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Good Amps for regular content?


Steel_Rook

Question

I'm in a bit of a quandary at the moment. I haven't touched my Operator's Amp since... I don't know, 2019? I recall putting together a "meh" option at the time since I wasn't using my Operator almost at all. Going back to see if I can do better now, I find myself entirely lost in Amp factoids, videos and stats. I've done all the Googling I could think of and still don't know what I'm doing, so here I am asking for help. The Amp I'm currently using is Cantic/Shraksun/Clapkra. I believe I did this at the time because it seemed like the best balance of damage and utility, but now I'm not so sure.

I'm mostly looking for something with decent damage both for single-target and AoE. Well, and something that's fun to actually use, as well. Neither my Prism nor my Scaffold are all that much fun. Cantic seems like a powerful Prism, but I don't like burst-fire weapons. Ideally, I'd like something automatic, but the only option there is Rahn and that... seems fairly weak. To the point that I'm not sure why one would even pick it over Cantic. Klamora looks like a neat alternative, but its short range concerns me. Originally, I used Shwaak for its similarity to the Plasmor, but low critical chance doesn't scale very well to higher levels and the limited range really killed my use of it.

Scaffold-wise, I'm honestly not sure why I'm using Shraksun. I vaguely recall it being considered "meta"for Eidolons, but I basically don't fight Eidolons any more these days. For actual enemies, it just doesn't do enough damage for how slowly it fires. Originally I wanted to use the Pencha scaffold, but that seems... really bad. Slow fire rate, low damage, low crit. I thought it looked like am Operator version of the Opticor, but it doesn't seem to hit very hard. Phahd, Dissic, Exard and Propa all look pretty good, but I can't make heads or tails of their stats and I don't fancy making them just to discard them if I don't like the Amp.

I don't know. I'm kind of lost in stats. Maybe if I could try those things out in the Simulacrum before committing to them, it wouldn't be so bad. However, it doesn't seem like I can even switch Operator gear there, much less try items I don't have. I just need something that's simple to use and decent against Sortie/Railjack level enemies (so 100-120), and I can't make heads or tails of the system for the life of me.

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16 hours ago, gamingchair1121 said:

might work but id say use the ones i mentioned because crit will mostly benefit the primary fire while the damage and infinite ammo benefit both (for the alt fire you're better off spamming it rather than increasing the damage and logistics lets you spam it for a good 30ish seconds)

Well, I should also mention that I don't have Eternal Logistics presently, so I'll need to acquire that to test :) I'm maxed out with the Holdouts, though, so that shouldn't be TOO much of an issue. I've been playing around with a 477 amp (I think is how the numbering goes?) and I can definitely feel the need for more ammo. Losing the extra 40 rounds AND grabbing Rahn has put me in a pretty tight spot. At this point, I think the extra ammo efficiency is well worth it.

 

16 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

I've never personally been a fan of the Propa, primarily due to self-staggers, but since you run Unairu a lot more than I do, that likely isn't an issue. Still, that also goes back to how you play: Propa is very short range, so it follows the same advice as the Klamora above (good if you're in the mix of things, not as good if you're at a range). Propa is also a bit slower, so you have to stay on the ball when it comes to Thrax units. I've had more than a few Thrax float out of range before the thing detonates because I was a little too slow. Some people might not like the timing aspect of it.

Yeah. Having tested the Propa, it's EXTREMELY shirt-range. The exploding pellet may as well just spawn on top of me. Means either I run away from it or turtle in void mode, if I want to avoid self-stagger. Still, it does a ton of damage and cleans up groups pretty nicely. I've played my Operator exclusively since I got my 477 Amp (to level it up, mostly), and it does fairly well against mid-range Grineer. I do need to strip their armour, but... well, I'm already using my Operator, so that's fairly easy. Plus I need to use Operator abilities in order to trigger Eternal Eradicate anyway, so it works out.

