Echoes of Duviri: Hotfix 33.6.8

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

But I am certain there will be heirloom buyers asking for refunds if they go that path. 

Do people demand refunds when DE puts Supporter packs on sale? Did people demand refunds on their Prime Access purchases when the first Prime Unvaulting brought back previously exclusive cosmetics? And if someone is petty enough to demand a refund just because of a change in exclusivity then let them. The ToS states plainly that DE can make whatever changes to the game they want whenever they want. And while that might be "unfair", is it not also unfair that players who didn't play for the right 4 months in 2023 will never get to have these skins? Which "unfairness" is more important for a company that prides itself on "F2P done right"?

[Jarriaga]

40 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Do people demand refunds when DE puts Supporter packs on sale? Did people demand refunds on their Prime Access purchases when the first Prime Unvaulting brought back previously exclusive cosmetics? And if someone is petty enough to demand a refund just because of a change in exclusivity then let them. The ToS states plainly that DE can make whatever changes to the game they want whenever they want. And while that might be "unfair", is it not also unfair that players who didn't play for the right 4 months in 2023 will never get to have these skins? Which "unfairness" is more important for a company that prides itself on "F2P done right"?

That's DE's official statement. I personally don't think the number of people who are petty enough to go that route is significant, but I don't think DE want to open the doors to that becoming a possibility by stirring that pot.

44 minutes ago, iPathos said:

You're welcome to hold that position, just as I and many others hold the position that it's not good enough. We have every right, every ability to voice our discontent with this choice and while you seem to have given up all intent to even attempt to incite change (or at the very least discussion of change), clearly not all of us have.

There are a lot of decisions that DE has made over the years that I've personally felt were either disingenuous or ill-informed; I believe this is a combination of those factors plus more.

Telling us not to bother with feedback because you personally perceive it as a "worthless" endeavour is your prerogative, not mine, not others.

If you disagree with the content of the feedback, maybe there's potential for further dialogue on this. However based on what I've read so far, that doesn't appear to be the case.

It must feel quite nice, warm and cozy to still have hope on things ever changing despite the number of precedents that show observable repeated patterns.

Keep your hope. But don't hold your breath.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Jarriaga

[iPathos]

50 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Do people demand refunds when DE puts Supporter packs on sale? Did people demand refunds on their Prime Access purchases when the first Prime Unvaulting brought back previously exclusive cosmetics? And if someone is petty enough to demand a refund just because of a change in exclusivity then let them. The ToS states plainly that DE can make whatever changes to the game they want whenever they want. And while that might be "unfair", is it not also unfair that players who didn't play for the right 4 months in 2023 will never get to have these skins? Which "unfairness" is more important for a company that prides itself on "F2P done right"?

Those are not the same situations for the same reasons given before. Simply ignoring the facts of the situation aren't helping your approach.

My point from before remains; we (the dissatisfied players) have every right and considerable enough drive to voice our discontent, so we will.

You can't even attempt to equate Prime Access (or vaulting or the eventual state of resurgence) to the heirloom skins as even if you only consider the cosmetic side of things - PA allows you early access to content that remains for a very considerable period of time (let alone with the non-cosmetics still being technically obtainable through trading) while resurgence gives you more granular control over what exactly you want to buy. Both of these include the tiny caveat that they are returning and they have an established price point.

The heirloom skins are deluxe skins that (along with themselves) come with a brand new, otherwise-unobtainable, non-returning type of cosmetic that is usable on all frames, while also selling an account accolade that was originally intended to be free and implies the buyers are ten-year veterans (despite the ability to buy it within hours of starting the game), while also fluffing up half the packs with non-negotiable Regal Aya that has extremely limited use in this situation. If players want Regal Aya, they will buy it.

Edit: just realised my phone quoted the wrong post, nice.

It was meant to be quoting @Jarriaga's message (as phone forums have considerable issues moving quote blocks), for clarity.

Edited September 7, 2023 by iPathos
Misclick

[Jarriaga]

9 minutes ago, iPathos said:

Those are not the same situations for the same reasons given before. Simply ignoring the facts of the situation aren't helping your approach.

My point from before remains; we (the dissatisfied players) have every right and considerable enough drive to voice our discontent, so we will.

