Dagath Survivability

[MaleniaBladeofMiquella]

So I've messed around with Dagath for quite a bit and I have to say, I'm disappointed. I adore her design, but I'm the type of person who says "Hmm, what frame do I want to use today"and then use the frame I decide on for almost the entire session. I prefer to use all rounder frames who can do most content rather than swap frames when going from Mid/High end to low end content. But it seems like Dagath struggles with it. Her health tank build is pretty bad on steel path because she doesn't have anything to support it (IE: DR, high armor,etc) and her shield gate build seems terrible for lower density non steel path missions like the Zariman exterm I do for orbiter decorations, as well as being susceptible to toxin procs in any mission. Of course she does still "work" but it just doesn't feel very comfortable for content I'm going to be doing every day. Maybe I'm just weird, but I would love to see a bit more consistency added to her survivability.

[German]

Citrine's 1 on her + Health Conversion + Arcane Blessing. Synergizes well with her passive too.

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

She has another problem, energy.

Being a pure caster frame that's an issue.

With regards to the topic, you have a couple of sources of extra lives.  At least one through companions, then her 3 and rolling guard+shield gate.  Using the new mod helps a lot.

Seems to be a bit polarising this frame. 

[SDGDen]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Hellsteeth30 said:

She has another problem, energy.

Being a pure caster frame that's an issue.

With regards to the topic, you have a couple of sources of extra lives.  At least one through companions, then her 3 and rolling guard+shield gate.  Using the new mod helps a lot.

Seems to be a bit polarising this frame. 

i dont really have any issues with energy, but i'm using energize and steadfast (although with 100% efficiency). im also running primed flow to best utilize the massive energy gain per orb when energize or her passive triggers (or both!) 

i did replace her 4 with terrify though which also somewhat helps because terrify is simply a much better armor strip.

the good thing is her 3 is free once active, her 1 isnt that expensive for how many enemies it hits and for how much damage (plus guaranteed viral procs). 

her 1 also has punch-through, which can get quite interesting with grouping abilities (but then you'd have to use her 4 for armor strip which requires 300% power strength for a full strip)

 

her two big issues outside of obviously "she's a caster frame so she's comparatively energy hungry" are her lack of survivability (her only real survivability is a way to prevent death once every 25 seconds) and her mediocre built-in armor strip. she's an offensive caster through and through. 

her survivability is fixed a bit by her 1 causing a slow effect (Which i stack with creeping terrify). when stripped with terrify, her 1 can generally kill level 180 steel path corrupted heavy gunners as long as they have doom applied, and what little survives gets doom spread to them which then gives you incredible crit damage from grave spirit. 

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

20 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

i dont really have any issues with energy, but i'm using energize and steadfast (although with 100% efficiency). im also running primed flow to best utilize the massive energy gain per orb when energize or her passive triggers (or both!) 

Do you find energize is still needed along with her passive? Genuinely curious as she's still cooking.

Edited October 19, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[SDGDen]

13 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Do you find energize is still needed along with her passive? Genuinely curious as she's still cooking.

initially i was using grace and avenger (avenger works REALLY well with grave spirit), and that worked pretty well in lower level missions with aquablades subsumed instead of terrify. the trouble is that in higher-tier content i find myself recasting terrify quite often and i'm thus spending more energy per kill, so i added energize to help with that extra drain.

i think if you run 150% efficiency you can EASILY run her without energize especially if you play smart around arcane steadfast (use your free casts to cast your expensive powers) even if you put a better armor strip like terrify on her.  

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

5 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

initially i was using grace and avenger (avenger works REALLY well with grave spirit), and that worked pretty well in lower level missions with aquablades subsumed instead of terrify. the trouble is that in higher-tier content i find myself recasting terrify quite often and i'm thus spending more energy per kill, so i added energize to help with that extra drain.

i think if you run 150% efficiency you can EASILY run her without energize especially if you play smart around arcane steadfast (use your free casts to cast your expensive powers) even if you put a better armor strip like terrify on her.  

