Stop throwing hate at DE because they're doing something new.

[Felsagger]

12 minutes ago, Sporthand said:

Only fools do not heed critical feedback from clients, so they do not improve their business. 

Critical feedback can be hurtful, but it's a valuable asset.

I will not call DE fools. They are not. At least DE is trying. 

 

I think DE need to HEAR more the clients and PAY ATTENTION to what CLIENTS are experiencing in the game MORE OFTEN. Why not make polls, rubrics, critical videos that illustrates these performances and so on. This can PUT DE back on track FASTER. 

 

 

[Sporthand]

2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

I will not call DE fools. They are not. At least DE is trying. 

 

I think DE need to HEAR more the clients and PAY ATTENTION to what they are experiencing in the game. Why not make polls, rubrics, critical videos that illustrates these performances and so on. This can PUT DE back on track. 

 

 

Fair enough, and you go, man! And, you are representing what I am trying to say. 

[Felsagger]

12 minutes ago, Sporthand said:

Fair enough, and you go, man! And, you are representing what I am trying to say. 

I give credit where is due. 

Duviri has extraordinary landscapes and architecture. 

Duviri has the winged horse and Centipede game play similar to shadows of the colossus. (Anything that reminds me Centipede is a win in my book. :P)

Duviri has a fair good boss fight. 

Duviri has an outstanding music and good character animations. Enemies feels more dexterous and capable. 

Duviri has a good enigmatic story of the butterfly effect and eternalism. 

 

See, those are the positives? Everybody knows them. 

[Zimzala]

16 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Example

Critical thinking example: Duviri needs to be populated with enemies. It looks barren. 

Criticism: Duviri has no future, the content island should be taken out. 

 

I have the right to use my brain, common sense and education.  

I don't have the right to insult other members, mock them or troll them like you do with this alternate troll account. (Your comment history shows this)

Academic level of critical thinking runs like this:

DE should plan ahead and place some personnel for game testing of the code. This will evade a significant number of basic issues with the game mechanics. While DE has a divided labor force with Soulframe, DE can dedicate few people testing the game and sending copies to well known game testers. They could collect data, rectify and implement. DE has a history of other updates where such problems where present. Maybe the code needs more robustness, maybe the problem is working from home due to the Covid time or maybe DE needs more time to perform better releasing their updates. 

That is an academic critique. 

Do I need a big brain to know that there are more than 600 bugs in Duviri when I can visit the hotfix thread section?  

What does that tells you? 

If you enjoy bread crumbs, no one stops you. Other people have standards. Sorry. 

Defensive much?

Seems like I struck a nerve.

I have never said anyone does not a a 'right' to post anything they like, just that some of what I see posted is hilariously illogical.

I am crying laughing at what some people post and sharing in that humor and reflection.

If you enjoy posting breathless critiques of the work of others as if you could do better, when you can show us nothing you have accomplished, beyond criticizing the work of others...no one stops you.

You can imply all day long my standards are somehow inferior to yours, and I will continue to laugh at your antics.

You are so desperate for validation and attention it's kind of sad, really, but I will keep laughing.

Happy Gaming.

[Felsagger]

Let me thumb you up for that one mister Zimzala. 

18 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Defensive much?

No, I'm butthurt. Wait can I be mure butthurt? 

I'm butthurt because this game could perform better and many of us don't demand a bit more out of it. 

Eh...maybe is that....I don't know...

18 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Seems like I struck a nerve.

You can do more and contribute instead of trolling. 

When you decide to talk about the game you DO have good ideas. 

18 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

I have never said anyone does not a a 'right' to post anything they like, just that some of what I see posted is hilariously illogical.

Maybe people wants to make a statement. 

 

I know what is a GAAS F2P game and I know what is a single player game. 

Just a note....

18 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

I am crying laughing at what some people post and sharing in that humor and reflection.

If you enjoy posting breathless critiques of the work of others as if you could do better, when you can show us nothing you have accomplished, beyond criticizing the work of others...no one stops you.

"Well that's like your opinion man...."

If you enjoy trolling, carry on. Looks like you have a free license to do so. :P

18 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

You can imply all day long my standards are somehow inferior to yours, and I will continue to laugh at your antics.

