DE, can we stop with crazy difficult content PLEASE

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 2023-08-05 at 6:08 AM, Ivi104 said:

My hand-eye coordination sucks, and my hand movements are imprecise and clunky. I do not appreciate the rise in difficulty. Previous updates were fun and engaging without cranking up the difficulty, but recently they abandoned that approach and started pumping out update after update after update that takes our power away and puts a normal kid against a world-ending invulnerable boss.

My core problem is execution, I understand what I have to do to beat Nihil or Archons or how to fight in Duviri, but I physically struggle to do it. My hands are shaking when I'm tense (and I'm certainly tense when playing stealth sections or during difficult combat), my reaction speed is about 3 seconds and my hands start to hurt when I have to click and press a bunch of stuff all at once.

I can definitely relate to your body just not being able to do something.  Which is part of why I love Warframe, because it just offers so many different ways to be overpowered and win in spite of that.  I wish I had any advice to help with Nihil, but since there's almost nothing you can do to "gear up" for that fight, I've got nothing.  However, you absolutely can overgear for Archons and Duviri so that they become trivial, even with the condition you've described!

 

Duviri

In Duviri combat, literally all I do is lock-on to an enemy, run up to it, and repeatedly do heavy melee attacks until it dies.  When I do this, I win, and then I repeat the process.  I do not need to use any of my abilities (which would presumably make this process even more efficient).  I assume this works because of two gearing factors:

• I have all of the Intrinsics.  Though to maximize your combat ability for this strategy, you only need Endurance 9, Combat 9, and Opportunity 3.  And every step along the way will help make it more possible.
• The weapon I'm using is the Syam, the one-handed Nikana.  Does this actually make an important difference?  I don't know.  But it's what I use, so I thought it worthwhile to mention.

Now, I'm sure you don't yet have all of these Intrinsics.  If you don't, that's okay: you can accumulate them without needing to do any combat!  Just hop into a public The Duviri Experience and do non-combat side activities, such as finding hidden chests and herding goats.  Every side activity you complete will earn you Intrinsics, and every side activity that your fellow Tenno complete will also earn you Intrinsics.  And what's more is that each of these activities will earn you decrees, which means that as long as you have the Intrinsics for Combat 1 and Endurance 1, it won't be long before you're an overpowered death machine for the rest of that run.  So after you've got a bit of momentum in that way, you can just sweep the floor with any combat side activities you find.  It's a great way to farm Intrinsics, and in my personal opinion it's probably one of the most fun things I've ever done in all of Warframe, because you build up all of this momentum and just become a stupidly powerful wrecking ball.

 

Archons

Since you can use most of your favorite Warframe tools, you can overgear Archons and make them a piece of cake. 

For the Warframe, get yourself a Baruuk Prime.  Full Umbral Build with Adaptation.  Arcane Grace.  Pack on some additional Power Strength to give yourself a surplus of floating defense knives.  Congratulations, you are now unkillable in an Archon Hunt, especially if you start the match by using Lull to max out your Fist Meter for the additional defense.  This means that while you are fighting Archons, you don't need to care at all about trying to stay alive, because you simply will be.

For your primary, there aren't many weapons that work great on the Archons, and most of them are Incarnons.  Personally, I've found great results with the Phenmor when it's built with its level 4 upgrade that gives +2000% damage.  Weapons like these effectively bypass the Archons' defensive attenuation, meaning your gun will still feel like it's doing damage to them instead of doing next to nothing.  It'll kill pretty quickly!

I like to bring a secondary that makes Boreal's Aerolysts less of a pain.  For me, that's the Catchmoon , as its fat projectile pierces through multiple Aeroylst belt canisters with every shot; I just walk right up to them and blast away at their tummies.  I also have it set with the arcane that makes it a recharging weapon so it never runs out of ammo.

