Thoughts/input on new shield gating?

[----Legacy----]

1 hour ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

Again how is it any different? You have to build around the key and make sure you have enough shield restore for it to work, you then have to use an ability to activate the "buff" jus like with speeva needing to cast her 4 to speed up and debuff enemies.

Speedva requires to build for it using your mod slots and arcanes as a compliment to the build; shield gating in its current state uses a consumable (not a mod, not an arcane, not even consuming the consumable and we have unlimited slots in the gear wheel so no limitation applies) and makes it part of your build.

DE's fix to shield gating addresses this by adding a corrupted mod to keep the current gameplay loop for shield gating but will need to actually use a mod slot for it rather than keeping a consumable (free slot) as part of your build. 

And yes, you're now moving the goalpost towards gameplay loop (build -> cast power -> get effect) which is the reason why you see no difference despite how many times these have been pointed in terms of implementation and setup.

Can you see the difference now?

1 hour ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

Reducing stats has always been a part of build crafting, its rewarding to have neg impact on a riv, its rewarding for nova to have neg duration so she can speed up enemies to kill them faster or for baruuk to have neg duration so he can spam lull more often to build restraint faster, its rewarding to use lower ranks of 60/60s, and its even rearding to use combat discipline specifically for the self damage downside to proc arcane avenger. Yet for whatever reason lowering your shields via the key is treated so differently.

Well, yes, it's called "minmaxing" for a reason, but to put it simply:

Neg impact riven = mod (uses a mod slot and consumes mod capacity, may require additional forma in the gear due to mod capacity drain)

Neg duration on Nova = Build (requires all mod slots to be used aiming for the same purpose while playing with mod capacity to make the most out of it)

Neg duration on Baruuk = build (same as Nova)

Lower ranks of 60/60 = mod (uses a mod slot and still consumes mod capacity from your weapons)

Combat Discipline + Arcane Avenger combo = not only uses a mod slot and consumes mod capacity, but also requires an arcane slot of which we only have 2.

Not sure if you see a pattern yet, but in case you don't, i'd like you to tell me what are you giving up in order to equip the Dragon key: it's not a mod so it doesn't use a mod slot nor consumes mod capacity; it's not an arcane so you're not giving up 1/2 arcane slots; gear wheel has no limitation of consumables anymore so you're not even giving up the possibility to take pads, air support, archguns, or anything else into a mission when euipping a Dragon key; unlike all of your examples.

1 hour ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

As for shield gating meant to buff shields and make them meaningful well thats not entirely true. Shield gating was added to prevent one hits to specifically buff shields, thats what the 25% dr addition was for. Now is the gate mechanic the way it was implemented is counterintuitive to the 25% dr buff shields got at the same time, yea kinda but I guarantee if shield gating was not added and it was only the dr buff there would still be nobody actually increasing their shield values past the base amount granted nobody would be intentionally lowering their shields either. Dr that is not 100% means absolutely nothing in higher lvls so in truth 25% dr buff and even the 50% from the update might as well not exist, the new buff will be nice for casual play but you wont even notice it at high lvls. The reason people arent building for shields isnt because shield gating is just better, its because building for more shields literally does nothing at all so the only option left is to build for the one that gives 100% dr. With the way shield gating works this is actually the most build interactivity we have ever had for shields specifically yet for whatever reason wernt happy with it.

Yes, that was the intent. DE sometimes failing on their intents once players discover unexpected interactions from systems which DE forgot about due to how overbloated with systems is their game is a completely different issue, same for them letting players (ab)use these interactions long enough to get backlash once they finally decide to fix them.

 

1 hour ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

So wouldnt the damage system also be flawed because its more rewarding to reduce/remove impact damage from your weapons? Wouldnt anything that rewards using negative stats for a benefit also be flawed by this logic? This is exactly why I hate this argument so much, its such a double standard.

No? On one hand, you're just using the system as intended; people gravitates towards -impact mods on impact biased weapons simply because these usually have too low slash to make even the +120% slash mods worth slotting on top of rivens having more stats than just -impact.

On the other hand, care to show me a consumable that reduces impact damage while equipped? Otherwise you're -once again- just mixing apples with toluene, probably in a deliberate attempt to cloud the discussion with false equivalences.