But you missed the point. 

It's about a solid delivery, something that will benefit DE on the long run. 

Example: NO MAN SKY. 

18 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

You are so desperate for validation and attention it's kind of sad, really, but I will keep laughing.

If that makes your day, carry on and keep laughing. 

Wait, I think you are just cackling.....

18 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Happy Gaming.

Thank you. 

[Zimzala]

4 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

No, I'm butthurt. Wait can I be mure butthurt? 

I'm butthurt because this game could perform better and many of us don't demand a bit more out of it. 

Eh...maybe is that....I don't know...

You can do more and contribute instead of trolling. 

When you decide to talk about the game you DO have good ideas. 

Maybe people wants to make a statement. 

 

I know what is a GAAS F2P game and I know what is a single player game. 

Just a note....

"Well that's like your opinion man...."

If you enjoy trolling, carry on. Looks like you have a free license to do so. :P

But you missed the point. 

It's about a solid delivery, something that will benefit DE on the long run. 

Example: NO MAN SKY. 

If that makes your day, carry on and keep laughing. 

Wait, I think you are just cackling.....

Thank you. 

No points missed.

You are somehow so upset that you feel the need to go onto an online forum and berate the players that enjoy the game, with gaslighting and passive-aggressive attacks on their 'integrity as gamers for accepting reality', and yet also think that anyone that disagrees is somehow attacking your rights to feel and think what you like, so they should be attacked as if they are not allowed to post what they like.

My choices are to cry or to laugh at the absurdity.

I choose to laugh as much as I can, and you provide a lot of entertainment, even if these forums are more pleasant when you are not posting.

Your entire schtick of 'karen-ing' DE is hilarious, if still a little sad.

Your attempts to look and sound 'reasonable' since you have lately decided to post a positive note here and there as if it balances out all of the other negative things you spout are just as hilarious from my POV, as if a few kind words 'make it all ok'.

So, no points missed - you think DE is not 'up to your exacting specifications' and you feel the constant need to remind others of that - it's freaking hilarious that you can do that and while still trying and convince everyone you are the 'cool kid' and get more validation from the other arm-chair critics. 

I give my POV, you attack me and call me a troll, and I laugh at you - this is our online relationship - it's very entertaining.

You are welcome! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

[PKBeam]

2 hours ago, Duskztar said:

Is that wrong? Seems like every update completely ignores Warframe's core gameplay so the devs can put entirely new random games into Warframe. This time we got their attempt at Elden Ring and it did not deliver. Before you mention Lua's Prey or Last Wish, that's one survival and defense mission. Nothing new there.

So Lua and Mars are bad because they aren't new, but then Duviri's also bad because it's new. 

And we're ignoring AotZ, the Parvos sisters, the Corpus ship tileset update and Steel Path, since they're obviously either not new or too new.

Please define your core gameplay newness thresholds.

2 hours ago, Duskztar said:

Did you accidentally boot up Elden Ring and mistake it for Duviri? Drifter combat is slow, clunky and annoying. Just like Kahl proved, forcing me to play something way slower and less mobile than my warframes sucks. Shocker.

I wouldn't mind if they trimmed half a second off of most of the Drifter's combat animations, but Drifter combat is fine. It keeps pace with the other sword combat games out there. And once you pick up a few good decrees you'll be killing those Dax just as fast as you could with a Warframe.

Not liking it because it's not as extremely fast paced as combat in Warframes is entirely a personal preference. 

And finally...

2 hours ago, Duskztar said:

Don't kid yourself by calling Duviri "innovative,"

You've completely missed the point of my paragraph.

Also, please quote me on the exact portion of my post where I said Duviri was innovative.

2 hours ago, Duskztar said:

Let me put it this way: Would I play Duviri again once I have all the weapons, intrinsics and materials for the incarnons? I give the same answer I'd give for Kahl missions: Hell no. Not with a ten foot pole, I'd just stick to Circuit, the one good piece of gameplay in this update.

A valid opinion.

2 hours ago, Duskztar said:

You couldn't downplay the problems harder if you tried. 

Oh, I could have just left out that last paragraph completely. That would definitely be some effortless downplaying.