Finally, I am always equipped with a two-handed Nikana because of my arthritis.  This is great for killing everything that's not the Archon and the Aerolysts and doesn't require aiming.  I like this weapon because it maximizes damage-per-button-press, thus minimizing the amount of buttons I need to press to kill enemies.  I use a heavy attack build where the only button you need to press is heavy attack to delete anything you can hit:

• Wise Razor (the best and indeed only choice for a stance)
• Primed Reach (+range)
• Killing Blow (+Heavy Attack damage, +Heavy Attack speed)
• Corrupt Charge (+increases starting combo, meaning more damage on Heavy Attacks)
• Sacrificial Pressure (+damage)
• Sacrificial Steel (+crit chance, doubled for Heavy Attacks)
• Amalgam Organ Shatter (+crit damage, +Heavy Attack speed)
• Gladiator Might (+crit damage)
• Spoiled Strike (+damage, -attack speed)

You don't need that exact build, as there are lots of ways to adjust this and still have it do the same thing.

But anyway, if you enter the Archon Hunt with that setup, you will be overgeared for Archons.  Thankfully they don't move too much, so hopefully aiming won't be much of a problem.

 

I hope any of this helps, but if it's failing to account for any specific needs you have, let me know!  I'd really love to help my fellow disabled players find ways to enjoy and overcome the game!

Edited August 6, 2023 by (PSN)Unstar
typo correction

[GeorgeFernell]

21 hours ago, Ivi104 said:

PLEASE STOP making crazy difficult content, gimme back my ninja and stop forcing me into content that is made difficult for the sake of being difficult.

You rage on the fight because you cant beat it.
I rage on the fight because its badly designed and terribly programmed.
We are not the same.

Seriously though, the fact that they have the audacity to put this fight in as "Anniversary content" is beyond me.
Its not "Difficult", its just broken and badly designed.
An intern could fix it in 5 minutes by just scaling triangles up like 50% so they match the dodge roll length.

[Els236]

Il y a 4 heures, GeorgeFernell a dit :

You rage on the fight because you cant beat it.
I rage on the fight because its badly designed and terribly programmed.
We are not the same.

Seriously though, the fact that they have the audacity to put this fight in as "Anniversary content" is beyond me.
Its not "Difficult", its just broken and badly designed.
An intern could fix it in 5 minutes by just scaling triangles up like 50% so they match the dodge roll length.

 

Nihil is pure unadulterated garbage, for sure.

The shards missing the platforms all the time and god forbid you have more than 1/3rd of the platforms destroyed, because the fight will last an hour, only for you to die while he needs 1 hit left. 

[Raarsi]

On 2023-08-04 at 6:58 PM, Metalgearfox said:

Just like modern raid mechanics in wow. 1 mistake = wipe lol.

And that's why raid participation in that game has been tanking for years now. 

Also like Nihil, their raids are poorly designed.  The only difference is that as godawful a gameplay experience Nihil is, at least I don't need third-party addons to run it.

[AlucardNoir]

12 hours ago, Corvid said:

Warframe's core development ethos from day one has been experimentation. If you can't handle that, then this might not be the game for you.

Unless, of course, you wish to imply that the entire dev team should be fired as well, since even what you would consider Warframe's "core gameplay" is a massive departure from how the game originally played.

I remember a Brozime interview with Pablo where they discussed among other things the Josh Strife Hays video on Warframe and where Pablo said the over the course of the video the thing the most wanted from Josh has for him to start using his abilities - a thing that he didn't really do. Then you look at the Nihil fight and Duviri's open world and realize that an entire segment of the people behind Warframe want to "experiment" with a gameplay loop completely lacking abilities. Even new war at least gave it's characters something similar to abilities even if the gameplay wasn't Warframe like.

