Primed stretch alternative

[Apocalypse94]

Hello everyone,

I am probably not alone when i say it is super fun to go max range on a nuke warframe.

I really want a primed streetch simply because it would be super fun to even further increase the nuke potential.

however i have seen concerns in other forum posts that the power creep is already massive in warframe and a primed streetch would just add to that.

here is my solution: just make it an umbral mod that has a 16-slot cost and only really shines if you equip the other umbral mods.

this would require a major investement if you really wanna go for max range since you would almost certainly need 2 umbral forma to make it work.

I really feel like this is a great solution that would provide a great power up for great investement.

would love to hear ya'lls opinion this this.

Cheers!

Edited July 9, 2023 by Apocalypse94

[Slayer-.]

It'd be nice but the posts like yours wanting bigger nuke are probably the reason why we don't have one. 

Plus another big problem is builds will have trouble fitting if you're using the Umbra mods as well, throw in the mix of Archon and DE would need to give us two more slots to Forma. 

[0_The_F00l]

I don't think there can be a  addition to umbral mods , they are already a set of 3, and their unique effect is how they increase each other's effects.

Might be a completely new set though where range itself is the bonus.

 

[Apocalypse94]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Slayer-.:

It'd be nice but the posts like yours wanting bigger nuke are probably the reason why we don't have one. 

Plus another big problem is builds will have trouble fitting if you're using the Umbra mods as well, throw in the mix of Archon and DE would need to give us two more slots to Forma. 

i certainly disagree.

why would you have to be able to fit in ALL the standart mods?

the exact point of this is not to trivialy increase player power(add mods slots --> power creep)

the points having to sacrifice other stats if you want more of another stat thus creating more voriety with builds.

nothing stops you from not building it if you like keeping the mods you'd have to sacrifice in order to build more range.

[Tiltskillet]

Personally  I still think we have too much modded range already.

But, if we were to get more range, it's a better idea than Primed Stretch.  Assuming Umbral starts at 45 and the set multipliers cap out at 3.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Tiltskillet

[Mieo_Mio]

3 hours ago, Apocalypse94 said:

Hello everyone,

I am probably "alone" when i say it is super fun to go max range on a nuke warframe.

Yes. Zapping fun away from other players is awesome.

[TheGuyver]

People have been beating this dead horse with stretch and streamline for nearly 9 years since baro first started bringing primed mods in 2014.

It will never happen.

[(PSN)Unstar]

Personally I think the game would suffer if we received any additional mods that increase range, so I wouldn't want something like this regardless.

But if we had to choose between Prime Stretch and Umbral Stretch, I think Primed Stretch would be the better choice, because making it an Umbral mod would mean that frames/builds already using Umbral mods would have greater access to this increased range, and that seems like an undesirable lack of balance.

But regardless, we have so much range already that the idea of more seems excessive.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

Archon Stretch could be buffed to 50%

[Apocalypse94]

vor einer Stunde schrieb (PSN)Unstar:

Personally I think the game would suffer if we received any additional mods that increase range, so I wouldn't want something like this regardless.

But if we had to choose between Prime Stretch and Umbral Stretch, I think Primed Stretch would be the better choice, because making it an Umbral mod would mean that frames/builds already using Umbral mods would have greater access to this increased range, and that seems like an undesirable lack of balance.

But regardless, we have so much range already that the idea of more seems excessive.

would you care to explain why? I am generally curious why so many people have this opinion.

whats wrong with having some dumb fun creating 300+ range builds?

its not like u can't oneshot the everything with basically everything already.

 

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Apocalypse94

[Veridian]

The archon mods kind of put the nail in the proverbial coffin.

Continuity equals it's prime counterpart, intensify doubles with its effect, but stretch remained exactly as it is.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Prime stretch is whatever. I’m neutral about it.

What I find particularly interesting and almost shocking though is the fact that some players in this thread are saying that there’s such a thing as too much excess. Last I checked, “Warframe” and “Excessive amounts of power” have been in the same sentence for years; it’s the thing that players chase. Excessive amounts of everything. Sometimes self-destructively so

I was a little surprised to hear a few players saying as much when Archon Shards came out, and now it’s cropped up again. Weird

Edited July 10, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[Slayer-.]

15 hours ago, Apocalypse94 said:

i certainly disagree.

why would you have to be able to fit in ALL the standart mods?

the exact point of this is not to trivialy increase player power(add mods slots --> power creep)

the points having to sacrifice other stats if you want more of another stat thus creating more voriety with builds.

nothing stops you from not building it if you like keeping the mods you'd have to sacrifice in order to build more range.

