Rework, Buffs and Nerfs Wont Fix The Game

[kadolaflare]

Many people in the Warframe community are mindlessly convinced that buffs and reworks to their favorite or least favorite frames will make the game more enjoyable.

This is false

Regardless of whether some frames get buffed or not, the overall of the game experience is still the same. EVERY FRAME IN THE GAME could be equally powerful, it would still not change the experience of the game, this would only be a quick band aid to appease the current player base.

If Inaros gets buffed, does that make you wanna farm for more resources? No, why? The overall experience is still the same.

If yareli gets buffed, will that make you play the game 4 days a week instead of 3? No, why? The overall experience is still the same.

This is something you focus on after you've fixed the main problem. (Increasing Player Count)

___ __ ___ _____ __ _____ ____ __ ___

Warframes Current Problem

Content is taking way too long to be released.

This is a free to play game, as such, player retention needs to be high. Why? When players first start playing the game the initial investment is 0. What does this mean? This means whenever players have the slightest reason to quit the game, they will.  With P2P (Pay-2-Play) games players have already invested into the game so the chances that they will quit are smaller.

Problem #2

Small Workforce

As it stands, the current workforce of Digital Extremes is only 300+. With all the external projects they are currently working on god knows how many people are actually still working on warframe. 

 

Solution

Digital Extremes needs to make more money. How?

The best thing for digital extremes to do is to create another system in the game that they can benefit from monetarily (Make $ From).

What System?

Pets.

Yes, Pets. This is the perfect thing for digital extremes to implement into the game to create an influx of cash. They can add pet skins to the store that's strictly cosmetic that you can't buy with platinum.

They already have pets in the game, just make them useable in relays and give them some cool effects.

With the increase in cash flow from these transactions more developers can be hired. 

More Developers = More Updates = Increase Player Retention = Increase In Player Count = More Money = More Devs (NEVER ENDING CYCLE)

Then later in if they really care about the game as they say, they could expand on this pet system to include pet combat and other things such as bringing dungeons into the game or the return of raids.

 

 

Also, please just remove conclave out of the game. No one plays it.

 

[cute_moth.npc]

K-Drive for pets will save Warframe!!

[SpicyDinosaur]

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

8 minutes ago, kadolaflare said:

Also, please just remove conclave out of the game. No one plays it.

[Joezone619]

Skimming through it, i agree with some, disagree with others.

Warframe definatly needs a bigger workforce, this will help them release content faster. But many frames DO need reworks, not just to make them more enjoyable, but to scale them up to the level warframes are at now. Trinity, Nyx, Limbo, Frost, Ember, many frames are under performing right now compared some of the more recent (i use that loosely) frames like Hildrn, Xaku, Khora.

IMO i think they should shift from releasing "new content + new frame" to "new content + rework" for a while until all the old frames are sufficiently caught up. With releasing "new content + rework", they won't need to think up a whole new idea for a frame, make new models, new animations, alt helmets, etc, it will be a lot less work since the majority of it already exists when reworking a frame as apposed to making a new one. They could probably get 2-3 done with a model like that.

[kadolaflare]

3 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

Skimming through it, i agree with some, disagree with others.

Warframe definatly needs a bigger workforce, this will help them release content faster. But many frames DO need reworks, not just to make them more enjoyable, but to scale them up to the level warframes are at now. Trinity, Nyx, Limbo, Frost, Ember, many frames are under performing right now compared some of the more recent (i use that loosely) frames like Hildrn, Xaku, Khora.

IMO i think they should shift from releasing "new content + new frame" to "new content + rework" for a while until all the old frames are sufficiently caught up. With releasing "new content + rework", they won't need to think up a whole new idea for a frame, it will be a lot less work, they could probably get 2-3 done with a model like that.

I completely they agree that yes, they do need to rework a lot of frames but In this post I'm simply thinking about what's more important for the growth of the game.

 

Like I said in the post, all the frames could be equally balanced, It would still not make people want to play the game.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

I find it hilarious how up in arms the community is over something that hasn't even happened yet. Lmao 🤣🤣🤣

[kadolaflare]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

I find it hilarious how up in arms the community is over something that hasn't even happened yet. Lmao 🤣🤣🤣

Elaborate

[SpicyDinosaur]

18 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

Skimming through it, i agree with some, disagree with others.

Warframe definatly needs a bigger workforce, this will help them release content faster. But many frames DO need reworks, not just to make them more enjoyable, but to scale them up to the level warframes are at now. Trinity, Nyx, Limbo, Frost, Ember, many frames are under performing right now compared some of the more recent (i use that loosely) frames like Hildrn, Xaku, Khora.

IMO i think they should shift from releasing "new content + new frame" to "new content + rework" for a while until all the old frames are sufficiently caught up. With releasing "new content + rework", they won't need to think up a whole new idea for a frame, make new models, new animations, alt helmets, etc, it will be a lot less work since the majority of it already exists when reworking a frame as apposed to making a new one. They could probably get 2-3 done with a model like that.

wow something good came out of this thread. I can agree with this. Now we need a way to get an active feedback thread on it in the feedback section so DE actually notices it and maybe considers it.

