Invasion missions PVP

[AegonValkyria]

Please make invasion missions PVP

Players choose Greneer or Corpus team

Players use PVP mods only

Remaining empty team slots will be filled with random AI warframes from convergences

AI warframes always hunt enemy team warframes (and stay waiting to bait another enemy team member?)

Players have to decide how to play, if they go for the mission goals and end the mission fast or stay and defend to stop enemy team of warframes

Maps will be full of regular mobs like ever

More goals can be added like capture the flag or defend the tower

[Sevek7]

Would be fun! If DE had any employees left who knew how to balance PvP

Or PvE 

😄

[BiancaRoughfin]

5 hours ago, AegonValkyria said:

Please make invasion missions PVP

Players choose Greneer or Corpus team

No because it makes no Sense Tenno fighting among them self to Support either the Grineer or the Corpus.

If you read what Invasion missions are, they are a way to balance out the power between the two major enemy factions in the game.

[Drasiel]

No, please keep your pvp peanut butter out of my pve chocolate

If you wanted this as a mode in conclave only that would be fine

[Sevek7]

8 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

No because it makes no Sense Tenno fighting among them self to Support either the Grineer or the Corpus.

If you read what Invasion missions are, they are a way to balance out the power between the two major enemy factions in the game.

Well, yeah. But the whole point is that you as a Tenno get to choose which side to support. Since there exists (canonically) more than one Tenno, it makes sense that there may be a Tenno supporting the other side who is against you. Perhaps I'm missing something here?

10 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

No, please keep your pvp peanut butter out of my pve chocolate

Holy gatekeeping Tenno!

[Drasiel]

10 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

Well, yeah. But the whole point is that you as a Tenno get to choose which side to support. Since there exists (canonically) more than one Tenno, it makes sense that there may be a Tenno supporting the other side who is against you. Perhaps I'm missing something here?

Holy gatekeeping Tenno!

This is a pve game, conclave wasn't even added until years down the line and at least has the benefit of never forcing us to play it. We've had 2 conclave events in the past and the community was absolutely apopletic about it because they felt like they needed to participate because of the prizes and they hated it with the fury of a newborn sun. 

If invasions are changed to pvp people will be pissed and out come the pitchforks and torches. People who want pvp brought into the main game never seem to understand that the pve design is why a lot of people play warframe and they never want to play pvp and especially don't want to be forced to play pvp in warframe. 

[Sevek7]

On 2022-04-01 at 12:22 PM, Drasiel said:

This is a pve game, conclave wasn't even added until years down the line and at least has the benefit of never forcing us to play it.

You're right! Wow, how could I have been so wrong??!! It's obviously true that every game should keep and improve only its initial version, never expand to new things. DE should never have tried PvP because it wasn't the original idea! You're so right!!!! Your statement is very true: Anything added "years down the line" (your words) is clearly not the original intention and should be ignored / removed.

Except....... That means they should remove things like: Pets, Relays, Dojos, Archwing, Operators, K-drives, Open worlds, Railjack, Mining, Fishing, etc...

Boy am I glad the DE staff don't share such a narrow minded view.

Look, I'll be the first to admit that DE has a terrible track record for PvP in Warframe. But that's entirely due to lack of effort, not lack of capability. They could make it work if they chose to. And since Warframe is a primarily-PvE game, the rewards from PvP should be tradeable so anyone who hates PvP can still obtain them without needing to do the PvP themselves (this is already true for 99% of non-cosmetic conclave rewards, and already true for 100% of the invasion rewards). 

There are parts of the game that I don't like, and I don't engage with them. Instead, I buy those rewards from other players using plat. Why can't PvP be the same for you?

 

[Mr.NoodleHair]

Would be fun! I loved the Kahl and Veso gameplay in the New War, so anything that brings it onto the table is a big yes from me

[Drasiel]

On 2022-04-01 at 11:33 PM, Sevek7 said:

You're right! Wow, how could I have been so wrong??!! It's obviously true that every game should keep and improve only its initial version, never expand to new things. DE should never have tried PvP because it wasn't the original idea! You're so right!!!! Your statement is very true: Anything added "years down the line" (your words) is clearly not the original intention and should be ignored / removed.

Except....... That means they should remove things like: Pets, Relays, Dojos, Archwing, Operators, K-drives, Open worlds, Railjack, Mining, Fishing, etc...

Boy am I glad the DE staff don't share such a narrow minded view.

Look, I'll be the first to admit that DE has a terrible track record for PvP in Warframe. But that's entirely due to lack of effort, not lack of capability. They could make it work if they chose to. And since Warframe is a primarily-PvE game, the rewards from PvP should be tradeable so anyone who hates PvP can still obtain them without needing to do the PvP themselves (this is already true for 99% of non-cosmetic conclave rewards, and already true for 100% of the invasion rewards). 

There are parts of the game that I don't like, and I don't engage with them. Instead, I buy those rewards from other players using plat. Why can't PvP be the same for you?

 

PVP is already that way for me because it is happily nestled over in the conclave which I don't need to participate in to make any progress in the main game. If you turn invasions into PVP on the main starmap you've made every wraith/vandal weapon, and the pre-built research resources (which are the best way to farm those) restricted to PVP content that the PVE players do not want to and will not play. You seem to have a hard time grasping that for the majority of people that start playing a PVE game PVP is completely anathema to them and they will just quit if you try to ram PVP down their throats.