Edited October 3, 2023 by ----Legacy----

[RichardKam]

I hate shield gating and I believe it was only relevant in lvl 1000+ long endurance SP contents in which at certain level your health effectively becomes binary, 1 or 0. Other than that you don't need shield gating at all, and people were under the misconception that it was the only way any frames can survive in SP exterminate.

Having said that, I think it is a way that DE finally "officiate" shield gating as a proper gameplay element. Before that the game treated "shield" as just shield, and never took the invincibility window seriously. Augur mods and redirection mod reflect this. It was like someone naively think that people would want more shield because shield takes damage, shield recharges, shield good, so let's give you more shield.  

Now that we have new shield gating. Redirection finally has some meanings (maybe vigor as well). No more dragon keys. We have a new mod replacing an item for builds. The implication is that this will open a lot more opportunities for future development, to play around with the new concept of shield gating. 

[(NSW)warfare3376]

4 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Speedva requires to build for it using your mod slots and arcanes as a compliment to the build; shield gating in its current state uses a consumable (not a mod, not an arcane, not even consuming the consumable and we have unlimited slots in the gear wheel so no limitation applies) and makes it part of your build.

Sheild gating also requires you to use mods to build for it, this is what I mean the key is way too overvalued that has cause way too much misconception. The key is not required to make shield gating work, you can get the full 1.33 sec shield gate without the key equipped its just some frames can do it way better than others. All the key does is make it easier to reach the threshold which opens up a ton of build diversity.

 

20 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Not sure if you see a pattern yet, but in case you don't, i'd like you to tell me what are you giving up in order to equip the Dragon key: it's not a mod so it doesn't use a mod slot nor consumes mod capacity; it's not an arcane so you're not giving up 1/2 arcane slots; gear wheel has no limitation of consumables anymore so you're not even giving up the possibility to take pads, air support, archguns, or anything else into a mission when euipping a Dragon key; unlike all of your examples.

Let me spell it out for you then, in order for the key to be effective you will need to also have the brief respite aura and/or auger mods maybe put in rolling guard and on top of that you need to also make sure that your energy cost is high enough to be able to get enough shields back like you still need to mod for shield gating to get it to work the key does not magically allow shield gating to work with no need for mods.

 

34 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

No? On one hand, you're just using the system as intended; people gravitates towards -impact mods on impact biased weapons simply because these usually have too low slash to make even the +120% slash mods worth slotting on top of rivens having more stats than just -impact.

Are you even hearing yourself now? "Youre just using the system as intended" yea the way ips weighting works, if you have higher slash damage there will be a higher chance to proc it on a status proc and if you have no impact it never be able to proc, yes completely intended, riven mods can roll negative stats which will in return will buff the positive stats and one of the possible negs can be impact, yes completely intended.

Now lets look at shield gating for a second, what the mechanic does is it protects health by preventing damage from overflowing from your shields and in addition gives a brief period of invulnerability based on if you had max or partial shields, 1.33 and .33 respectfully, yes completely intended. The decaying dragon key reduces your shields by 75% while holding it while in return lets you open the corresponding vault door on deimos, yes completely intended.

Both the key and riven mod negatives have different intended effect to merit the downside yet both can be used in a way that makes the negative a benefit instead by combining them with other intended effects, the same applies to all the other examples I mentioned.

1 hour ago, ----Legacy---- said:

On the other hand, care to show me a consumable that reduces impact damage while equipped? Otherwise you're -once again- just mixing apples with toluene, probably in a deliberate attempt to cloud the discussion with false equivalences.

Well if you want to get technical then technically the extinguished dragon would reduce impact damage but also all other damage equaling in the process so not really useful. Jokes aside rivens are the best comparison, rivens as you said also have positive stats and often time are way better than any other mod so it will most likely be used anyway especially if the dispo is high enough to achieve -100% impact, you would be using the riv primarily for the positive stats but the negative can give you a nice benefit without costing anything else in the process apart from millions of kuva if you consider that. If you are using the decaying key you will also need brief respite or enough auger mods meaning at minimum you will need one mod slot but will gain an additional benefit in the process, so yea they are very similar to each other.