[kadolaflare]

6 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

wow something good came out of this thread. I can agree with this. Now we need a way to get an active feedback thread on it in the feedback section so DE actually notices it and maybe considers it.

Thats what I want for christmas

[Tyreaus]

There's a saying:

Too many cooks spoil the broth.

As much as we want to say "add more people", you don't get linear returns with staffing. For one, you end up with a pyramid structure of some sort, managers and managers of managers, to organize the people. For two, there's only so much game. You're going to put Edgar on line 3 of the code behind Ash and Walter on line 5? It doesn't work. Lastly, you have information bottlenecks. Someone in that pyramid has to collate data and dictate the direction of the game. That person can only go so fast. It doesn't matter if they have an army of underlings at their disposal, somebody has to be looking at the situation and giving the order. That takes time. Bottlenecks exist all over the place. They're called code dependencies. You can't async develop everything.

And that doesn't even get into player retention at start. You really think a player just starting in Warframe is going to so much as notice the deployment rate of updates when they have years worth of content to get through, let alone be bothered by that? That's a veteran problem. Nobody starting out is going to so much as bat an eye.

And the state of the game being the same so the solution is to...keep the state of the game the same. But with more people working on it.

Seems to be a few segues missing...

[gamingchair1121]

44 minutes ago, kadolaflare said:

Yes, Pets. This is the perfect thing for digital extremes to implement into the game to create an influx of cash. They can add pet skins to the store that's strictly cosmetic that you can't buy with platinum

hmm...

[kadolaflare]

1 minute ago, gamingchair1121 said:

hmm...

If you can buy it with platinum, that will reduce the the amount of cash they make. Basically this will ruin the whole operation.

Pets are a niche thing, so its perfect. Only people who care about it will get it.

[Tyreaus]

2 minutes ago, kadolaflare said:

If you can buy it with platinum, that will reduce the the amount of cash they make. Basically this will ruin the whole operation.

Pets are a niche thing, so its perfect. Only people who care about it will get it.

Question:

How does one generate plat without buying it? I don't mean trading because that's just existing plat changing hands. I mean generating plat into circulation.

[SpicyDinosaur]

2 minutes ago, kadolaflare said:

If you can buy it with platinum, that will reduce the the amount of cash they make. Basically this will ruin the whole operation.

Pets are a niche thing, so its perfect. Only people who care about it will get it.

I think his comment was because Tennogen is a thing, which, you know, is a cosmetic that you can't buy with platinum.

 

I often wonder how much self awareness there is when making a thread like this.

[kadolaflare]

4 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

There's a saying:

Too many cooks spoil the broth.

As much as we want to say "add more people", you don't get linear returns with staffing. For one, you end up with a pyramid structure of some sort, managers and managers of managers, to organize the people. For two, there's only so much game. You're going to put Edgar on line 3 of the code behind Ash and Walter on line 5? It doesn't work. Lastly, you have information bottlenecks. Someone in that pyramid has to collate data and dictate the direction of the game. That person can only go so fast. It doesn't matter if they have an army of underlings at their disposal, somebody has to be looking at the situation and giving the order. That takes time. Bottlenecks exist all over the place. They're called code dependencies. You can't async develop everything.

And that doesn't even get into player retention at start. You really think a player just starting in Warframe is going to so much as notice the deployment rate of updates when they have years worth of content to get through, let alone be bothered by that? That's a veteran problem. Nobody starting out is going to so much as bat an eye.

And the state of the game being the same so the solution is to...keep the state of the game the same. But with more people working on it.

Seems to be a few segues missing...

As players of the game, their pipeline is not our problem. 

Also this isn't an excuse to have content updates once a year. 

Look at apex legends. 

Free to play and Updated every 3 months.

What is the result? Top 3 Games on Steam

The reason this is possible is because of the cosmetic microtransactions they have in the game. 

Money = Faster Updates

 

---

 

Also, player numbers play a HUGE factor into why new players would even want to try a video game.

 

No one wants to play a dead game.

 

Nowadays war frame is getting a very small amount of new players and even then they're not retaining them.

 

This is why you add the pet system at a major update to bring people back, make money from cosmetics, drop updates sooner because of more workfroce, retain playeyers because of updates.

[Marvelous_A]

Warframe is probably among the games that have the most content updates per year. And warframes ARE the experience of the game. You literally play this game for warframes, not grinding.

[kadolaflare]

27 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

Question:

How does one generate plat without buying it? I don't mean trading because that's just existing plat changing hands. I mean generating plat into circulation.

Yes you can buy plat we all know this. But like I said around 3x now. If you make it available for plat, you will in a sense, dig your own grave. 

 

People can earn plat for completely free in the game, thus if you allow the usage of plat, you will lose out.

 

24 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Warframe is probably among the games that have the most content updates per year. And warframes ARE the experience of the game. You literally play this game for warframes, not grinding.

You do realize warframes content updates are 1 quest and 1 new faction to grind for right?

(Which can be done in a week)

What happens when you finish that.

[PublikDomain]

51 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

K-Drive for pets will save Warframe!!

Well, at least it's a new take.

