Frost it's just fine right now.

[Silligoose]

42 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

So, that was you being "nice". I suppose you being normal is one of those things on Isolation Vault bounties which increase the toxicity level. Always had that feeling there were Warframe forums involved in that stage.

Alright then, I humbly ask of you, o great and omniscient deity of Frost, for mercy for daring to not play him the way you find valid. I guess all the times I successfully utilized him where I needed him and had fun playing the warframe was just you being kind enough to not smite me and my trash inefficiend build out of existence.

 

I use whatever warframe or any other gear however I find feat. If I'm comfortable with the way I play, then I use my experience from playing it to provide some input in discussions like this one. If tomorrow I find a way to play Frost by slide-kicking everyone, I would also consider that a valid way of playing, and maybe even bring it up on forum discussions.

So please, you don't have the authority to dictate me if I know how to play my builds, that's up to me to decide. Do I know how to play Frost as efficiently as possible? Probably not. Your Frost can a thousand times more efficient than mine. But that doesn't invalidate everyone else's experience with him, but yours.

Yep, I even put the smiley face in there and everything in the first reply. In the second reply I took the time to explain how the scaling mechanic works. It is a shame your ego is so fragile you think someone informing you of something you weren't aware of, is toxic. 

Play as you wish, but note the issues you appear to have with Frost's playstyle in terms of having to run around and play tower defence to maintain 4 globes stem from your chosen strategy, as opposed to Frost's kit.

[Felsagger]

10 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

 

Play as you wish, but note the issues you appear to have with Frost's playstyle in terms of having to run around and play tower defence to maintain 4 globes stem from your chosen strategy, as opposed to Frost's kit.

For me frost was and WILL BE one of the best warframes in the game. 

Frost, Rhino, Excalibur, MAGGY and for survivalists Trinity. 

[ant99999]

24 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Yep, I even put the smiley face in there and everything in the first reply. In the second reply I took the time to explain how the scaling mechanic works. It is a shame your ego is so fragile you think someone informing you of something you weren't aware of, is toxic. 

Play as you wish, but note the issues you appear to have with Frost's playstyle in terms of having to run around and play tower defence to maintain 4 globes stem from your chosen strategy, as opposed to Frost's kit.

Ok, that is a surprisingly reasonable response. Not counting in your attempt at insulting me again (which I suppose is your way of communicating), I expected worse.

You didn't point out anything I didn't already know. You didn't even address my initial reply all that much instead focusing solely on damage soaking mechanic. But, fine. I'll just pretend our back and forth never happened not to derail the thread.

Have a nice day.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

Several months ago a post was created telling the problems of the warframe and giving several ideas of reworks (most of them unrealistic and simply wanting to make him the next broken nukeframe), in that post almost completely ignored all the good you can do with the warframe and even comparing him with Hydroid, although some mentioned his usefulness but in the same answer they criticized "the bad" thing of the warframe, without realizing that if we had something to criticize in Frost then we could criticize each existing warframe and demand ridiculous rework of each one.

I can't lie... I'm horrified to think that people rate it so low, I mean how can you compare Frost with Hydroid?

Lately I have seen several similar posts.
 

For those people I have to say:

Everything has its uses, the problem is that here people want all Warframes to be pure DPS... It's as if they don't notice that most of the Warframes are based on only 2 good abilities to be a good dps, to survive or to be good support. Frost doesn't need to be a dps to be strong.

As I already said, Frost is fine. Neither his passive nor his 1 and 2 take away the utility and functionality he has. It is strong for basically any content and if you think that it is not the case it's because you simply do not use it correctly.

For those who like the small Globe:

My way of thinking is quite simple. What's the use of having a small Globe if you have 40 enemies attacking you at the same time? No matter how much life the globe gets, it will disappear quickly. that's why you need use Avalanche with a lot of range, so you reduce the amount of enemies shooting at the globe and your globe lasts longer, at the same time you help your teammates to literally massacre targets that can't do anything.

For those who talk about augments and their usefulness:

I don't use the 2 abilities, nor their augments... why? because I just don't need them... well🎵... from time to time I use 1 to remove the annoying globes but that's it.



Well and with that I say goodbye. Have a nice day.

PD: Sorry if i have some misspellings.