Even devs like Pablo know what the core gameplay of Warframe is. The problem is that when you've done the same thing for 10 years... well, you know, fun becomes relative. As for me not liking the last update. Who told you that? I've been one of the staunches supporters of Duviri's Circuit. It's probably one of the single best updates the game has ever had. It's the core essence of Warframe boiled down to one endless mission filled with diversity. The open world is just like every other open world in warframe, a failure. But the circuit is probably the single greatest idea DE has had in a long time. In fact it might be too good since it's both a boon to older underpowered weapons and a cheaper, significantly more engaging way to farm frames new players might not have. But hey, if you still disagree with me on that please remember what DE themselves said with echoes of Duviri: 

Quote

• Removed the Duviri Starting Path from the New Player Experience. Now, all new Tenno will start with the Vor's Prize Quest, and the Duviri Paradox will be available to them after its completion. 
•  
  • After months of review of player behavior, we are making this change to give all new players an accurate representation of core Warframe gameplay before we introduce them to the magic of Duviri.  Offering two Starting Paths for new players was an experiment -- and not one we regret -- but a key part of experimentation is continued iteration after the fact to ensure the best player experience possible. Tenno who already chose the Drifter Path should not be affected!

 Even DE knows what the core gameplay loop of their game is. Yeah, they experiment, but they're not dumb enough not to know why people stick around in the first place. "Ninja's play for free" isn't advertising Kahl mission any more that it's advertising New War or Duviri. Nihil's fight might - technically - count because of the parkour... technically.

[PollexMessier]

On 2023-08-04 at 5:02 PM, (PSN)Dragoon790 said:

Thanks for the advice. His teleporting is an issue when I'm trying to track the large crystals and figure out the aiming and I lose track of where he is until he hits me.

His teleport is telegraphed with a loud sound so as long as you can hear and have your volume up, just knowing that he teleported is easy enough. Whenever he teleports out of the center, he's ether right next to the platform you're standing on about to swing his sword at you, or on the opposite side of the arena about to fire shards at you (only on his 3rd health bar). On his first two bars he only teleports back to the center when he's on the outside. So you can have a pretty good awareness of where he is without even really looking at him. On this third phase he seems to avoid the center but he will go in it sometimes. Just jump to another platform whenever you notice him teleport so you'll be out of range of his sword if he was going to swing it, and you'll have time to circle your camera around to find him. When he fires shards he always fires at least two so there's always a window of opportunity to hit him with the first shard as he's firing the second one before he can teleport again.

[rodrigerzZ]

Am 4.8.2023 um 22:56 schrieb Ivi104:

I log in, and I find a Recall ten-zero quest mission, I open it up, and it throws me into Nihil's arena... Are you f-ing kidding me??? I wasn't able to beat him the first time around, god knows I tried and tried, and now I tried it again, and ... drum-roll please - I wasn't able to do it.

Please spare a thought to disabled people when you create content - I do not have the reflexes nor the motor control to pull this off. Not everyone enjoys or is able to beat this content.

The Nihil fight is pure pain, pure frustration, pure misery. Why would you want to put your players through that - not once, but TWICE???

Another, more recent example are the enemies of the Duviri landscape. OH MY GOD, whoever designed those should be fired on the spot. Fighting them is INSANELY HARD. They hit like a truck, they are hard to aim at, they get in your face and rush you, they need 20 bullets to kill. Just WTF...

I play Warframe to be an overpowered ninja. I enjoy being an overpowered ninja, I enjoy shredding rooms of enemies, jumping 20 meters high, moving lightning-fast. I love that and that is why I play.

The recent content updates (Nihil, New War drifter gameplay, ARCHONS 🤬, recurring Kahl missions, Duviri) all seem to be made specifically so we cannot enjoy the power fantasy we are here for.

You are ruining my experience of the game, and after trying it out, I can confidently say I will never come back to that content. EVER. Because it's unbeatable for me, and that makes it the opposite of fun.

PLEASE STOP making crazy difficult content, gimme back my ninja and stop forcing me into content that is made difficult for the sake of being difficult.

Thank you,

a very concerned player

it was always like that. nothing works without youtube and wiki. it's either not AT ALL clear what the hell to do, or it's extremely hard and "kinda" doable with certain warframe/mods etc.

do you know old arcade games? there you knew immediately what to do and there were certain rules. but here??????????? should one be clairvoyant or what?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

52 minutes ago, rodrigerzZ said:

it was always like that. nothing works without youtube and wiki. it's either not AT ALL clear what the hell to do, or it's extremely hard and "kinda" doable with certain warframe/mods etc.

do you know old arcade games? there you knew immediately what to do and there were certain rules. but here??????????? should one be clairvoyant or what?

