Fix new player "progression" into Kuva Lichs/Sisters of Parvos

[Duality52]

For context, players who just finished the War Within can immediately create a Kuva Lich. Due to the significant spike in difficulty, coupled with lack of additional requirements (i,e Requiem Mods), this is a significant flaw in new player progression after the War Within.

What's just as jarring is how the Mastery Rank for Kuva/Tenet Weapons don't matter; simply pick it up from the Foundry. This also leads to a massive skip in power progression for new players. This in turn will affect one of the core values of the game for these players: exploration.

For starter, players cannot create a Kuva Lich/Sister of Parvos without the following:

• At least 5 of the 8 Requiem Mods
• Mastery Rank 12

Additionally, Kuva/Tenet Weapons must be crafted to "repair" them to ensure their Mastery Rank isn't obsolete:

• Credits
• 50 Kuva (Kuva Weapons)
• A Zenith Granum Crown (Tenet Weapons, and considering how often you fight Sisters on board Corpus Ships, this isn't too bad)
• One minute timer

[gamingchair1121]

although mr 12 is a bit high, the rest I agree with. new players are basically forced into making a lich because of how the process of getting one is

 

wait for lights to flash in decent level grineer mission

kill 10 enemies quickly

kill kuva larvling

stab kuva larvling

you now have a kuva lich. you must kill it or it takes your stuff. you also have no way to kill it. good luck

 

there also needs to be some popup similar to the new war one when making your first lich. you can't just make it so EVERY new player gets one, even if its on accident

[Drasiel]

Isn't the only method to get requiem relics from thralls/hounds or kuva siphons? I think rather than making it harder to get the requiem relics for players starting out it'd be better to just have the mastery lock and add a quest lock for building the railjack since you need one to do the final confrontation.

[Pakaku]

Like every 'difficult' content in the game, I wish there would be tests to pass before the content unlocks. Maybe you can't start Kuva Liches until you fight an early Lich. Oh, and actually explaining the process and what will happen, as if DE would ever do that...

 

[Lutesque]

You do realise That if you can't Kill The Lich You can Ignore it Right ?

If an MR 5 player wants to try their luck with Liches then let them.... They are Big Boys... They can Handle It.... And if they can't... They can Grind Somewhere else until they do....

We have enough Forced Progression Already....

[Venus-Venera]

kuva and tenet weapons are great. only for that you need formas and 1-2 mods when it comes to aoe. otherwise yes... otherwise the game is hardly fun.
and single target guns aren't that good and beginners are better off with fulmin (hello unlimited ammo), acceltra or even ignis wrath. and what do you need for ignis wrath? oh yes... you get that for free!

I think that the current concept works. because as already said: you still have to get requim mods. and railjack must be unlocked.

also new players invest in formas, weapon slots or whatever. plat is bought diligently here.

Also, almost all weapons in Warframe are USELESS! Yes! useless!!! they are for mastery points only. therefore there is absolutely no reason to make kuva/tenet difficult to access. until such weapons work at all, you have maxed out top mods and invested a lot of resources in builds or whatever.

p.s.: new secondary kills enemies on sp with 1 headshot. and I don't use sp arcane. so much for that.

[Duality52]

13 hours ago, gamingchair1121 said:

there also needs to be some popup similar to the new war one when making your first lich. you can't just make it so EVERY new player gets one, even if its on accident

A pop-up would be fine, as it will provide players the warning about engaging a Lich too early without the necessary equipment. This would be no different with players who did or didn't read the warning of entering the New War, only for them to demand DE that they can opt out of it "freely".

8 hours ago, Lutesque said:

We have enough Forced Progression Already...

7 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

Also, almost all weapons in Warframe are USELESS! Yes! useless!!! they are for mastery points only. therefore there is absolutely no reason to make kuva/tenet difficult to access. until such weapons work at all, you have maxed out top mods and invested a lot of resources in builds or whatever.

Like I said before: acquiring Kuva/Tenet weapons as of now breaks the player progression badly, to the point where you proclaim every:

7 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

almost all weapons in Warframe are USELESS

There are many interesting weapons and equipment these players could experience, but that badly gets sidelined if they get the Kuva/Tenet weapons so early like that. If they can't defeat the Lich/Sister, they can ignore or many will ask for help making the experience easier for them to get the aforementioned weapons.

Now imagine if players are given a free Ignis Wraith at the end of Vor's Prize, what will happen?

Finally, you don't need to build a Railjack to confront your Lich/Sister; you only need an Archwing at minimum. Railjack is only needed for a solo/host confrontation.

[Grommile]

11 hours ago, Lutesque said:

You do realise That if you can't Kill The Lich You can Ignore it Right ?

Sure, you can ignore it hoovering up your Gift of the Lotus drops and sitting on them like a diseased toad.

[kgabor]

They are already walled behind a grindy and repetitive process on top of Railjack.

As an MR 27 who didn't bother with either of the above too much, i think it's fine-as long as they are this grindy, they don't need even more obstructions.