Edited June 20, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
misspellings

[Vermillion-Code]

Lots of cope in here.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

8 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Rejoice Tenno, for Frost's Snowglobe does indeed scale! Much like Iron Skin, there is a brief invulnerability period after casting, during which damage is absorbed and added to Snowglobe's durability 🙂

 

Why does it still get demolished in seconds in sp then? It isn't a great defense ability unfortunately on sp.

[4thBro]

17 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

With the necessary amount of health and energy recovery he is technically unkillable. 

Yes, please elaborate on this for me.

Because he has no innate damage reduction abilities, and stacking armor isn't even close to enough reduction on its own. The only defensive ability from the Helminth is Null Star, but if you have Range at 100+, you're going to constantly lose all your stacks. (Plus you need 300% Duration, lmao.)

You're going to be stuck spamming your Globe because they will die as soon as their invuln period is up, so at this point we're asking...

 

What Frost setup lets you:

1) Have over 95% damage reduction, and ideally over 800 HP? (Bonus: Have HP recovery of some sort, because health orbs are rarer than Condition Overload, and going operator every couple seconds is going to make you fall behind.)

2) Spam abilities every 4 seconds, even if there aren't enough enemies to drop many energy orbs?

3) Have enough Range to freeze all of the enemies shooting at you during Avalanche animation?

4) Have enough Strength (167+) to fully strip armor?

 

Brief Respite builds don't even work, because Eximuses don't get frozen, so they just keep hitting you and popping your shield gate during Avalanche cast. (You also need status immunity, because Heat and Slash will continuously pop your gating as well. It's easy enough to get status immunity from Helminth, but the point is that it's just another obstacle to be required to tackle, and there's just too many for Frost because his default kit doesn't tackle any obstacles on its own.)

 

And, really, that's the crux of the whole discussion. Frost's base kit doesn't tackle any of Warframe's obstacles on its own. So you're left trying to tackle ALL of them through customization, and it's too much weight for customization to carry.

 

You might think your Frost build is good because you can do Hydron just fine. Or because you can extract a Steel Path mission at 5 minutes. But it's not going to hold up under anything that actually applies pressure.

Edited June 20, 2023 by 4thBro

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

3 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Several months ago a post was created telling the problems of the warframe and giving several ideas of reworks (most of them unrealistic and simply wanting to make him the next broken nukeframe), in that post almost completely ignored all the good you can do with the warframe and even comparing him with Hydroid, although some mentioned his usefulness but in the same answer they criticized "the bad" thing of the warframe, without realizing that if we had something to criticize in Frost then we could criticize each existing warframe and demand ridiculous rework of each one.

I can't lie... I'm horrified to think that people rate it so low, I mean how can you compare Frost with Hydroid?

Lately I have seen several similar posts.
 

For those people I have to say:

Everything has its uses, the problem is that here people want all Warframes to be pure DPS... It's as if they don't notice that most of the Warframes are based on only 2 good abilities to be a good dps, to survive or to be good support. Frost doesn't need to be a dps to be strong.

As I already said, Frost is fine. Neither his passive nor his 1 and 2 take away the utility and functionality he has. It is strong for basically any content and if you think that it is not the case it's because you simply do not use it correctly.

For those who like the small Globe:

My way of thinking is quite simple. What's the use of having a small Globe if you have 40 enemies attacking you at the same time? No matter how much life the globe gets, it will disappear quickly. that's why you need use Avalanche with a lot of range, so you reduce the amount of enemies shooting at the globe and your globe lasts longer, at the same time you help your teammates to literally massacre targets that can't do anything.

For those who talk about augments and their usefulness:

I don't use the 2 abilities, nor their augments... why? because I just don't need them... well🎵... from time to time I use 1 to remove the annoying globes but that's it.



Well and with that I say goodbye. Have a nice day.

PD: Sorry if i have some misspellings.

I honestly would like his first two abilities to be more useful.

My repeated request is the following.

"Scaling" damage for his two.  (basically it does more damage the more guys you hit with it.) Doesn't need to be a lot just enough to kill level 50 enemies if I time it right.

An AOE freeze cone for his one.  So I freeze the guys in front of me when I use it instead of just one.  

There's also the Augment idea for his three. but I won't rehash that here. 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 2 horas, 4thBro dijo:

Yes, please elaborate on this for me.

You need several things.

2 Normal Red Shards + 1 Tau Red Shard + mods for the 167% of Ability Strength for a full strip and 252% with the arcanes and aura charged  + 2 Normal Amber Shard for cast speed.