Also you seem to think Im against these changes when in reality Im actually quite happy with it, DE did a good job with the changes Ive even in the past said that shield gate duration should be based on how much shield you have rather than an all or nothing which is exactly what they are doing. I just hate the overvaluing and misconceptions about the key that gets spread, shields were honestly in a perfectly fine state as they were but here they are getting buffed again meanwhile health and armor desperately need to be looked at but were completely ignored, I bet the reason for this is from all the drama that came from the key topic. Because of this nothing much will change when it comes to high lvl endurance, you will still need to use shield gate or be invis or any other method to bypass the insane amount of incoming damage to survive and I also be with the way shield gating will work that the new catalyzing shields mod wont get much use either tho we will have to see in practice.

[----Legacy----]

37 minutes ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

Sheild gating also requires you to use mods to build for it, this is what I mean the key is way too overvalued that has cause way too much misconception. The key is not required to make shield gating work, you can get the full 1.33 sec shield gate without the key equipped its just some frames can do it way better than others. All the key does is make it easier to reach the threshold which opens up a ton of build diversity.

So? The key may not be required to shield gate but since shields are being tweaked to reward actually using shields then it becomes apparent how using the key as a free slot to reduce shields and reset gates easily is the main reason to defend shield gate in its current state.

45 minutes ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

Let me spell it out for you then, in order for the key to be effective you will need to also have the brief respite aura and/or auger mods maybe put in rolling guard and on top of that you need to also make sure that your energy cost is high enough to be able to get enough shields back like you still need to mod for shield gating to get it to work the key does not magically allow shield gating to work with no need for mods.

Guess i'll need to make a drawing at this point. Yes, you need mods and build around the key in order to get the most out of it. No, even if you build around the key, you're still using it as the foundation for your build even though it doesn't take a mod slot, doesn't drain your mod capacity, doesn't use your aura slot nor makes you give up an arcane.

That's the part you seem to be refusing to comprehend.

52 minutes ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

Are you even hearing yourself now? "Youre just using the system as intended" yea the way ips weighting works, if you have higher slash damage there will be a higher chance to proc it on a status proc and if you have no impact it never be able to proc, yes completely intended, riven mods can roll negative stats which will in return will buff the positive stats and one of the possible negs can be impact, yes completely intended.

Negative impact is still a negative since it lowers the overall damage of the weapon; it's negligible since IPS mods work using base damage of their own IPS type for calculations (reason why +120% IPS mods are still worthless in most cases) and since impact status is useless, of course reducing how often it procs is bound to be perceived as a positive in practice since the damage loss is also minimal.

Yes, it works as intended, the damage system being flawed in the way that some status procs are useless while others are desired is a completely different issue which you'll keep trying to get in the mix jusy because it's yet another false equivalence to support your flawed narrative.

1 hour ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

Also you seem to think Im against these changes when in reality Im actually quite happy with it, DE did a good job with the changes Ive even in the past said that shield gate duration should be based on how much shield you have rather than an all or nothing which is exactly what they are doing. I just hate the overvaluing and misconceptions about the key that gets spread, shields were honestly in a perfectly fine state as they were but here they are getting buffed again meanwhile health and armor desperately need to be looked at but were completely ignored, I bet the reason for this is from all the drama that came from the key topic. Because of this nothing much will change when it comes to high lvl endurance, you will still need to use shield gate or be invis or any other method to bypass the insane amount of incoming damage to survive and I also be with the way shield gating will work that the new catalyzing shields mod wont get much use either tho we will have to see in practice.

The mechanic is being changed for something that seems to be closer in fulfilling the purpose of making shields better while rewarding building for shields as well; why even waste time and energy arguing about the current state of shield gating when it will still be kept but through a corrupted mod instead -removing the "free slot"- to balance it out?

[(NSW)warfare3376]

2 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Guess i'll need to make a drawing at this point. Yes, you need mods and build around the key in order to get the most out of it. No, even if you build around the key, you're still using it as the foundation for your build even though it doesn't take a mod slot, doesn't drain your mod capacity, doesn't use your aura slot nor makes you give up an arcane.

That's the part you seem to be refusing to comprehend.

No, the foundation is the shield restoration because without it there is no shield gating at all. If the key didnt exist shield gate builds would be the exact same and take up the same amount of mod slots, there is no "free slot" coming from the key, all the key does is make it easier and quicker to get back a full shield gate. The only that there would be if the key didnt exist would be the playstyle, it would be far more boring and unappealing to the average player because it would be a lot camping one spot similar to old endurance, theres a reason why endurance runs have a lot more popularity in recent years.