Nice embellishment. We're not in the 80s. Games had strategy guides as early as the 90s and early 2000s. 

You had to actually leave your house and go buy them, then read them. Took much more time than going to a wiki and reading pertinent information for 3 minutes.

[Metalgearfox]

1 hour ago, rodrigerzZ said:

should one be clairvoyant or what?

Lol...

You just gave me flashbacks to the bridge on 3rd level of castlevania. Jumped across the gap? Oh, fireball from the edge of the screen or a newly spawned medusa head is going to hit where you are going to land. There goes a life and your 3 stack and your whip power ups. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Metalgearfox

[AlucardNoir]

57 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Nice embellishment. We're not in the 80s. Games had strategy guides as early as the 90s and early 2000s. 

You had to actually leave your house and go buy them, then read them. Took much more time than going to a wiki and reading pertinent information for 3 minutes.

Yeah, they did, because that meant yet another thing to sell to the end consumer. They even had phone lines you could call to ask for help... for a "nominal" fee of course. They also had lives, because many devs came out of arcades where you wanted the player to die as many times as possible so they'd feed the machine another coin or token.

[Ivi104]

On 2023-08-05 at 8:01 PM, (PSN)Unstar said:

I can definitely relate to your body just not being able to do something.  Which is part of why I love Warframe, because it just offers so many different ways to be overpowered and win in spite of that.  I wish I had any advice to help with Nihil, but since there's almost nothing you can do to "gear up" for that fight, I've got nothing.  However, you absolutely can overgear for Archons and Duviri so that they become trivial, even with the condition you've described!

 

Duviri

In Duviri combat, literally all I do is lock-on to an enemy, run up to it, and repeatedly do heavy melee attacks until it dies.  When I do this, I win, and then I repeat the process.  I do not need to use any of my abilities (which would presumably make this process even more efficient).  I assume this works because of two gearing factors:

• I have all of the Intrinsics.  Though to maximize your combat ability for this strategy, you only need Endurance 9, Combat 9, and Opportunity 3.  And every step along the way will help make it more possible.
• The weapon I'm using is the Syam, the one-handed Nikana.  Does this actually make an important difference?  I don't know.  But it's what I use, so I thought it worthwhile to mention.

Now, I'm sure you don't yet have all of these Intrinsics.  If you don't, that's okay: you can accumulate them without needing to do any combat!  Just hop into a public The Duviri Experience and do non-combat side activities, such as finding hidden chests and herding goats.  Every side activity you complete will earn you Intrinsics, and every side activity that your fellow Tenno complete will also earn you Intrinsics.  And what's more is that each of these activities will earn you decrees, which means that as long as you have the Intrinsics for Combat 1 and Endurance 1, it won't be long before you're an overpowered death machine for the rest of that run.  So after you've got a bit of momentum in that way, you can just sweep the floor with any combat side activities you find.  It's a great way to farm Intrinsics, and in my personal opinion it's probably one of the most fun things I've ever done in all of Warframe, because you build up all of this momentum and just become a stupidly powerful wrecking ball.

 

Archons

Since you can use most of your favorite Warframe tools, you can overgear Archons and make them a piece of cake. 

For the Warframe, get yourself a Baruuk Prime.  Full Umbral Build with Adaptation.  Arcane Grace.  Pack on some additional Power Strength to give yourself a surplus of floating defense knives.  Congratulations, you are now unkillable in an Archon Hunt, especially if you start the match by using Lull to max out your Fist Meter for the additional defense.  This means that while you are fighting Archons, you don't need to care at all about trying to stay alive, because you simply will be.

For your primary, there aren't many weapons that work great on the Archons, and most of them are Incarnons.  Personally, I've found great results with the Phenmor when it's built with its level 4 upgrade that gives +2000% damage.  Weapons like these effectively bypass the Archons' defensive attenuation, meaning your gun will still feel like it's doing damage to them instead of doing next to nothing.  It'll kill pretty quickly!