And looking back, perhaps I should have. If people refuse to recognise criticism that isn't as strong as theirs then I suppose I've just wasted a minute of my life there. Sad.

2 hours ago, Duskztar said:

Stop being a yes-man for DE, seriously. 

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

2 hours ago, Duskztar said:

This update was NOT ready for launch. It barely functions and still routinely breaks multiple hotfixes later. For it to launch in such a buggy, unplayable state is unacceptable and they deserve all the criticism they get for pushing out the update in such a sorry state. Even now half the time objectives don't spawn in the undercroft, softlocking you. Host migrations still can, and will, break your objectives and force you to abort. Objectives would just not function and force you to abort. It would even crash on multiple occasions. The cinematic quest would bug out in cutscenes if you equipped the new animation sets (How did they miss that???) 

Yeah, those definitely sound like they could be described as "some severe bugs". I should've mentioned that, my bad.

And finally,

2 hours ago, Duskztar said:

This time we got their attempt at Elden Ring

Did you accidentally boot up Elden Ring and mistake it for Duviri? 

 It doesn't even pretend to hide how heavily it's influenced by Elden Ring

The whole time I play it I just think "Man, I'd be having fun if I were actually playing Elden Ring."

This is just bizarre. 

Duviri was revealed in mid-2019, which means they would have known what the expansion would look like at a high level. 

There's no need for me to remind you that Elden Ring released in 2022. Duviri's combat would almost certainly have been finalised before then.

But yeah, we've definitely seen Duviri's parry and dodge roll mechanics somewhere.

Perhaps one of the designers took inspiration from For Honor (2017), Assassins Creed 4 (2013) or The Witcher (2007)?
Maybe one of the team leads found their dusty old Gamecube and played a bit of TLoZ Twilight Princess (2006)?
A few of those even have large explorable landscapes, so maybe DE is just ripping off Nintendo or CDPR now.

You don't like Duviri because:
A. it reminds you of the most recent open world game you played that had sword combat in it, and
B. it doesn't surpass what said open world game was trying to do.

Point B was clearly never going to happen, since we had a split 4-year dev cycle next to a 7-year one.

But that's cool, Elden Ring is a good game. We're allowed to enjoy it. Doesn't mean Duviri is bad for not having a better combat system.

Besides, that argument is generic:

It's quite obvious that Elden Ring sucks; it's just From Software's attempt at Breath of the Wild, or Witcher 3, or Assassin's Creed Valhalla. 

[Felsagger]

Another thumb up for you Zimzalla. have fun. :D

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

No points missed.

I have the same coffee as you do. 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

You are somehow so upset that you feel the need to go onto an online forum and berate the players that enjoy the game, with gaslighting and passive-aggressive attacks on their 'integrity as gamers for accepting reality', and yet also think that anyone that disagrees is somehow attacking your rights to feel and think what you like, so they should be attacked as if they are not allowed to post what they like.

That's false. 

I don't stop anyone from playing any video game. You enjoy your cup of tea, I enjoy mine. 

Simple. 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

My choices are to cry or to laugh at the absurdity.

Gud, gud.....:)

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

I choose to laugh as much as I can, and you provide a lot of entertainment, even if these forums are more pleasant when you are not posting.

There are other regions that I am not interested on these forums. You can post there or UPDATE your ignore list, mang. 

:D

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Your entire schtick of 'karen-ing' DE is hilarious, if still a little sad.

So you have to approve my posts? Well, that's a new one. 

I'll take that into consideration next time. 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Your attempts to look and sound 'reasonable' since you have lately decided to post a positive note here and there as if it balances out all of the other negative things you spout are just as hilarious from my POV, as if a few kind words 'make it all ok'.

I do that all the time. Remember Im the 50/50 individual. I place the good things and the things that needs improvement. 

What you call negative I call it critical thinking. 

Wait, you felt the need to post again because you failed to get the answer you were looking for? Oh, ok.. 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

So, no points missed - you think DE is not 'up to your exacting specifications' and you feel the constant need to remind others of that - it's freaking hilarious that you can do that and while still trying and convince everyone you are the 'cool kid' and get more validation from the other arm-chair critics. 

