Radius weapons nerf needs to be rolled back please

[stormy505]

2 hours ago, Metalgearfox said:

Oh don't worry, I do.
But the reason I do is to avoid people using the bramma, zarr, etc.

I mean, you don't really see bramma or zarr anymore cause they're way more limited in where and how they can be used.

They're pretty niche now since they require specific setups and very high enemy density.

And why would you use them over the more braindead option of incarnon aoe weapons.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

12 hours ago, Dairaion said:

I have a ammo total booster and im using Lavos, still not enough ammo, THERE IS NOT ENOUGH AMMO ON THE MAP TO FEED IT. Add to that it's not strong enough to kill alot of things in Steel Path and it's kinda a issue considering the work i went through to get it.

Bro if you can't kill stuff in 1-2 shots then that's probably the reason why you have no ammo on a weapon that already has a limited ammo supply.

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 2023-06-24 at 3:41 PM, Dairaion said:

Kuva Zarr is unusable on Steel Path, even with ammo restores and magazine mods it lacks the killing potential to affect earth prime enemies.

This is what I initially thought too, but I was wrong; the truth is that the weapon still works great, I just had to adjust the way I used it since it no longer had infinite ammo.  In my experience, the Kuva Zarr works great in the Steel Path as long as you are thoughtful about your shots.  Be selective about the shots you take and aim them towards clumps of enemies, and you'll likely never run out of ammo.  You don't even need Carrier or Ammo Restores or Ammo mods.

[(PSN)Unstar]

17 hours ago, Dairaion said:

I have a ammo total booster

It sounds like this is probably part of your problem; having a higher ammo capacity is in no way a long-term solution to ammo sustainability.  If you're using a mod like Ammo Drum, you're wasting a meaningful slot in your build that could be leveraged against the problems you're facing.

And no disrespect, it sounds like the rest of your build could also use some work.  In case it helps, here's the build I've been using, which I've found to be very effective in Steel Path without having any ammo difficulties:

• Radiation progenitor bonus
• Amalgam Serration (+damage)
• Galvanized Chamber (+multishot)
• Critical Delay (+crit chance, -fire rate)
• Vital Sense (+crit damage)
• Primed Cryo Rounds (+cold)
• Malignant Force (+status chance, +toxin [becomes viral])
• Thermite Rounds (+status chance, +heat)
• Hunter Munitions (+chance of Slash proc on crit)
• Cautious Shot* (-AoE stagger)
• Primary Merciless**

*Replace this with an Ammo Mutation mod for even more sustainability

**For some reason my actual build was using Primary Dexterity despite only attacking with the Zarr and it was performing well, so with Merciless this build should be even better.

[Dairaion]

15 hours ago, gamingchair1121 said:

you know, this is something I've always wondered, why don't they do that? probably around 90% of people use aoe for efficiency anyway, and the majority of missions are done easier solo, why bother with public missions? (of course there are fissures, where having others is beneficial to get better rewards, but besides that)

aoe is still usable, but its only exclusively usable in certain mission types like survival. in other mission types, if you run out of ammo, just pull out your secondary or melee for a few kills and you should be back at max ammo.

primed firestorm, 7 + 44% = 10.08m radius

larger range would only make aoe even more braindead than it already is. more damage is unnecessary since they already do enough damage. what actually needs to be done is disable status immunity (psf/poise) from preventing self knockdown, then revert all of the relevant ammo changes. because as it is, aoe is not only the most efficient way to do the majority of content, its also the most braindead way. its just so easy and efficient without a single drawback at all.

have you tried playing in a more stealthy way like hiding at the corners of walls or maybe using an invis frame? arcane momentum pairs very well with snipers, try that as well. it can also depend on the mission type, I've noticed that snipers work very well in (most) defense missions.

I use explosions because they're big and bright and i'd rather spend one second expending 15lbs of gunpowder than 2 minutes.

