Radius weapons nerf needs to be rolled back please

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

4 minutes ago, Dairaion said:

thats insane, again at that point just make it a Archgun.

I'm pretty sure using the most powerful weapon in the game without having to worry about ammo at all warrants the use of an ability. 

[Dairaion]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

I'm pretty sure using the most powerful weapon in the game without having to worry about ammo at all warrants the use of an ability. 

I have a ammo total booster and im using Lavos, still not enough ammo, THERE IS NOT ENOUGH AMMO ON THE MAP TO FEED IT. Add to that it's not strong enough to kill alot of things in Steel Path and it's kinda a issue considering the work i went through to get it.

[Mazifet]

2 minutes ago, Dairaion said:

I have a ammo total booster and im using Lavos, still not enough ammo, THERE IS NOT ENOUGH AMMO ON THE MAP TO FEED IT. Add to that it's not strong enough to kill alot of things in Steel Path and it's kinda a issue considering the work i went through to get it.

sounds like a modding issue, i ran lavos with kuva zarr for an hour in steel path, shredded through enemies. can you show your build?

[Metalgearfox]

On 2023-06-24 at 6:41 PM, Dairaion said:

Kuva Zarr is unusable on Steel Path

Good.
Weapons that require you to aim should be better than weapons that hit the entire map lol.

[Dairaion]

15 minutes ago, Metalgearfox said:

Good.
Weapons that require you to aim should be better than weapons that hit the entire map lol.

A. it's not realistic

B. The AOE range is not as large as you think.

C. being forced to use assault rifles removes the whole point of even having weapon selection.

[Metalgearfox]

I hope they nerf it again, just to hammer home the point.

[gamingchair1121]

2 minutes ago, Dairaion said:

A. it's not realistic

B. The AOE range is not as large as you think.

C. being forced to use assault rifles removes the whole point of even having weapon selection.

A. balance (why should anyone bother with normal guns when aoe is the objectively best option?)

B. aoe ranges get as high as 10m, that's massive

C. you have other options like snipers, shotguns, and pistols as well, not just assault rifles, also somewhat conflicts with point A (if going for realism, why have selection in the first place when there's no reason to use the other non-aoe options?)

[(NSW)Greybones]

4 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

A. balance (why should anyone bother with normal guns when aoe is the objectively best option?)

People keep trotting out the word Balance like it’s something they want.

Like, if we pretend that we got a mission and loadout perfectly matched and balanced just by default, and we give the primary weapon one mod slot and the player the choice between Serration and a, I dunno, zoom mod, which would be chosen and why?

[Metalgearfox]

12 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

People keep trotting out the word Balance like it’s something they want.

You're right. I don't want balance.
I want the bramma and zarr spammers, especially those with neon energy colors, to suffer. 
They're worse than the neon pink ignis spammers of 2016.

The less happy they are, the better public lobbies are.

[gamingchair1121]

13 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Like, if we pretend that we got a mission and loadout perfectly matched and balanced just by default, and we give the primary weapon one mod slot and the player the choice between Serration and a, I dunno, zoom mod, which would be chosen and why?

that's like comparing a single target gun and a primer. just like the two mods you mentioned, single target weapons and primers do completely separate things. a primer enhances damage and a single target weapon is the one that does the damage, just as a damage increase enhances performance and zoom is qol.

[Tiltskillet]

30 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

People keep trotting out the word Balance like it’s something they want.

Like, if we pretend that we got a mission and loadout perfectly matched and balanced just by default, and we give the primary weapon one mod slot and the player the choice between Serration and a, I dunno, zoom mod, which would be chosen and why?

Because I genuinely like balance (to an extent, anyway) I'd like this game even more if those two choices weren't so unbalanced. :P

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

20 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

that's like comparing a single target gun and a primer. just like the two mods you mentioned, single target weapons and primers do completely separate things. a primer enhances damage and a single target weapon is the one that does the damage, just as a damage increase enhances performance and zoom is qol.

Sure, they do seperate things, and it seems to me pretty apparent why I’d equip one or the other; I equip the zoom because I’m fine with the balance but it’s a little hard to hit distant targets, and I equip the Serration when I don’t want to worry about accurate aiming, just spray and the gun will kill everything

7 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Because I genuinely like balance (to an extent, anyway) I'd like this game even more if those two choices weren't so unbalanced. :P

 

I haven’t even brought the concept of grind into the mix, so something’s telling me that you want to equip the Serration for a reason, and it’s fine to want what it provides

[Metalgearfox]

1 hour ago, Dairaion said:

A. it's not realistic

You know what, you're right.
Let's bring back self-damage from radius weapons to make it more realistic. 