You can't even attempt to equate Prime Access (or vaulting or the eventual state of resurgence) to the heirloom skins as even if you only consider the cosmetic side of things - PA allows you early access to content that remains for a very considerable period of time (let alone with the non-cosmetics still being technically obtainable through trading) while resurgence gives you more granular control over what exactly you want to buy. Both of these include the tiny caveat that they are returning and they have an established price point.

The heirloom skins are deluxe skins that (along with themselves) come with a brand new, otherwise-unobtainable, non-returning type of cosmetic that is usable on all frames, while also selling an account accolade that was originally intended to be free and implies the buyers are ten-year veterans (despite the ability to buy it within hours of starting the game), while also fluffing up half the packs with non-negotiable Regal Aya that has extremely limited use in this situation. If players want Regal Aya, they will buy it.

Edit: just realised my phone quoted the wrong post, nice.

It was meant to be quoting @Jarriaga's message (as phone forums have considerable issues moving quote blocks), for clarity.

You have every right to voice your discontent. I have not questioned that.

I am merely pointing out that your discontent is meaningless and toothless. DE won't change. Your discontent won't make them change.

If change was a consideration or a learning experience we wouldn't even be here to begin with.

Observable repeated patterns: Offer a cash-only bundle with questionable value, expect backlash, add additional items to increase perceived value without altering price, repeat the same behavior next time.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Jarriaga

[iPathos]

8 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

You have every right to voice your discontent. I have not questioned that.

I am merely pointing out that your discontent is meaningless and toothless. DE won't change. Your discontent won't make them change.

If change was a consideration or a learning experience we wouldn't even be here to begin with.

Observable repeated patterns: Offer a cash-only bundle with questionable value, expect backlash, add additional items to increase perceived value without altering price, repeat the same behavior next time.

I've been mucking about within Warframe since 2015, practically without a break. I've seen what DE is capable of on both of the Digital Extremes. Not to mention enjoying several of their earlier contributions to the gaming space, their practices are not new to me.

I said before, the perceived usefulness (or lack thereof) of player feedback about this is clearly not of great import to you - some of us must just care a little more. We all get jaded for varying reasons, it's just rather ironic that the largest detraction I've seen from the discontent and disappointment comes from those who've bought the bundle. That's not to say there's people who've bought the bundle who are still disappointment, as well as those who haven't bought it but simply say "vote with your wallet".

I'm not asking for them to suddenly rework the entire bundle to fit my specific desire for "fairness" or anything of the like. I personally want for them to acknowledge that this approach is no bueno and that any intent to pull it again would be a mistake.

Regardless; these points are circular and you clearly show no capacity to change your approach, so I will leave this here for the moment.

[PublikDomain]

3 minutes ago, iPathos said:

Those are not the same situations for the same reasons given before. Simply ignoring the facts of the situation aren't helping your approach.

I don't think I'm really ignoring anything? The "situation" is DE releasing content and then changing that content afterwards, which they've done many times in the past whether it be changing exclusivity or changing prices. Remember that at one point Prime content didn't return. There was no promise of that, and cosmetics had the same exclusivity as Heirlooms:

Quote

Harness ancient Orokin technology with the newest Primes -- Ember Prime, Sicarus Prime and Glaive Prime -- PLUS get the exclusive Misa Syandana Prime and Ember Prime Avatars.

Quote

Make the newest Primes yours - instantly - including Loki Prime, Bo Prime and the first-ever Prime Sentinel - Wyrm Prime. Plus, get Exclusive Gear available only through Prime Access!

It wasn't until the first Prime Unvaulting that they came back and became less exclusive - and for a lower price. They were no longer "available only through Prime Access". Many other exclusive cosmetics are now no longer exclusive, like the Twitch Prime items (now permanently available from Varzia). Deluxe skins themselves were once time limited exclusives, yet since 2015 you've been able to buy those once-exclusive skins whenever you want. There are also many gameplay items that were exclusive or limited, like Lato/Braton Vandal, Ignis Wraith BPs, Primed Chamber, etc. DE also claimed that it would be "unfair" to early adopters of Prime Resurgence for them to change the contents of those packs, only to do exactly that within less than 24 hours of release. Supporter packs always go on sale the last few weeks before they expire and it's a pretty large amount - like 45% off. Is that not "unfair" too?