I like to bring a secondary that makes Boreal's Aerolysts less of a pain.  For me, that's the Catchmoon , as its fat projectile pierces through multiple Aeroylst belt canisters with every shot; I just walk right up to them and blast away at their tummies.  I also have it set with the arcane that makes it a recharging weapon so it never runs out of ammo.

Finally, I am always equipped with a two-handed Nikana because of my arthritis.  This is great for killing everything that's not the Archon and the Aerolysts and doesn't require aiming.  I like this weapon because it maximizes damage-per-button-press, thus minimizing the amount of buttons I need to press to kill enemies.  I use a heavy attack build where the only button you need to press is heavy attack to delete anything you can hit:

• Wise Razor (the best and indeed only choice for a stance)
• Primed Reach (+range)
• Killing Blow (+Heavy Attack damage, +Heavy Attack speed)
• Corrupt Charge (+increases starting combo, meaning more damage on Heavy Attacks)
• Sacrificial Pressure (+damage)
• Sacrificial Steel (+crit chance, doubled for Heavy Attacks)
• Amalgam Organ Shatter (+crit damage, +Heavy Attack speed)
• Gladiator Might (+crit damage)
• Spoiled Strike (+damage, -attack speed)

You don't need that exact build, as there are lots of ways to adjust this and still have it do the same thing.

But anyway, if you enter the Archon Hunt with that setup, you will be overgeared for Archons.  Thankfully they don't move too much, so hopefully aiming won't be much of a problem.

 

I hope any of this helps, but if it's failing to account for any specific needs you have, let me know!  I'd really love to help my fellow disabled players find ways to enjoy and overcome the game!

Oh wow, I am beyond amazed at the thoughtfulness and effort you put into this comment, thank you from the bottom of my heart! I can't wait to try this in-game. I LOVE playing Baruuk, but he isn't that well suited for most regular content (though he does amazingly in Corpus SP). I would never have thought to bring him to an Archon hunt, but this build looks amazing!

Thank you so so much, you are incredible!!!

[(PSN)Unstar]

20 hours ago, Ivi104 said:

Oh wow, I am beyond amazed at the thoughtfulness and effort you put into this comment, thank you from the bottom of my heart! I can't wait to try this in-game. I LOVE playing Baruuk, but he isn't that well suited for most regular content (though he does amazingly in Corpus SP). I would never have thought to bring him to an Archon hunt, but this build looks amazing!

Thank you so so much, you are incredible!!!

I'll be overjoyed if my advice can help you get over these hurdles!  If anything else gets in your way or you need more specifics, just ping me (quote reply or direct message) and I'll be happy to do my best!  I hope you have a great time!

[-Virtue-]

Woaw... I honeslty can't believe seing this thread... Are you serious ?

There is almost no challenge in WF. For 95% of the content, you just need to play a take time to do stuff...

If you think WF has "crazy difficul content", just stop video games...

[AlucardNoir]

6 hours ago, -Virtue- said:

Woaw... I honeslty can't believe seing this thread... Are you serious ?

There is almost no challenge in WF. For 95% of the content, you just need to play a take time to do stuff...

If you think WF has "crazy difficul content", just stop video games...

Did you actually read the OP or just replied solely based on the title?

[-Virtue-]

Le 08/08/2023 à 09:29, AlucardNoir a dit :

Did you actually read the OP or just replied solely based on the title?

I read. TO be honest, I did not pay attention at the disability. My bad.  But it would be stupid to answer about disability by arguing with general terms...that's why.

I'm disable too.

And I'm bored with woke people. Everything is not about a ONE guy.

I only see with one eye. There are many things I can't do. Many special activities and games I can't play.  I don't whine about things that only concern me. I'm not whining about making VR stuff especially for me. If I use VR, I know that I will be penalized. I'm not aksing for eveything changing just for me. If I go watch a 3D movies, I accept not being able to see the 3D effect and just enjoy the movie. I'm not aksing to make adjustement for me.

Like I said, WF is already easy  95% of the time easy. Asking for making everything easy is just kind of selfish. 