Propa is definitely hard to use, but I still like it a lot better than the Shraksun I've been using until now. It might be good for Eidolons, but it does fairly little against normal enemies. Also - is it just me, or does the "Propa" sound like an Ork weapon? Would fit right in next to the Shoota and Choppa :)

 

16 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Eh, not everyone can research everything. Medical doctors aren't physicists. Let that load off your shoulders!

Yeah, I suppose. This whole issue started with me checking the Wiki and being overwhelmed by the information there :) Thank you, everyone, for helping me bring some structure to this whole issue.

 

16 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

These seem like a pretty good balance. I will say, from experience, I find the Rahn prism better with Cascade fissures (Klamora can reach but if you suck at judging distances like me, you can struggle to find the right spot), so I'd tend to use the first for more ranged playstyles, and the second for close encounters. Mix in as the missions require or as your flavour dictates.

Yeah, I suspect 477 will work better as a general-purpose Amp even if it's not too powerful, while the Boeing 747 will work as a powerhouse which might be more difficult to use. Now I kind of wish we had a broader selection of Amp parts with different functionalities. Would love a "machinegun" style Amp, since the Rahn is more of a rifle. Who knows, maybe with Duviri, whenever that comes out. They teased it in 2019...

 

16 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

The Exard looks interesting on paper, but it has crazy recoil and terrible accuracy, making it always awful in practice. Dissic is actually very good as far as non-crit amps are concerned. Easy to use, good damage, big AoE. At 50 energy it's too expensive to use without Eternal Logistics though, in my opinion.

Yeah, I didn't realise both of those had poor crit change when I asked the question. Exard does look quite... unwieldy. My main reason for brining up Dissic was it looked like a decent AoE alternative to the Propa, but doesn't seem to measure up, I think. I also tend to find that "cluster" weapons can be unreliable in terms of damage. I suppose it depends on the spread pattern, though. The Zarr is absolutely god-awful because the clusters bounce away from the surface of contact, so usually straight back into my face. The Bramma, by contrast, shoots clusters laterally out from the centre of the explosion irrespective of impact angle. Just... a single explosion seems more reliable than a spread of smaller explostions.

 

15 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

I don't do number codes, not an Eildolon hunter so never memorized it. I use the Big Flamethrower, with the fast recharger from fortuna, and the Energy Disk Launcher.

Oh, I don't remember most of the names anyway. I have the wiki article on Amps open in another tab so I can check every time it comes up :)

The flamethrower you're using is the Lega, I believe. How does it compare to the Klamora - the "wide, short range beam"? The latter seems to have quite a bit more damage. What's the benefit to using the former? Not questioning your choices, just looking to understand the mechanics.

 

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

My current amps of choice (177/247).

To get something out of the way first - it seems consensus opinion cites Phahd, Propa and Cretus are pretty much the best choices. Most of the variety seems to be with the Prisms, with different people having their own preferences.

I do recognise that the Raplak prism is probably the best all-around option. It does high damage with high crit and unparallelled range. My issue with it is that I just... don't like using it? I'm not a fan of semi-auto "DMRs", and my aim ain't what it used to be :) Completely agreed, though - that's a solid choice.

I used to use the Shwaak prism a lot when I was "younger", because I used to LOOOVE the Arca Plasmor. Unfortunately, that one has a ton of limitations. It doesn't really do much in the way of damage and its low critical hit chance doesn't help. Its short range is what ultimately made me change it, because I was having extreme trouble fighting the Ropalolyst (or however you spell that). Like the Arca Plasmor itself, it doesn't seem to scale very well to higher levels.

Then again, the last time I used my Shwaak Prism was long before the Operator redesign, and I had it paired with Shraksun scaffold so... Yeah, that may have been operator error there. I'll probably rebuild that old Amp with a different Scaffold at some point, but I'm just not sure. Kind of wish Pencha was better, but it just looks godawful terrible from its stats screen...

 

Either way, thank you kindly for the help, everyone :)

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15 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

I recently unbound my last waybound

I've been playing 6 months and hit MR 16 but I've been hunting eidolons and angels and use my operator probably more than +95% of players in the game. I use it so much, so I'll offer my opinion since I've built a bunch of Amps over the last 6 months and used them extensively. I agree with earlier comments that the amp usefulness comes more from unlocked FOCUS. The way bounds are nice but there's so much more beyond that especially when paired with arcanes. 