 

2 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Negative impact is still a negative since it lowers the overall damage of the weapon; it's negligible since IPS mods work using base damage of their own IPS type for calculations (reason why +120% IPS mods are still worthless in most cases) and since impact status is useless, of course reducing how often it procs is bound to be perceived as a positive in practice since the damage loss is also minimal.

Yea and lowering your shields is still a negative too and just like with neg impact its extremely negligible at higher lvls but not as much for lower lvls. Shields get one hit extremely easy especially in higher lvls, the 50% dr coming next update might help that a little for the lower lvls but not so much for higher lvls, so by lowering your max shields you wouldnt even notice the difference but the benefit of doing so is so significant that it is considered purely a positive thing. No matter how you look at it its the same thing yet I have yet to see a single person complain about negatives on rivs acting like positives or any other similar interaction unlike the key+gate combo which is what I really do not like, if its that big a deal then it should also be just as big a deal for all other similar interactions across the board not the one.

 

2 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

The mechanic is being changed for something that seems to be closer in fulfilling the purpose of making shields better while rewarding building for shields as well; why even waste time and energy arguing about the current state of shield gating when it will still be kept but through a corrupted mod instead -removing the "free slot"- to balance it out?

Why bother auguring you ask, honestly too much time on the forums. I really shouldnt be and even said I wasnt going to go further much earlier on yet here I am, I also really do like talking about the shield gate topic and the meta in general as I feel its important to understand exactly what it is and why it is cause without that understanding nothing will ever change. Theres two sides of the spectrum, theres the hardcore meta slaves who will only use the meta stuff then think they are somehow better than everyone else then theres the meta haters that will refuse to touch the meta and get upset when other players give any kind off advice. Obviously its only a small portion of the player base that lie so far on one side spectrum but generally its these two extreme sides that clash with each other and blow thing way out of proportion and obscure what the actual meta and issues with it are thus nothing ever gets improved just shifted to the next thing to repeat the cycle over and over.

Edited October 3, 2023 by (NSW)warfare3376

[AegidiusF]

Le 01/10/2023 à 02:23, mubsmubs a dit :

You can opt to slot in the new Catalyzing Shields to guarantee that 1.3 s, but again, you'd be sacrificing a mod slot as opposed to just using Decaying Dragon Key with the current system.

The problem is that some frames that used to benefit from full shield gate and didn't have to use Dragon key (I never used this, by the way) will now have to use Catalyzing Shields to get the 1,33s of shield gate.

Exemple : Grendel (75 shields) and Grendel Prime (95 shields), who will have less than 1.33s of innate shield gate duration. It will be useless to build their shields as they won't be able to get 325 shields with only Mods (Archon shards would work).

So, for these frames, to keep the current 1.33s of shield gate, Catalyzing shields will be mandatory.

Other frames that have less than 325 shields will also have reduced innate shield gate duration, but not as bad as Grendel and Grendel Prime, and Catalyzing Shileds won't be mandatory for them (specially because many of them have other means of survivability) : Limbo, Loki, Loki Prime, Mesa, Mesa Prime, Mirage, Nezha, Nezha Prime, Nova, Octavia, Valkyr, Valkyr Prime and Vauban.


Grendel's case was confirmed by Pablo on X (ex-Twitter):

[Berzerkules]

I loved shield gating with a key, it made for some fast paced game play that rewarded casters. It also gave almost every frame a reliable way to survive even if their base stats made it hard to build for a traditional tank. I've always preferred casters over tanks so it was a perfect scenario for me. Almost the entire roster of frames had a playstyle I found enjoyable because I could reliably reset a brief invulnerability period. 

I don't see the same gameplay being nearly as accessible to as many frames with the upcoming changes because you won't be able to reliably reset a useable shield gate duration. You will have to wait on shield regen delay and as far as I know there is no way to reduce that. Max 2.5 second shield gate sounds great but how often will you reach max shields while you are in combat?

Slap pillage/condemn on anything and call it a day. Sounds fun...

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 1 heure, Berzerkules a dit :

You will have to wait on shield regen delay and as far as I know there is no way to reduce that.

