles of games that now work on their own. We had no game since W3 released that changed the gaming industry as much for the good and it was not a financiarised product. Makes you think real hard about all the crap that is going on in that industry.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Galuf said:

I'm still following this game because there are tons of things in wf and DE techs that are above the curve in the gaming industry. I believe they have done extremely good pieces of software engineering at some points but at others they have done really poor things as well and scaffolded on those poor things over and over. And to me it is the epitome of what capitalism/financialization does to products. The game would be 20 times better right now if they focused on the product from start, they focused on profit and are scaffolding onto the crappy side of the game consistently while never disclosing what they do on a technical PoV. They are actively loosing money doing things this way.

This is a phenomenon we noticed for a span of 9 years. It's an illness that has solution. The EA phenomenon is very likely to happen here with Warframe. DE is the trend merchandizer that copy and paste the trends of the moment with the current games that are happening in the industry. They implement old ideas that where workable and tested. Their only true contribution is the RNG system and the 'monetization of time' through these time gates. They have a long history on the PC market with Unreal Tournament but such days are long gone. 

Quality and delivery are important in our current trends. Respawn never expected to see Titan Fall 2 be so famous now. They where ahead of time ten years into the future without even knowing what they did. Respawn literally influenced Overwatch from top to bottom. I can't expect much from DE lately. The best stance is to simply wait for the content without high expectations. The game IS NOT going to radically change at all. That will be possible if Insomniac or any other capable company associate with DE for further development of Warframe. 

 

1 hour ago, Galuf said:

 

So yeah, I'm not positive that the game will reinvent itself sadly, but I'm very curious on how it will deal with the tests of time moving forward from hypetrains to hypetrains. They are good at renewing graphic assets but graphics is not the most important, gameplay is what makes and breaks games ultimately and WF gameplay is hindered by so many arbitray things DE put on themselves that it is crazy.

A good example of a product that generated huge revenue while not beeing profit driven is Warcraft 3. This game provided breaktrough that the whole gaming industry profited on, it was B2P and heavily cracked by the community. However it sold very well(because it was an amazing game), it was enough to hype future titles(remember World of Warcraft), and as a byproduct it  generated few emergent titles and whole new styles of games that now work on their own. We had no game since W3 released that changed the gaming industry as much for the good and it was not a financiarised product. Makes you think real hard about all the crap that is going on in that industry.

Pretty much. 

The hype train of DE is dying out to be honest. They are not the same as before. They simply got old. Their game is showing age and their approach is repeating again the same vicious cycles. I think DE should take a long break from this game and/or increase personnel with other developers for a full realization of the game. What we have now are just fragments. 

[Arniox]

On 2021-11-09 at 10:22 AM, xxswatelitexx said:

If you want to see really well built boss fights go to Monster Hunter World. They are the gold standard for boss fights

I hate when people try compare warframe to other, newer games. As if it's a competition. It's not

I'm saying that the orb fight is really well built for warframe bosses. 

Also, I have to state. My original comment you replied to was a mistype. I get the two orb fights really confused. I meant the exploiter orb. I actually agree the profit taker fight is really meh. Haven't actually done it in quite a while now. But I remember it being pretty lackluster 

I've never played dark souls, or monster hunter world. I've only played warframe as my only PvE game because I only enjoy warframe and wished it had more engaging fights only in the context of warframe. 

 

[Arniox]

23 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Both maps, PoE and Fortuna looks like barren lands. That needs good updates on the enemy activity. However DE keeps things low so every device handles the game without problems. 

I deffinately agree with this. 

And its a shame as well, because the game going to mobile means that in order for the game to be playable on everything means that they'll probably reduce activities everywhere.... 

I wish they just accepted the differences in hardware, and balanced enemy spawns differently on different hardware 

[Arniox]

9 hours ago, Felsagger said:

The hype train of DE is dying out to be honest. They are not the same as before. They simply got old. Their game is showing age and their approach is repeating again the same vicious cycles. I think DE should take a long break from this game and/or increase personnel with other developers for a full realization of the game. What we have now are just fragments. 

It's kindof funny that a discussion about the buggy, boring, and underwhelming boss fights in warframe, has changed into a discussion about the downward trend of DE's development cycle. 

I completely agree with this statement. And it is really sad to see DE drown themselves like they've been doing for the last few years. I still really enjoy warframe for nostalgia's sake. Like so many people still play runescape for the same reason. 

But if DE don't associate themselves with a much bigger development company soon, I can feel the death of warframe coming in the next 5-6 years. Because unless they reinvent their personal wheel, the game is just in a repeated endless cycle. 

One thing they could do. Is move the game into unreal engine 5. Its incredibly well optimised at base and allows for infinite highly detailed worlds. With an incredibly strong backend and extremely quick development speed. And then DE REALLY needs to move the game to server sided. 

Having this "pseudo lan" online weird server system they have, has worked for years now. But just feels incredibly old and outdated now days. And has HEAVY restrictions for what they can do in the future. Both in terms of AI count and activity count, and for the gameplay. 

[Felsagger]

8 minutes ago, Arniox said:

I definitely agree with this. 

And its a shame as well, because the game going to mobile means that in order for the game to be playable on everything means that they'll probably reduce activities everywhere.... 

I wish they just accepted the differences in hardware, and balanced enemy spawns differently on different hardware 

The lowest common denominator are the portable phones. Exactly. 