Eternal onslaught and eternal eradicate are huge. They are arcanes from. Cavalero on Zariman. Get them.

My current amps of choice (177/247).

177. My angel and Eidolon amp. On Zariman, the 247 short to medium range is hard to use without Madurai active and I farm focus and Endo on Zariman so i don't have Madurai active all the time. I can use the 247 but I'm quite adept at this point to void sling around in space and shoot the angel at close distance where I don't see other players really doing that at all. So if you're not comfortable doing that, use a prism with precise shots and long range such as 177. Especially when the angel does it's dance after the orbs and flies up and hovers high overhead. With 247 or any shorter range prism you need to void sling and shoot precisely and you're slinging around and trying to maintain altitude, close proximity to the angel and aim. Not super easy. Also, because 177 is precise long range, at close ranges the damage is higher, imo. Visible vs eidolons especially. 177 without Madurai makes it way easier where 247 on 80-100 enemy bounties, the angel is too strong if you're solo for the 247. Sure you can defeat it but it will take 20 minutes because each shot is minimal damage and the angel goes into healing mode.

247. My general use and Eidolon amp. The shorter, wide slinging "beam" from the prism means you don't have to be precise. WF gets "choppy" for me when the action gets insane like during a sorti or Lua conjunction survival with 80-100 enemies and void manifestations and other players using ogris or bramma with bright explosions I literally can't see a thing on the screen sometimes but kinda know where a void manifestation switched to transparent form and floated up so i can switch to OP, spin around and shoot it with the wider beam my aim can be more forgiving. The wider beam will hit multiple enemies as well. Good for ESO or SO or any mission "hallway" or group. If you have a Warframe health arcane switching back and forth is a good method to stay in the mission while doing damage. I've used Magus arcanes for that. As mentioned the "4" is nice as an alt fire for bouncing around. Especially vom groups. If you pair the alt fire with a power throw from a glaive like xoris, you can use the glaive to turn groups of voms transparent and then switch to OP and altfire and watch the cores fall to the ground and pick up lure charges.

Anyway, have fun, I'm always learning and there's so much more to learn!

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I don't do number codes, not an Eildolon hunter so never memorized it.

I use the Big Flamethrower, with the fast recharger from fortuna, and the Energy Disk Launcher.

and perhaps more Importantly, the Arcanes that add fire damage every time your Operator Void Slings

 

Very good results when my WF is down and I need to use Last Gasp to self res.

that disk bounces everywhere, making for easy kills in a panic situation

and the flamethrower thing is good for dealing with Thrax enemies

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54 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Dissic and Exard?

The Exard looks interesting on paper, but it has crazy recoil and terrible accuracy, making it always awful in practice.

Dissic is actually very good as far as non-crit amps are concerned. Easy to use, good damage, big AoE. At 50 energy it's too expensive to use without Eternal Logistics though, in my opinion.

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18 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

747 with unairu and eternal eradicate/logistics is the best amp setup you can have. a ton of damage and near infinite ammo on a normally very energy hungry amp. alt fire is also very effective at clearing crowds.

also any combination of <6,7/2,4/3,7> is good

no do not use the melee amp

From what I hear and it may be wrong, the 747 is good with void angels. The 177 for eidolons and the 777 for a sh!t ton of fun/damage. Seriously like everything in warframe, the right tool for the job.

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10 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

I suppose that's where Phahd comes in?

The one downside of the Phahd is that it likes to pick its own targets. So if you have a Thrax floating about in a group of enemies, Phahd disks might not behave and go after the thing you want it to.

I think some of this also depends on if, or where, you're playing your Warframe. If you're running around with melee all the time, then the range of the Klamora isn't as much of an issue, since you're likely to already be in range anyway. If you're further back, you have the issue of needing to close the distance, dealing with Void Sling ragdolls, and the like. All that sort of mess can really impact the Klamora's DPS.

