The impact AoE nerf could have

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PSN)magusat999:

All an AOE weapon nerf is going to do is piss of more players. Every big nerf DE has done has made it lose player base, why they are considering this is just unthinkable. What will happen is players will leave.

that's the goal! players with gear are no longer needed because they only cause pointless traffic and don't buy anything with REAL CASH.

and another game is being developed in the background. but i'd rather buy something like an e-bike than mindlessly wasting my money in the new pointless game.

[PrimalordialBob]

If they really want to nerf AOE they're gonna have to stop throwing hoards of enemies at people. 

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

2 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Yes I was here when they nerfed Tonkor and Synoid Simulor years ago and today the game still stands. The doomsayers are long dead.

For real. Tenno will always find a way despite almost a literal decade of changes to the meta. 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PSN)LeBlingKing:

For real. Tenno will always find a way despite almost a literal decade of changes to the meta. 

what is to be found here? saryn, mag, volt etc. do it. especially saryn does damage in 3-5 rooms and pimped mag does vs ranged on sp 2-5 mil crits at a very long range 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️

and what about other warframes? they are so miserable that without top 1-3 aoe weapons you can only laugh at them......

omg........ really now........

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

3 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

what is to be found here? saryn, mag, volt etc. do it. especially saryn does damage in 3-5 rooms and pimped mag does vs ranged on sp 2-5 mil crits at a very long range 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️

and what about other warframes? they are so miserable that without top 1-3 aoe weapons you can only laugh at them......

omg........ really now........

...your point being?

[Venus-Venera]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (PSN)LeBlingKing:

...your point being?

is that a provocation or supposedly a naive question?
Or is a little respect not too much to ask?

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

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All an AOE weapon nerf is going to do is piss of more players. Every big nerf DE has done has made it lose player base, why they are considering this is just unthinkable. What will happen is players will leave. 

Mate I don't know how to tell you this but DE nerfing someone's favorite toy isn't going to nuke the player base.  I've been here since abilities were mods you had to slot in to use.  There's been whole islands worth of things that have been nerfed and Warframe not only continues to maintain a healthy population but they still get new players.  AoE specifically has been nerfed more than once from frames to melee weapons to guns and guess what?  People are still playing the game.

 

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Another Meta will eventually arise, doing the same thing - clearing the damn room of a HORDE of enemies, efficiently.

Yes, that's how online games work.  People optimize the fun out of things.  DE isn't strictly against efficiency.  They simply want the players to interact with the game more.  That's why they started their streak of reworking Warframes to begin with.

 

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We recently saw that nerfing CC (or rather buffing enemies so CC isn't as effective) just made people switch to nuke frames

The Eximus change wasn't made to make any frames more or less effective nor was it done to make other frames more desirable.  It was done to rework an old system that didn't have a place in the game anymore.  The change still falls in line with my previous statement, DE wants people to interact with the game more.  Eximus units are not mini boss material like a Nox or what have you, but they become an HvT just as nullfiers generally are.  For most players they still go down even with overguard really quickly until you're playing really difficult content.  So it's not like the change drastically effects most people who have been playing this game for a few years now.  To the players it does effect it plays right into WF's strength of picking the right piece in your arsenal to deal with a specific problem.

 

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Its almost like it has nothing to do with balancing the game, like its more or less just wiping that slate so we can all be on the hunt for something else. 

Duh?  It sounds like you don't quite understand how live service games work.  Things have to change in order to keep things moving.  This doesn't happen with only buffs.  Nerfs are equally needed to properly tease players into trying something new.  DE isn't trying and has never tried to achieve balance for the game.  Pablo straight up said they don't look to balance the game.  That doesn't mean they just behave like some sort of absent god and leave things untouched.  Warframe is an evolving game and so to must your loadout.

 

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That benefits DE - short term, because in the meanwhile frustrated players are off to play something else.

