Detailed analysis of Hydroid

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

I never made a twitter or will ever make one so here’s hoping you’ll get his attention!

5 hours ago, Zabyr said:

Thank you for the information. I have replied to Pablo, hopefully he will reply to me 🤞

 

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

linking because tiresome monologue

and it worked

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

On 2023-03-13 at 12:52 AM, Zabyr said:

Of course, especially when they are spinning like a top or when the mobs in the next room are chained to the walls, it also, you know, contributes to their killing. 😃👍

 

Рассказывай 😉

 

We can sit here for hours and argue, я тебе про Фому, ты мне про Ерёму..

There is such a Russian proverb, I'm sure there is such a thing in the English language too. Saying: "When a person wants something, he is looking for an opportunity, when he does not want, he is looking for reasons."

What you and others write is only a search for reasons. Instead of whining, go play Hydroid. Make builds, learn to play and so on. Or, you can sit on the forum and sob, how bad everything is.
There are no other options. I chose the first option and it works, and at the same time, I did not have to spend a lot of time, because Hydroid gives everything so that I can play normally. There are, of course, like everyone else, errors in work (bugs), but this does not interfere so much. (But I would like to fix them, as well as for other Frames).

I understand that you might just not like Hydroid as much as I don't like Wisp and Xaku, but I won't let you lie about Hydroid.

 

I believe you, and do not try to defend my position angrily, but the niche is there, you just don't want to see it. This niche - play Hydroid or not. There are no other niches.

i don't search for reasons i search for answers and logic reason and mechanical downsides

Biology isn't singular it is multipurpose 

Hydroid made by the Biological manipulators or orokin wouldn't have made hydroid for a singular purpose of being a puddle of water

He is a Warframe not a puddle But both For War and fear yet Hydroid can't seem to do either without issue yet he has both legs 

[Zabyr]

7 часов назад, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 сказал:

i search for answers

There's only one answer here: You either want to play Hydroid and you do, or you don't and you don't.

He has everything you need to play well:
Control;
Survival;
Damage ("Tentacle Swarm," "Undertow", Weapons);
Resource Farming;
Fun game (depends on the player);

If it's not clear to you, as it is to others, that Hydroid is okay, I can't help you.

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

or i use a Lavos and do better at Hydroid than Hydroid with atleast 2 reliable abilities (and Lavos first solid healing ability) with an actually good charge mechanic and proper tanking stats to go archon hunting

Or i wait for enemies to die instead of just killing them as Hydroid

Edited August 5, 2023 by (XBOX)Mastermitchel89

[Zabyr]

 

I've redone most of the article and turned it into a video. There are no English subtitles, but I will add them later, for now use the YouTube translator, from Russian to English (if you are interested).

Later (I need to take a break after editing and recording the video), I'll redo this article for a new version. The information will not become obsolete, even after the rework of the Hydroid.

[Skoomaseller]

@Zabyr your thoughts on the upcoming hydroid rework

what do you expect how do you feel about your favourite frame being touched at all etc

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

For me personally, I just hope his current gameplay is in the game somewhere after the change… I’ve been really enjoying it ever since I started playing Warframe.

There is no other Warframe that can give the same experience as Hydroid.

[Zabyr]

В 26.09.2023 в 17:31, Skoomaseller сказал:

@Zabyr your thoughts on the upcoming hydroid rework

what do you expect how do you feel about your favourite frame being touched at all etc

I was about to answer you, but I decided to watch DevStream 173 and now I have completely different thoughts - Rage, despair and pain. The worst nightmare has come true.

[Skoomaseller]

8 minutes ago, Zabyr said:

I was about to answer you, but I decided to watch DevStream 173 and now I have completely different thoughts - Rage, despair and pain. The worst nightmare has come true.

Oh dear. Care to elaborate?

Edited September 29, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[ShogunGunshow]

He can't be a hipster anymore.

[Zabyr]

13 минут назад, Skoomaseller сказал:

Oh dear. Care to elaborate?

I’ll answer later, it’s already 5 in the morning, I want to sleep.

[Skoomaseller]

3 hours ago, Zabyr said:

I’ll answer later, it’s already 5 in the morning, I want to sleep.

Have a good rest brother.

On 2023-09-27 at 7:38 AM, Turritopsis_Dohrnii said:

For me personally, I just hope his current gameplay is in the game somewhere after the change… I’ve been really enjoying it ever since I started playing Warframe.

There is no other Warframe that can give the same experience as Hydroid.

and how do you feel now that the reworked kit has been shown

[Zabyr]

В 29.09.2023 в 09:19, Skoomaseller сказал:

Have a good rest brother.

and how do you feel now that the reworked kit has been shown

 

I'll start from afar. In one Russian gaming magazine there was a review of the Digital Extremes game – WarPath.