15 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

On the flip side, Rahn should have decent enough range on its own. In that case, I might want some more heavy-hitting, larger-scale AoE since I can't rely on the "primary" to do that. Would it make sense to go for a Propa in that case? Say, a 477 Amp, I guess you'd call it?

I've never personally been a fan of the Propa, primarily due to self-staggers, but since you run Unairu a lot more than I do, that likely isn't an issue. Still, that also goes back to how you play: Propa is very short range, so it follows the same advice as the Klamora above (good if you're in the mix of things, not as good if you're at a range). Propa is also a bit slower, so you have to stay on the ball when it comes to Thrax units. I've had more than a few Thrax float out of range before the thing detonates because I was a little too slow. Some people might not like the timing aspect of it.

20 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

As something of a follow-up question, what about Dissic and Exard?

I haven't personally tried them, but from what I've seen, if I want an explosive Amp, I'll use the Granmu prism instead. Neither Dissic nor Exard seem spectacular to me.

21 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

I guess I should have done a tad bit more research before asking...

Eh, not everyone can research everything. Medical doctors aren't physicists. Let that load off your shoulders!

21 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

If I were to make a Rahn/Propa/Cretus and a separate Klamora/Phahd/Cretus amp to switch between, would that seem like a good idea? I might end up doing that :)

These seem like a pretty good balance. I will say, from experience, I find the Rahn prism better with Cascade fissures (Klamora can reach but if you suck at judging distances like me, you can struggle to find the right spot), so I'd tend to use the first for more ranged playstyles, and the second for close encounters. Mix in as the missions require or as your flavour dictates.

I do want to note that if you use the Klamora and Phahd, your best results will probably come about if you spam Caustic Strike before firing Phahd. If you use CS on just one group, the glaive has a good chance of hitting one guy and buggering off to Guatemala. If Guatemala has no defenses, though, that's not a problem.

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2 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Oh, yeah - I'd meant to ask about Arcanes, as well. My current "primary" Amp has an old Virtuous Shadow I had from a long time ago, which I guess never got Levels 4 and 5 added to it? That, and a brand new Eternal Eradicate. I suppose there's also Virtuous Strike, but I don't have that one and it doesn't seem substantively different from Virtuous Shadow. What would be worth looking at?

Eternal Logistics seems interesting on face value. I'm just not sure if I want to replace Virtuous Shadow with it.

might work but id say use the ones i mentioned because crit will mostly benefit the primary fire while the damage and infinite ammo benefit both (for the alt fire you're better off spamming it rather than increasing the damage and logistics lets you spam it for a good 30ish seconds)

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Klamora for bursting Nullifiers, Phahd for everything else. I don't personally run any fancy Operator builds, but I do run Zenurik's enemy-slowdown ability

Other prisms I like are the Raplak, Shwaak, Rahn, and Cantic because I have a love for burst-fire pistols.

For scaffolds, Phahd as mentioned. Pencha and Shraksun are decent. Propa is strong, but not comfy for day-to-day missions.

For braces, I'm split between the Juttni, Plaga, Lohrin, and Certus. Low fire-rate parts like the Pencha Scaffold will pair perfectly with a Juttni or Plaga brace. Certus is great for crit, Juttni is good if you want some more status chance.

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2 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

747 with unairu and eternal eradicate/logistics is the best amp setup you can have.

Oh, yeah - I'd meant to ask about Arcanes, as well. My current "primary" Amp has an old Virtuous Shadow I had from a long time ago, which I guess never got Levels 4 and 5 added to it? That, and a brand new Eternal Eradicate. I suppose there's also Virtuous Strike, but I don't have that one and it doesn't seem substantively different from Virtuous Shadow. What would be worth looking at?

Eternal Logistics seems interesting on face value. I'm just not sure if I want to replace Virtuous Shadow with it.

