AoE and Gameplay

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

tbh I'm glade the the aoe weapons are getting nerfed, it`s annoying and disruptive to other ppl, in sp idc coz idl sp and I want the mission to be over asap but when it gets to the point where ppl are using it in normal missions when they don`t need to that`s a problem and yet you had ppl complaining that Ash took ppl kills and I be those same ppl are using aoe weapons and have no issue with this dumb meta.

I normally Disagree with Comments like these but Something Funny Happened Last Weekend.... 

So I'm Ducat Farming for Baro's next Visit which means Extermination Fissures A Plenty..... And sure enough the Thermal Sunder Titania Meta is starting to Catch on....

So as Expected Titania is killing Everything and we're all Walking Behind her through a sea Of Corpses..... So far everything is... Well normal isn't the right word but it's what I expected.... Where things got Interesting was After we all got Reactant and the Objective was Complete.... Rather than Waiting for us at Extraction... Titania was still Murdering Everybody on the Way There.

Why ?

Like.... Can someone Explain that to me 🤔 ?

[GinjaNinjaa]

For anyone that says aoe weapons is overpowered, over performing or blah blah blah. I'm wondering whats your definition of overpowered? If a weapon thats only good for low level (lvl 1-150ish) general/daily mission plays, I dont think it should be considered as overpowered. Would you take a zarr hunt Eidolons? Would you take a bramma to a lvl 9999 disruption mission? I dont think a zarr is even viable against a high lvl Acolytes. There are weapons that can 1 shot lvl 9999 enemies, and nobody is calling them out? The only thing in my opinion that needs to be fixed about aoe weapons is its visuals, and maybe line-of-sights. 

[Tyreaus]

3 minutes ago, GinjaNinjaa said:

I'm wondering whats your definition of overpowered?

I'll take a definition of "overperforming" over "overpowered" - because everything's overpowered in Warframe and I don't think "power" is really the most apt descriptor for the issues people are discussing. "Overperforming" would be a single or very small subset of assets that dominate alternatives across a substantial majority of gameplay. Colloquially, and loosely, summarized as being "the meta pick everywhere".

With that definition in mind, the majority of the game is "low level", encompassing SO and ESO, all fissures, all quests, Arbitrations, Eidolons, Steel Path alerts _{by a slight technicality of not paying attention to the health and armour modifiers}, every syndicate, and Sorties. Out of that list, it's only really the Eidolons that high-tier AoE weapons struggle against, due largely to hitbox shenanigans against AoE in general. So that looks like a pretty healthy majority of the game where AoE is, as you put it, good. And with the game being a horde shooter, it's not just AoE being good, but being a preferred pick in general.

[Venus-Venera]

vor einer Stunde schrieb GinjaNinjaa:

For anyone that says aoe weapons is overpowered, over performing or blah blah blah. I'm wondering whats your definition of overpowered? If a weapon thats only good for low level (lvl 1-150ish) general/daily mission plays, I dont think it should be considered as overpowered. Would you take a zarr hunt Eidolons? Would you take a bramma to a lvl 9999 disruption mission? I dont think a zarr is even viable against a high lvl Acolytes. There are weapons that can 1 shot lvl 9999 enemies, and nobody is calling them out? The only thing in my opinion that needs to be fixed about aoe weapons is its visuals, and maybe line-of-sights. 

kuva zarr can already kill aco on sp. only the thing needs top mods, maxed arcanes, possibly also riven and very strong dmg/reload buffs. (maybe even armor strip skill) and that's even possible if you double ammunition.
But if you have all that, then most single target weapons perform much better when it comes to single targets in the high lvl range.

and for low lvl content, ignis wrath is MUCH better if you are a beginner. even I see a minimal difference.
and with ignis wrath you can do without primed sure footed and optimize everything completely for speed run.

clowns crying out in tears for nerfs either don't play the game or don't know much about it.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

just gonna point out that one of the main reasons you see AoE isn't just because they are using their "favorite" weapons. some people like big booms at that's fine, but if you dig deeper, you'll see there's another reason why people go down the AoE route:

because they want to get stuff done quickly. why? because they aren't having fun, or feeling like they are getting rewarded for their time. 

fun is subjective of course, but at some point a player is going to say something along the lines of "ugh, it's a X mission, just gonna take my Bramma/Zarr and get this over with". I've done this myself, and I'd wager most of you have done this at least once. people usually want to get things done quickly to get them out of the way, because it's not something they enjoy but still feel like they have to do it. 

what I'm saying is, reigning in AoE power is one thing, but player engagement is also linked to the AoE meta,. and that needs to be addressed as well. 