I don't use primed firestorm because either A. enemies die in one hit which is preferrable considering short ammo supply and B. a larger radius doesn't improve killing effeciency. it's sad because i have a maxed primed firestorm and honestly i could use that endo on my railjack.

being stealthy is kind of a crapshoot in warframe, it's doable but it doesn't feel exciting and the game doesn't give me the "Stealth Assassin" vibes because of how primitive the system is itself. Additionally the game doesn't reward you for it and outside of Ivara i hate the stealth frames. i have a loki that i only use because ivara cant run while invisible even though it drains her energy constantly. like wtf am i getting for it, double drops? i've played this game for like half a decade even the bosses don't drop good loot for me anymore.

[Dairaion]

14 hours ago, stormy505 said:

I mean, you don't really see bramma or zarr anymore cause they're way more limited in where and how they can be used.

They're pretty niche now since they require specific setups and very high enemy density.

And why would you use them over the more braindead option of incarnon aoe weapons.

Woah buddy, endgame glowing rocket launchers fueled by the tortured souls of undead child slaves one hit killing opponents is bad but a laser rifle that makes a nuclear explosion is fair game because it's fueled by imagination and it's not like you cant be carried to get it.

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

They need to bring self-damage back ong. Launchers are niche/emergency-use-only in most shooters for a good darn reason, it's not something you're meant to use 24/7. 

DE even buffed gun switching speed to be appropriately and ludicrously fast last year. There is absolutely no excuse for you to not be using a normal secondary to kill odd mooks and switch to Zarr when you see a densely packed group other than Warframe coddling you to the point where you think launchers should be no different from assault rifles in ammo economy and usage. Even still, with some modding and Helminth changes you can trivialize that ammo economy!!! 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

On 2023-06-24 at 5:41 PM, Dairaion said:

Kuva Zarr is unusable on Steel Path, even with ammo restores and magazine mods it lacks the killing potential to affect earth prime enemies. at this point just make them heavy weapons that need to be summoned in.

Have you tried using the other 2 weapons you have on your character or i know this be a incredible stretch, using different guns

[Corvid]

16 hours ago, Dairaion said:

and B. a larger radius doesn't improve killing effeciency.

Except it does, by allowing a single shot a higher chance of damaging more targets. There's a reason why Primed Firestorm had its effect reduced when the AOE changes were made.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Corvid

[crash_core]

I really wish they would buff normal assault rifles like the Baza. They really arent usable without some help.
How does the blacklist/blocklist work in Warframe, cause I block everyone using Zarr and Bramma.

[Dairaion]

On 2023-06-27 at 7:02 AM, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Have you tried using the other 2 weapons you have on your character or i know this be a incredible stretch, using different guns

No i want my rocket launcher to launch rockets and if i use secondaries i'll just run out of ammo for that too.

[Grommile]

On 2023-06-27 at 1:27 AM, BansheeAndZephyrMarried said:

They need to bring self-damage back ong.

Spoken like someone who never runs with pubbies.

[Metalgearfox]

On 2023-06-26 at 8:27 PM, BansheeAndZephyrMarried said:

They need to bring self-damage back ong.

Yesss.... Yesssssssss

[Skoomaseller]

still haven't shown build btw

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

Counter argument: buff single target weapons with crit chance so they can get higher damage and less need to waste mod space doing so [it would give space for punch through, fire rate, reload. You know, the other thousand mods that no one uses because damage trumps all]

 

Reason~ radial weapons are usually op because its (Direct + Radial) 2 x [Multishot 2~3 x Crit chance] = Crit damage x Fire rate x Element mods = The direct enemy taking full damage + Surrounding enemies taking atleast half of full damage x Status effect bonus

Single target misses out on covered example and most single targets waste space trying to get crit chance or damage

 

Now the reason for single target weapons getting hyper crits easily is because they are direct only and would make better sense to use against armored or shield enemies and allows for punch through space instead of desperate for damage thus crit chance

 

I know this wouldn't fix S#&$, but it would add attention to detail and gameplay value if there was proper gameplay

The game is messy and all but this would give DE a reason for overguard and damage attenuation to exist since they are usually singular targets without having to change enemy stats. Just a tweak to crit damage and an upscale of single target crit chance

(the crit chance mods would have to be additive instead of multiplicative because 50, 70, 90, 130 bit high to multiply snd a plus 70 crit chance wouldn't hurt right?)

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

guess i murdered this thread