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747 with unairu and eternal eradicate/logistics is the best amp setup you can have. a ton of damage and near infinite ammo on a normally very energy hungry amp. alt fire is also very effective at clearing crowds.

also any combination of <6,7/2,4/3,7> is good

13 minutes ago, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

Just go with a 777

no do not use the melee amp

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I recommend Klamora/Certus/Phahd, so 7/7/4. Phahd because of the short range of the Klamora prism - it can be used at extreme ranges and also around corners. This is for damage dealing, especially with Madurai.

If you for some reason want more energy for Void Sling or operator abilities, you can use something with the Anspatha Brace - this will however lower your damage.

I'd also recommend a Lega/Plaga/Dissic, or 6/6/6 for general operator combat if you are not using Madurai and have an [Arcane Logistics]. The Lega doesn't have crit, but can be used almost without break and is very convenient (long range flamethrower), and Dissic needs that arcane to fire infinitely, but it's a big explosion that can be aimed wherever you need it.

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2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

However, a big part of the Amp's power is the Operator wielding it. For combat, I'd reccomend either Madurai or Unairu.

I'm an Unairu hipster - I was using it before it was any good :) So yeah, sticking to that. Armour/shield stripping helps A LOT, you're right. That's basically the only way I can use Last Gasp in higher-level content.

 

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Certus just boosts crit, which if you're using the Operator's own Void Damage, is infinitely better than status chance.

Yeah, I think I'll have to go with that. A lot of "logic" behind my existing amps is ancient, aimed at addressing issues inherent in the Mote amp and the lack of Waybounds. I recently unbound my last waybound, so I think I can do without the bonus amp energy. All things being equal, I'd rather have a larger "magazine" but I'd much more rather have an Amp that works. Pretty sure I'll be going with Certus.

 

1 hour ago, Tyreaus said:

The thing about prisms in general is that they don't deal a lot of damage. This means they're not great for general content, like killing regular enemies. But there's a silver lining: prisms across the board usually do enough damage for Amp-specific content, like Thrax enemies and Cascade bubbles, especially when combined with Madurai. They're made for the things that need an Amp, and just about any Amp will do them. So if you like the Rahn's auto-fire, the fact it isn't optimal damage-wise doesn't really matter: it does enough, and it's the scaffold (and Madurai) that'll be handling regular enemies.

This reassures me. I ran the numbers and they're a bit grim. Rahn comes up to 7371 DPS while Klamora comes up to 11 030 DPS. That's a significant difference. On the other hand, the Rahn is magic machinegun while the Klamora is a magic flamethrower. I would much rather have a machinegun. Maybe I'll make one of each. My concern with the Klamora (aside from not being a huge fan of it thematically) is that the short range is a significant downside. I'll need SOMETHING to fire long-range. I suppose that's where Phahd comes in? That one seems like less of an AoE weapon and more of a hybrid melee/single-target thing. That would be a good pair for a short-range blaster.

On the flip side, Rahn should have decent enough range on its own. In that case, I might want some more heavy-hitting, larger-scale AoE since I can't rely on the "primary" to do that. Would it make sense to go for a Propa in that case? Say, a 477 Amp, I guess you'd call it?

As something of a follow-up question, what about Dissic and Exard? Actually, having said that... Dissic has nothing for crit, so that disqualifies it in my book. I completely agree that Operator Status feels like a sucker trap, and I've no interest in it. Exard, similarly, has middling crit chance. High damage but low crit, AND it dumps the entire Amp energy pool. I guess I should have done a tad bit more research before asking...

 

In conclusion:

If I were to make a Rahn/Propa/Cretus and a separate Klamora/Phahd/Cretus amp to switch between, would that seem like a good idea? I might end up doing that :)

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The general content meta is, I think, a x47 like Loza's 747.

Klamora is short-range, but the wide-angle and punch-through make it easy to hit Amp-specific enemies, like Eidolons and spectral Thrax enemies. The range is usually enough to hit Cascade bubbles, too—barely, albeit. So it's a good, easy-to-use, all-purpose laser-flamethrower. The crit is nice, too.