Edited January 27 by -Virtue-
orthographe et mots manquants

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

"Crazy difficult content" is wild 

Edited August 8, 2023 by (XBOX)Tanta Cinta

[Electra-VIIX]

Last night I FINALLY beat him!     LOLZ.   And I got his sword which was so NICE.  Great prize.   I cursed my way through it.   I had trouble throwing crystals while he kept teleporting.  I was on my LAST revive when I cracked the second crystal and had two more life bars to defeat.   And somehow I did it.  Luck?  I think so.   But I did it and that's the last time I'll ever see that jerk boss again!   I ranked up my sword that I got and stuck his toggle head in my quarters right next to his crystal glass prison thingy.  

 

Whew.  Can't wait for next set.

[(PSN)Dragoon790]

I pulled it off! Thanks to everyone who offered advice and refrained from making condescending comments.

[AlucardNoir]

21 hours ago, -Virtue- said:

I read. TO be honest, I did not pay attention at the disability. My bad.  But it would be stupid to answer about disability by arguing with general terms...that's why.

I'm disable too.

And I'm bored with woke people. Everything is not about a one guy.

I only see with one eye. I have many things I can't do. Many special activities and games I can't play.  I don't whine about things that only concern me. I'm not whining about making VR stuff. If I use VR, I know that I will be penalized. I'm not aksing for eveything changing just for me. If I go watch a 3D movies, I accpet not being able the 3D effect and just enkoy the movie. I'm not aksing to make adjustement for me.

Like I said, WF is already easy  95% of the time easy. Asking for making everything easy is just kind of selfish. 

I think you're missing the point. Say you start a game, and discover you can do the everything the game throws at you. You're happy because you finally found a game you can play. Then the devs decide to deviate from the games usual gameplay with a new boss fight. And now you can't do it any more. The game has suddenly become hard. Not because you changed, not because your disability became worse but because the game is now emphasizing new mechanics that are beyond your capabilities.

This isn't about game journos complaining about difficulty and pretending it's all for disabled people when the truth is they either suck or don't like the gamepaly. It's about a disabled person that found a game he could play and the develops of that game experimenting in ways that not only deviate from the core gameplay loop of their game, but make the new content inaccessible to certain long time players.

I wasn't playing when this fight originally came out and I was still saving for an Oubliette key. Now I have the Vitrica, should probably pick it up from the foundry and rank it. But here's the thing, even I, a person that could do the mission, thinks the mission is bad. It's bad because not only are we not allowed to use our abilities, but we aren't allowed to use weapons and the shard throwing mechanics is just play 'ol bad. Did I mention Nihil insults us while we learn the fight?

Now was it difficult though? No. Was it easy? no. Will I ever play it again? Not if I can help it. And this is why I personally understand the OPs point. This fight deviates way too much from the usual gameplay of Warframe to be defended as "easy". It doesn't matter if it's easy or hard, it's not Warframe. For the OP, Warframe is mostly a game they can play despite their problems. But this mission is one that's beyond their physical capabilities. And well, as long as the mission also deviates from regular gameplay, I have to fall on their side. This isn't as much a matter of easy vs hard as much as it's one of usual gameplay vs novel gameplay. Being able to do the Nihil fight doesn't mean the fight is easy, any more that it means it's hard and you should pat yourself on the back for wining it. It means you can do the fight. Not being able to do the fight similarly doesn't necessarily mean the fight is hard as much as it might mean one can literally not fulfill the physical requirements to complete the fight.

 

This discussion reminds me of a scene from GATTACA where the main character attends a piano concert and only realizes at the end that the pianist had 6 fingers. He's then informed by his date that the piece of music they heard could have only been played by a six fingered pianist. It's not a matter of the piece being hard or easy to learn and master, as much it's a fact of the piece needing 6 fingers to be played to begin with. I think this is the situation of the Nihil fight for the OP. 

[--Leyenda-yight6]

.

