Megathreads are annoying.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

It's super annoying when people ask questions or give feedback on a topic only for it to get lumped into a megathread where nobody will ever see it. 

I'd give examples but then I'll get lumped into a megathread.  ;b

[trst]

How is lumping relevant discussion into a single thread worse than having a dozen or more separate threads? Especially when the separate ones inevitably end up with the same talking points rehashed in each.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

6 minutes ago, trst said:

How is lumping relevant discussion into a single thread worse than having a dozen or more separate threads? Especially when the separate ones inevitably end up with the same talking points rehashed in each.

Because then you get a thread with 2000 comments where absolutely no one will see your comment. 

And as I said, this affects questions. The reason why I made this post is because I saw a post asking a question about multiplayer across platforms get rerouted to where nobody will ever see it.

[Tiltskillet]

➕1️⃣

 

1 minute ago, trst said:

How is lumping relevant discussion into a single thread worse than having a dozen or more separate threads? Especially when the separate ones inevitably end up with the same talking points rehashed in each.

I can see some value in it, used with, uh, moderation.  But they've been going too far with it more often, IMO.    Topics that are about slightly different things each get watered down, and conversations inside the threads start making less sense.  And the more threads get schmushed together, and the bigger they end up, the worse those issues get.

I think there's always pros and cons with merging threads.  I just feel like I'm seeing more cases where I wish they'd used a lighter hand.

[trst]

15 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Because then you get a thread with 200 comments where absolutely no one will see it. 

And as I said, this affects questions. The reason why I made this post is because I saw a post asking a question about multiplayer across platforms get rerouted to where nobody will ever see it.

And how would nobody see it? The devs are aware of megathreads so feedback is put in a place they can see it. As for player questions those threads can still come up in the search system and search engines. Something that players should be using instead of making new threads for questions they could have answered in seconds on google.

As for things being merged into the crossplay thread; there are no questions anyone can be asking about it that isn't answered by the first post of that thread or by googling the question. Because there is no information about it aside from of they're still working on it and have started the process of implementing it.

 

14 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I can see some value in it, used with, uh, moderation.  But they've been going too far with it more often, IMO.    Topics that are about slightly different things each get watered down, and conversations inside the threads start making less sense.  And the more threads get schmushed together, and the bigger they end up, the worse those issues get.

I think there's always pros and cons with merging threads.  I just feel like I'm seeing more cases where I wish they'd used a lighter hand.

But are they different enough to justify having a dozen or more different threads on the exact same topic? From what I've seen when users were spamming out AOE and Wukong threads none of them were actually a different topic and devolved into the same points as users bounced between threads and bringing their arguments in.

[Genitive]

Megathreads are not for us, but for the devs. Would you rather have all relevant feedback in one place, or scattered around a dozen threads in several sections?

[TARINunit9]

52 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

And as I said, this affects questions. The reason why I made this post is because I saw a post asking a question about multiplayer across platforms get rerouted to where nobody will ever see it.

Any question that can't be answered in Players Helping Players has already been answered. That's why the megathread lumping happens

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

15 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Megathreads are not for us, but for the devs.

That would fine, if the Devs actually engaged in the mega threads.

As it is now, merging feels more like the Devs saying they don't care, put it on the Ignore Pile with the rest.

 

yeah, feeling ignored by Devs is a PR problem they need to work on

[Dunkelheit]

I think people opening up new threads without looking at a lot of other threads about the same topic which already exists, are more annoying.

[TARINunit9]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

That would fine, if the Devs actually engaged in the mega threads.

As it is now, merging feels more like the Devs saying they don't care, put it on the Ignore Pile with the rest.

 

yeah, feeling ignored by Devs is a PR problem they need to work on

This implies that you must respond to a thread to declare you have taken the information into account

Which is false. No such obligation exists. The devs do in fact read the megathreads all the time, even the ones they don't respond to

[Genitive]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

That would fine, if the Devs actually engaged in the mega threads.

What would that achieve?

[cute_moth.npc]

46 minutes ago, Genitive said:

What would that achieve?

Based on how we can barely treat each other with respect while discussing controversial topics, it would achieve PTSD!

