Eximus immune to everything plus tanky is unreasonable

[TheLexiConArtist]

15 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

 Pablo flat-out said that during their tests, Eximi felt like they were not there at all if OG allowed for CC or nukes. 

Pablo is not an unimpeachable golden god. Pablo can be wrong.

He made nullifiers which have a similar "wearing too many hats" problem to this day. He made Saryn's rework, then had that whole thing where everyone melted down because even he dared acknowledge that it was kind of busted in efficacy.

 

That statement boils down to "Using a heavy C strategy against AB!C enemies is effective". Which.. yes? That's the entire idea.
A competitive AOE damage strategy (targets B) would be equally as good against AC!B enemies.
What next? "Toxin makes shields feel like they're not there at all"? Slash procs, the same for Armour? Almost like that's their design conceit,

In comparison, that same Heavy C strategy isn't good in Disruption because of the resistances and Nulli-pulses of the Demo units - giving them strength in C.
Strictly speaking, Demo units are ABC just like Eximi are. The reason they can be tolerable is that they only spawn in a strict controlled manner - plus their A-threat is to the objective not the player, nor immediate mission fail for ONE mistake. Even then, players generally use Lockdown to secure at least some reliable (C)ontrol functionality since the threat is compounded by being more or less a set time limit to DPS race.
A Demo doesn't show up in a random mission unannounced, killing you and/or failing the mission if you don't burn it down purely by damage within 3 seconds.

Eximi certainly can do so, judging by this little chestnut I just noticed in my EE.log:

Quote

1026.903 Game [Info]: Smeeta Kavat was downed by 11,087 / 11,086 damage from a level 130 Blitz using a BlitzEximusChainBlastSuit

Sure that's level 130 so likely a sponge path mission, but 11k base damage is nothing to sneeze at, when you think about frames which have low armour and no DR buffs, or objectives which can't dodge it if it happens to be pointed that way.

[Awazx]

Completely agree with the post. +1

DE initially created a set of Warframes in turn with a set of abilities to fight specific enemies. But as time goes on those abilities become less and less usable, because more and more enemies are immune to the very abilities that were designed to fight them. It's as ridiculous as it is funny.

The real underlying problem is that DE was incompetent at balancing the game and the only "solution" they found was to (literally) take away our abilities to give the enemy a chance in combat.

All of this is part of the same line of lazy and poorly planned decisions that have brought the game to its current sorry state.

[Jarriaga]

10 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Pablo is not an unimpeachable golden god. Pablo can be wrong.

Of course he isn't an unimpeachable golden god; he designed Yareli.

I'm merely pointing out something I had not even thought of until he pointed it out: I never noticed when an Eximus was around unless it was the ice globe Eximus.  Why? Because they were all either dead or in a pile of enemies grouped-together via hard CC. There was no in-between. 

I was taking their non-presence for granted the same way I don't think about how I breathe or why I need to drink water.

It was such a common occurrence I didn't even think about the implications until Overguard was added. Ever since? I am actively hunting down an Eximus if I see it because I can no longer stand still while it passively dies or gets grouped with the rest. I now have a priority target that will kill me or do serious harm if I don't treat it like a priority.

I don't care they are unannounced.

I don't care they are uncontrolled.

They have successfully made me stop playing like they don't matter. There's no argument in which I will think of this as something negative.

[George_PPS]

16 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Of coarse he isn't an unimpeachable golden god; he designed Yareli.

 

Did I miss something? I didn't know the GREAT Pablo in charge of many nerfs(?) designed Yareli? Yareli imo is one of the most iconic new warframes as of lately. Super creative and feels good to "own" Yareli in my inventory after doing her Quest. 

[Grommile]

On 2022-06-09 at 8:23 AM, TheLexiConArtist said:

Of course you can have power-enemies that don't live long enough to use their offense-abilities.

So here's the thing:

If it's CC-immune and not very tanky, we AoE it through a wall, or oneshot it from beyond aggro range. Its abilities don't matter.

If it's tanky and not CC-immune, Zephyr casts Tornado and it blunders into the suction range and turns into a floating bag of hit points like everything else.

[Jarriaga]

46 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

Did I miss something?

In my opinion, Belle Delphine being a caster frame that prevents you from using your primary, archgun and melee while its only defensive ability is active is a very counterproductive design concept because she doesn't have the ability casting firepower necessary to compensate you not being able to use Nataruk or Tenet Arca Plasmor while Merulina is active.

At the very least all weapons should be available, with Merulina working as an exalted with its own attack animations and combos and stance with Aquablades so DE don't have to design and rework how every melee category works with Merulina.

If that is not possible then she should get a buff that makes the tradeoff well-justified to the point of being unable to use the Tenet Arca Plamor with Merulina feels fair.

[vitreloy]

57 minutes ago, Grommile said:

So here's the thing:

If it's CC-immune and not very tanky, we AoE it through a wall, or oneshot it from beyond aggro range. Its abilities don't matter.