Sounds good thanks 👍

[Skoomaseller]

I actually found surviving as Dagath in higher level content to be... ok!

The aura slot matches brief respite (and only brief respite lol).

Her 1 slows + staggers enemies.

Equilibrium is a good mod to have on her for energy upkeep. I think it also synergizes with her passive. I think.

Slot in Rolling Guard. Cast Doom (2), Cast Wyrd Scythes (1), cast Rakhali's Cavalry (4). Watch everything die. 

Ensure her 3 is up at all times as a failsafe. Also from nice crit damage. Mod a bit of duration on her (using Primed Continuity + Augur Message, -duration from Transient Fortitude, still good enough) to stay immortal for a bit longer.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[trst]

But most frames already don't have a built in synergy like that and need to get it from the rest of your build.

If you do want to use something she'd specifically synergize with look at orb generation paired with mods like Equilibrium or Quick Thinking. Take a subsumable that generates orbs like Lycath's Hunt, Fractured Blast, Spectrorage (w/augment), or Dispensary. There's also companion effects with Synth Deconstruct or Dethcube's Energy Generator. And of course there's Arcanes like Energize or Blessing which further synergize with it all.

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

Brozime came out with a build using the full umbral set, with adaptation and Arcane Blessing.  Might be worth a go.

He's also right about Doom's range, it's way too short even modded.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Please just… accept death

That’s not a thing I expect to say, but this is a weird time we live in when in a third person shooter, the idea of dying is the outlier. The game’s trying to kill you, it’s part of the fundamental identity of a Third Person Shooter

[Tiltskillet]

I don't have her yet, but you might check out https://youtu.be/xyaZh3OzUJs?si=3RdfppQglToQUbgk

He has a Catalyzed shieldgate build and a shield hp/regen build.  Yeah, toxin will still be an issue, so neither of those may work for you.  

[Leqesai]

From my few hours with her I feel like she is aptly suited for swapping in and out of operator for survivability. She basically has upkeep phase which is when the 3 is useful, the ZZZ mode when the 3 is on cooldown. I just jump into operator when the cooldown starts and zoink enemies with super powered madurai blasts for 30 seconds then swap back to dagath. 

Works okay. Only real problem I have with her is doom kind of sucks and is great at the same time. Her 4 is massively slow to cast too so cast speed is pretty much mandatory.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

4 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Please just… accept death

That’s not a thing I expect to say, but this is a weird time we live in when in a third person shooter, the idea of dying is the outlier. The game’s trying to kill you, it’s part of the fundamental identity of a Third Person Shooter

Noone plays a game and wants to die.

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Noone plays a game and wants to die.

You hear that sound, Joyless?

That’s the sound of my eyes rolling so hard they fell out of my head and onto the ground, and I’m now typing this while blind.

Good thing this game lets me build my loadout in such a way I can finish a mission standing around pressing a few buttons every so often. Possibly using a build of yours, thanks for that.

Funnily enough though, that’s not typically how I play or why I boot up a buildcrafting Third Person Shooter with a bonkers movement system and huge variety of ways to play, and standing around cookie-clicking is not the standard I’d expect. And there’s a fundamental difference between how you and I play. Something intrinsic to any sort of game designed around relying on the player to step in and actually play. Something that, you may think you’d be better off without, but you miss it when it’s gone but can’t quite put your finger on why

Edited October 20, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[ReddyDisco]

Shield gating i found is the best way to keep her alive subsuming condemn or pillage.

you can also go non subsume way with catalysing shields, she's one of the new frames where not a single ability sems bad or worth replacing, which is amazing.