Point being, this stuff changes all the time. If the idea is that DE can't change the exclusivity of Heirloom packs because it wouldn't be "fair", then what about all the other times they've changed exclusivity? What about all the other times they've changed pricing? If this "fairness" has never turned out to be a real issue before, why would it suddenly become an issue now?

16 minutes ago, iPathos said:

while also selling an account accolade that was originally intended to be free and implies the buyers are ten-year veterans (despite the ability to buy it within hours of starting the game)

Got a source on it being intended to be free? The Accolade is certainly one of the big things I'm, uh, "less than enthused" by.

[iPathos]

22 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I don't think I'm really ignoring anything? The "situation" is DE releasing content and then changing that content afterwards, which they've done many times in the past whether it be changing exclusivity or changing prices. Remember that at one point Prime content didn't return. There was no promise of that, and cosmetics had the same exclusivity as Heirlooms:

It wasn't until the first Prime Unvaulting that they came back and became less exclusive - and for a lower price. They were no longer "available only through Prime Access". Many other exclusive cosmetics are now no longer exclusive, like the Twitch Prime items (now permanently available from Varzia). Deluxe skins themselves were once time limited exclusives, yet since 2015 you've been able to buy those once-exclusive skins whenever you want. There are also many gameplay items that were exclusive or limited, like Lato/Braton Vandal, Ignis Wraith BPs, Primed Chamber, etc. DE also claimed that it would be "unfair" to early adopters of Prime Resurgence for them to change the contents of those packs, only to do exactly that within less than 24 hours of release. Supporter packs always go on sale the last few weeks before they expire and it's a pretty large amount - like 45% off. Is that not "unfair" too?

Point being, this stuff changes all the time. If the idea is that DE can't change the exclusivity of Heirloom packs because it wouldn't be "fair", then what about all the other times they've changed exclusivity? What about all the other times they've changed pricing? If this "fairness" has never turned out to be a real issue before, why would it suddenly become an issue now?

Got a source on it being intended to be free? The Accolade is certainly one of the big things I'm, uh, "less than enthused" by.

No no, I'm on your side here. That quote was a misclick on my part and it's both a pain and nigh on impossible to correct from mobile in the manner I'd prefer to. 😅

I don't personally have a source on the accolade claim but the person I've heard it from is generally rather pedantic about their sources, so I will get back to you on that one.

While I'm not specifically pushing for further change to the bundles (rather as said, a statement of intent moving forward or similar), I would still very much welcome the addition of variant packs with only one half of the options (mag or frost), or something entirely lacking the Regal Aya. Simply throwing more platinum into the packs isn't fixing the issue(s), not by a long shot.

[Jarriaga]

1 hour ago, iPathos said:

I've been mucking about within Warframe since 2015, practically without a break. I've seen what DE is capable of on both of the Digital Extremes. Not to mention enjoying several of their earlier contributions to the gaming space, their practices are not new to me.

I said before, the perceived usefulness (or lack thereof) of player feedback about this is clearly not of great import to you - some of us must just care a little more. We all get jaded for varying reasons, it's just rather ironic that the largest detraction I've seen from the discontent and disappointment comes from those who've bought the bundle. That's not to say there's people who've bought the bundle who are still disappointment, as well as those who haven't bought it but simply say "vote with your wallet".

I'm not asking for them to suddenly rework the entire bundle to fit my specific desire for "fairness" or anything of the like. I personally want for them to acknowledge that this approach is no bueno and that any intent to pull it again would be a mistake.

Regardless; these points are circular and you clearly show no capacity to change your approach, so I will leave this here for the moment.

In my case: I used to be a rather hopeful and optimistic player, giving DE the benefit of doubt on multiple occasions. They however showed me time and time and time again that they are not really open to feedback. I compiled every single instance that came to mind:

As a result I figured sharing feedback or my discontent is a legitimate waste of everybody's time.

Thus, my actual real options are:

1) Accept that things won't change (Because they are set in stone, for years if need be, with expected calculated backlash for PR) and take it all in with no lube. Enjoy the game for what DE want it to be in all extremes.

2) Leave the game.