I literally can't blame the developers for wanting to stay away from this forum at all. I wouldn't want to do it either.

[Tiltskillet]

1 minute ago, trst said:

From what I've seen when users were spamming out AOE and Wukong threads none of them were actually a different topic and devolved into the same points as users bounced between threads and bringing their arguments in.

Again, I'm not saying it's always bad.  It's a tool that can be used well or not-so-well, at the right time or the wrong one. 

I guess one specific observation I'd make is that it's a lot better to do it early, before a thread has gotten too complex, and to avoid lumping things together in a thread that's already large.  Past a certain point, I'd question the benefits of merging at all.   And I'd be careful about merging threads that have even fairly subtle differences in focus. 

It feels a little self-aggrandizing because I was deeply involved in it, but here's an example:  I made a post I put into a general feedback thread about the Brozime - Pablo interview.  It was mostly a Mako-style breakdown of the major points they went over with timestamps.  That got merged into a thread called "why-wukong-happened-and-how-to-solve-the-issue".  And then that thread got merged into a thread called "It's time to nerf Wukong".  My post just outlined what the dev said about Wukong, but I would summarize it as being 2% about him, and 98% about other things.  Approximately matching what Pablo himself talked about.

Anyway, why it (and a bunch of other stuff) got merged into a Wukong thread in the first place...I really can't fathom.  I'd guess an overworked moderator who made a mistake probably.  Which happens, and is all the more reason to be careful about combining threads together when they can't easily be untangled.

[mycroft_]

Well, DE thinks that user feedback is annoying, and that's why we get megathreads. There's less feedback that way.

Most DE employees aren't even active on the forums, they rely on community moderators to decide on what's important and what should be brought to their attention. They don't check PM's and they don't try to fix problems. It's a farce.

[Silligoose]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

It's super annoying when people ask questions or give feedback on a topic only for it to get lumped into a megathread where nobody will ever see it. 

I'd give examples but then I'll get lumped into a megathread.  ;b

It is annoying as it can break the flow of conversation as well, even for those who are simply following it.

Worse yet, there are times when it seems to be misused as well: Recently we've seen a slew of AoE threads and meta-threads and while they could be considered to all be discussing the same over-arching topic, there were certainly a few threads that had distinct points of discussion that warranted their own threads, but got smoshed with other threads anyway.

[mycroft_]

5 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

It is annoying as it can break the flow of conversation as well

I think that's the idea, @Silligoose , sometimes they WANT to break the flow of conversation.

 

3 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Worse yet, there are times when it seems to be misused as well: Recently we've seen a slew of AoE threads and meta-threads and while they could be considered to all be discussing the same over-arching topic, there were certainly a few threads that had distinct points of discussion that warranted their own threads, but got smoshed with other threads anyway.

Ah, I see you have already noticed. That was going to be the exact example I was going to share.

[trst]

38 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

That would fine, if the Devs actually engaged in the mega threads.

As it is now, merging feels more like the Devs saying they don't care, put it on the Ignore Pile with the rest.

 

yeah, feeling ignored by Devs is a PR problem they need to work on

15 minutes ago, mycroft_ said:

Well, DE thinks that user feedback is annoying, and that's why we get megathreads. There's less feedback that way.

Most DE employees aren't even active on the forums, they rely on community moderators to decide on what's important and what should be brought to their attention. They don't check PM's and they don't try to fix problems. It's a farce.

If they wanted less feedback or wanted to ignore it entirely then why does nearly every patch come with a bug fixes and feedback based changes?

Why would they be addressing AOE or Wukong at all? Why do features like Nightwave, Steel Path, or gun arcanes exist? Why would they rework anything ever if they didn't take feedback? Why would they ever use a test server and have a subforum dedicated to it in the first place?

 

The devs themselves don't need to be active on the forums. And having everything pertaining to a single topic consolidated into one place makes it easier for relevant information to get to them. Megathreads and update specific subforums exist so that they can get feedback.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Deal with it. It keeps the forums from becoming a mess of the same topic over and over again.

[TARINunit9]

28 minutes ago, mycroft_ said:

Well, DE thinks that user feedback is annoying, and that's why we get megathreads. There's less feedback that way.