[kadolaflare]

53 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

K-Drive for pets will save Warframe!!

TO be honest you may not be far off. 

K-Drive pet cosmetics

Why not?

[quxier]

1 hour ago, kadolaflare said:

Many people in the Warframe community are mindlessly convinced that buffs and reworks to their favorite or least favorite frames will make the game more enjoyable.

This is false

Then you are thinking that reworks are just "+N to given stat/ability". FALSE. haha

7 minutes ago, kadolaflare said:

This is why you add the pet system at a major update to bring people back, make money from cosmetics, drop updates sooner because of more workfroce, retain playeyers because of updates.

In order for pet to be good thing to invest you have to make them good. Giving us real-money-only skins (armors & stuffs like this) isn't too much to make more money. It's already there in some form. I don't think it will make that much money to make more frequent (and better) updates.

[Marvelous_A]

6 minutes ago, kadolaflare said:

You do realize warframes content updates are 1 quest and 1 new faction to grind for right?

(Which can be done in a week)

What happens when you finish that.

Try out new equipment combinations? Try new weapon builds? Try out new warframes (and I mean actual builds and plays not get them to lvl 30 and leave them in the inventory)?

 

These are what you are supposed to be doing in a grind game. Obviously it's on DE for making the game too easy and braindead by leaving OP stuff like AFK warframes and AoE weapons unfixed, but I don't see how new content is going to help if every player is just going to grind new things then go back to Wukong and Kuva Ogris while having hundreds of gears not tried out yet.

[kadolaflare]

10 minutes ago, quxier said:

Then you are thinking that reworks are just "+N to given stat/ability". FALSE. haha

In order for pet to be good thing to invest you have to make them good. Giving us real-money-only skins (armors & stuffs like this) isn't too much to make more money. It's already there in some form. I don't think it will make that much money to make more frequent (and better) updates.

That's also something DE has to worry about, not us players. They make cool enough warframe skins, all  they have to do is replicate some prime warframe skins and create a pet skin out of it. Know you have players who are collectors who want to match it their warframe. It may not make millions of dollars but It would certainly be an increase than what they have now.

 

6 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Try out new equipment combinations? Try new weapon builds? Try out new warframes (and I mean actual builds and plays not get them to lvl 30 and leave them in the inventory)?

 

These are what you are supposed to be doing in a grind game. Obviously it's on DE for making the game too easy and braindead by leaving OP stuff like AFK warframes and AoE weapons unfixed, but I don't see how new content is going to help if every player is just going to grind new things then go back to Wukong and Kuva Ogris while having hundreds of gears not tried out yet.

Regardless even if all the frames are equally balanced, some players will STILL only play ONE warframe. Even if its just purely cosmetic reasons.

And also you do need to remember that their are 2 different types of players. 

Casuals and Hardcore players

 

Fora Hardcore player the game may be easy but for casuals steel path is extremely difficult.

[Tyreaus]

12 minutes ago, kadolaflare said:

As players of the game, their pipeline is not our problem. 

You're right. Their pipeline isn't our problem.

So let's not be prescriptive and say what they do or don't need.

That's not our problem, after all. 

13 minutes ago, kadolaflare said:

No one wants to play a dead game.

Ah, I forgot Warframe was dead. Thank you for the reminder. I shall get the defibrillator post-haste.

12 minutes ago, kadolaflare said:

Yes you can buy plat we all know this. But like I said around 3x now. If you make it available for plat, you will in a sense, dig your own grave. 

 

People can earn plat for completely free in the game, thus if you allow the usage of plat, you will lose out.

Right, of course. But what if we...hear me out...took out the ways to generate plat into circulation for free? They're all DE-controlled, after all, and if they're so strapped for cash, there's nothing stopping them from ceasing that flow.

Unless there's some super secretive way to generate plat for free without DE's permission. Like I asked...?

Also, you kind of miss the part of willingness to pay in the whole equation. Which do you think players are more willing to do: drop about $13 USD for a rename, or drop 200 plat? Spoiler: it's the plat, because that particular player doesn't need to buy the plat to use it. More people are able to use plat than pay directly. And, crucially, it makes no difference to DE's pocketbook: 200 plat is $13USD. If it's the plat, that just means they got that $13USD at some point in the past, rather than right now.

(Funny enough, the plat route is actually better, financially. You get the money earlier, you invest it, you get interest for a longer period of time. Little trick, that.)

So you're basically saying, "let's use the method that gets fewer people purchasing the same good for the same price." So instead of, say, 200 sales, you're cutting it down to 150. For the same $13USD per sale. A net profit of - let me do some math here - $2,600USD for 200 sales vs $1,950USD for 150 sales.

Whoops, you just lost the company a potential profit $650USD. Oh no.

[Marvelous_A]

9 minutes ago, kadolaflare said:

Regardless even if all the frames are equally balanced, some players will STILL only play ONE warframe. Even if its just purely cosmetic reasons.

And also you do need to remember that their are 2 different types of players. 

Casuals and Hardcore players

 

Fora Hardcore player the game may be easy but for casuals steel path is extremely difficult.

Then why are you asking for more content when you never actually try the old content?