About the stackable Rivens coming.

[Hobie-wan]

1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

it is that rivens in general are wildly overpriced for what they offer. 

Supply and demand.

Without implementing some hard limit like "Rivens cannot be traded for more than 500 platinum" or "Single trade transactions cannon exceed 500 platinum" there's not really anything can be done. Even then people would just work around it by wanting to fill the rest of the spaces with other "high value" items or asking for multiple trades for a riven which of course would lead to trusting people getting scammed.

[Leqesai]

48 minutes ago, Hobie-wan said:

Supply and demand.

Without implementing some hard limit like "Rivens cannot be traded for more than 500 platinum" or "Single trade transactions cannon exceed 500 platinum" there's not really anything can be done. Even then people would just work around it by wanting to fill the rest of the spaces with other "high value" items or asking for multiple trades for a riven which of course would lead to trusting people getting scammed.

Precisely.

As I already said, the issue with rivers is largely based out of multiple layers of rng forcing extremely small numbers of worthwhile rolls. This fuels crazy supply and demand which, in turn, promotes the buying of Plat by naive players looking for ways to increase their weapon potential.

[DeeDeetheSpy]

Honestly, I would like to see Riven changed from RNG to a point-buy system. If anyone played GURPS, would be familar with this. Basiclly though: You can choose up to 3 positive stats and 1 negitive stat, then spen Kuva to increase the threashold. Certain positives cost more than other positives and certain negitives give a greater buffer than others. 

Would it lead to min-maxing? Sure. But it's better than spending hours of disapointment in an RNG time sink.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

3 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

Don't buy rivens. Play what you loot. You don't need them anyway. If you get a cool one for some weapon you like and it boosts it in a useful way, cool. If not, stop chasing some magical perfect riven.

I suppose

though that approach has the potential to diminish enjoyment in other ways

such as if you play public and get completely outperformed by people who Do Riven meta slave.

[CephalonCarnage]

Rivens aren't really overpriced - sure there are plenty trying to scam others with their 1000plat for a Drakgoon riven, but even for god-tier for a god-tier weapon you're looking ta hundreds at best. These days I think rivens for unpopular weapons are impossible to sell for 10p and its only the major ones being sold. Part of the problem there is that rivens do not really increase a bad weapons ability to be good, just less bad.

there are a few middling ones that do benefit however, but most people just don't run with them anyway.

Perhaps we need to quantity riven prices better, so n00bs can better work out what the price should be, eg I bought a twin stubbas riven recently for 60p, that's not unreasonable for a decent weapon. If you tell a n00b that a dispo 5 weapon riven should cost 25p, a dispo 4 50p, a dispo 3 75p, and a dispo 2 100p then they'll have a better baseline to work out what a fair price is and the predation might go away enough. But I doubt that, not when someone is still selling ignis wraith BPs for 50p.

[George_PPS]

On 2022-05-29 at 5:04 PM, AreeSoothsayer said:

Watching the stream about the ability for rivens to be stacked as blank rivens until you triggered them to spawn a challenge.

Why not make a plat item that allows one to reroll the challenge? When you drop the update those who have active challenge rivens will get 1 of those items for each riven challenge. Then they can choose to blank em or keep them.

This is a great idea that will further increase the Rivne’s values in the free market and also allow players one more way to use their Plat to make it easier. 

[George_PPS]

19 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

Supply and demand.

Without implementing some hard limit like "Rivens cannot be traded for more than 500 platinum" or "Single trade transactions cannon exceed 500 platinum" there's not really anything can be done. Even then people would just work around it by wanting to fill the rest of the spaces with other "high value" items or asking for multiple trades for a riven which of course would lead to trusting people getting scammed.

How do you force a Riven worth more than 5000 Platinum to just 500? So you can buy it? Who determines that? Free market system balances it out. The transaction is always negotiable and agreed by both players.

19 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Precisely.

As I already said, the issue with rivers is largely based out of multiple layers of rng forcing extremely small numbers of worthwhile rolls. This fuels crazy supply and demand which, in turn, promotes the buying of Plat by naive players looking for ways to increase their weapon potential.

How would that be an issue? This RNG factor is what makes god rolls valuable. And even among god rolls, each and every stats is not fixed and all Rivne’s are unique. I personally purchase Plat and buy Rivne’s with Plat to save time. It’s a win-win for players who don’t need these Rivne’s to sell them to players who are willing to play. This keep the Plat economy going and is good for all. 
 

For some players, maybe both of you, are not fans of Rivens. You don’t need to use them and can sell them as well. That’s another win-win because you can sell what you don’t need to players like me for you to get some Plat. 

[George_PPS]

On 2022-05-29 at 6:49 PM, Leqesai said:

The entire riven thing is too close to gambling IMO.

