Can DE JUST MAKE ABANDONING LICHES AN OPTION?!

[Skoomaseller]

11 minutes ago, RafMatador22 said:

Alright, so what? your problem.

just saying lol. you are free to sound as silly as you like, silly tenno

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)CaligulaTwily said:

Oh that was fast, I edited that comment in, thought better, and edited it back out again. 

It shouldn't exist, my bad. I had changed my mind 

all good. 

[Cerikus]

5 minutes ago, RafMatador22 said:

Um, kind of weird comparison... The "his problem" I referred to specifically refers to the fact that he thinks my opinion is stupid. which is very different from me seeing a person bleeding in front of me and saying, well "that's your problem". It's not because I disagree with you, that I'm a maniac, if you have that kind of thought, sorry but it's very childish.

No, I didn't mean it like that. You just used similar wording, which somehow reminded me of this funny situation that happened like 20 years ago.

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

19 minutes ago, RafMatador22 said:

Alright buddy, if you'd like the game to hold your hand, over all the action you're going to do, that's fine, it's everyone's right, I don't like it. The lack of clarity doesn't bother me because I do research beforehand about what it will entail for me.

See, transparency & hand-holding are two different things entirely. Interactive tutorials hold your hand while you're learning about the basic controls of a game. Introductions to entirely new mechanics outside of the basics require some degree of transparency, otherwise players won't know how to properly engage with those mechanics, especially in a grinding game. Liches require a metric boatload of information in order to get through the slog properly.

The Parazon is a major component for progressing with your Lich, and in order to make that progress meaningful, you need Requiem Mods. Requiem Mods are acquired by opening Requiem Relics in the Kuva Fortress void missions (or through trading), but said Relics are also acquired by killing grunts in Kuva Siphons, Floods & Lich missions. Only by having the right order of Mods can you then progress to the final confrontation in your Railjack, which is a whole new can of worms. Other factors to consider are your progenitor 'Frame & Valence Fusion.

Any sort of information is better than none, and the fact that players have to resort to outside sources is embarrassing. You can be a lone wolf for as long as you want to be, and more power to you for that, but that methodology hinders the health of this game. You simply cannot treat Warframe like Dark Souls. Dark Souls, let alone any other recent FromSoftware title, knows what kind of gameplay it's going for, and that'll never change in any drastic way. Warframe's year 1, much like DE, is incomparable to year 10. If DE truly does aspire to make this game a casual power fantasy, they need to nail the "casual" aspect through transparency.

[RafMatador22]

10 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

just saying lol. you are free to sound as silly as you like, silly tenno

all good. 

Well, if you think I look silly, that's your problem too. I understand that many times when you don't have much to say, some people resort to adjectives that don't add anything to a discussion. it's just one of the human flaws.

[L3512]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)CaligulaTwily said:

Modding is the simplest thing, I agree. Put on 90% fire mod, weapon gains 90% fire damage. Put on +cc, weapon gains +cc

If new players can't figure that out on their own, I dont want them to be players at all. Go play, I dunno, with some sticks and a rock if thats too complex

Given your basic lack of WF knowledge you are coming across as both ignorant and arrogant, separately either can be worked around but together they form a formidable combination.

You simply don't know what you don't know and are too self assured to question that.

Edited June 13, 2023 by L3512

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

15 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Given your basic lack of WF knowledge you are coming across as both ignorant and arrogant, separately either can be worked around but together they form a formidable combination.

You simply don't know what you don't know and are too self assured to question that.

I'm not too self assured? Or something? I'll admit I can be stupid, sometimes acting $&*^ish based on mood. I always like learning new information tho. I guess I could Google what I don't completely know about the modding system, but I've been able to *figure it out enough* to make it work, so have no real reason to go googling.

 

Lack of basic knowledge? I disagree 

Basic lack of knowledge? I've been told "I'm knowledgeable" but, I agree with you there. I sure as hell don't feel smart. Basic lack of warframe knowledge tho? Disagree again 

 

 

Also "go googling" there we go, another winner for add more information to WF

Edited June 13, 2023 by (XBOX)CaligulaTwily

[TARINunit9]

Hmm...