For energy: Dispensary + Equilibrium + Synth Fiber in any pet that can auto revive (its like 350 of energy for each cast) + Zenurik for emergencies.

For shield: Any secondarie with Augur Pact (It's not much but you are going to be spamming Avalanche and Globe and for the shield gatling it works just fine).

For healing: Molt Reconstruct (An Avalanche heals 600 of health).

hace 3 horas, (PSN)Joylesstuna dijo:

Why does it still get demolished in seconds in sp then? It isn't a great defense ability unfortunately on sp.

I use all the time in SP and Work fine, you just need to use Avalanche. Your problem is basically that you want a Globe with 300k-500k+ health(random numbers after absorbing enemy damage) to last forever vs 30+ enemies that each do 3000+ damage per second. That my friend, is really unrealistic.

Edited June 21, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
misspellings

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 1 hora, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 dijo:

I honestly would like his first two abilities to be more useful.

My repeated request is the following.

"Scaling" damage for his two.  (basically it does more damage the more guys you hit with it.) Doesn't need to be a lot just enough to kill level 50 enemies if I time it right.

An AOE freeze cone for his one.  So I freeze the guys in front of me when I use it instead of just one.  

There's also the Augment idea for his three. but I won't rehash that here. 

I have you point, in case it happens it would be quite good. Then, would be nice and all that but is it necessary? I think... not right now.

Have a good day sir.

[4thBro]

53 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

You need several things.

2 Normal Red Shards + 1 Tau Red Shard + mods for the 167% of Ability Strength for a full strip and 252% with the arcanes and aura charged  + 2 Normal Amber Shard for cast speed.

For energy: Dispensary + Equilibrium + Synth Fiber in any pet that can auto revive (its like 350 of energy for each cast) + Zenurik for emergencies.

For shield: Any secondarie with Augur Pact (It's not much but you are going to be spamming Avalanche and Globe and for the shield gatling it works just fine).

For healing: Molt Reconstruct (An Avalanche heals 600 of health).

I use all the time in SP and Work fine, you just need to use Avalanche. Your problem is basically that you want a Globe with 300k-500k+ health(random numbers after absorbing enemy damage) to last forever vs 30+ enemies that each do 3000+ damage per second. That my friend, is really unrealistic.

The thing is, this has about 79% armor reduction and 1k HP. Frankly... this is not enough survivability. You die with this.

I have no Umbra formas, but once I get one, I'll be doing 3x Umbra, Adaptation, Brief Respite gating, and also Arcane Blessing for a bigger HP buffer once it stacks.

 

I TELL YOU HHHWHAT, though............ Dispensary aint a bad idea, for Arcane Blessing... :O :O :O :O

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 11 minutos, 4thBro dijo:

The thing is, this has about 79% armor reduction and 1k HP. Frankly... this is not enough survivability. You die with this.

I have no Umbra formas, but once I get one, I'll be doing 3x Umbra, Adaptation, Brief Respite gating, and also Arcane Blessing for a bigger HP buffer once it stacks.

 

I TELL YOU HHHWHAT, though............ Dispensary aint a bad idea, for Arcane Blessing... :O :O :O :O

U can play with me and see, u dont need Arcane blessing. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

1 hour ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

You need several things.

2 Normal Red Shards + 1 Tau Red Shard + mods for the 167% of Ability Strength for a full strip and 252% with the arcanes and aura charged  + 2 Normal Amber Shard for cast speed.

For energy: Dispensary + Equilibrium + Synth Fiber in any pet that can auto revive (its like 350 of energy for each cast) + Zenurik for emergencies.

For shield: Any secondarie with Augur Pact (It's not much but you are going to be spamming Avalanche and Globe and for the shield gatling it works just fine).

For healing: Molt Reconstruct (An Avalanche heals 600 of health).

I use all the time in SP and Work fine, you just need to use Avalanche. Your problem is basically that you want a Globe with 300k-500k+ health(random numbers after absorbing enemy damage) to last forever vs 30+ enemies that each do 3000+ damage per second. That my friend, is really unrealistic.

No, I want it to work on base sp objective missions, which it does not. Your coping is kinda funny though. It's fine you like frost but when you argue with everyone who knows he needs work, you kinda lose your legs.

Edited June 21, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[Hypernaut1]

I think the game benefits from having a few frames that aren't easy mode. 

Personally, I don't like cheese frames. I like Frost where he's at. A frame that is more than capable in all areas if you give a little effort. 

