There should be a universal faction mod, at lower modifier of course

[Hexerin]

I would say the modifier should be 25%. This puts it below the normal faction mods (which are all 30%), making it so that those players who enjoy swapping their mod out on every mission are still getting superior effect even while using the normal mods (those that use Primed get more than double the effect at that sweet 55%).

It should still only affect the same factions that the traditional targeted mods affect (Corpus, Grineer, Infested, Corrupted). This way, you still have to use Sacrificial mods to boost against Sentient, which keeps their unique flavour alive. Additionally, this keeps those factions that don't have targeted mods at all, unaffected.

[crazywolfpusher]

No, I like the way it is now, I love having to plan ahead my loadout and having to swap between 4 factions every time I'm gonna play a mission.

Spoiler

Just joking. 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by crazywolfpusher

[Leqesai]

21 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

I would say the modifier should be 25%. This puts it below the normal faction mods (which are all 30%), making it so that those players who enjoy swapping their mod out on every mission are still getting superior effect even while using the normal mods (those that use Primed get more than double the effect at that sweet 55%).

It should still only affect the same factions that the traditional targeted mods affect (Corpus, Grineer, Infested, Corrupted). This way, you still have to use Sacrificial mods to boost against Sentient, which keeps their unique flavour alive. Additionally, this keeps those factions that don't have targeted mods at all, unaffected.

Honest question. Do people actually use faction mods outside of Grineer/Corrupted?

[Hexerin]

3 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Honest question. Do people actually use faction mods outside of Grineer/Corrupted?

I don't use them at all, because it's far too tedious to bother with. Hence why I wish there was a weaker, but generically applicable, version.

[BroDutt]

How about a void element mod? Void damage ignore faction resistance and can destroy Overguard on Eximus. 

You can add Faction mod to double dip it's damage. Too Powerful?

Edited October 15, 2023 by BroDutt

[Gamma745]

Don't we already have this? What you're asking is a generic damage boost that applies equally to every enemy. Isn't that practically Serration, Hornet Strike, and the like? Are you asking for more?

[Tiltskillet]

12 minutes ago, Gamma745 said:

Don't we already have this? What you're asking is a generic damage boost that applies equally to every enemy. Isn't that practically Serration, Hornet Strike, and the like? Are you asking for more?

Not exactly. Putting aside that faction damage is a separate multiplicative layer than Serration, etc., the  main interesting difference to me is that damage procs benefit twice from faction bonuses.

I often think it would be better to delete dedicated faction mods than consolidate them.  But if that were to happen I'd like them to be replaced by a universal DoT bonus mod, with (very roughly) an equivalent effect on damage procs.

[Voltage]

We already have that and it's a Damage Blessing or Roar.

[Trogre]

I've been thinking about these mods as well.  Here's my thoughts:

Pain in the A** to swap out every mission.  A lot of my gameplay is random missions.  random factions.  Having to go see what the mission is then drop back out and go to my Armoury to swap is tedious as best and honestly, sometime I forget to do it and instantly regret it. Load outs would be an option if we either had enough, or they were easier to pick or customize from navigation.  I think an easy soultion would be to have a option like they have for loadouts in navigation that would take us the armoury and then once we exit return us to navigation.

I thought about the option of making them Exilus mods, but doesn't fix the P.I.T.A part of having to swap them all the time. 

Thought about not using them at all.  That is a lot of lost damage though as they are multiplicative.

Still thinking about it and trying to figure out a good solution.  The lower universal is an interesting idea, but then again, it's not truly a faction mod at that point.  But I understand the intent behind it, and agree that would be a fair way to compromise, though I think the damage boost would probably be lower to accommodate.

Just my  two cents. 

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

There is a universal fraction mods, it's called Seration, Pressure Point, Hornet Strike.

[Qriist]

16 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I often think it would be better to delete dedicated faction mods than consolidate them.  But if that were to happen I'd like them to be replaced by a universal DoT bonus mod, with (very roughly) an equivalent effect on damage procs.