The thing about prisms in general is that they don't deal a lot of damage. This means they're not great for general content, like killing regular enemies. But there's a silver lining: prisms across the board usually do enough damage for Amp-specific content, like Thrax enemies and Cascade bubbles, especially when combined with Madurai. They're made for the things that need an Amp, and just about any Amp will do them. So if you like the Rahn's auto-fire, the fact it isn't optimal damage-wise doesn't really matter: it does enough, and it's the scaffold (and Madurai) that'll be handling regular enemies.

On the point of the scaffold, I tend to prefer the Phahd, and I think it sees a fair bit of use for one simple reason: utter chaos consistency. A Propa might hit a group of enemies if you bunch them together really close, but you have to get those enemies bunched together. Its performance is more iffy. By comparison, a Phahd will happily bounce around a room and a few heads for ages, almost always snagging a few solid hits for its homing capabilities. It might not deal the absolute maximum possible damage, but you can just about be sure, when you trigger Void Strike, you will get some solid hits on just about everything in the room. It also makes that 12% status chance do some pretty good work, especially with the appropriate brace.

Certus tends to be the go-to brace due to the crit boosts, which are great for Eidolons. It helps general damage, but the overall reason it's Certus or bust is a mix of status being almost useless, Operators being sparingly used, and base ammo capacities being fine. A 5 or 2 second reload doesn't much matter if you're only using your Operator every couple minutes. Similar for mag size: you'll have finished what you needed the Operator for long before the ammo runs dry. Likewise, magnetic bubbles don't tend to do a lot, and can actually be a detriment if they deflect bullets from the head (since the bubbles focus fire on wherever it's procced, often the body). So the only other worthwhile stat left is crit.

Of course, this misses some shenanigans when it comes to Phahd shots: they loop in Void procs. AFAIK, you can still proc the Void status effect on an Eidolon, throw in Phahd disks, and watch as it re-procs the Void effect and melts the shields at a hilarious rate withoit Void Strike. It's the only Amp part that benefits from Void procs, but man, does it benefit and open up a possibility for a status build. The only problem being that it glues onto one target, and if that target happens to be a real tanky Heavy Gunner eximus when you're trying to proc Last Gasp, it might eat up all the damage you wanted to distribute to some weaker targets.

Overall, as Loza says, most Amp performance comes from the Operator. I still swear by the Phahd as the scaffold, just because you can get so many hits, it has good crit stats, it doesn't take up the prism (so you can have your automatic laser for Void Cascades), and it can synergize well with the Void status effect. In my time in Steel Path using my 747 amp with Madurai, I've yet not to trigger Last Gasp with disk spam. But with most performance coming from the Operator, it makes it a lot harder to do a general content Amp wrong.

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I'm working on changing some of this up too, but here's what I use right now for a reasonably powerful Operator.

Personally, I use a Klamora/Phahd/Certus - or a '747' as some call it. Klamora has been a decent option ever since it was fixed (it used to fire based on framerate, which caused it to fire for extremely short periods of time for many people), and Phahd is extremely powerful provided it can actually kill, which falls off in later levels. Certus just boosts crit, which if you're using the Operator's own Void Damage, is infinitely better than status chance. Phahd works fine with or without it - it'll either ricochet between several enemies or hit the same one over and over again. You're also going to want to look into the Arcanes available. Virtuous Trojan gives you access to Viral Damage, so the Lohrin Brace with the Lega Prism may be useful for this one since it boosts status chance. There's some build variety, as I understand it.

However, a big part of the Amp's power is the Operator wielding it. For combat, I'd reccomend either Madurai or Unairu. Void Strike multiplies your damage by 10X briefly, which can be used for the Frame's weapons if you're OK wasting a second or so transferring back. But in any case, an Amp that deals 'decent' damage will be dealing quite a fair bit when multipleid by 10. This is the good stuff if you're mainly planning on using your OP for Last Gasp (or Eidolons of course). For more consistent offerings, Unairu is a good pick since it boosts your Operator's armour, but more importantly, lets you strip shields and armour. This is Warframe, get rid of something's armour and it's going to die pretty fast. Unairu's main drawback is that sustained combat is intensive on your energy supply, so try to be discerning with what you Caustic Blast

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