If it's tanky and not CC-immune, Zephyr casts Tornado and it blunders into the suction range and turns into a floating bag of hit points like everything else.

Don't forget this game also about drop, if the kill is slow which mean the drop will be slow and if DE do not improve the drop rate, I can imagine new player will be "fck this game, i'm out"

[Jarriaga]

21 minutes ago, vitreloy said:

Don't forget this game also about drop, if the kill is slow which mean the drop will be slow and if DE do not improve the drop rate, I can imagine new player will be "fck this game, i'm out"

The drops are low because the game is too easy. It's no coincidence you get guaranteed one-and-done rewards in the Grendel missions, which at level 30 are significantly harder than level 300 enemies by virtue of equipment restrictions.

[Vaml77]

limbo is so uselles now....

What DE have in mind? cant understand....any change DE can kill everything like they did with railjack energy....

some guys needs to move on....thats my advice.

[vitreloy]

1 hour ago, Vaml77 said:

limbo is so uselles now....

What DE have in mind? cant understand....any change DE can kill everything like they did with railjack energy....

some guys needs to move on....thats my advice.

Eximus can hit you while you in the rift, and you can't hit enemy while you in the rift.

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

On 2022-06-09 at 7:33 PM, Lutesque said:

No it wasn't....

The whole Void Damage Gimmick was to Reset their Resistance so that you can Deal Raw Damage Again....

I don't know.... Maybe I haven't played Warframe long Enough to think this is Good Game Design.... Seems incredibly lazy....

 

Well I thought it was cool ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Slayer-.]

3 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

Well I thought it was cool ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

38 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

-slander-

I'm so offended by these libellous accusations that I'm going to respond in my native tongue. Ahem.

"I ain't done nuffin, guv".

[Slayer-.]

1 hour ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

I'm so offended by these libellous accusations that I'm going to respond in my native tongue. Ahem.

"I ain't done nuffin, guv".

Hunky-dory guv, now I’m off to Bedfordshire. 

[vitreloy]

One thing always puzzle me, for those that want a extreme hard game, why are you still modding you warframe and weapon? Isn't it ten times harder if you don't put on any mod? In this way, weaker player can enjoy the game while you still can enjoy your "extreme hard" game. Else I can't stop wander your intention are not the hard game part.

So for those that want a "challenging" game, always offended when someone saying some units in the game is unreasonable, I suggest you try 0 ranking mod on warframe and weapon first. If that is not enough, take off damage mod. If that still not enough, remove all mod. I'm sure you will get the extreme hard game you want at the same time doesn't make weaker player suffer. Win Win situation for all player.

[vitreloy]

On 2022-06-10 at 9:34 PM, Jarriaga said:

The drops are low because the game is too easy. It's no coincidence you get guaranteed one-and-done rewards in the Grendel missions, which at level 30 are significantly harder than level 300 enemies by virtue of equipment restrictions.

If you think the game is too easy, just simply don't use mod, you will get the "hard" game you are craving for.

[vanaukas]

21 minutes ago, vitreloy said:

One thing always puzzle me, for those that want a extreme hard game, why are you still modding you warframe and weapon? Isn't it ten times harder if you don't put on any mod? In this way, weaker player can enjoy the game while you still can enjoy your "extreme hard" game. Else I can't stop wander your intention are not the hard game part.

So for those that want a "challenging" game, always offended when someone saying some units in the game is unreasonable, I suggest you try 0 ranking mod on warframe and weapon first. If that is not enough, take off damage mod. If that still not enough, remove all mod. I'm sure you will get the extreme hard game you want at the same time doesn't make weaker player suffer. Win Win situation for all player.

Because most of those players want to make use of those powerful tools against powerful foes. What would be the point of farming stuff if you can't use it to enjoy the game? At that point just make a new account and never upgrade, that sounds reasonable to you?

[vitreloy]

16 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

Because most of those players want to make use of those powerful tools against powerful foes. What would be the point of farming stuff if you can't use it to enjoy the game? At that point just make a new account and never upgrade, that sounds reasonable to you?

may be DE can came out a redundant alternate path for these player, the reward is same just that everything is harder, normal player can ignore it because there is no extra loot except to quench the thirst of extreme. This concept is not new, a lot of game developer provide hell mode in their game.

[vanaukas]

13 minutes ago, vitreloy said:

may be DE can came out a redundant alternate path for these player, the reward is same just that everything is harder, normal player can ignore it because there is no extra loot except to quench the thirst of extreme. This concept is not new, a lot of game developer provide hell mode in their game.

They did it, it's called "Steel Path". When it was introduced, it didn't had any extra loot besides Steel Essence to buy very limited stuff, stuff so meaningless that "normal players" indeed ignored it to the point that the mode was almost dead on arrival. A little kuva, a few cosmetics. Nothing else.