I don't need to remind anyone that. I state things as they are. 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

I give my POV, you attack me and call me a troll, and I laugh at you - this is our online relationship - it's very entertaining. You are welcome! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

I think you need to drink some water. It will help you get some oxygen. I hope your trolling improve. You might make it, someday :D

 

[Felsagger]

3 hours ago, PKBeam said:

 

It's quite obvious that Elden Ring sucks 

 

I am not so sure about that. 

 

Are you? 

[Hypernaut1]

33 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

I am not so sure about that. 

 

Are you? 

I didn't like it and would play Warframe over ER. I bought ER day one too.

[Duskztar]

5 hours ago, PKBeam said:

So Lua and Mars are bad because they aren't new, but then Duviri's also bad because it's new. 

And we're ignoring AotZ, the Parvos sisters, the Corpus ship tileset update and Steel Path, since they're obviously either not new or too new.

Please define your core gameplay newness thresholds.

I never said those updates were bad, I actually enjoyed them. Problem is they're small, as though the main game isn't worthy of anything but small updates as an afterthought while they work on shoving as many entirely different games into Warframe as possible.

AotZ was a very good update, minus the forced operator segments, one of the best recent updates actually. It was also over a year ago. In fact everything else you mentioned was nearly two years ago.

Now if we're done with the strawman...

5 hours ago, PKBeam said:

I wouldn't mind if they trimmed half a second off of most of the Drifter's combat animations, but Drifter combat is fine. It keeps pace with the other sword combat games out there. And once you pick up a few good decrees you'll be killing those Dax just as fast as you could with a Warframe.

Not liking it because it's not as extremely fast paced as combat in Warframes is entirely a personal preference.

The drifter combat most certainly does not "keep pace with the other sword combat games" I guarantee whatever games you were thinking of were of a much higher caliber because those games were designed from the ground up for it, unlike Duviri which is trying to force a style of gameplay that doesn't fit Warframe anymore, like Kahl missions.

You're right that not liking it is a personal preference. I would go so far as to guess that anyone playing Warframe probably enjoys and even prefers the "extremely fast paced" combat that's been at the game's core for years now. Crazy thought, I know.

5 hours ago, PKBeam said:

Also, please quote me on the exact portion of my post where I said Duviri was innovative.

Sure:

On 2023-04-27 at 11:23 PM, PKBeam said:

Duviri is a refreshing update that proves DE can still innovate.

If you weren't talking about Duviri, then what were you talking about? And does that mean you don't think Duviri is innovative?

5 hours ago, PKBeam said:

Oh, I could have just left out that last paragraph completely. That would definitely be some effortless downplaying.

And looking back, perhaps I should have. If people refuse to recognise criticism that isn't as strong as theirs then I suppose I've just wasted a minute of my life there. Sad.

"some severe bugs" is legitimately all you said about the game breaking bugs. It's sad that that's the norm with Warframe updates, but I agree that you may as well have left that paragraph out considering how quickly you glossed over the update not even functioning half the time

5 hours ago, PKBeam said:

Yeah, those definitely sound like they could be described as "some severe bugs". I should've mentioned that, my bad.

see above

5 hours ago, PKBeam said:

This is just bizarre. 

Duviri was revealed in mid-2019, which means they would have known what the expansion would look like at a high level. 

There's no need for me to remind you that Elden Ring released in 2022. Duviri's combat would almost certainly have been finalised before then.

But yeah, we've definitely seen Duviri's parry and dodge roll mechanics somewhere.

Perhaps one of the designers took inspiration from For Honor (2017), Assassins Creed 4 (2013) or The Witcher (2007)?
Maybe one of the team leads found their dusty old Gamecube and played a bit of TLoZ Twilight Princess (2006)?
A few of those even have large explorable landscapes, so maybe DE is just ripping off Nintendo or CDPR now.

You don't like Duviri because:
A. it reminds you of the most recent open world game you played that had sword combat in it, and
B. it doesn't surpass what said open world game was trying to do.

Point B was clearly never going to happen, since we had a split 4-year dev cycle next to a 7-year one.

But that's cool, Elden Ring is a good game. We're allowed to enjoy it. Doesn't mean Duviri is bad for not having a better combat system.