I've said at least a couple times put this invasion style mission in conclave and it's all hunky dory but do not force it onto the the main starmap in a game who's main focus has always been Cooperative PVE.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2022-04-01 at 1:31 AM, Sevek7 said:

Well, yeah. But the whole point is that you as a Tenno get to choose which side to support. Since there exists (canonically) more than one Tenno, it makes sense that there may be a Tenno supporting the other side who is against you. Perhaps I'm missing something here?

Nope, 100% right

[Kontrollo]

On 2022-04-01 at 6:22 PM, Drasiel said:

This is a pve game, conclave wasn't even added until years down the line...

Let's not rewrite history here.

• Clan Dojo Duels go as far back as 2013
• Additionally, there was a hidden 2v2 PvP arena (here's even a video). That was in autumn 2013
• Old Conclave was introduced in autumn 2013, as well. In Update 10.
• We had a PvP version of Solar Rail Conflicts (Update 14.0 to Update 16.0).
• And finally, the inital version version of current Conclave was introduced in 2015 (Update 16.0).

This game had PvP modes almost since its inception. Looks like it was only 3 months in open beta before they added the Dojo Duels.

[Drasiel]

2 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Let's not rewrite history here.

• Clan Dojo Duels go as far back as 2013
• Additionally, there was a hidden 2v2 PvP arena (here's even a video). That was in autumn 2013
• Old Conclave was introduced in autumn 2013, as well. In Update 10.
• We had a PvP version of Solar Rail Conflicts (Update 14.0 to Update 16.0).
• And finally, the inital version version of current Conclave was introduced in 2015 (Update 16.0).

This game had PvP modes almost since its inception. Looks like it was only 3 months in open beta before they added the Dojo Duels.

You're kind of missing really big caveats here:

• Dojo duels are not on the starmap, not part of the main game, and relegated to side content that is entirely opt in.
• Old conclave also not on the star map, not part of the main game, and relegated to side content that is entirely opt in.
• Current Conclave also not on the star map, not part of the main game, and relegated to side content that is entirely opt in.
• Solar rail conflicts lasted 8 months out of 9 years of gameplay and was permanently removed from the game. Players also hated it because the rewards were too good to miss out on so they'd feel forced to participate and that bred even more toxicity than all the horrendous and abusable flaws in the system itself.
  • Update 14.0 July 18th, 2014 Forum Post - The Mad Cephalon
  • Update 16.0 March 19th, 2015 Forum Post

This game has always had PVP game modes as side content not part of the main game.

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

I think PvE invasions with reward after 3 clears should still remain. If you go into PvP invasion you would be eligible for the reward after a single win. The losers would still have an option to repeat PvE invasion for their reward. 

edit: On the whole I'm ambivalent about adding extrinsic PvE reward to PvP. But I'm more open with offering a PvP option as a less grindy but theoretically more skill intensive alternative to PvE grind. 

[(NSW)DracoHouston]

15 hours ago, Drasiel said:

I've said at least a couple times put this invasion style mission in conclave and it's all hunky dory but do not force it onto the the main starmap in a game who's main focus has always been Cooperative PVE.

Real Cool that everyone ignored this idea when it is the obvious way this could be implemented.

I'd love more conclave modes, maybe the NSW conclave wont be dead that way, but the idea of replacing current invasions on the star map with a pvp mode is utterly insane. 

[Kontrollo]

8 hours ago, Drasiel said:

You're kind of missing really big caveats here:

• Dojo duels are not on the starmap, not part of the main game, and relegated to side content that is entirely opt in.
• Old conclave also not on the star map, not part of the main game, and relegated to side content that is entirely opt in.
• Current Conclave also not on the star map, not part of the main game, and relegated to side content that is entirely opt in.
• Solar rail conflicts lasted 8 months out of 9 years of gameplay and was permanently removed from the game. Players also hated it because the rewards were too good to miss out on so they'd feel forced to participate and that bred even more toxicity than all the horrendous and abusable flaws in the system itself.
  • Update 14.0 July 18th, 2014 Forum Post - The Mad Cephalon
  • Update 16.0 March 19th, 2015 Forum Post

You can move the goalposts all you want, but I was responding to this (emphasis mine):

On 2022-04-01 at 6:22 PM, Drasiel said:

This is a pve game, conclave wasn't even added until years down the line

Even if you want to narrow it down to the earliest version of Conclave, that still happened in 2013.

Also, both the hidden 2v2 PvP and old Conclave were on the Star Chart. Solar Rail Conflicts were on the Star Chart, too.

 

8 hours ago, Drasiel said:

This game has always had PVP game modes as side content not part of the main game.

Mostly, yes. But Dark Sectors had all those bonus XP/resource gains already. That's what made people want to control a Rail on these nodes and tax them in the first place.

[TheMostFrench]

Hopefully they add a unique style of PVE invasion where you can play as Grineer or Corpus alongside the existing ones. The unexpected appearance of a Warframe would not be unlike how we see Stalker or Acolytes appear in current missions - We would finally know what it feels like to see a Warframe like Ash teleport around a room making everyone fall over dead.

 

EDIT: Maybe if we see more gameplay similar to something like Veso-R in the future (where we get to control other units) we might see a game mode where PvE factions fight against each other with or without Tenno and Warframes being present.