Heyyy is that a conversation callback? :D

 

 

  For the benefit of everyone else:

On 2023-07-10 at 2:44 AM, Qriist said:

Been chewing on this for a while.

It appears to me most people like the faction mods primarily for buffing the armor-bypassing Bleed effect. The upfront damage is almost never discussed.

What about rolling all of the various faction mods up into a single faction-agnostic status effect booster? This mod concept already exists, albeit restricted to polearms: 

While this mod does buff the frontend damage, the backend goes nuts thanks to the second ability line. It's very good, almost more than you'd expect.

Using Boreal's Contempt as a basis, and keeping in mind that my proposed changes weakens upfront damage, I think +60% status damage for the normal version and +110% for the primed version would be a good starting place for this effect. 

Aside from unifying the faction mods in a way that I think is strong but not OP, this idea has the additional advantage of inadvertently addressing the lack of mods for newer factions (ie, Sentinent and Narmer). DE would then be free to add as many factions as they desire without severly crippling player effectiveness.

 

As an aside, the faction mods already have excellent (punchy!) names we should keep, so the 16 variations of "Bane/Cleanse/Expel/Smite of Corpus/Grineer/Infested/Corrupted" can be readily renamed into a simple "Bane/Cleanse/Expel/Smite".

  

On 2023-07-10 at 3:42 AM, Tiltskillet said:

If you just wanted to preserve their current DoT-only power level, that's ( 1.3 * 1.3 ) = 69% regular, and ( 1.55 * 1.55 ) = ~140% primed.  It sounds like you think they should be stronger for that purpose than now.  If so, you're going too low.

I don't know how they should be balanced.  The argument could be made that the loss in upfront damage is made up for by being faction-agnostic, especially now that we're dealing with  Sentients, Thrax, Dax, etc mixed in to other enemies a fair amount of the time, and it looks like it'll keep going that direction.

 

On 2023-07-10 at 11:47 AM, Qriist said:

So, anyways, PPP + my initial 110% "Primed Smite DOT" calculates out to have higher Bleed ticks than PPP + unPrimed Smite Grineer, but lower Bleed ticks than PPP+PSG.

That tick value falls slightly above halfway between the two versions. Is that high enough to justify being faction-agnostic? I'd probably argue yes, but as I said before I'm totally open to tweaks.

Interesting side note, if faction mods go away then the only source of +faction damage in the equation would be Roar.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Qriist

[(PSN)ApoX95]

I don't think such a mod is even needed at all.

If I use one of those Banes then it's usually just for corrupted and I don't even bother switching it out even If I play a non fissure/void mission because

A: infested are so weak that they don't even need one and

B: same kinda applies with corpus cause they don't really have any armor. 

I know that people usually be like 'ughh I don't wanna switch then out every mission' but it's not like you even have to do that. just keep the one equipped that you 'struggle the most with' if at all, it's not like the weapon becomes unusable against other factions just because you have the wrong bane equipped. And If you try to go level cap or something then you can always prepare anyway for *that* specific mission, so you'll go over your loadout regardless and tweak some things if needed.

I feel like some sort of 'universal bane mod' would do more harm than it would help in the current system, especially If it's only 5% weaker 

So to sum it up I guess: I disagree and don't think that we need such mods

 

[Hexerin]

8 hours ago, Voltage said:

We already have that and it's a Damage Blessing or Roar.

You apparently didn't even read the title. "Mod" was specifically stated, and is the topic of this thread.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

1 minute ago, Hexerin said:

You apparently didn't even read the title. "Mod" was specifically stated, and is the topic of this thread.

I mean they are right, you said mod but any damage mod for example serration is a true example does set damage to any faction, faction mods do damage to said faction so the only alternative to do increased damage to all factions indeed would be roar, eclipse, damage blessing.

[Voltage]

3 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

You apparently didn't even read the title. "Mod" was specifically stated, and is the topic of this thread.