I would say the grind in this game became ridiculous and new players who put through all this hassle deserve the rewards.

[Duality52]

6 hours ago, kgabor said:

They are already walled behind a grindy and repetitive process on top of Railjack.

As stated above, you only need a Railjack for a solo/host confrontation or for unlocking Sisters of Parvos. The minimum for a Kuva Lich is having an Archwing, as you can join pre-made/public groups.

6 hours ago, kgabor said:

i think it's fine-as long as they are this grindy, they don't need even more obstructions.

It's quite demoralizing for these new players to stab the Larvling as the next "shiny thing", but be woefully unprepared for what's to come. Remember, the only "tutorial" for Kuva Liches/Sisters of Parvos is from a simple text box, or worse heavy reliance on the Wiki.

Can you imagine how many players unwilling made a Lich level up to Level 5, all with very ill-equipped gear?

6 hours ago, kgabor said:

I would say the grind in this game became ridiculous and new players who put through all this hassle deserve the rewards.

The grind is one thing, but having fresh players after the War Within get these weapons (especially the Kuva Zarr/Bramma/Nukor) breaks the natural power player progression. By doing so, this kills the incentive for these players to explore the game. They will ask:

Quote

Is this (insert new weapon) better than my (Insert Kuva/Tenet weapon like the Nukor)?

Let me emphasize again that my suggestions are to:

• Protect new players after the War Within from making a Kuva Lich too early without the massive difficulty spike in dispatching one
• Stabilize the new player power/gear progression from getting Kuva/Tenet weapons too early due to how their Mastery Rank requirements are ignored.

[Lutesque]

On 2022-05-31 at 8:30 PM, Duality52 said:

Like I said before: acquiring Kuva/Tenet weapons as of now breaks the player progression badly, to the point where you proclaim every:

On 2022-05-31 at 12:30 PM, Battle.Mage said:

almost all weapons in Warframe are USELESS

And so your Solution is to just delay the inevitable? 🧐

On 2022-05-31 at 8:30 PM, Duality52 said:

There are many interesting weapons and equipment these players could experience, but that badly gets sidelined if they get the Kuva/Tenet weapons so early like that.

Clearly if people prefer the Kuva and Tenet Weapons that obviously means the others are not that Interesting....

Delaying access to then changes Nothing but people's Dissatisfaction...

On 2022-05-31 at 8:30 PM, Duality52 said:

Now imagine if players are given a free Ignis Wraith at the end of Vor's Prize, what will happen?

You do realise Ignis Wraith still became the most used Weapon Anyway....

When New players Join they get Told to Get The Ignis Wraith...

"But I'm only MR 4..."

"Then Get to MR 9 and use The Ignis Wraith."

That's how these Conversation Actually go down in the Q&A Channel and Alliance Chat in my Clan....

Your suggestion is based on the Idea that you can Force people to like Something....

Look.... You can Force them to use it.... No doubt.... But any Forced Content you place in between what players Actually want will just be seen as a Barrier that players will try to Get over as fast as possible.... You know.... Typical Human Behaviour.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On 2022-05-31 at 8:30 PM, Duality52 said:

Finally, you don't need to build a Railjack to confront your Lich/Sister; you only need an Archwing at minimum. Railjack is only needed for a solo/host confrontation.

Sadly I forgot to Test This when I started my New Account.... So Il have to Take your Word for it as there is no way for me to go back and Unbuild My Railjack....

Which Reminds me.... My MK III Vidar Reactor should be Done now... 👀

On 2022-05-31 at 11:10 PM, Grommile said:

Sure, you can ignore it hoovering up your Gift of the Lotus drops and sitting on them like a diseased toad.

I mean.... It wouldn't be much of a Vendetta if it wasn't Threatening to Nab your Umbra Forma Blueprints 😝

On 2022-06-01 at 7:41 PM, kgabor said:

They are already walled behind a grindy and repetitive process on top of Railjack.

Which just Found out is Behind literally the 2nd Last Planet in The Game.... Sedna....

Is that Right ? 

Was The War Within Quest always this far Back ? 👀

On 2022-06-02 at 2:30 AM, Duality52 said:

Can you imagine how many players unwilling made a Lich level up to Level 5, all with very ill-equipped gear?

Well... They are on Senda now.... It's time To Level Up... 😈

They even have access to Hydron to make it easier... 😝

On 2022-06-02 at 2:30 AM, Duality52 said:

Let me emphasize again that my suggestions are to:

• Protect new players after the War Within from making a Kuva Lich too early without the massive difficulty spike in dispatching one
• Stabilize the new player power/gear progression from getting Kuva/Tenet weapons too early due to how their Mastery Rank requirements are ignored.

Let me Remind you how People actually work....

They will simply Spend more Time on Hydron getting Burnt out trying to Reach the MR for those Weapons....

They already do this For The Ignis Wraith....

Atleast in its Current State it's Healthier than your Suggestion....