Спойлер

This is a clone of Unreal Tournament 2004. The editor of the article was shocked how the studio that had a hand in the legendary Unreal and Unreal Tournament 1999 could make such potboiler work. Then he wrote that DE were mediocrities who had lost their talent.

18 years later, I agree with him. DE are mediocrities and potboilers!

 

This is the gift you gave me for my six-year anniversary of playing for Hydroid.
I play WARFRAME, this donation trash, just for the sake of Hydroid and you decided to ruin everything and make him other Warframe. That's why I was so afraid of the rework.

And what did you take from me?

 

Passive
Why was it necessary to remove the tentacle? Was it so difficult to add a new passive to it? We have Warframes with two or even three passive skills, what was the problem with combining them? I could use it just as easily as before. I loved it because I play Melee.

 

Tempest Barrage
Okay, they removed the charger, although I liked it and was convenient, but okay. I'm ready to compromise, but what do I get - corrosion? Where is the cold? Hydroid is a disabler, not a debuffer. Cold would suit him better to slow down enemies even more. And with the help of an augment, anyone could make it a debuffer that cuts off armor. And corrosion. It does not destroy proto-shields, unlike cold and impact.

 

Tidal Surge
(//_-) And why was it bad to throw enemies in the direction of movement?

Okay, they removed it. OK. But what instead, corrosion again? Have you eaten too much acid and are feeling sick?
My question is, what, it would have been impossible for Tidal Wave to steal armor from enemies and then there would have been no need to remove Ebb Tide. Has such an obvious thought ever occurred to you? Where are we going, we're potboilers. I hope you have reduced the energy consumption from 50 to 25 or 15. This has been requested as often as charging. Have you read the reviews?

 

Undertow/Plunder
Ironic. You plunder me DE, where is my Undertow that I used? You took the water Warframe roleplaying away from me. I was like a Toa Nuva Gali, but I became an acid-using Bohrok. Acid and water? It’s okay that water neutralizes sulfuric acid. These are two opposites.

Hydroid was a controller-disabler, and you made him a Debuffer-damage-tank, with the ability to control, but much worse. Just because you play Nezha, Pablo, doesn't mean that all other Warframes have to be like him. Bring Scott back, he understands Hydroid better than you.

You have until October 18th to bring back the Undertow by combining it with the Tidal Surge. Go for it!

You took away a unique ability from Hydroid that worked, you just needed to remove the Impact damage and make True damage, like it was in 2014. And also, make this damage dealt from 2% to 5%. Because without armor, enemies in Undertow die in 3-4 seconds.

 

Tentacle Swarm
I asked you to make more tentacles. The larger the affected area, the more tentacles. 20 tentacles at 42 meters is not enough. Where is it all? You removed the knockback from my Tempest Barrage, so how am I supposed to parry the blind spots of the tentacles now without it?
I hope you haven't removed True Damage from the tentacles.

 

 

Who was this rework for? It is clear for whom - for infantile screamers who have never eaten anything sweeter than carrots in their lives. And for Hydroid fans, the minimum has been done here. Although, why be surprised, we waited 2 years for the Hydroid trailer, but what we got was potboilers. You made a great trailer for Wisp Prime, but not for Hydroid.

 

A few years ago, my clanmates left Warframe after reworking Ember and adding idiotic meteorites. Ember's aesthetic has been turned into nonsense. Everything happened again, only with Hydroid...

 

That's what I feel, pain and disappointment.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Zabyr

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

On 2023-09-28 at 11:19 PM, Skoomaseller said:

and how do you feel now that the reworked kit has been shown

I’ve been playing Hydroid for as long as I remember. He’s the reason why I played Warframe regularly ever since I started playing the game.

Of course, since it’s largely a rework and not a touch up like before - I’m opinionated to feel negative about the changes. Lots of things I’ve known about him are about to change fairly soon and I’m not excited at all about it.

I’m willing to give him a try though because I owe Hydroid that at least because he gave me fun and enjoyment for so many years. I’ll try to be as neutral as possible and only look towards facts that I know when playing him when it happens. 

[TheKurtiStryke]

5 hours ago, Turritopsis_Dohrnii said:

I’m opinionated to feel negative about the changes. Lots of things I’ve known about him are about to change fairly soon and I’m not excited at all about it.

ah yes, you mean the long and painfull time required to cast 1 and 4? or the 4 violently shaking enemies here and there so it's harder to shoot at them? or maybe the 2 that makes you always slam your face in the walls? or pheraps it's the 3 making the gameplay  nonexistent allowing you to press a button and go watch a movie? oh no! wait, i'm sure it's because of the super storng passive right?

please....

abilities 1-2-4 got better, do better damage, it's easier and less painfull to cast them(especially ability 4 that works better), and better synergy while basically staying the same, the only thing that changed was his 3, and guess what, once again DE manages to delete/change an ability that makes the gameplay either braindead or  nonexistent, but a lot of people complaing only because that stupid gameplay got removed and they refuse to use 1% of their brain while playing....some people just want to play the game by going afk......