Besides, that argument is generic:

It's quite obvious that Elden Ring sucks; it's just From Software's attempt at Breath of the Wild, or Witcher 3, or Assassin's Creed Valhalla. 

You're right that perhaps they didn't take inspiration purely from Elden Ring. Maybe they also took it from Dark Souls 1, 2 & 3. I say Elden Ring because Kaithe is so transparently Torrent it hurts and because DE has openly admitted they took some inspiration from Elden Ring, so all those sarcastic paragraphs are moot.

So you admit Duviri was never going to compete with a game built from the ground up around open world melee combat. This begs the question: why design it that way in the first place then? I'm sure you've heard this many times, but you've heard it for good reason, "if I wanted to play <insert game here>, I'd play that, not Warframe!" It's a common and reasonable complaint.

Elden Ring did indeed jump on the open world fad, but they did it right. In fact they did it so well they made one of the greatest games I've ever played (pvp aside) Inspiration isn't necessarily bad, but you have to improve on it and innovate, not slap whatever cool mechanics that are popular at the moment together and hope it works.

[Mediloric]

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

I hope your trolling improve. You might make it, someday :D

Gotta be said: If it's making you this riled... then it's clearly worked and you went for it.

[latetier]

acting like warframe is making anything new is just silly. its just the same old content/loot island spinoff updates they've been making for years now. its not even warframe anymore.

its obvious they want to make a new game but refuse to do so for some weird reason, instead they make some haphazard content islands and slap it on to warframe with duck tape and call it "new"

next new big update will be some vampire survivor copy but in warframe. 😂

 

[Marvelous_A]

2 minutes ago, latetier said:

acting like warframe is making anything new is just silly. its just the same old content/loot island spinoff updates they've been making for years now. its not even warframe anymore.

its obvious they want to make a new game but refuse to do so for some weird reason, instead they make some haphazard content islands and slap it on to warframe with duck tape and call it "new"

next new big update will be some vampire survivor copy but in warframe. 😂

 

A common theory is that Duviri is the alpha build playtest platform of Soulframe, the next title of DE. Personally I think it's rather convincing.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Mediloric said:

Gotta be said: If it's making you this riled... then it's clearly worked and you went for it.

I know him. I probably could get riled more if my coffee is cold. That's actually a reason to bet riled. 

 

But for a game? Well if the game is bad or good, well, I simply pick another. Case closed. That simple. 

[Felsagger]

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I didn't like it and would play Warframe over ER. I bought ER day one too.

LMAO. 

I already predicted that answer from you. 

It's quite strange because I have a problem with From Software games. I sucked at them because I was not getting the thesis out of them until I went full mechanical skill on my approach. These games are not for everybody. These games can make you throw a couple of gamepads and keyboards depending your your platform of choice. 

Right now I got into chess. That game is way harder than it looks and such game requires full brain activity of predictions and strategy. I think chess is the mother of all games. It has everything. But again, Warframe suits your shoes and you enjoy the walk. 

To be honest. I am not interested in Soulframe. I don't think DE has the expertise for such genre. I leave that business to From Software. DE is an expert in Warframe. That's where their business is at. 

 

[Felsagger]

25 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

A common theory is that Duviri is the alpha build playtest platform of Soulframe, the next title of DE. Personally I think it's rather convincing.

It's a soulframe introduction. 

 

Let me make things deeply interesting. It would rather be a bold move and at the same time wild risk to see a parallel between Soulframe and Warframe. If both products connects at some point would be rather an amazing ride. 

DE started with a vision of the future progressing slowly towards the past. Soulframe is the past of such universe where Warframe took place. If DE roll their ball as a parallel set of two games with different connections between them THIS could be a good ride. 

If that where the case. 

[Sporthand]

11 hours ago, Zimzala said:

I give my POV, you attack me and call me a troll, and I laugh at you - this is our online relationship - it's very entertaining.

You are welcome! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

11 hours ago, Zimzala said:

My choices are to cry or to laugh at the absurdity.

I choose to laugh as much as I can, and you provide a lot of entertainment, even if these forums are more pleasant when you are not posting.

It would be best if you didn't leave regretful comments like this when you are upset.

