GourangaPL Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 First of all THANK YOU for bringing back the old corpus defense map, i hope it's just a first step on long path of bringing back whole old corpus ship tileset. Next thing, the rotations, i really have no idea when the mission has its rotations, there is some counter for crystals, there is some timer, timer goes to 0 nothing happens, it's so messy, please fix the interface so it clearly tells you how long you gonna stay in there. Also really hope to see fissure missions in there in the future. For now that's all i have to say, really nothing bad to say about it except for that unclear rotation thing, good job DE and please continue bringing back old corpus maps (who knows, maybe even old gas city) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobWasHere Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 Rotation happens when going back to the Mars crystal (You start at Mars, then you go to Venus, rotation kicks when Venus timer ends). Timer is just time of enemies spawn at the crystal, then the other crystal activates, like on that one specific variation of Defence in Uranus where pod location shifts. Crystal count is a buff - collect 50 for defence target to refresh overshield and gain a temporary turret. You also get 5 of 'pity' resource in additional of those at the end of rotation. There is a lot of crystals in a void tunnel section, but they disappear when the wave starts. Technically you dont need to collect anything to progress, its a mobile defence with extra steps. Collecting crystals makes it easier and you gain more resource to buy stuff from Otak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GourangaPL Posted February 15, 2023 Author Share Posted February 15, 2023 ok so i played a bit, there should be a round counter like in interception so we know how far we are also these crystals we pick up floating in the air they should be marked and also companions should be able to pick them up from the distance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quxier Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 46 minutes ago, GourangaPL said: also these crystals we pick up floating in the air they should be marked and also companions should be able to pick them up from the distance I would rather them not be market because it would make maps not very readable (enemies, loots and then crystals). They are very visible imho. And companion picking them up would make this "challenge" useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damocles Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 I've had more fun waiting in an elevator than sitting in mirrored defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 the biggest thing i like about Mirror D. is that its time based and not kill based. the one thing i dont like about it is the behavior it created with getting crystals. in void flood you need to collect vitoplast to seal ruptures. you dont need the crystals at all for anything mission specific. it is just extra resource. DE should really know how their player base behaves when it comes to efficiency with farming resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR31 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 В 20.02.2023 в 07:56, EinheriarJudith сказал: the biggest thing i like about Mirror D. is that its time based and not kill based. the one thing i dont like about it is the behavior it created with getting crystals. in void flood you need to collect vitoplast to seal ruptures. you dont need the crystals at all for anything mission specific. it is just extra resource. DE should really know how their player base behaves when it comes to efficiency with farming resources. It's not kill based, but to spawn all the crystals you need about 60 kills per minute. Not much but if you have few people collecting them in your party and if someone hard cc them and kill count goes below this kpm- it matters. General experience is still not great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 57 minutes ago, BR31 said: It's not kill based, but to spawn all the crystals you need about 60 kills per minute. Not much but if you have few people collecting them in your party and if someone hard cc them and kill count goes below this kpm- it matters. General experience is still not great. collecting the crystals has no impact on the mission. you will always get +10 fragments for completing waves. DE should have weaved crystal gather into the main objective just like you need vitoplast to close ruptures. when you create anything that gives you bonus resources people will form unpleasant behavior around it if you refuse to take part in it. there is no reason to collect the crystals other than "More Resources". the general experience for me was fine. i prefer Mirror Defense over regular defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR31 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Are you aware that without collecting flying crystals, spawns of which are affected by kills to the cap (about 60) - you're cutting your red and blue fragments by over 50%? Effectively prolonging the farm x2. Yes you don't affect rotations , but the fragments are the currency and the goal of farming this gamemode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 14 minutes ago, BR31 said: Are you aware that without collecting flying crystals, spawns of which are affected by kills to the cap (about 60) - you're cutting your red and blue fragments by over 50%? Effectively prolonging the farm x2. Yes you don't affect rotations , but the fragments are the currency and the goal of farming this gamemode. proving my point of why DE should not do this. literally no point in getting other than "More Resources". if someone decides to not take part in parkouring to gather crystals, i dont see a problem. but i had someone say in chat "you guys really dont like gathering crystals" even though people were helping. im sure others have had similar or worse experiences. i repeat there is no point in gathering the crystals. the drops that you can buy with fragments (that you also get from completing waves) also normally drop from wave rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollexMessier Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said: proving my point of why DE should not do this. literally no point in getting other than "More Resources". if someone decides to not take part in parkouring to gather crystals, i dont see a problem. but i had someone say in chat "you guys really dont like gathering crystals" even though people were helping. im sure others have had similar or worse experiences. i repeat there is no point in gathering the crystals. the drops that you can buy with fragments (that you also get from completing waves) also normally