I wonder if "Lich cannot level up if it is the player's first Lich and they own no requiem mods" would be possible? It would alleviate all of the problems I agree are an actual problem

[deucich]

Having an active lich does not lock you out from anything but spawning another lich\sister. Loosing a bit of loot on just one planet in the whole system and getting occasional voice messages from lich are not something that couldn't be ignored. So, what is the issue?

On the other hand, the ability to abandon lich would lead to exploits. Low progenitor damage bonus, no ephemera? Just drop and make another lich.

Locking liches behind high MR would punish players with lower MR that are capable to do lich hunts or just aware of the fact that game is online and you can find a teammate where you fail solo.

All in all, it's better the way it is now

[Cerikus]

23 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Hmm...

I wonder if "Lich cannot level up if it is the player's first Lich and they own no requiem mods" would be possible? It would alleviate all of the problems I agree are an actual problem

Not a solution.

Creating obstructions, so player cannot accidentally do something they have no idea it exists doesn't fix the problem that they have no idea it exists.

There should be a TUTORIAL.

You finish War within and you get an inbox.
It's Teshin, he says you must visit him.
You come to Relay to see him and he says something like:

"There is a new threat in the origin system. Worm queen has given Kuva to grineer soldiers.
We have no idea what will happen, if that soldier will face your powers, Tenno!
You better be careful."

Then a text box appears.

Tenno. Worm queen has deployed larvlings.
Killing a larvling will create your personal adversary.
These adversaries - Kuva Liches are very powerful.
Be cautious. Only an experienced Tenno can survive meeting a Kuva Lich.

BAM, Solved.

I know I unlocked something. I know how it is called. I know how to enable the content. I know it's difficult.
 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Cerikus

[MutoManiac]

I also got one when I didn’t know any better. Just ignore it for a few months like I did until I was more powerful. Then I also asked for help. There are plenty of helpful Tennos out there that will be glad to carry you if you really want to get rid of it quickly. You’ll be surprised how easy they become after doing a few. GL

[Skoomaseller]

42 minutes ago, RafMatador22 said:

Well, if you think I look silly, that's your problem too. I understand that many times when you don't have much to say, some people resort to adjectives that don't add anything to a discussion. it's just one of the human flaws.

>gives strawman argument 

>gets called out 

>"uhhh well that's ur problem bro"

>"uhh you resort to using """adjectives""" when u have nothing to say" but casually ignores my thought out explanation and counterargument 

lol

[RafMatador22]

5 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

>gives strawman argument 

>gets called out 

>"uhhh well that's ur problem bro"

>"uhh you resort to using """adjectives""" when u have nothing to say" but casually ignores my thought out explanation and counterargument 

lol

I wasn't even talking to you friend, you came to talk to me, your arguments don't interest me because they are the same ones I disagreed with before, who saw the lack of clarity in the game as a problem, which for me is not . We can spend the whole night here, you saying it's a problem for you and not for me. And finally, I'm not silly for disagreeing with you, I just disagree. Why I disagree I already said.

[Skoomaseller]

17 minutes ago, deucich said:

Having an active lich does not lock you out from anything but spawning another lich\sister. Loosing a bit of loot on just one planet in the whole system and getting occasional voice messages from lich are not something that couldn't be ignored. So, what is the issue?

the issue is not really about the impact of having an active lich/sister and more about the player not understanding what they're getting into.

lower mr, less prepared tenno don't know what to expect and then when they have a level 4/5 lich they just grow frustrated. that's not very fun now, is it?

20 minutes ago, deucich said:

On the other hand, the ability to abandon lich would lead to exploits. Low progenitor damage bonus, no ephemera? Just drop and make another lich.

Locking liches behind high MR would punish players with lower MR that are capable to do lich hunts or just aware of the fact that game is online and you can find a teammate where you fail solo.

i would argue that this is merely a symptom of a bigger problem, namely the heavy RNG layering of lich/sister encounters

21 minutes ago, deucich said:

All in all, it's better the way it is now

things can definitely be better, lmao. there is a way to make liches/sisters feel like a nemesis without having to apply layers upon layers of rng and poor information.