[Felsagger]

51 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

No, I want it to work on base sp objective missions, which it does not. Your coping is kinda funny though. It's fine you like frost but when you argue with everyone who knows he needs work, you kinda lose your legs.

Well, that's because a small change in the kit can throw away all of his builds. I think Frost needs some work but he is not the priority now. Frost can carry his own legs for a while. There are other frames that needs a full review. 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 50 minutos, (PSN)Joylesstuna dijo:

No, I want it to work on base sp objective missions, which it does not.

SP objectives you said? Can you count the times I've died? I bet you can't. For the record, I don't have hands (I'm not good with my hands).








To the man who kills enemies of lv9999 and who believes that anyone who doesn't do the same is a poor and weak player... Good for you🤣(Whoever fits the hat should wear it).
Anyway... Have a nice day.

[0_The_F00l]

5 hours ago, 4thBro said:

Yes, please elaborate on this for me.

Because he has no innate damage reduction abilities, and stacking armor isn't even close to enough reduction on its own. The only defensive ability from the Helminth is Null Star, but if you have Range at 100+, you're going to constantly lose all your stacks. (Plus you need 300% Duration, lmao.)

You're going to be stuck spamming your Globe because they will die as soon as their invuln period is up, so at this point we're asking...

 

What Frost setup lets you:

1) Have over 95% damage reduction, and ideally over 800 HP? (Bonus: Have HP recovery of some sort, because health orbs are rarer than Condition Overload, and going operator every couple seconds is going to make you fall behind.)

2) Spam abilities every 4 seconds, even if there aren't enough enemies to drop many energy orbs?

3) Have enough Range to freeze all of the enemies shooting at you during Avalanche animation?

4) Have enough Strength (167+) to fully strip armor?

 

Brief Respite builds don't even work, because Eximuses don't get frozen, so they just keep hitting you and popping your shield gate during Avalanche cast. (You also need status immunity, because Heat and Slash will continuously pop your gating as well. It's easy enough to get status immunity from Helminth, but the point is that it's just another obstacle to be required to tackle, and there's just too many for Frost because his default kit doesn't tackle any obstacles on its own.)

 

And, really, that's the crux of the whole discussion. Frost's base kit doesn't tackle any of Warframe's obstacles on its own. So you're left trying to tackle ALL of them through customization, and it's too much weight for customization to carry.

 

You might think your Frost build is good because you can do Hydron just fine. Or because you can extract a Steel Path mission at 5 minutes. But it's not going to hold up under anything that actually applies pressure.

Quite an antagonistic viewpoint you have there with the very specific asks. 

While i do agree that it's a tough journey with the base kit , and some changes (as i already mentioned earlier) would be more beneficial , they are not necessary at the current moment thanks to the tools available at our disposal.

You also don't need all of the things you have mentioned to make frost good (though it is technically possible to do so).

It will need a heavy investment for sure.

I have managed to completed 40 minutes SP conjunction survival and stage 8 SP circuit with my frost , so i will say it is definitely not something that is only useful short term.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

44 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

SP objectives you said? Can you count the times I've died? I bet you can't. For the record, I don't have hands (I'm not good with my hands).








To the man who kills enemies of lv9999 and who believes that anyone who doesn't do the same is a poor and weak player... Good for you🤣(Whoever fits the hat should wear it).
Anyway... Have a nice day.

A. I'm not talking about you staying alive I'm talking about frosts bubble not breaking from enemies. Also you have a khora defending the objective that isn't showing anything relating to frost. But hey I'll try some more with him.

B. I don't do level cap not sure where you get that idea.

Edited June 21, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

Well, that's because a small change in the kit can throw away all of his builds. I think Frost needs some work but he is not the priority now. Frost can carry his own legs for a while. There are other frames that needs a full review. 

If a frame has one bad ability that's ok but that's not the case with frost. I also don't think he needs an entire rework and it's unfortunately obvious DE isn't focusing on fixing up frames.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 12 minutos, (PSN)Joylesstuna dijo:

A. I'm not talking about you staying alive I'm talking about frosts bubble not breaking from enemies. Also you have a khora defending the objective that isn't showing anything relating to frost. But hey I'll try some more with him.

Nah i just freeze 90% of enemies out of range of the Cage.
 

hace 12 minutos, (PSN)Joylesstuna dijo:

B. I don't do level cap not sure where you get that idea.

Whoever fits the hat should wear it.