[Dairaion]

1 hour ago, gamingchair1121 said:

A. balance (why should anyone bother with normal guns when aoe is the objectively best option?)

B. aoe ranges get as high as 10m, that's massive

C. you have other options like snipers, shotguns, and pistols as well, not just assault rifles, also somewhat conflicts with point A (if going for realism, why have selection in the first place when there's no reason to use the other non-aoe options?)

A. Balance is stupid, it's a PVE game and we're the space IRA.

B. 10m aint S#&$ Diriga taught me 75m is pretty garbage.

C. Snipers are bad because they don't do enough damage comparable to other weapons, if they had a chance to auto kill on headshot maybe, Shotguns are fine and act like kinda like shotguns but much like snipers are soft and have been slowly nerfed into being assault rifles with inherent multishot, cant remember the last time i saw someone use a tigris. if they cant convince people to use other weapons because they are fun then DE failed.

3 minutes ago, Metalgearfox said:

You know what, you're right.
Let's bring back self-damage from radius weapons to make it more realistic. 

why don't you just play alone? i play single player 90% of the time.

[Metalgearfox]

2 minutes ago, Dairaion said:

why don't you just play alone?

Oh don't worry, I do.
But the reason I do is to avoid people using the bramma, zarr, etc.

[trst]

1 hour ago, Dairaion said:

A. it's not realistic

B. The AOE range is not as large as you think.

C. being forced to use assault rifles removes the whole point of even having weapon selection.

You're playing a level based live service looter shooter. This is the last game you should be expecting "realism" out of.

The AOE is large enough to cover most of a room in the majority of tilesets. If you need more then slot P.Firestorm or use a grouping ability.

Being forced to use launchers removes the whole point even more. Which is exactly what their dominance has caused.

 

Also I find it very curious that you've continued to engage with this thread but have yet to actually provide the build you're using. It's been brought up like six times already and nobody else is having the issues you're having with the weapon. That is assuming you actually want your problem with the weapon resolved.

[Duality52]

49 minutes ago, trst said:

Also I find it very curious that you've continued to engage with this thread but have yet to actually provide the build you're using. It's been brought up like six times already and nobody else is having the issues you're having with the weapon. That is assuming you actually want your problem with the weapon resolved.

Curious too, but hints of it are found at their first post:

On 2023-06-24 at 3:41 PM, Dairaion said:

Kuva Zarr is unusable on Steel Path, even with ammo restores and magazine mods it lacks the killing potential

The fact that they're trying to use it as the only means of damage in Steel Path, while using both external (Ammo Restore on Steel Path) and internal (Magazine Wrap and potentially anything with ammo economy) help provides some proof of inadequate modding.

Funny thing is that the only change that somewhat lowered the overall damage were (Primed) Firestorm/Fulmination having their bonus radius reduced. Besides that and ammo, damage and everything else didn't change with the Kuva Zarr or Bramma.

52 minutes ago, Dairaion said:

A. Balance is stupid, it's a PVE game and we're the space IRA.

So, a meta. Balance is important, along with variety in a PvE.

52 minutes ago, Dairaion said:

B. 10m aint S#&$ Diriga taught me 75m is pretty garbage.

The Kuva Bramma by base has 8.3 meters. More balanced than that, the Morgha's airburst mortar is at 20 meters. Worse, that outranges the old Maiming Strike through walls. Coupled with our extreme mobility and how tilesets are designed, no one will can "outrange" us.

52 minutes ago, Dairaion said:

C. Snipers are bad because they don't do enough damage comparable to other weapons, if they had a chance to auto kill on headshot maybe, Shotguns are fine and act like kinda like shotguns but much like snipers are soft and have been slowly nerfed into being assault rifles with inherent multishot, cant remember the last time i saw someone use a tigris. if they cant convince people to use other weapons because they are fun then DE failed.

Majority of them are serviceable even in the Steel Path. There are well designed weapons like:

• Battacor
• Quellor
• Trumna, Sepulcrum
• Aeolak

Main reason is power creep. While I'll acknowledge that Incarnon Genesis Adapters are power creep for older weapons, they have succeeded where Rivens fail. More importantly again, variety.

Finally, please post the build of your Kuva Zarr and if possible what did you pair the Kuva Zarr with (frames, other weapons)? The gun itself is more than capable of soloing the whole Steel Path Star Chart, sans some Acolytes and bosses. 

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I haven’t even brought the concept of grind into the mix, so something’s telling me that you want to equip the Serration for a reason, and it’s fine to want what it provides

Yeah, we are not on the same page in this conversation at all.

[(NSW)Greybones]

13 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Yeah, we are not on the same page in this conversation at all.

The page where you feel forced to use Serration because it’s so good at what it does?

