What do you think? Loki need a Rework?

[Umbrapher]

only a question, i want to read your opinions

[gamingchair1121]

nah he's fine

basically unkillable with both invis and invulnerablility from his 3 augment, good for defense for forcing enemies into melee with his 4, really good for spy missions, long range teleport, and he can even be made into a weapons platform with combat discipline, arcane avenger and health regeneration shards

and if you really want to get technical, his wall latch passive can actually be really good for certain situations, as wall latching heavily decreases enemy accuracy

and not every frame needs to be as broken as saryn or octavia

[(PSN)Sentiel]

I would rework Loki to emphasize his trickster role. As a stealth frame he's being overshadowed by Ivara for boss fights, Ash for handling groups, and Wukong (lol) for Spy.

 

His Decoy is too weak and doesn't really do much, so I'd give it a grace period of invulnerability upon casting during which it absorbs damage to boost its HP. Perhaps with augment, it could deflect the received damage back to the attacker or a random enemy within range to increase its enemy attraction.

Instead of invisibility I'd give him the ability to disguise as an enemy (ideally without actually having to use the enemy model because I'm sure that would break the game) so he doesn't get targeted at all and can get buffs from enemies. It would essentially work the same way but not.

His teleport should work even without target, just let us teleport wherever we want.

[Tiltskillet]

Decoy could sure use a rework.   Switch Tele and Radial Disarm could get by with a few touch ups.  

I can imagine a deeper sort of rework that could be really good.  But I don't think he's in desperate need of it.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

definitley. people are inhaling pretty large quantities of Copium when it comes to his kit: no, I don't care that he scales infinitley because he doesn't rely on damage, other frames do just about everything he can do, but better, that's just a fact.

Decoy should scale off of literally anything else instead of strength and should be more like Celestial Twin, which, regardless of how you may feel about Wukong, is about the peak of a single-summon ability. Decoy should at the very least be able to move independently, perhaps also allow the decoy to release a blinding explosion when destroyed or deactivated. ideally though I'd prefer DE to just bite the bullet and make him deal damage based on the weapon you have equipped and his explosion could also deal damage and elemental procs based on the weapon you have equipped as well.

Invisibility is more or less fine, but strangely, Ash is the one who benefits most since his energy cost while cloaked is reduced: Loki should have something similar, since 99% of the time Loki has to cloak to survive anyway. his Decoy could also start actively drawing Agro to even further minimize the risk of damage to Loki.

switch teleport.. ugh. it's incredibly niche, and honestly I wouldn't mind it getting scrapped. some people will say "JuSt SuBsUmE BrUh!" but that's not a solution. if you're gonna swap places with enemies, it should have some benefit, so I propose adding a second effect to the teleport based on who you use the power on: in the case of allies, it shouldn't swap places, because I've only ever seen it used for trolling people; instead Loki can just warp to his ally and it gives them a damage resistance buff or something, while teleporting an enemy will swap places and perhaps have an effect such as a random elemental proc, an immobilizing trap, a percentage of their health/shields/armor taken away etc. teleporting with a decoy is the same as normal, but will also temporarily power up the decoy to increase it's damage and fire rate for a time. a skilled loki can confuse the hell out of enemies by constantly warping their decoy around the battlefield while enjoying the safety of invisibility. to me, this is what playing a trickster should be all about.

Radial Disarm should have the augment made into the base ability, and disarmed enemies should be less likely to Agro Loki or his allies. 

some will probably think my rework a little too "radical" for Loki, but this is just how I feel: I'm not denying he has his uses (he's still top tier for spy and melee combat) but I'm not gonna pretend that he's fine overall when his kit is this old and outdated. if you take away the invisibility and released a frame with similar abilities to his 1, 3 and 4 now, people would riot, because that frame would be borderline useless. "Loki Master Race" needs to accept their god isn't perfect and embrace some change. 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

It`s funny coz I was saying how loki needs improvements and ppl was saying I don't know what I was talking about but after 2018 came ppl now were saying what I was saying.

Anyway with that aside, Loki need either a rework or a revisit but I would prefer a revisit.

If I were to revisit Loki here is what I would do:

Loki:

Spoiler

New Passive: Your attacks will have 100% chance to proc radiation, the proc will last double the duration.

·       The passive will deactivate when using his 2nd ability.

 

1st ability:

·       Enemy`s damage will pass right through it making decoy take no damage.

·       When shooting, enemies will be staggered.

·       While shooting at the same enemy, there is a 50% chance for the enemy to be knocked down, when this happens, enemies within a 15m radius will prioritise the decoy as a dangerous threat increasing threat levels for ten seconds. (threat levels higher than interception and defence targets)

·       When an enemy is knocked down it will target another enemy.

·       It will use whatever secondary weapon Loki is currently has equipped.

 

2nd ability:

·       Remove muffled sound while invisible.

 

3rd ability:

·       After switching with the enemy, loki will be invulnerable for 1 second.

·       Loki is always be facing the enemy he`s switches with.

·       If he teleports into a group of enemies, they will receive a knock down in a 10m radius.

·       You can switch places with crates, barrels and dead bodies.

·       If you have a melee weapon equipped while doing so, enemies will take slide attack damage from melee weapon.