That's one of the good points of the incoming changes : some mods will be able to reduce the shild regen delay :

• Fast Deflection: added -45% Shield Recharge Delay
• Vigilante Vigor: added -30% Shield Recharge Delay

 

Fast Deflection alone will reduce the shields regen delay to 2.2s (if we consider that the current 4s delay is going to be kept).

In other words : some frames will be able to benefit better from the shield gate mechanics (as Mag, Volt...), but some others will have to waste a Mod slot to benefit from something they currently have as an innate mechanic (as Grendel).

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by (NSW)AegisFifi

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

27 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

That's one of the good points of the incoming changes : some mods will be able to reduce the shild regen delay :

• Fast Deflection: added -45% Shield Recharge Delay
• Vigilante Vigor: added -30% Shield Recharge Delay

 

Fast Deflection alone will reduce the shields regen delay to 2.2s (if we consider that the current 4s delay is going to be kept).

In other words : some frames will be able to benefit better from the shield gate mechanics (as Mag, Volt...), but some others will have to waste a Mod slot to benefit from something they currently have as an innate mechanic (as Grendel).

 

I can't wait to see what happens when people build for maximum shield regeneration and minimum delay time.

[SDGDen]

9 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

I can't wait to see what happens when people build for maximum shield regeneration and minimum delay time.

i run this build on hildryn, fun fact: your shield regen speed also increases with more shields, so on my hildryn i can regenerate around a thousand shields a second.

theoretically, now that that gives me a 2.5s shieldgate, that might make me immortal with the reduced delay time?

[AegidiusF]

il y a 8 minutes, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT a dit :

I can't wait to see what happens when people build for maximum shield regeneration and minimum delay time.

To be honest : I can't wait to try this 😈

I think (but I'm not sure at all) that Fast Deflection and Vigilante Vigor will stack multiplicatevely, granting 1,54s of shield regen delay.

[if they stack additively, sheild regen delay will last only 1s].

 

il y a 1 minute, SDGDen a dit :

theoretically, now that that gives me a 2.5s shieldgate, that might make me immortal with the reduced delay time?

With Hildryn, it will be even better : 3,5s of shield gate duration.

High shielded frames will be much better than Armor tanking frames in most situations, at least I think.

[deucich]

7 минут назад, SDGDen сказал:

i run this build on hildryn, fun fact: your shield regen speed also increases with more shields, so on my hildryn i can regenerate around a thousand shields a second.

theoretically, now that that gives me a 2.5s shieldgate, that might make me immortal with the reduced delay time?

Hildryn has 3s shieldgate and will have 3.5s. Reduced delay time shouldn't make you immortal since you still have to not get hitted the entire delay time for shield regen to kick in.

Edited October 3, 2023 by deucich

[SDGDen]

Just now, deucich said:

Hildryn has 3s shieldgate and will have 3.5s. Reduce delay time shouldn't make you immortal since you still have to not get hitted the entire delay time for shield regen to kick in.

 

4 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

With Hildryn, it will be even better : 3,5s of shield gate duration.

High shielded frames will be much better than Armor tanking frames in most situations, at least I think.

 

is her partial shieldgate also going up? or only her "full" shieldgate? since im thinking i'd only have 1K shields regenerated when vulnerable which would give the max partial shieldgate of 2.5s, 

eh, we'll have to see. 

[DrBorris]

It is a nerf (of requiring one mod slot) to those that think content greater than level 300 is "intended" and refuse to acknowledge that DE has never (and should never) balanced around such content.

It is a pretty significant buff for everyone else. 

 

Previously my stance was that shields should have value when active, not just when broken, but this solution is definitely a step forward. If there are any more changes (which I honestly doubt) I'd like to see shield regeneration get another look to potentially be more interactive.

I also think there is a missed opportunity to turn shield-gate builds into a proper feature (not just a token corrupted mod). I'm not personally a fan of using shield-gate builds, but I absolutely love how they created unique builds and playstyles. Building around this concept and turning it into more of a parry-like system would've been nice. 