[WalrusEmperor60]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)CaligulaTwily said:

That'd be kinda cool tbh, paying some Red Veil assassins or something, to slaughter the lich. I'd do it once, just for shiggles.

 

Could someone pay off Red Veil to send assassins after my tenno? I'm curious how tough these Red Veil guys are if they could take out a lich. I hope I'd get to fight a thousand dudes at once (because I can't imagine any number of Red Veil guys being able to slaughter a lich, if a Tenno is having problems)

Would be good for people who accidentally make a lich and don't want it. Maybe they could get rid of it's effects instantly, but take like a week to actually get rid of it for good so people don't constantly use it to reroll weapon bonuses

[Skoomaseller]

11 minutes ago, RafMatador22 said:

I wasn't even talking to you friend, you came to talk to me, your arguments don't interest me because they are the same ones I disagreed with before, who saw the lack of clarity in the game as a problem, which for me is not . We can spend the whole night here, you saying it's a problem for you and not for me. And finally, I'm not silly for disagreeing with you, I just disagree. Why I disagree I already said.

no you are definitely silly. I called you out on your strawman response to cerikus AND questioned why you were even here in the first place, if the topic at hand is supposedly not a problem for you, and you ran away with your tail in between your legs. "well that's your problem!!!" you are definitely talking to me now.

also you disagreeing doesn't change the fact that the lack of info is a problem in the game lol

Edited June 13, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[RafMatador22]

1 minute ago, Skoomaseller said:

no you are definitely silly. I called you out on your strawman response to cerikus and you ran away with your tail in between your legs. "well that's your problem!!!" you are definitely talking to me now.

also you disagreeing doesn't change the fact that the lack of info is a problem in the game lol

What you think I am or not really doesn't interest me one bit, I'm just saying if this is a game issue for you, it's not for me.

[Skoomaseller]

Just now, RafMatador22 said:

What you think I am or not really doesn't interest me one bit, I'm just saying if this is a game issue for you, it's not for me.

so you are here just to be a contrarian. got it. 

[RafMatador22]

Just now, Skoomaseller said:

so you are here just to be a contrarian. got it. 

No. I'm speaking my mind, if that goes against what you think, there's absolutely nothing I can do.

[(XBOX)Affective64]

12 minutes ago, RafMatador22 said:

What you think I am or not really doesn't interest me one bit, I'm just saying if this is a game issue for you, it's not for me.

Dude, i came here to vent about bad game design, and your over here "well it's not a problem for me". Ok? So? What, your point is that you're an experienced player that know what they're doing? The world doesn't revolve around you. Good for you if you're too good for the game

Edited June 13, 2023 by (XBOX)Affective64

[RafMatador22]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Affective64 said:

Dude, i came here to vent about bad game design, and your over here "well it's not a problem for me". Ok? So? What, your point is that you're an experienced player that know what they're doing? The world doesn't revolve around you.

Read carefully, this message of mine was not directed to you.

[(XBOX)Affective64]

12 minutes ago, RafMatador22 said:

Read carefully, this message of mine was not directed to you.

You've been here for hours exclaiming "It's not a problem for me". You could've said it once, and before you say "Well they kept responding to me so i responded to them!", i have a little quote my grandma told me. "If something or someone making you angry or upset, stop doing that thing or just ignore that person." 

If you're really getting vexed over the forums, maybe you shouldn't have clicked on in the first place.

Edited June 13, 2023 by (XBOX)Affective64

[deucich]

7 минут назад, Skoomaseller сказал:

the issue is not really about the impact of having an active lich/sister and more about the player not understanding what they're getting into.

lower mr, less prepared tenno don't know what to expect and then when they have a level 4/5 lich they just grow frustrated. that's not very fun now, is it?

It's not better understanding that OP asked for. And it isn't realistic thing to get. People do not look into problems they haven't encountered yet. Any beforehand text warning you will throw at players would be just ignored. You can look at all those threads about quitting The New War quest.

26 минут назад, Skoomaseller сказал:

i would argue that this is merely a symptom of a bigger problem, namely the heavy RNG layering of lich/sister encounters

It's less rng than most other things in this game. You can get a needed gun in a finite number of attempts (19 at max) and you can max this gun out in 10 fusions at worst.