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by TheKurtiStryke

[(PSN)aarott]

Zabyr reminds me of me, back when they changed Atlas. Atlas main, btw. And tell you what, I hated the changes to petrify. Yeah, instant petrify is better, but it was basically impossible to miss old petrify and it was way cooler. 

It took me a year to pick up Atlas again. I still miss old petrify, and I don't press his 3 ever, but fortunately I can get by without it.

Gonna be a bit harder for Hydroid though. They're not "'"'buffing"'"' undertow, they're taking it away completely. And I'm not sure Plunder will fill the defensive hole that undertow's loss will leave in his gameplay. 

Anyway, good luck Zabyr. I hope your pain'll heal. 

 

9 hours ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

the only thing that changed was his 3, and guess what, once again DE manages to delete/change an ability that makes the gameplay either braindead or  nonexistent, but a lot of people complaing only because that stupid gameplay got removed and they refuse to use 1% of their brain while playing....

Ah yes, because 'outgoing gun number up, incoming gun number down' is so much more cerebral than Undertow. 

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

On 2023-09-30 at 6:57 PM, TheKurtiStryke said:

the only thing that changed was his 3, and guess what, once again DE manages to delete/change an ability that makes the gameplay either braindead or  nonexistent, but a lot of people complaing only because that stupid gameplay got removed and they refuse to use 1% of their brain while playing....some people just want to play the game by going afk......

You can jump and roll out of 3 or use Tidal Surge with it. It was easy to use it as an active ability just like everyone else and keep up with the speediest of Warframes. I've mainly been using a Speedroid loadout and kept up with Gauss, Volts, Titanias, and Nezhas only because I've been able to practice button presses and timing depending on the maps.

The passive also synergized with this since when you choose to jump from Tidal Surge or Undertow, slamming comes naturally to make that tentacle in the hallway while you deal with other enemies you'd rather be dealing with, also gave you an option whether to make a tentacle or go for those executions. Hydroid's stop and surf gameplay was nice and flowed well in that way. I will acknowledge that others also built him differently and in a way that you described but I can't just ignore the fact that you chose to disregard the more active ways to play the Hydroid - far from being AFK.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Turritopsis_Dohrnii

[sunderthefirmament]

8 hours ago, Turritopsis_Dohrnii said:

The passive also synergized with this since when you choose to jump from Tidal Surge or Undertow, slamming comes naturally to make that tentacle in the hallway while you deal with other enemies you'd rather be dealing with, also gave you an option whether to make a tentacle or go for those executions

It is truly a testament to the diversity of human experiences that you can actually find people defending Hydroid’s passive- a CHANCE to spawn a tentacle on a slam attack. 
 

I’m trying to remain cautiously optimistic about the upcoming Hydroid rework, but from what I’ve seen I am worried it won’t be as profound a departure as the soggy captain needs to actually be worth using in modern Warframe. 
 

We’ll know in a few weeks, I guess. 

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I’m trying to remain cautiously optimistic about the upcoming Hydroid rework, but from what I’ve seen I am worried it won’t be as profound a departure as the soggy captain needs to actually be worth using in modern Warframe. 
 

We’ll know in a few weeks, I guess. 

He'll become a terrifying weapon platform with all the innate methods of applying corrosive together with his passive. Swap in nourish instead of tidal wave to get free viral and then slap on a Torid Incarnon modded for gas+electricity or gas+cold and you'll have devastating AoE and single target damage.

He'll likely only lack a bit in one-off missions that require constant movement. But all he really needs there is to get his plunder up and then he can apply corrosive for future rebuffs through his weapon, if he needs to rebuff before the mission is over that is. However, the lack of kits catering to one-off missions is quite a normal thing in WF, and most often we dont think about it since they are so simple to complete anyway. For any endless aswell as versus bosses he will be a total monster by the looks of it.

[Skoomaseller]

tbh I don't see why DE can't make it so Undertow/Plunder becomes an alt-cast on Hydroid's 3rd ability slot.

Tap cast: Plunder

Hold cast: Undertow

strip armor, then drown everyone as they take %hp scaling damage in your puddle. Like it'd make undertow even better

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

tbh I don't see why DE can't make it so Undertow/Plunder becomes an alt-cast on Hydroid's 3rd ability slot.