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

I really dont like this "its a free item" argument either as its kinda misleading as really the key didnt do much of anything at all, it didnt enable shield gating you can still do it just fine without it all it did was make it easier on frames with lower shield restoration means. You still need to mod accordingly in order to get any use out of the key, you still needed to mod on brief respite/or augur mods as well as make sure you have an ability to shield gate with that has high enough energy cost to fully replenish your shields with. You could argue that more shields should be a benefit and not a downside in which I would agree and is also exactly what DE is doing but since before these changes the shield gate duration was solely based on if you had max shields or not which is the only reason the key was ever used in the 1st place, was just to lower that threshold nothing more nothing less. You still need to reach the necessary maximum amount of shields for full shield gate so the key isnt magically giving you anything extra for free, all it does is lower the threshold which in my eyes is quite a good thing as it opens up a ton of build diversity. But now of course shield gate duration will be based on your current shields rather than them just being at max or not meaning that lowering your shields will never be needed completely devaluing the key without accounting for the nerf to it, Id be willing to bet that the current shield gate builds will still effective enough without the key now or the new catalyzing shields mod as they were prior with really the only change I see being needed is to use a higher cost ability to refresh shield gate and/or use an extra auger mod.

If you like it or not doesnt matter since it is free in the end. There is no opportunity cost to it since it comes from a slot there is no limit on, or atleast no reasonable limit on. You are also downplaying brief respite and augur mods since you make it sound like those are somehow out of the ordinairy costs in a build while completely ignoring that a build that instead plays around armor and HP has the same or higher costs tied to modding, both in capacity and slots, while also using some of the augur mods for the stats they provide.

The bolded part is also wrong in combination with the underlined part. Since current shield gate is 1.3 second, any frame with 350 shields or lower after the patch will benefit more from the new mod than adding another augur mod, since the gate duration will be the same or better than 350 or lower max shields. Or did you completely miss that the new mod still allows for scaling values and not just 0.33 or 1.33 seconds depending on partial or full like the current system? So the same % stages applies with the mod as it does without.

 

[AegidiusF]

il y a une heure, SDGDen a dit :

is her partial shieldgate also going up? or only her "full" shieldgate? since im thinking i'd only have 1K shields regenerated when vulnerable which would give the max partial shieldgate of 2.5s, 

eh, we'll have to see. 

I don't know if her partial shield gate will be increased (I don't think so). They've only communicated about her full shield gate duration.

 

Le 28/09/2023 à 18:02, [DE]Taylor a dit :

Hildryn’s Passive is being buffed from 3s Shield Gating Duration to 3.5s Shield Gating Duration!

[deucich]

15 минут назад, (NSW)AegisFifi сказал:

I don't know if her partial shield gate will be increased (I don't think so). They've only communicated about her full shield gate duration.

Essentially, there won't be such a thing as partial shield gate 

В 28.09.2023 в 19:02, [DE]Taylor сказал:

Partially Depleted Shields do not have a separate Shield Gate Duration

So, her partial shield gate should go up to 3.5s as well. The question is how many shields do you need to reach it. Is it 3.5s at 1150 shields where other frames have 2.5s? Or is her cap  just somewhere higher on the graph? We'll see.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by deucich

[SneakyErvin]

11 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I don't know if her partial shield gate will be increased (I don't think so). They've only communicated about her full shield gate duration.

Considering how her passive works it seems like she will hit 3.5s of shield gate at 1150 shields (the cap to reach the new 2.5 second gate) no matter if her max shields are far higher or not. I think this is the case due to their wording of shield gate duration in general, where they say you'll need 325 shields on shield break to reach the old 1.3 seconds. It also seems to add up with the graph.

[AegidiusF]

il y a 31 minutes, deucich a dit :

Essentially, there won't be such a thing as partial shield gate 

Sorry, but I think you have misunderstood what they said. Here is the complete text :

Le 28/09/2023 à 18:02, [DE]Taylor a dit :

Part 2 - Partially Depleted Shields do not have a separate Shield Gate Duration.

Previously: shield breaks on Shields that were not fully regenerated offered 0.33 seconds of Shield Gating.

Now, Partially Depleted Shields will be treated with the same scaling values outlined above. For example, if you had a max Shield value of 1200, but your Shields were broken with only 350 available, you would receive ~1.3 seconds of Shield Gating!

With these changes, the more Shields you have and the faster they regenerate, the more you’ll get out of the Shield Gating system!