"Veterans" are not leaving WF because someone took their favorite toy from them.  Those players have so many toys and resources they can quite literally pick something else up and continue like nothing has changed.  WF is not a challenging game.  It's a glorified puzzle that we solve 20 bazillion ways with murder.  You either need to get comfortable with the idea that your favorite loadout won't always be the most comfy one or move along.  There's actual systemic issues with WF that definitely hurts it in the long run.  Wether or not your favorite nuke is suddenly gone tomorrow morning has no bearing on that and is little more than a spec in the grand scheme of the game.

[gamingchair1121]

Its called game balance. there are two weapon types, aoe and single target. aoe damages many enemies, and single target damages a single target. aoe also does more single target damage than single target does. if you don't see a problem with that go back to fortnite or something. 

also this makes more weapons viable, so you won't be pressured to use three or less weapons for every single mission.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

5 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

is that a provocation or supposedly a naive question?
Or is a little respect not too much to ask?

D. All of the above. 

Because I was simply stating the well-known fact that despite all the nerfs that Digital has thrown our way throughout the years of Warframe's timespan, its playerbase has managed to make do with the literal thousands of tools (Warframes, weapons, mods, arcanes, etc.) they have at their disposal to clear areas of enemies like a combine harvester through a field of corn. 

Enter your response.

17 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

what about other warframes? they are so miserable that without top 1-3 aoe weapons you can only laugh at them......

I wasn't referring to just Nukeframes when I said that. And just because other Warframes might require weapons to make up for their lack of AOE/DPS doesn't make them any less useful.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (XBOX)Knight Raime:

1 Mate I don't know how to tell you this but DE nerfing someone's favorite toy isn't going to nuke the player base.  I've been here since abilities were mods you had to slot in to use.  There's been whole islands worth of things that have been nerfed and Warframe not only continues to maintain a healthy population but they still get new players.  AoE specifically has been nerfed more than once from frames to melee weapons to guns and guess what?  People are still playing the game.

 

2 Yes, that's how online games work.  People optimize the fun out of things.  DE isn't strictly against efficiency.  They simply want the players to interact with the game more.  That's why they started their streak of reworking Warframes to begin with.

 

3 The Eximus change wasn't made to make any frames more or less effective nor was it done to make other frames more desirable.  It was done to rework an old system that didn't have a place in the game anymore.  The change still falls in line with my previous statement, DE wants people to interact with the game more.  Eximus units are not mini boss material like a Nox or what have you, but they become an HvT just as nullfiers generally are.  For most players they still go down even with overguard really quickly until you're playing really difficult content.  So it's not like the change drastically effects most people who have been playing this game for a few years now.  To the players it does effect it plays right into WF's strength of picking the right piece in your arsenal to deal with a specific problem.

 

4 Duh?  It sounds like you don't quite understand how live service games work.  Things have to change in order to keep things moving.  This doesn't happen with only buffs.  Nerfs are equally needed to properly tease players into trying something new.  DE isn't trying and has never tried to achieve balance for the game.  Pablo straight up said they don't look to balance the game.  That doesn't mean they just behave like some sort of absent god and leave things untouched.  Warframe is an evolving game and so to must your loadout.

 

5 "Veterans" are not leaving WF because someone took their favorite toy from them.  Those players have so many toys and resources they can quite literally pick something else up and continue like nothing has changed.  WF is not a challenging game.  It's a glorified puzzle that we solve 20 bazillion ways with murder.  You either need to get comfortable with the idea that your favorite loadout won't always be the most comfy one or move along.  There's actual systemic issues with WF that definitely hurts it in the long run.  Wether or not your favorite nuke is suddenly gone tomorrow morning has no bearing on that and is little more than a spec in the grand scheme of the game.

1 I've been playing since 2013 and I've lost a lot of top players. even whole clans were dissolved. the number of players changes. so i can't confirm the whole thing.... or how often do we see mr32 in the game?

2 not. they want players to invest as much plat in the game as possible. and players are said to be frustrated when they don't have plat etc. I can give dozens of examples. but I think that's superfluous.

3 the change makes EXTREMELY many warframes unplayable.........