I think it is because they dont seem to have liked the idea of undertow in general. Like they mentioned how it hides enemies from other players, it has afk-potential tied to it and so on. Plus WF as a game has changed over the years and the skill isnt exactly useful or beneficial to overall gameplay in any content right now.

Or like when I played with my friend and his Hydroid a few years back, where I and others interrupted his joy in the gameplay by stirring or boiling his puddle soup. Where also the question came up "what is the point of the puddle when the mobs could have just been killed faster instead?". It's a limited area, quite small, allows you to drag single targets into it, or tidal over things to catch them, leaving your original spot that you likely was in just in order to keep it safe through puddle CC to begin with. Which to me just reads as utterly pointless and counter productive.

And on defense tiles where it is most useful the mobs will likely stop long before reaching it and just shoot the objective, at which point you probably rely on your #4 to protect the target anyways. Which kinda makes undertow CC bloat in Hydroid's kit. Plus since it is defense, splashing around gathering enemies or grabbing them one-by-one from your location only results in a terribly slow completion time of the mission in the end. You'd be better of just being solid and shooting things because nothing will willingly walk into the puddle at any effective rate.

[(PSN)aarott]

10 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Swap in nourish instead of tidal wave to get free viral and then slap on a Torid Incarnon modded for gas+electricity or gas+cold and you'll have devastating AoE and single target damage.

Nourish and Torid basically remove the need to have a warframe at all. Only thing Hydroid'd be contributing would be the armour from plunder, but there are frames that do that part better, and with less setup to boot.

But tell you what, if you're gonna go that route, I'll give a suggestion: subsume over Barrage instead. That way you get a status clear, bringing you just a little closer to the likes of the Rhinos and Revenants you are competing with. Take the surge augment and you'll be able to skip out on Primed Sure Footed, too.   With the energy from nourish, you'll be able to spam tentacles pretty often, and with the viral from nourish, you won't need barrage's augment. 

13 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But all he really needs there is to get his plunder up and then he can apply corrosive for future rebuffs through his weapon

You're shooting them with a nourish incarnon torid while neutralising their armour, they're gonna be dead, mate. You can't plunder a dead man's chestplate if there's nothing left of it. 

[Skoomaseller]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I think it is because they dont seem to have liked the idea of undertow in general. Like they mentioned how it hides enemies from other players, it has afk-potential tied to it and so on. Plus WF as a game has changed over the years and the skill isnt exactly useful or beneficial to overall gameplay in any content right now.

Or like when I played with my friend and his Hydroid a few years back, where I and others interrupted his joy in the gameplay by stirring or boiling his puddle soup. Where also the question came up "what is the point of the puddle when the mobs could have just been killed faster instead?". It's a limited area, quite small, allows you to drag single targets into it, or tidal over things to catch them, leaving your original spot that you likely was in just in order to keep it safe through puddle CC to begin with. Which to me just reads as utterly pointless and counter productive.

And on defense tiles where it is most useful the mobs will likely stop long before reaching it and just shoot the objective, at which point you probably rely on your #4 to protect the target anyways. Which kinda makes undertow CC bloat in Hydroid's kit. Plus since it is defense, splashing around gathering enemies or grabbing them one-by-one from your location only results in a terribly slow completion time of the mission in the end. You'd be better of just being solid and shooting things because nothing will willingly walk into the puddle at any effective rate.

perhaps yeah, but with the upcoming rework hydroid will have an innate means of stripping armor. and unarmored enemies in undertow die in like, 3 seconds. 

5 minutes ago, (PSN)aarott said:

 You can't plunder a dead man's chestplate if there's nothing left of it. 

We plunder his ribs

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, (PSN)aarott said:

Nourish and Torid basically remove the need to have a warframe at all. Only thing Hydroid'd be contributing would be the armour from plunder, but there are frames that do that part better, and with less setup to boot.

But tell you what, if you're gonna go that route, I'll give a suggestion: subsume over Barrage instead. That way you get a status clear, bringing you just a little closer to the likes of the Rhinos and Revenants you are competing with. Take the surge augment and you'll be able to skip out on Primed Sure Footed, too.   With the energy from nourish, you'll be able to spam tentacles pretty often, and with the viral from nourish, you won't need barrage's augment. 

You're shooting them with a nourish incarnon torid while neutralising their armour, they're gonna be dead, mate. You can't plunder a dead man's chestplate if there's nothing left of it. 

Dont forget that it isnt only armor from plunder, it's ridiculously high amounts of corrosive added to your weapons aswell. Which means an even deadlier Torid with innate armor stripping aswell.

I'll check when he's released to see how well barrage performs. It could be a viable source for sustained ability based AoE damage aswell given the buffs it will recieve.

And yeah, they will very likely already be dead when we bring him to missions where the kit wont have a chance to shine or be used at all. Which is the same for nearly all frames in the roster.