Well, reading other threads I understood that Warframe is not a Game. Never was, ever. As another user perfectly described it. "Warframe is a vanity project". I was completely wrong, many times thinking that such product was a game. IT NEVER WAS IN THE FIRST PLACE. This entertains as a game and share some attributes of a game but it isn't. It behaves completely different to other standard games. 

It would be simply adding quantity of enemies, activity and level of detail. However you and me knows that is not THAT SIMPLE. In computer programming everything IS NOT THAT SIMPLE as it sounds. There's a lot of testing and coding if DE accepts the difference of such hardware. Well if that is the case then DE would require a full subdivisions of 300 employees for every device. They have to grow insanely big if each version of the 'game' where accommodated to each device. 

Can you imagine a level of detail in those lands like Horizon Zero Forbidden West? I would love to see worlds like that but that is of course daydreaming. That will never ever happen in a product like this. 

[Felsagger]

7 minutes ago, Arniox said:

It's kindof funny that a discussion about the buggy, boring, and underwhelming boss fights in warframe, has changed into a discussion about the downward trend of DE's development cycle. 

I completely agree with this statement. And it is really sad to see DE drown themselves like they've been doing for the last few years. I still really enjoy warframe for nostalgia's sake. Like so many people still play runescape for the same reason. 

But if DE don't associate themselves with a much bigger development company soon, I can feel the death of warframe coming in the next 5-6 years. Because unless they reinvent their personal wheel, the game is just in a repeated endless cycle. 

One thing they could do. Is move the game into unreal engine 5. Its incredibly well optimized at base and allows for infinite highly detailed worlds. With an incredibly strong backend and extremely quick development speed. And then DE REALLY needs to move the game to server sided. 

Having this "pseudo lan" online weird server system they have, has worked for years now. But just feels incredibly old and outdated now days. And has HEAVY restrictions for what they can do in the future. Both in terms of AI count and activity count, and for the gameplay. 

 

Arniox, I had a legion of trolls hunting my ass and my account when I said exactly this. DE should change their graphic engine. Believe me, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO THAT unless they are forced to DO THAT. An engine change is way too risky in many ways. They need a legion of developers working with them for the trespassing of the game to this new engine. They require an insane amount of budget for such bold move. 

Is Warframe dying? No it isn't. It will live long enough but it will STOP EVOLVING towards the next generation. Would the game improve? Yes but now the whole game will be on portable phones. 

[Galuf]

Il y a 1 heure, Felsagger a dit :

Can you imagine a level of detail in those lands like Horizon Zero Forbidden West? I would love to see worlds like that but that is of course daydreaming. That will never ever happen in a product like this. 

HFW uses Decima, like Death Stranding. It is a pretty good engine but it costs a lot to developp a game using that and honestly, you don't really go this far if it is not open world, those kinds of engines are great when you want to design high quality open world wich is not what wf is about. Very honestly, the game that managed the best the "Open World" aspects is Death Stranding, because ohw immersive it is, it felt like a justified choice there. Most open worlds feel like massive checkboxes blank of gameplay to me because you need to be slow for the engine to properly generate your surroundings. HDZ lasted me 2 days and I was done with it, half the time I was feeling like doing chores and it is one of the best open world game ever released imho ^^'.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Galuf said:

HFW uses Decima, like Death Stranding. It is a pretty good engine but it costs a lot to developp a game using that and honestly, you don't really go this far if it is not open world, those kinds of engines are great when you want to design high quality open world wich is not what wf is about. Very honestly, the game that managed the best the "Open World" aspects is Death Stranding, because ohw immersive it is, it felt like a justified choice there. Most open worlds feel like massive checkboxes blank of gameplay to me because you need to be slow for the engine to properly generate your surroundings. HDZ lasted me 2 days and I was done with it, half the time I was feeling like doing chores and it is one of the best open world game ever released imho ^^'.

DE can't and will never reach HDZ or DS heights. I can't see that happening. Even DR2 is out of their scope. DE designed a vanity project with Warframe. You are absolutely correct. They will not reach those goals at all. 

DE is interested in a passive monetization system that trades time for money plugging some forced time gates. They study how much people can take and with statistical excel data they derive their conclusions. 

There are no accidents the way DE manages this. They are smart enough to figure out things and they know how to press and when. I had fun with the vanity project. But for some reason I misjudged it all these years. My intuition guided me well. I decided to put it aside and try other games, you see, actually real games. I still enjoy what Warframe offers but I placed all those thoughts of 'improvement' behind. 

Warframe changes only if DE changes in structure and human resources. Warframe changes if there is a drastic change in the higher ups in such team. I don't want to be "THAT GUY" saying that but some faces needs to change. But that's the only way change could happen. 

If Warframe is profitable enough we will see true updates but investors are NOT GOING TO RISK CASH IN THIS COW. The cow doesn't produce enough milk for a steady revenue. It is what it is. If the community is willing to pour more money that could persuade the investors then we could see few good changes but that's highly unlikely either.

Sadly great games are eaten fast because good players consumes them like Oreo cookies with milk. The rate of production will always be lower than the rate of consumption. That's why I threw away my hopes on seeing better days on this project, Warframe, or I simply take it for what it is or move on. 

I will deal with it by simply treating the whole product as a coffee table entertainment for Fridays. No disappointment, no gripes, not raining in the parades of others who enjoys it. Would it be fun watching Warframe reaching the next evolving stage? Of course, who doesn't. Many people made their childhood playing this. 

It's fair to let others enjoy their own path without being intervened or advised. Maybe it's better to wait and let time decides if this boat gets another leg.