Partial shield gate won't have a separate duration means that the current constant value for partial shield gate will no more exist as a separate value : its duration will scale depending on the max shields you've got. The Dev Workshop itself says that there will be a partial shield gate. The only difference is that partial shield gate (shield gate that we got with partially depleted shields) can have a much higher duration than before (depending on the amount of shields when shield breaks).

So, the question about Hildryn's partial shield gate is about the minimum value of partial shield gate : 0.33s : will htis duration be higher for Hildryn ? I don't think so, because I have no element that says the contrary.

il y a 38 minutes, deucich a dit :

So, her partial shield gate should go up to 3.5s as well. The question is how many shields do you need to reach it. Is it 3.5s at 1150 shields where other frames have 2.5s? Or is her cap  just somewhere higher on the graph? We'll see.

Her minimal partial shield gate duration will be, in my opinion 0.33 s(it's only an personal opinion, I'm not sure at all), as it will be for every single frame. But, as said, the partial shield gate will scale and (as for any other frame) Hildryn can get more than 0.33s of partial shield gate depending on the amount of shields she has when shield breaks.

il y a 37 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :

Considering how her passive works it seems like she will hit 3.5s of shield gate at 1150 shields (the cap to reach the new 2.5 second gate) no matter if her max shields are far higher or not. I think this is the case due to their wording of shield gate duration in general, where they say you'll need 325 shields on shield break to reach the old 1.3 seconds. It also seems to add up with the graph.

Yes, I agree with you.

The question was a bout the minimum shield gate value : will it be increased for Hildryn or not ?
Exemple : If Hildryn, just after a shield break, regenerates only 10 shields (a miracle, one could say, based on how fast she can regen shields) and then she gets hit and shield breaks again : will she benefit from 0.83s of shield gate of only from 0.33s of shield gate ? I really don't know the answer, but I think (it's only an opinion, I'm not sure at all) that it will be 0.33s, as they said they were going to change the passive, that currently raises only the full shield gate duration (3s instead of 1.3s), but not the partial shield gate (that currently remains 0.33s).

[SneakyErvin]

22 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Yes, I agree with you.

The question was a bout the minimum shield gate value : will it be increased for Hildryn or not ?
Exemple : If Hildryn, just after a shield break, regenerates only 10 shields (a miracle, one could say, based on how fast she can regen shields) and then she gets hit and shield breaks again : will she benefit from 0.83s of shield gate of only from 0.33s of shield gate ? I really don't know the answer, but I think (it's only an opinion, I'm not sure at all) that it will be 0.33s, as they said they were going to change the passive, that currently raises only the full shield gate duration (3s instead of 1.3s), but not the partial shield gate (that currently remains 0.33s).

I think it will work like it does for everyone else when she is below 1150 since that would be most inline with the old passive aswell which didnt effect the partial gate value at all. Then when she hits 1150 she'll get 3.5 seconds while others get 2.5.

edit: And it will likely be insane on her given how easy it is to refil her shields to that point. Heck even just 2.5 sec is crazy good on her when she doesnt even have to fill it all. And then with the new recharge delay mods, oof!

Edited October 3, 2023 by SneakyErvin

[Jarriaga]

14 hours ago, FiveN9ne said:

Funny how it became exploitive at the moment they released the update info and the new mod

People like me have been calling it an exploit for years by simply observing the requirements and gear involved to accomplish the desired outcome. There is no universe, reality or train of thought in which "making a handicap item a near-immortality item by the introduction of an unrelated mechanic while all other items in the category of the handicap items remained as handicaps" was not an exploit.

Don't gaslight and pretend it's only deemed so now. Otherwise I wouldn't have proposed DE to correct the DDK and instead add the function as a mod A YEAR AGO.

The fact you willingly chose to throw in that reply after quoting the post in which I explicitly show for how long this has been seen as an exploit by many players doesn't help you if you don't want to stand out as a "disgruntled basement dweller." I won't allow you to label people white knights while pretending my point of view or reasoning is something that just came up because DE now aligns with what I had been observing, you hypocrite.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Jarriaga

[deucich]

1 час назад, (NSW)AegisFifi сказал:

Sorry, but I think you have misunderstood what they said. Here is the complete text :

As I understand, they aren't going to differentiate partial from full shield gate anymore. Shield gate window will be based on how many shields you managed to get before depletion, with nothing special triggering on hitting full capacity. Is it wrong?