Most DE employees aren't even active on the forums, they rely on community moderators to decide on what's important and what should be brought to their attention. They don't check PM's and they don't try to fix problems. It's a farce.

Ok this is disingenuous. DE have been very clear what their process is, and it's not what you claim it is:

Step 1: moderators compile megathreads

Step 2: interns filter out the posts that are just insults and bad-faith whining

Step 3: devs decide whether they even want to change what's in the game at all

Step 4: apply feedback

According to what they have disclosed in Devstreams. There are also instances of them skipping this process entirely (mostly for glitch fixes rather than non-glitch mechanics changes)

[mycroft_]

  

  

5 minutes ago, trst said:

If they wanted less feedback or wanted to ignore it entirely then why does nearly every patch come with a bug fixes and feedback based changes?

I'll ask you a question too. Why does every patch notes thread end up with 80+ comments all along the lines of "Hey, what about [issue] you still haven't fixed?"

There's page after page after page of it. Every time!

What I have seen is that they typically only address bugs and feedback that IMMEDIATELY cost them money; they do not listen to a majority of feedback, and they have not fixed an ever-growing mountain of bugs.

9 minutes ago, trst said:

having everything pertaining to a single topic consolidated into one place makes it easier for relevant information to get to them

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

Step 1: moderators compile megathreads

They have been merging threads that are about completely different things. It kills discussion and makes it harder for relevant information to get to them.

 

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

and it's not what you claim it is:

No, I'm well aware of their process. It's not good enough. Putting moderators and interns in between developers and players is tantamount to plugging your ears and going 'LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU'. They only pick up on issues that get a huge stink raised about them, and then on step 3, theyonly FIX problems that are easy to fix, or expensive not to fix. If they only ever go for the low-hanging fruit, the game is only going to keep decaying.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

55 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

This implies that you must respond to a thread to declare you have taken the information into account

Which is false. No such obligation exists. The devs do in fact read the megathreads all the time, even the ones they don't respond to

OK

but not responding gives off the Impression that they aren't listening.

hence, my feelings that megathreads are just ways of hiding away feedback

 

nope, they aren't "obligated", but it might be a good idea if they value having a good relationship with players

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

People not using the search function is also annoying. 

[TARINunit9]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

nope, they aren't "obligated", but it might be a good idea if they value having a good relationship with players

Ah, the issue Valve ran into. I do agree with the underlying principle there; the question becomes how often they need to do so

10 minutes ago, mycroft_ said:

If they only ever go for the low-hanging fruit, the game is only going to keep decaying.

This implies that's all they do, which... I don't agree with. At all. I mean they're about to rip out the entire ammo system for a new one. They've done complete tear-downs of the entire damage and proc system. They've tried to rebuild Railjack from square one. They've rebuilt melee as a whole three times

They only go after "low-hanging fruit" if you disagree with the fundamental gear-check design of player progression -- which is so deep, so fundamental to the game mechanics it makes everything else seem like low-hanging fruit by comparison 

[Genitive]

5 minutes ago, mycroft_ said:

I'll ask you a question too. Why does every patch notes thread end up with 80+ comments all along the lines of "Hey, what about [issue] you still haven't fixed?"

There's page after page after page of it. Every time!

What I have seen is that they typically only address bugs and feedback that IMMEDIATELY cost them money; they do not listen to a majority of feedback, and they have not fixed an ever-growing mountain of bugs.

Probably because every player thinks their issues should take priority over everything else. You can make a point of some problems being addressed much too late, but even the thread you linked proves you wrong. They made changes to medallions, they changed drop locations of Ash and Oberon, both issues people made threads about; there are bug fixes for content released years ago.

Then, they are going to fix the transferrence delay, which is apparently not easy to fix.

You claim to know their processes, but I don't think you know as much as you claim you do. Makes me wonder who is the one plugging their ears...

[X7PLVTINUM]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

It's super annoying when people ask questions or give feedback on a topic only for it to get lumped into a megathread where nobody will ever see it. 

I'd give examples but then I'll get lumped into a megathread.  ;b

But it'd be super funny if we turned this into a megathread as well