Edited August 9, 2023 by --Leyenda-yight6

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 7 horas, AlucardNoir dijo:

The game has suddenly become hard. Not because you changed, not because your disability became worse but because the game is now emphasizing new mechanics that are beyond your capabilities.

then you learn the new mechanics, like in all games. However, what is the new mechanic here? throw glass? It's not asking you to fight a Dark Souls boss either.

hace 7 horas, AlucardNoir dijo:

It's about a disabled person that found a game he could play and the develops of that game experimenting in ways that not only deviate from the core gameplay loop of their game, but make the new content inaccessible to certain long time players.

what inaccessible content? nihil fight is not mandatory to advance the game plot.

hace 8 horas, AlucardNoir dijo:

It's bad because not only are we not allowed to use our abilities, but we aren't allowed to use weapons and the shard throwing mechanics is just play 'ol bad. Did I mention Nihil insults us while we learn the fight?

It's bad because it's a bit boring, there's a lot of time I don't do anything. an insulting boss? never seen before (vor, sergeant, vay hek, etc).

hace 8 horas, AlucardNoir dijo:

Now was it difficult though? No. Was it easy? no. Will I ever play it again? Not if I can help it.

There is no reason to face him again, he gives you the vitrica with beating him once.

hace 8 horas, AlucardNoir dijo:

This fight deviates way too much from the usual gameplay of Warframe to be defended as "easy". It doesn't matter if it's easy or hard, it's not Warframe.

Subjective "not Warframe", everyone has a different answer of what they consider to be Warframe.

hace 8 horas, AlucardNoir dijo:

For the OP, Warframe is mostly a game they can play despite their problems. But this mission is one that's beyond their physical capabilities. And well, as long as the mission also deviates from regular gameplay, I have to fall on their side. This isn't as much a matter of easy vs hard as much as it's one of usual gameplay vs novel gameplay. Being able to do the Nihil fight doesn't mean the fight is easy, any more that it means it's hard and you should pat yourself on the back for wining it. It means you can do the fight. Not being able to do the fight similarly doesn't necessarily mean the fight is hard as much as it might mean one can literally not fulfill the physical requirements to complete the fight.

I understand that op has problems with the confrontation, and for that he can ask for advice and help in the forums and in the game chats, but ask that the game adapt to him and even say that the developers should be fired just for not attending his needs are absurd, I understand that you are frustrated but it is not the way to do things. The developers can do whatever they want with the game, BECAUSE IT'S THEIR GAME, but we can let them know when we're not satisfied by RESPECTFULLY communicating it. Also, the nihil fight only hides the vitrica, there is no essential content locked and just beating him once is enough, after that you can forget about him forever.

[AlucardNoir]

37 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

There is no reason to face him again, he gives you the vitrica with beating him once.

You mean like people that already had the Vitrica had no reason to face him this time...

As for what's "not Warframe" being subjective, you mean like how in January of 2022, after the release of New War fewer people were playing than not just before it's release but a full year earlier in January of 2021 or at any other point of 2021? Or at least that was the case for Steam players. Or how DE themselves walked back their Duviri dual start because it gave the wrong impression of what is core Warframe gameplay in the latest update? (you can literally go read the release post of Echos of Duviri if you don't believe me)  Or how Warframe is advertised as "Ninaja's play for free" with bullet jumping warframes while we got Kahl weekly missions that not a small part of the community refers to as Call of Kahl as not just a reference to CoD but to the differences in gameplay between CoD and Warframe? Anyone trying to defend the last few years of releasing content that has nothing to do with the games core gameplay loop really needs to stop. The only people you are gaslighting is yourselves. The devs are DE know what is core Warframe gameplay. They know what the core gameplay loop is. And they have been trying to add alternatives to that loop for years now. The open Worlds, the Quests, Nightwave bosses, duviri; boy have they tried to "diversify" what counts as warframes core gameplay loop. And guess what? based on their Echos of Duviri release post they have not succeed. People still think warframe abilities and weapons are what the core gameplay of Warframe is all about and Duviri's poor man's souls like isn't why anybody is sticking around.