4 but not here. here useless garbage is simply added and no one deals with balance. or do we see new warframes or weapons in the game? Yes! you can only laugh...

5 doesn't matter. vets take years off or do NOT come back AT ALL. if that's OK? I don't think so! because exactly such people give away top weapons, warframes and mods to new players...... or help with a mission if you see a suitable message in the lfg chat.

so who wins here?
because I don't care. i can play chess app and practice kickboxing with jujutsu in the evening. that makes a lot more sense!

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

I'm a massive powercreep user and this just needs to happen. 

It's probably not even gonna be that bad. 

Their "melee" nerf" was a 5% speed reduction....meanwhile many of us already have rivens with attack speed.

Shooting a group of enemies with a primer like Cycron or Nukor for 2 seconds then meleeing still kills Steel Path grineer and corrupted in 2 seconds. 

They are more doing this to make the whiny minority stop whining.

 

Guess what...we're still gonna steal their kills 🥰

[(PSN)Silver1593]

Dont hurt aoe 🔥🔥 just buff the 🗑 weapons . Why is there always nerf but never buff ? Inaros rework when ? Vauban got reworked multiple times but still almost nobody use him and what about skins ? Thank you we got enough excal or baruuk skins 

[Corvid]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Silver1593 said:

Dont hurt aoe 🔥🔥 just buff the 🗑 weapons .

Or they could simply rein in the outliers. Much less work for a similar result, since our gear is already massively overkill for the game's current roster of activities.

1 minute ago, (PSN)Silver1593 said:

Why is there always nerf but never buff ?

Because you have a selective memory. DE buff just as often as they nerf, if not moreso. If you want proof, look no further than the sheer escalation in average player power since open beta started. This game used to be one where even basic enemies were fairly tanky and you had to manage your resources.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

4 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

1 I've been playing since 2013 and I've lost a lot of top players. even whole clans were dissolved. the number of players changes. so i can't confirm the whole thing.... or how often do we see mr32 in the game?

I didn't state nor imply that people haven't left over changes.  I'm saying that people have been chanting doomer talk as long as the game has been around.  It holds no weight if the game is still making plenty of money and garnishing continual support.  Which it has and is.

4 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

2 not. they want players to invest as much plat in the game as possible. and players are said to be frustrated when they don't have plat etc. I can give dozens of examples. but I think that's superfluous.

If DE really wanted to scrape their playerbase for as much IRL money as possible the game would be a lot more predatory.  This doesn't even counter what it's a response to.  You're just moving the goalpost of the discussion.

4 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

3 the change makes EXTREMELY many warframes unplayable.........

Not every tool is right for every job.  If an Eximus unit occasionally blipping on screen is enough to tear your entire arsenal asunder you need to go back to the bench and retry with a different setup.

4 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

4 but not here. here useless garbage is simply added and no one deals with balance. or do we see new warframes or weapons in the game? Yes! you can only laugh...

Not even sure what you're trying to say so i'm not even going to guess at it and move along.

4 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

5 doesn't matter. vets take years off or do NOT come back AT ALL. if that's OK? I don't think so! because exactly such people give away top weapons, warframes and mods to new players...... or help with a mission if you see a suitable message in the lfg chat.

Again you're not really countering what you're quoting.  Just moving the discussion.  Players will quit over many reasons both big and trivial.  Trying to keep everyone happy is simply not an obtainable or sustainable goal.  Devs have to be okay with that and do what they think is right for their game.

4 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

so who wins here?
because I don't care. i can play chess app and practice kickboxing with jujutsu in the evening. that makes a lot more sense!

Third statement you've made that comes off as being kind of unhinged so i'm just going to save both of us some time and not respond again.  Later dude.

[(PSN)magusat999]

29 minutes ago, (XBOX)Knight Raime said:

Mate I don't know how to tell you this but DE nerfing someone's favorite toy isn't going to nuke the player base.  I've been here since abilities were mods you had to slot in to use.  There's been whole islands worth of things that have been nerfed and Warframe not only continues to maintain a healthy population but they still get new players.  AoE specifically has been nerfed more than once from frames to melee weapons to guns and guess what?  People are still playing the game.