First layer of RNG: Riven challenge
Second layer of RNG: Riven weapon
Third layer of RNG: Riven stats
Fourth layer of RNG: amount of time it takes to roll ideal stats

Primary reason this leads to predatory trade/platinum sales: Non-moderated sales/trade of goods within Warframe. Riven prices are astronomically high for the tiny benefit they offer. Some players feel pressured into paying real money to buy rivens they are unable to get on their own due to excessive RNG.

There is no such thing as predatory trade/sales. All prices are agreed by all players who can determine what’re the best and acceptable prices. If there is moderation, who is going to moderate your trades and set prices for YOUR ITEMS? Free market is the best trading system. 

[Hobie-wan]

2 hours ago, George_PPS said:

How do you force a Riven worth more than 5000 Platinum to just 500? So you can buy it? Who determines that? Free market system balances it out. The transaction is always negotiable and agreed by both players.

You completely missed the point and context of my post there.

[Hobie-wan]

19 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

I suppose

though that approach has the potential to diminish enjoyment in other ways

such as if you play public and get completely outperformed by people who Do Riven meta slave.

I like seeing big numbers under my name on the summary screen as much as the next person, but as long as everyone in a pub at least appeared to try and participate and the mission got done, I guess I don't worry about it as much as others. *shrug*

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

On 2022-05-29 at 8:04 PM, AreeSoothsayer said:

Watching the stream about the ability for rivens to be stacked as blank rivens until you triggered them to spawn a challenge.

Why not make a plat item that allows one to reroll the challenge? When you drop the update those who have active challenge rivens will get 1 of those items for each riven challenge. Then they can choose to blank em or keep them.

But wasn't that the reason why de added riven ciphers? If you don't want to do the challenge you just unveil it, if you don't want it just sell and then use the pt to buy a new unveiled/blank riven.

[AreeSoothsayer]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

But wasn't that the reason why de added riven ciphers? If you don't want to do the challenge you just unveil it, if you don't want it just sell and then use the pt to buy a new unveiled/blank riven.

I don't want a new challenge. I want to blank the unvieled rivens so they don'tt take up riven slots when I just wanna sell em.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

25 minutes ago, AreeSoothsayer said:

I don't want a new challenge. I want to blank the unvieled rivens so they don'tt take up riven slots when I just wanna sell em.

When you say "reroll" it sounds like you want to change the challenge of the riven. As said, it's pretty easy to unlock the riven, sell it, and use the pt to buy more rivens so it wouldn't be hard to get blank rivens especially considering all rivens would be blank ones by default like the way veiled rivens are currently.

[George_PPS]

7 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

You completely missed the point and context of my post there.

You proposed price fixing, didn't you? There is no way you can force fixed prices on Rivens that are either more expensive or cheaper than the fixed price. It is not fair for anyone. 

[L3512]

11 hours ago, George_PPS said:

This is a great idea that will further increase the Rivne’s values in the free market and also allow players one more way to use their Plat to make it easier. 

Interesting to see what will happen with values for sure, it will allow people to stack more rivens for new released content but more people will be able to acquire rivens as well.

 

11 hours ago, George_PPS said:

There is no such thing as predatory trade/sales. All prices are agreed by all players who can determine what’re the best and acceptable prices. If there is moderation, who is going to moderate your trades and set prices for YOUR ITEMS? Free market is the best trading system. 

There is such a thing as predatory sales, mainly because sellers are ignorant. On the flip side this is a pretty cheap life lesson about the importance of going into a deal with knowledge on your side. Between fair buyers and sellers though, I can't see the big deal how people choose to spend plat.

[George_PPS]

24 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Interesting to see what will happen with values for sure, it will allow people to stack more rivens for new released content but more people will be able to acquire rivens as well.

 

There is such a thing as predatory sales, mainly because sellers are ignorant. On the flip side this is a pretty cheap life lesson about the importance of going into a deal with knowledge on your side. Between fair buyers and sellers though, I can't see the big deal how people choose to spend plat.

That's exactly right. I made some mistakes in trading too in the early game. Over spent Plat on certain items and even bought Rivens with defective negatives without knowing it. But I also got items I think that are well priced. Sometimes sellers just want to get rid of their items fast because time matters. On average, it equalizes long-term, and it all became part of the trade experience. Overall, free market trading is the best for everyone. 

[L3512]

12 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

That's exactly right. I made some mistakes in trading too in the early game. Over spent Plat on certain items and even bought Rivens with defective negatives without knowing it. But I also got items I think that are well priced. Sometimes sellers just want to get rid of their items fast because time matters. On average, it equalizes long-term, and it all became part of the trade experience. Overall, free market trading is the best for everyone. 

Yeah I've made mistakes as a seller so at least some folk got really good deals 🤣

Warframemarket makes it so easy for buyers that rivens are like the final frontier of trading with no one to hold your hand.

[Hobie-wan]

17 hours ago, George_PPS said:

You proposed price fixing, didn't you? There is no way you can force fixed prices on Rivens that are either more expensive or cheaper than the fixed price. It is not fair for anyone. 

Again, you should reread the entire thread for proper context.