·        (Synergy) If you decide to switch places with the decoy, you and the decoy will knock down enemies within a 15m radius.

 

4th ability:

·       Holding the ability will make enemies weapons explode dealing 1000 damage and knocking them down. This can be increased by strength mods.

·       This will deactivate eximus abilities for 20 seconds. This is not affected by duration mods.

 

Ash also needs a revisit and no matter what ppl say or think facts, stats and ppls actions prove he needs one.

[Sojufueled]

I guess Switch Teleport made sense in the era of Super Jump. Decoy feels very pointless. Loki's passive should just be baseline for all of warframe. Radial Disarm is probably fine, but it does want to to build against invisibility a bit. Loki will never be horrible on the strength of his 2, but Wu and Octavia both pretty much just do everything he does better.

[Tiltskillet]

On 4/6/2023 at 2:28 AM, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

if you're gonna swap places with enemies, it should have some benefit, so I propose adding a second effect to the teleport based on who you use the power on: in the case of allies, it shouldn't swap places, because I've only ever seen it used for trolling people; instead Loki can just warp to his ally and it gives them a damage resistance buff or something, while teleporting an enemy will swap places and perhaps have an effect such as a random elemental proc, an immobilizing trap, a percentage of their health/shields/armor taken away etc. teleporting with a decoy is the same as normal, but will also temporarily power up the decoy to increase it's damage and fire rate for a time.

See, this is good stuff.  Much better than saying to get rid of Switch Tele completely like you did in the other thread.

On 4/6/2023 at 5:15 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

New Passive: Your attacks will have 100% chance to proc radiation, the proc will last double the duration.

·       The passive will deactivate when using his 2nd ability.

Funny thing about radiation and Loki:  it totally fits his theme, but irradiated enemies are also one of the few things that are dangerous for him.

I'm not even saying I don't like the idea.  I do, and I've liked similar proposals too.   It'll spice him up, for sure.  But the spice might also burn a bit on the way out from time to time. :P

[Tyreaus]

I don't think he needs major changes, just some modernization. Invulnerable or scaling 1, making sure 3 on allies doesn't disrupt them, making sure 3 on Decoy doesn't leave the player getting downed without the augment.

My personal wish-list is for 3 and 4 to have innate Radiation procs and armour / shield / general defense strip. Lean on the same trickster / friendly-fire theme, but boosted to the point it can net kills by itself. Irradiating Disarm could be replaced by something like Scavenging Disarm, where Loki gets a 100% ammo efficiency boost and increased fire rate for a duration proportional to the number of enemies disarmed. As if running around and using the enemy's dropped weapons.

No complaints from me if they took a page from Conclave Loki and let the decoy start capping fools, though. Might not fit his theme quite so well but, hey, the precedent is there, and it'd synergize with defense strips too.

[(NSW)Mechanatee-8]

Loki abilities

Decoy-

4 varient option (similar to ivara)

•decoy reflecing shape of enemy moveable when loki invis and do somthing like a double agent and aid loki by moving without prevention since you are an "ally" (notsure if should be for attack or not because loki to me should be more deception and not violence imo)

•using built up attack from enemies reflect radiation damage in a small radius similar to radial disarm when killed leading to infighting 

• muilti clone not based on reticle but simply a low range area placement of several clones placed at random. (could even help with deceptive bond augment since more clones means easier for loki to survive cuz they can take more damage in your stead)

•Movable decoy of self also controllable if invis but after invisiblity ends instant swap teleport regardless of visual connection between self and decoy (augment?)

Switch teleport- 

(Each option is its own being)

•Ability to swap teleport regardless of posistion on y axis Allowing to abuse fall damage

• ability to mark enemy/or ally for teleport but not instantly similar to ashes 4th where 2 imputs are required to activate if we could mark several targets and tap to teleport to each one after the other imagine the mass confusion you could apply to large groups  (maybe a prompt for who is marked to deny teleportation or way to not be teleported like how people affected by rift of limbo and roll to exit the seperate realm)

•status swap teleport-shed negitive status currently applied and apply them to an enemy you swap with and give resistance to allys to that status 

•augment to teleport regardless of there being object to trade places with like enderman would make it useless for swaping but better for movement could be costly to make up for freedom offered like massive movement debuff after usage or durring usage like ivarras prowl augment or massive energy cost

Invisibility-

chefs kiss its perfect

Radial disarm-

•unsure might have to come back to this i have no issues with it really 

[ShogunGunshow]

Make his Decoy invincible, and maybe he procs a radiation/confuse effect or a damage vulnerability in an AoE on enemies at both swap points of Switch Teleport. Done.

[(PSN)jaden0198]

The only change I'd make yo Loki is to switch his invisibility to be a drain skill rather than simply timer based.  He's squishy and has no nuking capabilities.  Why not let him have his niche as the fast invisible frame?

[ReverseKinetix]

Loki is perfectly playable, but that's about it. Not likely to die when invis (imo he has the best invis in the game), and can mass crowd control very effectively. Switch Teleport is pretty bad: Decoy is worse. Bad ability is bad, but at least that's a no contest slot for a subsume. Throw on armor stripping, a damage buff, mobility, or whatever and you got yourself a pretty decent frame. Boring as all get-out but decent. 

[(PSN)NeoReaper82]

Yes, he does. He is so out dated