 

Yes, that's how online games work.  People optimize the fun out of things.  DE isn't strictly against efficiency.  They simply want the players to interact with the game more.  That's why they started their streak of reworking Warframes to begin with.

 

The Eximus change wasn't made to make any frames more or less effective nor was it done to make other frames more desirable.  It was done to rework an old system that didn't have a place in the game anymore.  The change still falls in line with my previous statement, DE wants people to interact with the game more.  Eximus units are not mini boss material like a Nox or what have you, but they become an HvT just as nullfiers generally are.  For most players they still go down even with overguard really quickly until you're playing really difficult content.  So it's not like the change drastically effects most people who have been playing this game for a few years now.  To the players it does effect it plays right into WF's strength of picking the right piece in your arsenal to deal with a specific problem.

 

Duh?  It sounds like you don't quite understand how live service games work.  Things have to change in order to keep things moving.  This doesn't happen with only buffs.  Nerfs are equally needed to properly tease players into trying something new.  DE isn't trying and has never tried to achieve balance for the game.  Pablo straight up said they don't look to balance the game.  That doesn't mean they just behave like some sort of absent god and leave things untouched.  Warframe is an evolving game and so to must your loadout.

 

"Veterans" are not leaving WF because someone took their favorite toy from them.  Those players have so many toys and resources they can quite literally pick something else up and continue like nothing has changed.  WF is not a challenging game.  It's a glorified puzzle that we solve 20 bazillion ways with murder.  You either need to get comfortable with the idea that your favorite loadout won't always be the most comfy one or move along.  There's actual systemic issues with WF that definitely hurts it in the long run.  Wether or not your favorite nuke is suddenly gone tomorrow morning has no bearing on that and is little more than a spec in the grand scheme of the game.

I was going to multi quote you, but I'm just going to let it go. Someone here is protecting and manipulating our voice by merging topics without even telling people they are going to do it (they do this every time they are about to do something the masses don't like). We can make a hundred separate topics about one thing, but since they are hard bent on this AOE thing, they are merging topics so dissenting opinions gets lost as they forge ahead with that plan no matter how unpopular.

I will say this, though. Its not about Warframe "going down", I never said the game will shut down or anything like that. I said lose players. And they will lose players - they have lost a MASSIVE AMOUNT, and new players don't grow on trees. They do NOT have as many players - active players - as they have in the past, before many nerfs and other actions people didn't like. And what do you call a veteran? Ive been playing since 2013 - just not on PSN (started PC, now playing PSN). I've left and came back, yes - but 90% of the veterans, from various eras of Warframe have not.

Optimize the fun out of it, is just a regurgitation of what some DE person said. Warframe has never reached that level. Even today it is not "easy" to farm resources, and this AOE nerf is not going to help make it anymore less grindy. and while you "Duh" on DE's mission to just force us to fork up cash, you should "Duh" on the consumer's goal of NOT being a victim to that. Duh. It goes both ways, they want the money, and we want to SAVE money. You don't just lay there and take it because "that's what businesses do".

"I'm going to close my eyes and trust you don't take ALL the money from my wallet, Mr' Corporate... I trust you."

Speaking of "Duh" moments, I stated in my post that we will adapt. DUH. So talking as if I am saying Warframe will fall apart is well, duh. My point is that it's USELESS, because we will adapt. Just spinning the wheels and the only thing they will accomplish is pissing SOME people off. And lastly, I don't need a sermon on Eximus units and their purpose - I was there. I know all about them and why they were introduced already. Duh.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Silver1593:

Dont hurt aoe 🔥🔥 just buff the 🗑 weapons . Why is there always nerf but never buff ? Inaros rework when ? Vauban got reworked multiple times but still almost nobody use him and what about skins ? Thank you we got enough excal or baruuk skins 

there were very interesting posts from players here. It's a shame that hardly anyone reads them or makes a summary of them...