Players will always then want to fit them all in, it's human nature simple as that.

[Apocalypse94]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Slayer-.:

Players will always then want to fit them all in, it's human nature simple as that.

well yeah true but that doesn't mean it is necessary in the context off adding in some kind of primed stretch version.

Creating Tradeoffs is exacly what prevents more power creep.

And it just makes the game more interesting in my opinion

[Apocalypse94]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Veridian:

The archon mods kind of put the nail in the proverbial coffin.

Continuity equals it's prime counterpart, intensify doubles with its effect, but stretch remained exactly as it is.

unfortunatly i think this is true. if they were ever gonna do it it would have been with the archcon variants.

[(PSN)Unstar]

22 hours ago, Apocalypse94 said:

would you care to explain why? I am generally curious why so many people have this opinion.

whats wrong with having some dumb fun creating 300+ range builds?

In short, some semblance of balance is healthy for the game, and this comes in two forms:

1. Balance between the player and the challenges the game throws at them (generally enemies)
   • Why?  Because generally speaking, players who are unchallenged aren't being engaged and thus tend to get bored.
2. Balance between the tools players have to address challenges.
   • Why?  Because there's little point in having a game full of hundreds of tools if one category clearly outshines all the rest.  This would be true for even a single-player game, but it's even more true for a multiplayer game.  The more AoE's are evaporating the map, the less the members in your squad who like shooting things in the head get to do that.

 

22 hours ago, Apocalypse94 said:

its not like u can't oneshot the everything with basically everything already.

With respect, I'm guessing you don't realize that this is a good argument for nerfing existing ranged mods?  If you think there's already a problem, then the solution isn't to lean in and make that problem even worse.

 

One other interesting thing to keep in mind: Range is the only stat in Warframe where increasing it results in multiplicative returns rather than additive returns.  If you triple your Strength, you get 3x the effect, but if you triple your Range, your AoE's now cover 9x the area (because πr²).  With that kind of non-linear growth, things can get out of hand really fast, which is why this is an important stat for DE to be extra protective of.

[Apocalypse94]

Am 10.7.2023 um 19:11 schrieb (PSN)Unstar:

 

With respect, I'm guessing you don't realize that this is a good argument for nerfing existing ranged mods?  If you think there's already a problem, then the solution isn't to lean in and make that problem even worse.

The thing is that i don't really think it is a problem to begin with.

 

Am 10.7.2023 um 19:11 schrieb (PSN)Unstar:

In short, some semblance of balance is healthy for the game, and this comes in two forms:

1. Balance between the player and the challenges the game throws at them (generally enemies)
   • Why?  Because generally speaking, players who are unchallenged aren't being engaged and thus tend to get bored.
2. Balance between the tools players have to address challenges.
   • Why?  Because there's little point in having a game full of hundreds of tools if one category clearly outshines all the rest.  This would be true for even a single-player game, but it's even more true for a multiplayer game.  The more AoE's are evaporating the map, the less the members in your squad who like shooting things in the head get to do that.

Fair enough

Am 10.7.2023 um 19:11 schrieb (PSN)Unstar:

One other interesting thing to keep in mind: Range is the only stat in Warframe where increasing it results in multiplicative returns rather than additive returns.  If you triple your Strength, you get 3x the effect, but if you triple your Range, your AoE's now cover 9x the area (because πr²).  With that kind of non-linear growth, things can get out of hand really fast, which is why this is an important stat for DE to be extra protective of.

yeah i have thougt of that aswell wich is why i wanted even more lol.

you do make some good arguments. though do you really think it is that big off a problem you have to invest so much to make it work? 2 umbra forma on one frame is an insane investement.

at that point you are an advanced player anyways and you are mostly playing to try out some random fun stuff. or am I wrong?

[(PSN)Unstar]

5 hours ago, Apocalypse94 said:

you do make some good arguments. though do you really think it is that big off a problem you have to invest so much to make it work? 2 umbra forma on one frame is an insane investement.

at that point you are an advanced player anyways and you are mostly playing to try out some random fun stuff. or am I wrong?

I would just say that I don't think that making large investments* or being a late-game player supersede the value of a healthy balance.

 

*As an aside, 2 Umbral Forma is indeed an investment, but it's far from "insane".  Players can very easily get 2 Umbral Forma in the space of 2 months or less (mostly by just waiting); I don't think there's a threshold at which player investment should be allowed to supersede balance, but if there were, it seems to me like it would need to require way more than that.

[(PSN)zedlanik]

i can only imagine how would grineer react to this tennoo no nuke ,it would be good but than you wouldn't have to make adjustment's to moding warframe range and strength while taking negative on other seems still good