I read the topic. Universal final damage multipliers are already in the game. A specific mod for universal faction damage is just another damage mod. It's already bad enough that faction damage is a separate mod with a separate multiplier in the first place.

Hot take, but all +damage sources should apply the same relative bonus. Primed Chamber, Galvanized Aptitude, Faction Damage, Serration, etc. It's long overdue.

Modding is just a game of multiplication to reduce diminishing returns and maximize multipliers. Universal Faction mods aren't interesting, they are just for extremely lazy players in builds.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Voltage

[Hexerin]

5 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Hot take, but all +damage sources should apply the same relative bonus. Primed Chamber, Galvanized Aptitude, Faction Damage, Serration, etc. It's long overdue.

Faction damage is the only thing you listed there that is a different bonus. The other three are all additive with each other. Well, are supposed to be anyways. Galvanized Aptitude (and its equivalents on the other weapon classes) is multiplicative on some weapons due to a long-standing bug that DE has never fixed.

[Voltage]

6 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Faction damage is the only thing you listed there that is a different bonus. The other three are all additive with each other. Well, are supposed to be anyways. Galvanized Aptitude (and its equivalents on the other weapon classes) is multiplicative on some weapons due to a long-standing bug that DE has never fixed.

Primed Chamber is multiplicative to Serration. Faction Damage is multiplicative to Serration and is not the same multiplier as Primed Chamber. I suggest you look through the plethora of multipliers in Warframe as I only listed a couple that apply to modding a primary (sniper in the case of Primed/Charged Chamber):

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage

DE hasn't fixed GunCO for years and they likely won't any time soon. It is definitely a consideration and point of truth if it's not being changed.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Voltage

[Hexerin]

5 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Primed Chamber is multiplicative to Serration.

Have you ever actually tested that yourself? Cause I have, and it's absolutely not.

[Voltage]

18 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Have you ever actually tested that yourself? Cause I have, and it's absolutely not.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Calculating_Bonuses#Multiplicative_Stacking

It is a separate multiplier. So is Lasting Purity and Eclipse. This doesn't even get into headshots, how Faction Damage interacts with DoT, Damage Vulnerability, and all sorts of other mechanics and passives.

I will still stick with my take that a Universal Faction Damage mod is just for lazy players. Faction Damage mods are enough already with what goes on in modding. You can already be lazy as-is and just leave Primed Grineer Damage slotted and only swap in edge-cases. In general content, it hardly matters.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Voltage

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

25 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Have you ever actually tested that yourself? Cause I have, and it's absolutely not.

I have and it definitely is. It's a final damage multiplier from what I've seen.

[Hexerin]

21 minutes ago, Voltage said:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Calculating_Bonuses#Multiplicative_Stacking

It is a separate multiplier. So is Lasting Purity and Eclipse. This doesn't even get into headshots, how Faction Damage interacts with DoT, Damage Vulnerability, and all sorts of other mechanics and passives.

I will still stick with my take that a Universal Faction Damage mod is just for lazy players. Faction Damage mods are enough already with what goes on in modding. You can already be lazy as-is and just leave Primed Grineer Damage slotted and only swap in edge-cases. In general content, it hardly matters.

10 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

I have and it definitely is. It's a final damage multiplier from what I've seen.

So I was just recording some video to show you that it's not (because it wasn't multiplying damage, it was adding in my previous test), and it's actually behaving as a multiplier now. So apparently, I encountered a bug in the simulacrum before. I wonder what the cause was, and if it's reproducible reliably...

[Voltage]

Just now, Hexerin said:

So I was just recording some video to show you that it's not (because it wasn't multiplying damage, it was adding in my previous test), and it's actually behaving as a multiplier now. So apparently, I encountered a bug in the simulacrum before. I wonder what the cause was, and if it's reproducible reliably...

It happens. The Simulacrum has issues all the time. Don't sweat it.