I have pointed out I don't have a problem with the value proposition of the collection (Hence why I bought it), but I see why there are people upset about it. However: They are wasting their time if they think/feel their voices matter. They never did.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Jarriaga

[iPathos]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Got a source on it being intended to be free? The Accolade is certainly one of the big things I'm, uh, "less than enthused" by.

After enquiring further, it appears that claim/belief comes from the 10YearAccolade resource(s) being added to the game at the same time as the rest of the Recall: Ten-Zero event, far before the heirloom skins or their resources were added to the game.

Far from the clear indicator that I expected to be told of, but it's certainly enough to raise an eyebrow.

[Divinehero]

still no fix for the flickering UI elements?

[PublikDomain]

39 minutes ago, iPathos said:

After enquiring further, it appears that claim/belief comes from the 10YearAccolade resource(s) being added to the game at the same time as the rest of the Recall: Ten-Zero event, far before the heirloom skins or their resources were added to the game.

Far from the clear indicator that I expected to be told of, but it's certainly enough to raise an eyebrow.

Gotcha.

2 hours ago, iPathos said:

While I'm not specifically pushing for further change to the bundles (rather as said, a statement of intent moving forward or similar), I would still very much welcome the addition of variant packs with only one half of the options (mag or frost), or something entirely lacking the Regal Aya. Simply throwing more platinum into the packs isn't fixing the issue(s), not by a long shot.

Neither am I, and I think the value of the bundles are now in a pretty solid place - if you have a use for the plat and Regal Aya and don't want just one of the two skins. I think they should leave the bundles as-is for the stated duration as the good value discounted contents Supporter bundles they are, dump the "it's unfair to be fair" nonsense, and put the skins on the market for plat like all the other Deluxe skins. Then you can buy just half of the skins if you only want one, you don't have to buy filler premium currencies, you can spend the premium currencies you've already paid for, and the unwashed F2Ps aren't excluded and can "celebrate" too. These skins can even be expensive, idc, 600p for the pair ($29-$32 USD) would probably be just fine for some "special" skins. It's the exact same model as the New War Supporter packs and those went over great!

[LordLoaly]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb Jarriaga:

Of. Course. You. Don't. See. A. Problem. In. An. Action. That. Directly. Benefits. You. Water is wet. Vanilla smells nice.

But I am certain there will be heirloom buyers asking for refunds if they go that path. 

Who says I directly benefit from that? Cause I don't. Actions like this happen all the time in all aspects of trade and buisiness. Besides Warframe: I bought my Nintendo Switch 2 weeks before the OLED version was announced....Which I would have rather liked to have and would have purchased instead, had I waited. Theres still no point getting mad about it. A financial desicion was made, which at the time was the best option and the value still holds up even after new options arise. The fact that you argue people would issue refunds just tells me you (and others with the same viewpoint) think buying these skins is a mistake. So to those who bought it and argue against me...why did you buy it in the first place? I'd advise you to be more considerate in the future. 

 

 

I am not saying this to be petty or to have my "Ha! gotcha!" moment. Financial consideration and patience are important skills in all aspects of life. We, the consumers, get bombarded with every trick of marketing inside and outside the books everyday. Be wary and be safe. At the end of the day, noone is to blame for your decisions but yourself

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by LordLoaly

[Kegnor97]

You might want to check out being unable to use the operator in diviri, its been twice that im on duviri sp and it randomly decides not to allow the operator 

[Supraymer]

Nice work with the fixes, guys!

I just wanted to ask if it's possible to fix Targis Prime's effects on chest and legs, they currently don't work as intended (with energy flowing). It does work when equipped on Railjack Crew tho, wich is strange. Anyways, please take a look at this! <3

Edited September 9, 2023 by Supraymer
Just a little mistake.

[Deus-Ex-Vesania]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb Kegnor97:

You might want to check out being unable to use the operator in diviri, its been twice that im on duviri sp and it randomly decides not to allow the operator 

The 'Ability in use' bug?

That one's around since at least 2017. DE either can't or doesn't care to fix it, just add it to the mountain pile.

[Carmelitha]

DAY 1147: still no way to make a difference between owned ranked ( 5 or less ) arcane and unranked arcanes in vendors UI

Edited September 10, 2023 by Carmelitha