Seriously, stop pretending like we're morons that don't know what game we're playing. Every warframe player knows what the core gameplay loop of Warframe is. That's why we keep coming back. It's not because the game is free, it's because no other looter shooter out there offers exactly what Warframe offers. And if we as players know it I can guarantee you that DE knows it as well. Nobody's buying your impotent defense of DE's choices when you say stuff like:

37 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

Subjective "not Warframe", everyone has a different answer of what they consider to be Warframe.

When DE in their own Echoes of Duviri update patch notes says they gave up on Duviri as a starting choice because they want new players to first get and accurate representation of core Warframe gameplay before they're introduced to Duviri.

I get it, you like the game and all, so do I, but this level of defensiveness and gaslighting has to stop, and no, you're not the only one that has been doing this. Everybody that plays this game knows what the core gameplay loop is. Everybody. There is no subjectively about to it. There's a reason why the open worlds are considers content islands and not part of the core gameplay loop of the game. 

Edited August 9, 2023 by AlucardNoir
posted it with an unfinished argument that I did not intent to make it into the final post

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 3 horas, AlucardNoir dijo:

Or how Warframe is advertised as "Ninaja's play for free" with bullet jumping warframes while we got Kahl weekly missions that not a small part of the community refers to as Call of Kahl as not just a reference to CoD but to the differences in gameplay between CoD and Warframe? Anyone trying to defend the last few years of releasing content that has nothing to do with the games core gameplay loop really needs to stop. The only people you are gaslighting is yourselves. The devs are DE know what is core Warframe gameplay. They know what the core gameplay loop is. And they have been trying to add alternatives to that loop for years now. The open Worlds, the Quests, Nightwave bosses, duviri; boy have they tried to "diversify" what counts as warframes core gameplay loop. And guess what? based on their Echos of Duviri release post they have not succeed.

What's ninja about going with a missile launcher bow or a plasma shotgun?
In that case the game would have to be more stealthy and strategic.
well, there are players who accept duviri and khal as part of warframe, and others who only accept the basic missions of the game (defense, extermination, capture, etc.), then there are those who accept open worlds, railjack and necramech, those who exclude railjack and archwing and so on, each one includes and excludes what it considers warframe. to me duviri and khal are the only ones that come to feel like a different game because our team has little impact (or none in khal's case) and vice versa.

hace 4 horas, AlucardNoir dijo:

I get it, you like the game and all, so do I, but this level of defensiveness and gaslighting has to stop, and no, you're not the only one that has been doing this. Everybody that plays this game knows what the core gameplay loop is. Everybody.

Well, of course, I defend DE tooth and nail because I support each and every one of their decisions, even if they are terrible... there are many things that I don't like about Warframe, such as the hunting of eidolons, khal, which hardly has any difficulty and some absurd farms like the one with holokeys.
If I entered this game, it's because it's free, because of the parkour, because of the theme, and because it's not full of micropayments.

[Jarriaga]

OP: While I understand you feel frustrated at what you perceive to be as difficult content there are others like me who feel frustrated at how easy WF is today vs 2018. Enemies have been nerfed into oblivion to the point level 999 Steel Path enemies are still easier than what we had back then. 

That's the WF I miss.

You and I will never see eye to eye. Every time DE makes the game easier and so brain dead even a Deadite from Evil Dead can beat it on raw stats alone they push me away from the game. 

We are different people. Your definition of fun is incompatible with mine, and I will not feel pity for you at the expense of my own enjoyment. Something's got to give.

[Kaiga]

On 2023-08-05 at 6:54 AM, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

And who are you to decide what developers should do with their game? You are only a player who did not like this latest update

I don't know if you've been paying attention to the plummeting daily player counts, the massively negative response to the new war's core design, or the fact that the "last logged in" numbers in your clan list are getting into the triple digits, but sure, keep saying "oh it's just you who had a problem with it" until there's nobody left to complain but a few hundred apologists of bad design.  

It's painfully obvious that the most important update in warframe's history didn't bring in squat, and flopped because it was a 3 hour soulsframe demo (sound familiar to duviri?) instead of you know, a war?

DE themselves are bailing, splitting off to work on a new IP. You can keep telling yourself that all you like, but one day you'll realize that these brain bomb takes did nothing but continue sinking the ship.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Kaiga