drop from wave rewards. The crystal collecting is the funnest part of the game mode. And you don't get the arcanes from mission rewards, only from the crystals (nevermind). Collecting them makes that farm overall much faster and the gamemode itself more engaging since you're doing more than just waiting out a timer, which is a terribly boring game mechanic so many other gamemodes fall into. The objectives barely take damage from enemies at all unless you're in steel path. Which you would only be doing if you cared about the efficiency of the farm, and if you did than you would be more than happy to collect the crystals, so obviously you're not playing it on steel path. Plus collecting them heals the objective. There's no point not collecting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, PollexMessier said: And you don't get the arcanes from mission rewards this is factually incorrect. Mirror Defense | WARFRAME Wiki | Fandom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, PollexMessier said: Collecting them makes that farm overall much faster and the gamemode itself more engaging since you're doing more than just waiting out a timer, which is a terribly boring game mechanic so many other gamemodes fall into. The objectively barely takes damage from enemies at all unless you're in steel path. Which you would only be doing if you cared about the effeciency of the farm, and if you did than you would be more than happy to collect the crystals, so obviously you're not playing it on steel path. Plus collecting them heals the objective. There's no point not collecting them. im not against people collecting them. i do wish they had impact on the main objective but, im talking about peoples unpleasant behavior towards those who do not want to take part in collecting them. this game is particular when it comes to farming efficiency and how people behave around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollexMessier Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 minute ago, EinheriarJudith said: this is factually incorrect. Mirror Defense | WARFRAME Wiki | Fandom Ah you're right. my bad. But since we're looking at the wiki you might've noticed the drop rates on these things are obscenely low. It's clearly desighned around getting the rewards from both mission drops and the crystals or grinding this stuff out would take waaaaaaaaaay too long. And the crystals are a method to get drops you might be having really bad rng on which is just a flat out good and player friendly mechanic, And something a large chunk of the playerbase has been asking for for multiple things in the game since forever.. Nothing else I said was incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, PollexMessier said: Ah you're right. my bad. But since we're looking at the wiki you might've noticed the drop rates on these things are obscenely low. It's clearly desighned around getting the rewards from both mission drops and the crystals or grinding this stuff out would take waaaaaaaaaay too long. And the crystals are a method to get drops you might be having really bad rng on which is just a flat out good and player friendly mechanic, And something a large chunk of the playerbase has been asking for for multiple things in the game since forever.. Nothing else I said was incorrect. im with you. im so glad DE has started to use this system more. but you get fragments from completing waves. they should have just added an endurance node so that the wave fragments are increased. imo either scrap crystal collection or make it important to the mission objective. currently there is no other point to gathering them but more resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollexMessier Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 38 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said: im with you. im so glad DE has started to use this system more. but you get crystals from completing waves. they should have just added an endurance node so that the wave fragments are increased. imo either scrap crystal collection or make it important to the mission objective. currently there is no other point to gathering them but more resources. But the resources you get from them IS the point of the mission. You make the grind faster by collecting them. Just do it. Or prioritize nuking enemies to spawn the crystals faster for your team to collect. The defense objectives pretty much only exist as a failure condition. It's not the real point of the mission and as I said they barely even register as defense objectives for the non existent amount of damage enemies do to them, and the fact that they fully heal when you collect enough crystals. Saying you don't want to collect the crystals is kindof like saying you don't want to kill enemies in exterminate or get life support for survival. It's just what you do for the mission. And they're the only thing making the mission bearable cus without them it's just endless mobile defense.... again. I can't think of a more mind numbing experience. If they weren't there I probably would've uninstalled the game on the spot because of how braindead and minimal effort, both for the developers to have made, and for the players to play, the mission type would've been. Right on the back of them doing that with conjunction survival which is just as mind numbing as normal survival except you have thrax enemies making it more annoying and a random dax ghost walking around with an area of effect the game doesn't explain to you and is never where you want it to be so it might as well not even exist. Just treat the mode more like void flood and collect the damn things. I don't see what the problem is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR31 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 7 минут назад, PollexMessier сказал: But the resources you get from them IS the point of the mission. You make the grind faster by collecting them. Pretty much. Once people get the drops they want - they will forget about this node. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 12 minutes ago, PollexMessier said: You make the grind faster by collecting them. Just do it. 13 minutes ago, PollexMessier said: Just treat the mode more like void flood and collect the damn things. I don't see what the problem is. these 2 lines are the issue im talking about. nobody HAS to collect them. killing enemies to spawn them is fine and so is not collecting them. but people start arguing in chat when people dont collect them. i think both of you are missing the point. it is not about collecting the crystals to get more resources. its about peoples attitude towards those who do not want to. collecting them is not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 20 minutes ago, PollexMessier said: Just treat the mode more like void flood no because it isnt void flood. vitoplast are integral to the missions main objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 29 minutes ago, PollexMessier said: Saying you don't want to collect the crystals is kindof like saying you don't want to kill enemies in exterminate or get life support for survival. It's just what you do for the mission. this is a quite bad analogy. killing enemies in exterminate is integral to the main mission objective. collecting crystals is not. you actually dont have to collect life support drops because life support pillars are constantly spawned until they reach their max. life support drops also drop like items that are vacuumed up and are not out of the way like the crystals are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollexMessier Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said: these 2 lines are the issue im talking about. nobody HAS to collect them. killing enemies to spawn them is fine and so is not collecting them. but people start arguing in chat when people dont collect them. i think both of you are missing the point. it is not about collecting the crystals to get more resources. its about peoples attitude towards those who do not want to. collecting them is not necessary. Players not collecting the crystals are the ones missing the point. If they simply don't want to, making the crystals a requirement isn't going to change that and they'll stand around doing nothing regardless because everyone else will be collecting the crystals anyways and their refusal to do so amounts to essentially not wanting to participate at all. I think the real issue here (If not just leeching which, its definitely at least partially leeching) is probably that the game does a piss poor job training players how to parkour and these players don't want to collect the crystals because they don't know how or are bad at it. Again, the crystals are the point of the mission. Just because they're not a requirement doesn't make that any less true. And part of what makes the mission type engaging is trying to optimize getting as many crystals as you can in the amount of time given to you. There's no way to really make the crystals a progression requirement and maintain that design aspect except just having a minimum amount of crystals you need to collect within the time limit. But then once that minimum is hit you're back to the same spot of players that don't wanna engage with the crystals not doing so more than they have to and the players that'd be mad at them for it still being mad. On top of the mode itself is now being actively hostile towards players that don't want to collect the crystals, along with everyone in a team with them, which would make the problem worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, PollexMessier said: Players not collecting the crystals are the ones missing the point. If they simply don't want to, making the crystals a requirement isn't going to change that and they'll stand around doing nothing regardless because everyone else will be collecting the crystals anyways and their refusal to do so amounts to essentially not wanting to participate at all. I think the real issue here (If not just leeching which, its definitely at least partially leeching) is probably that the game does a piss poor job training players how to parkour and these players don't want to collect the crystals because they don't know how or are bad at it. Again, the crystals are the point of the mission. Just because they're not a requirement doesn't make that any less true. And part of what makes the mission type engaging is trying to optimize getting as many crystals as you can in the amount of time given to you. There's no way to really make the crystals a progression requirement and maintain that design aspect except just having a minimum amount of crystals you need to collect within the time limit. But then once that minimum is hit you're back to the same spot of players that don't wanna engage with the crystals not doing so more than they have to and the players that'd be mad at them for it still being mad. On top of the mode itself is now being actively hostile towards players that don't want to collect the crystals, along with everyone in a team with them, which would make the problem worse. anytime i queue this mission to collect crystals, i take titania. literally no parkour is needed. not getting the crystals is not leeching. standing and doing nothing is leeching. if the people are killing, they are contributing by helping the crystals to spawn and defending the main objective. the crystals are NOT the point of the mission and thats part of the problem. i see the same in fighting with any zariman bounties. no one has to collect all the plumes because the bounty + the angel + the scholar invalidates that necessity especially since they added currency exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_COY_ Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 On 2/22/2023 at 8:47 AM, EinheriarJudith said: collecting the crystals has no impact on the mission. you will always get +10 fragments for completing waves. DE should have weaved crystal gather into the main objective just like you need vitoplast to close ruptures. Well, it has no impact in the mission itself, but in the rewards. In PUGs often nobody cares about the crystals besides me and we end up with a very low amount after the 24minutes. All you need to farm are these crystals, so it is logical to focus on those, rather than any useless kills It's possible to get 157/157 after C rotation, this lowers the over-all grind time for frame/weapon and arcanes heavily. -c0y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 hour ago, _COY_ said: Well, it has no impact in the mission itself, but in the rewards. In PUGs often nobody cares about the crystals besides me and we end up with a very low amount after the 24minutes. All you need to farm are these crystals, so it is logical to focus on those, rather than any useless kills It's possible to get 157/157 after C rotation, this lowers the over-all grind time for frame/weapon and arcanes heavily. -c0y again, getting any fragments at all lowers the overall grind because it isn't just RNG based. again, it proves my point about how the community behaves around efficiency in farming resources to which i said DE should not do it. ive already put my opinion. either remove the crystals or make the crystals part of the main objective which is to defend the large crystals. this isn't void flood where vitoplast are integral to the main mission. people complain at others for not collecting the crystals. people DO NOT have to collect them. it is not hard to understand what ive said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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