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG

[Felsagger]

13 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

If a frame has one bad ability that's ok but that's not the case with frost. I also don't think he needs an entire rework and it's unfortunately obvious DE isn't focusing on fixing up frames.

That's 100 percent correct. They have their attention divided on many things. They've been tight lipped for a long while now on many things. Besides Frost needs some tuning but that's not that bad in my opinion. Not every frame should have home runs on the four abilities. A second look to Frost doesn't hurt either, imo. 

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

19 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Nah i just freeze 90% of enemies out of range of the Cage.
 

Whoever fits the hat should wear it.

 

You aren't even addressing what I'm talking about. Clearly you just cope and troll.

Edited June 21, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna
You know, if the hat fits

[Silligoose]

13 hours ago, ant99999 said:

Ok, that is a surprisingly reasonable response. Not counting in your attempt at insulting me again (which I suppose is your way of communicating), I expected worse.

You didn't point out anything I didn't already know. You didn't even address my initial reply all that much instead focusing solely on damage soaking mechanic. But, fine. I'll just pretend our back and forth never happened not to derail the thread.

Have a nice day.

 

On 2023-06-20 at 7:06 AM, ant99999 said:

Frost would be perfect if they made his spheres scalable with enemy levels. Out of all similar defensive abilities his globes are the only one which could be simply walked through, even though the ones with much harder CC like Strangledome are completely invulnerable.

So make it at least Mesmer Skin - like.

 

Edit: ok, perfect is a string world for this case honestly, cause Frost still got his 1 and 2 which need a full rework. But a buff to his 3 would make him much more comfortable to play without spending most of the time on upkeeping his spheres.

19 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Rejoice Tenno, for Frost's Snowglobe does indeed scale! Much like Iron Skin, there is a brief invulnerability period after casting, during which damage is absorbed and added to Snowglobe's durability 🙂

If you already knew it scales, why say what you did? Why say you wish it was scalable when it already is? I am genuinely curious. 

I did address your initial reply. You tried to assert it doesn't "actually" scale, I corrected you and this incorrect notion. I continued to state Mesmer Skin's mechanic is OP broken.

13 hours ago, Felsagger said:

For me frost was and WILL BE one of the best warframes in the game. 

Frost, Rhino, Excalibur, MAGGY and for survivalists Trinity. 

I still regard Frost as being very good and it is fun to whip out the older frames to test them again when coming across threads like these 🙂

11 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Why does it still get demolished in seconds in sp then? It isn't a great defense ability unfortunately on sp.

Poor timing and potentially improper tactical play. Much like Iron Skin, it can be extremely good, or seem almost worthless, depending on how it is used.

I still find it quite useful on SP.

[ant99999]

3 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

If you already knew it scales, why say what you did? Why say you wish it was scalable when it already is? I am genuinely curious. 

I really thought it was obvious, cause I don't consider it enough. That's an additive value which scales with the same enemy damage which then proceeds to decrease its health. It looses health just as easily as it gains it. That's what I replied to you the first time btw, don't know how that remained unclear.

The equation for Snow Globe consists of two parts, out of which one scales off of your mods and the other off of enemy damage. They don't interact. Which is why I told you it doesn't actually scale. My suggestion was for that part which you can mod to scale with enemy damage.

And in case someone brings up Mass Vitrify which is a similar ability, having a similar formula, that one additionally scales with enemy health and not enemy damage. And enemy health itself scales much faster than their damage.

[Silligoose]

7 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

I really thought it was obvious, cause I don't consider it enough. That's an additive value which scales with the same enemy damage which then proceeds to decrease its health. It looses health just as easily as it gains it. That's what I replied to you the first time btw, don't know how that remained unclear.

The equation for Snow Globe consists of two parts, out of which one scales off of your mods and the other off of enemy damage. They don't interact. Which is why I told you it doesn't actually scale. My suggestion was for that part which you can mod to scale with enemy damage.

And in case someone brings up Mass Vitrify which is a similar ability, having a similar formula, that one additionally scales with enemy health and not enemy damage. And enemy health itself scales much faster than their damage.

You know the best part of this reply of yours in which you try to demonstrate how knowledgeable you are? Once again you are wrong: enemy damage scales faster than enemy HP. I'm sure you are going to try and pretend you actually knew this as well, despite, once again, writing the opposite.

I find it equal parts amusing and sad that you read up on the mechanics, wrote them out in a reply to me all to show you "knew it all along".

You are full of it.