[gamingchair1121]

1 hour ago, Dairaion said:

A. Balance is stupid, it's a PVE game and we're the space IRA.

just because warframe is a pve game doesn't mean its exempt from balance. just look at all the complaints from the aoe meta, people spamming aoe, clearing rooms of enemies, doing all the work as the others watch, completely unable to do contribute anything to the mission. with enough lack of balance, this is to what every mission turns into, a walking simulator, where one person does 100% of the work as the others watch. multiplayer might as well just be removed at that point and it wouldn't make a difference at all. even the devs want balance, why else would they nerf the meta from time to time?

if you still insist that the game shouldn't have balance, give a valid reason that it shouldn't

^{and no, lack of player enemies is not a valid reason}

1 hour ago, Dairaion said:

B. 10m aint S#&$ Diriga taught me 75m is pretty garbage.

75m single target aoe (aoe weapons damage all enemies in the blast radius, single target only one enemies in a line, and that's only if you mod for punch through, otherwise its just the first enemy)

1 hour ago, Dairaion said:

C. Snipers are bad because they don't do enough damage

... have you even used a sniper before? (literally the highest damage per shot weapon type that just happens to have scaling damage on top of that)

[Dairaion]

1 hour ago, Metalgearfox said:

Oh don't worry, I do.
But the reason I do is to avoid people using the bramma, zarr, etc.

Neat, so the rollback wouldn't affect you, thanks for your vote.

[Dairaion]

16 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

just because warframe is a pve game doesn't mean its exempt from balance. just look at all the complaints from the aoe meta, people spamming aoe, clearing rooms of enemies, doing all the work as the others watch, completely unable to do contribute anything to the mission. with enough lack of balance, this is to what every mission turns into, a walking simulator, where one person does 100% of the work as the others watch. multiplayer might as well just be removed at that point and it wouldn't make a difference at all. even the devs want balance, why else would they nerf the meta from time to time?

if you still insist that the game shouldn't have balance, give a valid reason that it shouldn't

^{and no, lack of player enemies is not a valid reason}

75m single target aoe (aoe weapons damage all enemies in the blast radius, single target only one enemies in a line, and that's only if you mod for punch through, otherwise its just the first enemy)

... have you even used a sniper before? (literally the highest damage per shot weapon type that just happens to have scaling damage on top of that)

If people want to outkill rocket propelled grenade launchers they should do it in single player. They didn't nerf the meta they made it unplayable. all reasons are valid or none are. Kuva zarr has a 7m radius, not 10 not 75, 7. if it has to be so ammo inefficient it should at least have a larger range or do more damage.

i've used snipers, they are unfun. doesn't feel like im a cool sniper it feels like you're a guy musket hunting.

[gamingchair1121]

6 minutes ago, Dairaion said:

If people want to outkill rocket propelled grenade launchers they should do it in single player

you know, this is something I've always wondered, why don't they do that? probably around 90% of people use aoe for efficiency anyway, and the majority of missions are done easier solo, why bother with public missions? (of course there are fissures, where having others is beneficial to get better rewards, but besides that)

9 minutes ago, Dairaion said:

They didn't nerf the meta they made it unplayable

aoe is still usable, but its only exclusively usable in certain mission types like survival. in other mission types, if you run out of ammo, just pull out your secondary or melee for a few kills and you should be back at max ammo.

14 minutes ago, Dairaion said:

Kuva zarr has a 7m radius, not 10 not 75, 7

primed firestorm, 7 + 44% = 10.08m radius

15 minutes ago, Dairaion said:

if it has to be so ammo inefficient it should at least have a larger range or do more damage

larger range would only make aoe even more braindead than it already is. more damage is unnecessary since they already do enough damage. what actually needs to be done is disable status immunity (psf/poise) from preventing self knockdown, then revert all of the relevant ammo changes. because as it is, aoe is not only the most efficient way to do the majority of content, its also the most braindead way. its just so easy and efficient without a single drawback at all.

20 minutes ago, Dairaion said:

i've used snipers, they are unfun. doesn't feel like im a cool sniper it feels like you're a guy musket hunting.

have you tried playing in a more stealthy way like hiding at the corners of walls or maybe using an invis frame? arcane momentum pairs very well with snipers, try that as well. it can also depend on the mission type, I've noticed that snipers work very well in (most) defense missions.

[Skoomaseller]

50 minutes ago, Dairaion said:

They didn't nerf the meta they made it unplayable. 

alright brother stop cooking let's see the build

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 58 minutos, Dairaion dijo:

If people want to outkill rocket propelled grenade launchers they should do it in single player. They didn't nerf the meta they made it unplayable. all reasons are valid or none are. Kuva zarr has a 7m radius, not 10 not 75, 7. if it has to be so ammo inefficient it should at least have a larger range or do more damage.

i've used snipers, they are unfun. doesn't feel like im a cool sniper it feels like you're a guy musket hunting.

How difficult is it for you to show the construction of your zarr? You just say absurd things like warframe doesn't need balance because it's a pve game, sniper rifles don't do any damage, stop pacing around and show your build if you want someone to help you with your problem.