By the way, you have left such a regretful comment bashing not only to @Felsagger but also all people who side with you. 

You are telling opponents that the DE dev team and your supporters are bashing people who left opposing feedback, and that is not true.

If I am your supporter, I feel humiliated and ask you for an apology comment to your opponent.

As Master Teshin taught us, you show respect and honor to your enemies in Dojo. But, you left this resentful and dishonorable comment to all Tennos. 

 

@Felsagger left respectful to you, even though you left offensive comments and no valid opposing argument to him. I would ask you to apologize to him sincerely before continuing your opinion.

 

@Felsagger Carry on, man! You are doing well!

[Felsagger]

Don't pay attention to him. Continue with the thread discussion. 

 

[Julian083]

Uranus archwing spy and on-foot mission in railjack feels like a masterpiece compared to undercroft session in duviri,

The circuit and decree is a good idea and I am satisfy with them. Also duviri as a map is beautiful and interesting to explore. However randomness of circuit just show how many bad weapons are in warframe. I will never build a stug or aklato just to use them in the circuit or duviri.

Not to mention DE try to solve the content island problem by forcing player to play warframe session in duviri with undercroft. It is so painful to feel two different combat style and you can't purely enjoy a single mode.

Drifter's clunky combat is the reason why it will be hard to DE for player to adapt and enjoy the new open world. It's clunky, the auto lock is annoying and it is just clearly a soulframe beta. It is almost insulting that DE spend 4-5 years on this update and give us this combat experience.

[(XBOX)Mineslayer2010]

16 minutes ago, Julian083 said:

Uranus archwing spy and on-foot mission in railjack feels like a masterpiece compared to undercroft session in duviri,

The circuit and decree is a good idea and I am satisfy with them. Also duviri as a map is beautiful and interesting to explore. However randomness of circuit just show how many bad weapons are in warframe. I will never build a stug or aklato just to use them in the circuit or duviri.

Not to mention DE try to solve the content island problem by forcing player to play warframe session in duviri with undercroft. It is so painful to feel two different combat style and you can't purely enjoy a single mode.

Drifter's clunky combat is the reason why it will be hard to DE for player to adapt and enjoy the new open world. It's clunky, the auto lock is annoying and it is just clearly a soulframe beta. It is almost insulting that DE spend 4-5 years on this update and give us this combat experience.

I do agree. The two different combat styles clash, but it flows pretty well after a while. The drifter feels clunky depending on what melee you use.  Using sun and moon on a first glance made it feel really bad. But if you use the Edun, it's smooth as butter. Of course, there are some other reasons why it feels clunky but for me, that was the main reason. 

[TheGuyver]

On 2023-04-30 at 12:57 AM, Sporthand said:

 

@Felsagger  respectful

Now here are two things I never thought I would read in the same sentence. Looks like we spotted the alt account lol

[Felsagger]

19 minutes ago, TheGuyver said:

Now here are two things I never thought I would read in the same sentence. Looks like we spotted the alt account lol

Being respectful is something that I know how to do well too. 

 

People never remains the same. Besides I have this account only. My PSN account is felsager with one g. 

 

AND STOP NECROPOSTING, to the other accounts. Let this thread die. ffs

[Sporthand]

11 hours ago, TheGuyver said:

Now here are two things I never thought I would read in the same sentence. Looks like we spotted the alt account lol

I kindly take it as a joke!

[.Stormtopia.]

The sad part about Duviri is that you can't use the weapons warframes use. Only swords. Also, no other AMP can be used. I'm pretty sure the Drifter can use a Strun or a Tigris. That was the original concept from the first trailer.

On 2023-04-30 at 1:32 AM, Felsagger said:

It's a soulframe introduction. 

 

Let me make things deeply interesting. It would rather be a bold move and at the same time wild risk to see a parallel between Soulframe and Warframe. If both products connects at some point would be rather an amazing ride. 

DE started with a vision of the future progressing slowly towards the past. Soulframe is the past of such universe where Warframe took place. If DE roll their ball as a parallel set of two games with different connections between them THIS could be a good ride. 

If that where the case. 

That would be crazy if true. Looking at the Orokin Empire and what was before everything we already know. Good roleplay. Doesn't have to be direct.