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

7 hours ago, ReddyDisco said:

sounds like many are asking for a saryn nerf

Actually, people are asking for a Wukong nerf atm

[PrimalordialBob]

53 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Actually, people are asking for a Wukong nerf atm

Not really people, but rather an outspoken minority. Same with the AOE guns. Most don't care, it's just vets/hardcore gamers making a ruckus. Others, besides hardcores, may care about the wild AOE energy/loud sounds, but DE can fix that by creating options to ignore teammate weapon noise/energy (I'm aware they have a setting for team mate energy, but it doesn't work very well as you may or may be not aware of).

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

13 hours ago, ReddyDisco said:

sounds like many are asking for a saryn nerf

I don't think she needs a direct "nerf" but she does have some weird interactions that really seem unintended and/or are not working properly. So she's one of the many, many frames who could use a second look. Pablo's stated before that he's not exactly happy with how she's turned out. Forums threw a fit about it of course, but just because DE has thrown in multiple layers of powercreep over powercreep doesn't mean the older layers should be free from scrutiny or critique. 

[(XBOX)Kuhl MC]

Hmm, if you have not played with clanmates, who use "neon green" on their Shedu or "bright white" on their Stahlta (which makes a flashbang look like a kindergarden), you have not experienced REAL screen clutter yet, just saying...

[sherif3000]

I refuse to believe this is the “Warframe Co-Op Experience”. With all the weapons and choices, operators etc. I barely play anymore due to RL matters so when I do I let my mind drift into Warframe combat mode. But recently I had to leave squads cause I couldn’t handle the screen effects that coupled with AoE nuke weapon…there is no game to be played….Anyhow thanx guys for allowing me to get this off my chest.

 

[Tiltskillet]

12 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

I'll take a definition of "overperforming" over "overpowered" - because everything's overpowered in Warframe and I don't think "power" is really the most apt descriptor for the issues people are discussing. "Overperforming" would be a single or very small subset of assets that dominate alternatives across a substantial majority of gameplay.

Well said.

[Lutesque]

11 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

what I'm saying is, reigning in AoE power is one thing, but player engagement is also linked to the AoE meta,. and that needs to be addressed as well. 

I totally Agree.... Sadly DE has never ever shown any Interest in Addressing player Engagement.... For Better or Worse The Definition of Fun in Warframe is Making Unfun Missions much Shorter.... That is all.

 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2022-08-23 at 9:09 AM, Lutesque said:

I normally Disagree with Comments like these but Something Funny Happened Last Weekend.... 

So I'm Ducat Farming for Baro's next Visit which means Extermination Fissures A Plenty..... And sure enough the Thermal Sunder Titania Meta is starting to Catch on....

So as Expected Titania is killing Everything and we're all Walking Behind her through a sea Of Corpses..... So far everything is... Well normal isn't the right word but it's what I expected.... Where things got Interesting was After we all got Reactant and the Objective was Complete.... Rather than Waiting for us at Extraction... Titania was still Murdering Everybody on the Way There.

Why ?

Like.... Can someone Explain that to me 🤔 ?

And that right there is why I don`t like the helminth system, I never liked it when I first saw it at tenno con and when ppl  talk about it on youtube and won`t shut up DE is going to get wind of it and nerf it. If DE said they were going to remove the helminth system I won`t shed a tear.

[Venus-Venera]

Am 23.8.2022 um 22:24 schrieb (XBOX)Kuhl MC:

Hmm, if you have not played with clanmates, who use "neon green" on their Shedu or "bright white" on their Stahlta (which makes a flashbang look like a kindergarden), you have not experienced REAL screen clutter yet, just saying...

What a tragedy!
and don't forget bubonico....
and the guy with a chainsaw behind our backs forcing us to play short missions in pubs.

 

[Kaggelos]

On 2022-08-21 at 3:52 PM, Venus-Venera said:

. so have fun with kuva zarr with 5 ammo, bugged "line of sight" mischief and selfdamage (selfkill) changes.

That sounds like a possible solution to many of us.

Which it is.

In every single game out there.

Warframe isnt immune to player's taking advantage of overwhelming power. God mode is boring, something needs to keep us in check, to keep things interesting. if i have unlimited access to my super explosive BFG and erase everything all the time, where's the fun in that? You need some down time as well.