33 минуты назад, Skoomaseller сказал:

things can definitely be better, lmao. there is a way to make liches/sisters feel like a nemesis without having to apply layers upon layers of rng and poor information.

The water can be cleaner, the sun can be shinier and we can be younger.  What else? I was addressing abandoning function and\or MR requirments.

[Leqesai]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Affective64 said:

It is mind-boggolingly ret_rded how newer players like me are punished so hard for something we didn't know we were getting ourselves into. I've never done higher-level content or liches because i never felt like it was worth my time, so, of course, i stabbed the Kuva Larvling thing because it TOLD ME TO and now i am being punished for SOMETHING THATS NOT MY FU__ING FAULT. DE, can you just make your game better please? Having the ability to abandon liches or making liches MR20+ Exclusives or something would make the game so much better and i feel that thousands of players are also agreeing with me on this. Hell, just telling us what we're actually getting into with like a pop-up screen is also a good idea. No players actively want to have poorly designed missions and hyperleveled content shoved down their throats, i don't care if i'm losing what the Lich stole just let me abandon it, I don't care about it or it's weapon. What i'm trying to say with this rant is let lower-level players (MR15 and below) opt out of Kuva Liches, when they didn't know what they were getting into.

Issues related to liches have been brought up for years. While I don't personally find them problematic, I can absolutely sympathize with inexperienced players feeling like having a lich is gating their progress. I'm honestly not sure why this hasn't been addressed by now but I assume it has to do with the potential of people farming liches and dumping them when they get a poor roll on the weapon and/or no ephemera. 

Personally, I don't really think this change would be a net negative though. I imagine many players are put off continuing to play Warframe due to issues with liches. Seems like it would be to DE's benefit to let players dump the ones they don't want, if even so they can farm repeatedly for specific weapons, ephemeras, names, looks etc.

Give dumping them a cost (lose all the resources they have stolen. Require a special item with a 24hr crafting timer to dump a lich... lock ephemera knowledge behind capturing/vanquishing etc.) would make sense. Point is, there's certainly a solution that gives new players the option while not totally borking the system.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Leqesai

[MqToasty]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Affective64 said:

It is mind-boggolingly ret_rded how newer players like me are punished so hard for something we didn't know we were getting ourselves into. I've never done higher-level content or liches because i never felt like it was worth my time, so, of course, i stabbed the Kuva Larvling thing because it TOLD ME TO and now i am being punished for SOMETHING THATS NOT MY FU__ING FAULT. DE, can you just make your game better please? Having the ability to abandon liches or making liches MR20+ Exclusives or something would make the game so much better and i feel that thousands of players are also agreeing with me on this. Hell, just telling us what we're actually getting into with like a pop-up screen is also a good idea. No players actively want to have poorly designed missions and hyperleveled content shoved down their throats, i don't care if i'm losing what the Lich stole just let me abandon it, I don't care about it or it's weapon. What i'm trying to say with this rant is let lower-level players (MR15 and below) opt out of Kuva Liches, when they didn't know what they were getting into.

I very much agree with you.  While I was well past that point when I spawned my first lich, it must be very frustrating finding yourself in this situation accidentally.  Until DE does offer the option to pay off the lich, my only suggestion is to keep playing the other planets and avoiding the high-leveled lich missions on the planet they are squatting on.  Your lich will taunt you a bit when you log in and "borrow" some of your loot when you do normal missions on that planet, but that's it.  Just ignore the lich for now, laugh at how you are ghosting them, and keep playing like normal.

[RafMatador22]

27 minutes ago, (XBOX)Affective64 said:

You've been here for hours exclaiming "It's not a problem for me". You could've said it once, and before you say "Well they kept responding to me so i responded to them!", i have a little quote my grandma told me. "If something or someone making you angry or upset, stop doing that thing or just ignore that person." 

If you're really getting vexed over the forums, maybe you shouldn't have clicked on in the first place.

I said what I think and walked away, and then I just replied who tagged me. That's how the forum works, I'm not upset about anything at all, I just think differently than you do.