Unfortunately, your wishes will not be fulfilled. and you are not the only one. actually, almost everyone wants these changes!

[mycroft_]

On 2022-08-09 at 2:18 AM, -EPECb- said:

What's up with Hydroid? Why he still not playable? Nyx, where are you too? Can't see this frame for a long time now. And why does Saryn know how to accelerate? Why would she do that?? ...it's extremely irrational for her! 
...So much time has passed and you still have not brought it into the necessary balance.

On 2022-08-09 at 2:18 AM, -EPECb- said:

Where is the challenge in game? Where is the AI in enemy mobs? Where is multiplayer in this "multiplayer" game? (look at L4D to understand how a true cooperative should work!) There is no need to hone your skills in this game at the moment...

Think about what you've done with this game. Players leave your project. This game turns into a junk yard in the literal sense!

On 2022-08-09 at 2:18 AM, -EPECb- said:

The game is still in beta test, which also does not give it any advantages... most likely, DE thus relieves himself of a lot of responsibilities, but it's still not right. Testing the game for so many years and simultaneously releasing new content is ridiculous. Moreover, players through this forum report errors that happen in their "beta-game", but DE ignores most of these errors. They ignore the meaning of the BETA TEST itself! DE, test your game at the beginning, then exit the beta, and then add something new - that's correct actions. As a result, we have eternal bugs now. 

I think this is an important discussion to have!

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

1 minute ago, (PSN)magusat999 said:

I was going to multi quote you, but I'm just going to let it go. Someone here is protecting and manipulating our voice by merging topics without even telling people they are going to do it (they do this every time they are about to do something the masses don't like). We can make a hundred separate topics about one thing, but since they are hard bent on this AOE thing, they are merging topics so dissenting opinions gets lost as they forge ahead with that plan no matter how unpopular.

Yeah i'm not a fan of similar topics getting merged haphazardly.  I wouldn't go as far to say that the forum mods are manipulating or protecting anything.  That edges too close to paranoia for my liking.

1 minute ago, (PSN)magusat999 said:

I will say this, though. Its not about Warframe "going down", I never said the game will shut down or anything like that. I said lose players. And they will lose players - they have lost a MASSIVE AMOUNT, and new players don't grow on trees. They do NOT have as many players - active players - as they have in the past, before many nerfs and other actions people didn't like. And what do you call a veteran? Ive been playing since 2013 - just not on PSN (started PC, now playing PSN). I've left and came back, yes - but 90% of the veterans, from various eras of Warframe have not.

As i've mentioned elsewhere players will shelve games for a variety of reasons both big and small.  You cannot hope to please everyone as that's simply not sustainable for devs themselves and will do nothing but harm the quality of the game in the long run.  Player counts will naturally dip in live service games regardless of how good or bad the state of the game actually is.  As for what I consider a vet I don't have an answer for that as I hate the term personally.  It's just the easiest go to title that people can grasp immediately when referring to long time players.

1 minute ago, (PSN)magusat999 said:

Optimize the fun out of it, is just a regurgitation of what some DE person said. Warframe has never reached that level. Even today it is not "easy" to farm resources, and this AOE nerf is not going to help make it anymore less grindy. and while you "Duh" on DE's mission to just force us to fork up cash, you should "Duh" on the consumer's goal of NOT being a victim to that. Duh. It goes both ways, they want the money, and we want to SAVE money. You don't just lay there and take it because "that's what businesses do".

You can view it that way if you must but it doesn't change how WF is played.  The game has pretty much always lent itself to solving a problem rather than using mechanical skill to complete a task.  Also i'm not asking people to never voice their distaste of something.  I'm stating that live service games work by pushing people to try new things.  This is never going to be accomplished without downward adjustments to some capacity.  Believing otherwise is just naivete.

1 minute ago, (PSN)magusat999 said:

"I'm going to close my eyes and trust you don't take ALL the money from my wallet, Mr' Corporate... I trust you."