1 час назад, (NSW)AegisFifi сказал:

Yes, I agree with you.

 

And why then are you agreeing with the same point but from a different post?

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by deucich

[----Legacy----]

8 hours ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

all the key does is make it easier and quicker to get back a full shield gate

Exactly the reason why the key becomes a free upgrade slot.

8 hours ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

Yea and lowering your shields is still a negative too and just like with neg impact

Yes, the detail being that both are oversights by the devs:

If shields were a desirable tool to survive (like in most games where their self regenerating nature and scarce healing items/drops) you can be sure that people wouldn't want less shields but the opposite instead.

Same for IPS status procs; if impact (and puncture) were both as desirable as slash people wouldn't see negative impact (and puncture in some cases) as a desirable stat, just like we wouldn't think about using the bandaid mods that turn impact procs into slash ones.

But for stuff like that the game needs some balance which is where warframe struggles the most and that's discussion for another topic.

8 hours ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

Why bother auguring you ask, honestly too much time on the forums. I really shouldnt be and even said I wasnt going to go further much earlier on yet here I am, I also really do like talking about the shield gate topic and the meta in general as I feel its important to understand exactly what it is and why it is cause without that understanding nothing will ever change.

Fair enough

8 hours ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

Theres two sides of the spectrum, theres the hardcore meta slaves who will only use the meta stuff then think they are somehow better than everyone else then theres the meta haters that will refuse to touch the meta and get upset when other players give any kind off advice.

Fun enough, "meta haters" are more likely to theorycraft and come up with new metas which then are followed by hardcore meta slaves, a whole social behavior which could be fun to analyze but i doubt this is the thread for it.

[AegidiusF]

il y a 44 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :

I think it will work like it does for everyone else when she is below 1150 since that would be most inline with the old passive aswell which didnt effect the partial gate value at all. Then when she hits 1150 she'll get 3.5 seconds while others get 2.5.

edit: And it will likely be insane on her given how easy it is to refil her shields to that point. Heck even just 2.5 sec is crazy good on her when she doesnt even have to fill it all. And then with the new recharge delay mods, oof!

I totally agree.

I was very surprised when they announced those shields regen delay buffs on mods : this kind of mod was exclusive to the Conclave. Of course, Gauss passive and Vazarin's Guardian Break also granted a shield regen delay reduction, but with those two Mods things will become crazy.

 

il y a 4 minutes, deucich a dit :

As I understand, they aren't going to differentiate partial from full shield gate anymore. Shield gate window will be based on how many shields you managed to get before depletion, with nothing special triggering on hitting full capacity. Is it wrong?

No, I don't think you are wrong. I was talking about the fact that there will still be a partial shield gate, but it will not be a separate value, but a scaling value, from a minimum (0.33s) to a max (2.5s or 3.5s for Hildryn). Previously, I was talking with the other player about the minimal value of her partial shield gate and how will it scale : will the minimal value be increased by 0.5s as the maximum value was increased ? Will it scale from 0.83s to 3.5s (which increases the partial shield gate value, when you compare to other frames) ? Will it scale from 0.33s to 3.5s ? will it scale from 0.33 to 2.5s and full shield gate will grant 3.5s ? We were talking about the way the buff they gave to the max shield gate duration for Hildryn could affect the whole scaling graph of her shield gate duration. And I have no answer to these questions.

 

il y a 13 minutes, deucich a dit :

And why then are you agreeing with the same point but from a different post?

That wasn't the same point. The point I don't agree with you is there will no more be a partial shield gate. Partial shield gate will still happen when partially recharged shields break, but its duration will scale. Full shiled gate is just when it has its full duration (depending on the max shields capacity). Perhaps it would be better to talk about full shield gate duration and partial shield gate duration. As Hildryn will get a buffed passive, we were talking about how it would change her partial duration of shield gate. My opinion is that her minimum value of shield gate will remain 0.33s and it will scale up to 3.5s (at 1150 shields).

[0_The_F00l]

I personally am looking forward to the change ,  more cause it has legitimised a borderline exploit within certain constraints and because it has given shields a better reason to be desired.

I never relied on the abusive shield gate strategy in the first state (just the ocassional OHKO avoidance) so this does not change much for me.