Then those normal players also wanted to have that very limited stuff (the operator armor was the top tier reward from it). Then DE made SE easier to get, made "steel path incursions" which helped those players to match with other players because the mode was too hard for them to handle it alone.

Then normal players started to complaint because their frame/weapon of choice wasn't that good against SP enemies. Then DE helped those players with new mods from arbitrations (the step before SP) and new arcanes for their guns.

Now we've come full circle, with normal players asking for a hard mode for only " those that want a extreme hard game". How many hard modes they need to do in order to keep the game braindead easy using the gear that the game provides?

[vitreloy]

11 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

They did it, it's called "Steel Path". When it was introduced, it didn't had any extra loot besides Steel Essence to buy very limited stuff, stuff so meaningless that "normal players" indeed ignored it to the point that the mode was almost dead on arrival. A little kuva, a few cosmetics. Nothing else.

Then those normal players also wanted to have that very limited stuff (the operator armor was the top tier reward from it). Then DE made SE easier to get, made "steel path incursions" which helped those players to match with other players because the mode was too hard for them to handle it alone.

Then normal players started to complaint because their frame/weapon of choice wasn't that good against SP enemies. Then DE helped those players with new mods from arbitrations (the step before SP) and new arcanes for their guns.

Now we've come full circle, with normal players asking for a hard mode for only " those that want a extreme hard game". How many hard modes they need to do in order to keep the game braindead easy using the gear that the game provides?

As I said everything should be the same, DE shouldn't make it different. No matter how meaningless it is, there are still players like to collect things.

[Jarriaga]

1 hour ago, vitreloy said:

If you think the game is too easy, just simply don't use mod, you will get the "hard" game you are craving for.

Let me translate what you just wrote:

"It's not the developer's job to balance the game around the tools they themselves have given you. You are supposed to flat-out willingly ignore the progression system and the rewards they have designed so you can do their job for them".

Say it out loud so you can get a grasp of the level ridiculousness of your statement.

And mind you: It's not just me thinking the game is too easy. DE flat-out said, in no uncertain terms, that they added Overguard because the game is too easy. 

[vanaukas]

3 minutes ago, vitreloy said:

As I said everything should be the same, DE shouldn't make it different. No matter how meaningless it is, there are still players like to collect things.

Well, if those players want to collect those stuff, shouldn't be more reasonable that they should be able to handle those missions to collect the stuff? This is not rocket science, is just people refusing to accept any kind of challenge. THe lack of challenge is what drives away most players, because, as I've said earlier...

49 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

 What would be the point of farming stuff if you can't use it to enjoy the game? 

The cool part of this claim (lack of challenge is what drives away most players) is that isn't from me, but from devs themselves, I can't find the exact interview when they literally admit that (I think it was one with Quite Shallow, I can look into it if you want).

[vitreloy]

1 hour ago, vanaukas said:

Well, if those players want to collect those stuff, shouldn't be more reasonable that they should be able to handle those missions to collect the stuff? This is not rocket science, is just people refusing to accept any kind of challenge. THe lack of challenge is what drives away most players, because, as I've said earlier...

The cool part of this claim (lack of challenge is what drives away most players) is that isn't from me, but from devs themselves, I can't find the exact interview when they literally admit that (I think it was one with Quite Shallow, I can look into it if you want).

Frustration will also drive new and weak players away.

I had said before bullets sponge and abilities sponge is not challenge, this Sh*t only work on new and weak players.

[vanaukas]

3 minutes ago, vitreloy said:

Frustration will also drive new and weak players away.

I had said before bullets sponge and abilities sponge is not challenge, this Sh*t only work on new and weak players.

They know it well too, this is why they've been nerfing overguard and adjusting eximus values.

Also, "frustration" also drives new players to get better gear and overcome their weakness...

This is the basic design for most games:

- You start so weak that a punny thing could kill you

- get better gear/spells/abilities/whatever system is on place to fight agaisnt those enemies

- slay those enemies easily

- another set of more powerful enemeis than before appears and you are, again, weak

- you gain new stuff, so you can slay those new enemies

- repeat until "endgame"

- "Endgame": The final phase for most games, the top tier stronger enemies are there. USually also top tier gear is locked behind. New players are locked from it, becasue the enemies are too powerful. If they want that loot, they need to slay thos eenemies

You see the pattern there? Starting weak is completely intentional design on most games that involves figthing enemies.

That drievs away players? No, not at all. Hell, even single player games works like this.

[(XBOX)ConfusingEel30]

On 2022-06-06 at 9:10 AM, vitreloy said:

Eximus immune to everything plus tanky is unreasonable.

We can't get a warframe like this why should NPC had such OP permanent ability.

PS: This game is fun because we can had a lot of powerful weapon and ability to play with. If I will to play a game without using ability I will go else where.

Skill issues