Slander just gets you a mute on my end man.  Just because I disagree with the current topic or it's points doesn't mean I blindly follow DE nor does it mean I don't have any issues with the game myself.  I'm not a new poster and I did initially quit when Railjack first dropped.  I recently came back this month.

1 minute ago, (PSN)magusat999 said:

Speaking of "Duh" moments, I stated in my post that we will adapt. DUH. So talking as if I am saying Warframe will fall apart is well, duh. My point is that it's USELESS, because we will adapt. Just spinning the wheels and the only thing they will accomplish is pissing SOME people off. And lastly, I don't need a sermon on Eximus units and their purpose - I was there. I know all about them and why they were introduced already. Duh.

If you don't want people assuming you're speaking doomer then perhaps you should learn to state your opinions better.  Because talking about losing population is basically what doomers use to inflate their arguments when they don't have a leg to stand on.  It's really not useless because it's accomplishing what DE wants to do.  Something you seemingly failed to grasp in my initial response.  That also goes with your response about my Eximus point.  If you're aware then I wouldn't have to explain anything.  But since you're being needlessly combative/flippant i'm just not going to respond further.  Have a good one dude.

[mycroft_]

9 minutes ago, (XBOX)Knight Raime said:

I wouldn't go as far to say that the forum mods are manipulating or protecting anything.

There's no other explanation. Why would they merge a wider conversation about problems with the game, into a narrow discussion about AoE meta?

It was to kill the wider conversation, even though that conversation didn't violate the forum guidelines. They didn't like it, so they shoved it into a thread with 800 replies and an inflammatory title so the more important conversation would die.

This is bad moderation, especially when we don't know who did it. Maybe if we did we could ask them about it. But we don't ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

35 minutes ago, mycroft_ said:

Why would they merge a wider conversation about problems with the game, into a narrow discussion about AoE meta?

 

This is bad moderation, especially when we don't know who did it. Maybe if we did we could ask them about it. But we don't ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Trying to guess one's motivations for something they did is a pitfall that you'll never best.  So I don't bother myself with such things.

And there's a pretty clear difference between bad moderation and accusing them of something malicious.  But this is both off topic and not something I care to discuss.

 

Good day.

[mycroft_]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Knight Raime said:

And there's a pretty clear difference between bad moderation and accusing them of something malicious.  But this is both off topic and not something I care to discuss.

It's actually not off-topic. DE decided the topic of this thread was "DE, pls, fix and balance all we have in this game at this moment. Make time for it." as well as "The impact AoE nerf could have"

I want them to fix and balance all we have in the game at this moment. I want them to make time for it.

[trst]

2 hours ago, mycroft_ said:

There's no other explanation. Why would they merge a wider conversation about problems with the game, into a narrow discussion about AoE meta?

It was to kill the wider conversation, even though that conversation didn't violate the forum guidelines. They didn't like it, so they shoved it into a thread with 800 replies and an inflammatory title so the more important conversation would die.

This is bad moderation, especially when we don't know who did it. Maybe if we did we could ask them about it. But we don't ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

If they didn't merge threads then half of this sub forum would be threads about AOE, potential nerfs, and Wukong. Which thus far have all devolved into the same back and forth arguments anyways before they started merging them. All of which is also relatively pointless clutter on this forum anyways as this isn't even one of the feedback forums.

Also if anyone at DE does intend on gathering player opinions on such topics, or a mod intends on forwarding said information to DE, then it gets grouped in the same place like they do with megathreads.

[mycroft_]

Just now, trst said:

If they didn't merge threads

I'm not saying they should never merge threads.

I'm saying they should not merge WILDLY DIFFERENT threads inappropriately, effectively killing one of the conversations. That's bad.

A thread about issues with development should not be merged with a thread about AoE and AoE only. That's bad.

[mycroft_]

See? The thread is dead.

I am concerned by this kind of action.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb mycroft_:

See? The thread is dead.

I am concerned by this kind of action.

Chewing gum no longer tastes good after a while. 😉
was nice to discuss with you. it would be even better if it had some impact on the "great" decisions made by devs.