[Aruquae]

6 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Funnily enough though, that’s not typically how I play or why I boot up a buildcrafting Third Person Shooter with a bonkers movement system and huge variety of ways to play, and standing around cookie-clicking is not the standard I’d expect. And there’s a fundamental difference between how you and I play. Something intrinsic to any sort of game designed around relying on the player to step in and actually play. Something that, you may think you’d be better off without, but you miss it when it’s gone but can’t quite put your finger on why

Don’t know why, but I immediately thought of Apex when you said that. Probably movement+death. You’re also right in the sense that dying in Warframe is natural (while quite frowned on), but I like the idea of conquering death. My friend constantly dies in level 40 and above. We’re fine with it, he’s learning. It’s also quite satisfying being on the brink of death, then getting all the health back (or just not dying that works too). 

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

Maybe the "fear" of death stems from the olden days where revives cost plat.

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

23 minutes ago, Malikili said:

Don’t know why, but I immediately thought of Apex when you said that. Probably movement+death. You’re also right in the sense that dying in Warframe is natural (while quite frowned on), but I like the idea of conquering death. My friend constantly dies in level 40 and above. We’re fine with it, he’s learning. It’s also quite satisfying being on the brink of death, then getting all the health back (or just not dying that works too). 

Yes. People aren’t going to get that “Made it!!” moment, where things take a nosedive and then it’s through playing that it’s recovered, if they keep running away from anything that resembles the scenario.

Personally I like that there are options if I really did lose my eyeballs yet still wanted to play, and this game can be pretty accessible. But it certainly has systems that get frowned upon that are able to provide an alternative experience to just standing around in an AFK sim and enable a whole other side to this game, involving the entire rest of the ways we can make builds and loadouts (which incidentally influences perceived value of rewards earned through play)

edit: And then for someone who treats death as a possible outcome for bad play instead of something to be avoided in the Orbiter instead of the mission, who’s also fine with sometimes building to stand around being a demi-god, that’s every single piece of equipment we can use and every single build we can make and every combination we could want, all depending on what someone feels like doing (and every mission combination for every build and loadout; I feel like missions aren’t considered as much as they should be regarding the impact they have)

Edited October 20, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[Aruquae]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

And then for someone who treats death as a possible outcome for bad play

I admit, I’m guilty of doing that when it comes to building and using frames. Usually when I die with a frame built to tank (or some sort of survival mechanic), I’m like “Aight this isn’t tanky,” or “Dang I suck with this frame” (looking at you Limbo) then I alter builds and sort of adapt to their play style. 

 

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

that’s every single piece of equipment we can use and every single build we can make and every combination we could want, all depending on what someone feels like doing

There’s just something about building frames and weapons and seeing how it turns out. Experimenting is half the fun. Dying is also a part of the experience

Trial and error, trial and error 

[(NSW)Greybones]

41 minutes ago, Malikili said:

I admit, I’m guilty of doing that when it comes to building and using frames. Usually when I die with a frame built to tank (or some sort of survival mechanic), I’m like “Aight this isn’t tanky,” or “Dang I suck with this frame” (looking at you Limbo) then I alter builds and sort of adapt to their play style. 

I find it kind of tricky at times to identify whether it’s the frame or me or my build or whether I’m doing something in the mission wrong (though often missions are pretty straightforward, though Mobile Defense took some practice), because even beyond the Frame we’ve got things like how our schools can influence our survival or how our weapons and how their build can influence the threat level (and thus our survival). Way easier to get a feel from the modless start in like a level 30 mission and go from there because a lot fewer variables to juggle while there’s still some gameplay to be had and innate attributes get a chance to have their strengths and weaknesses, but ultimately after a bit of that at the very start I’m at a place where I can go “I feel like playing like this in this content” and then build for that and that tends to be good enough for me (though I sometimes get blindsided by how badly I’ve misjudged a build for a mission/loadout/playstyle I’m going for)

41 minutes ago, Malikili said:

There’s just something about building frames and weapons and seeing how it turns out. Experimenting is half the fun. Dying is also a part of the experience

Trial and error, trial and error 

Agreed. I used to be like “Gosh, I wish I could use a favourite build, but I’m too busy focusing on the grind”. Nowadays I just throw on whatever and jump into whatever mission and see how I fare; sometimes some surprisingly fun scenarios come through when I wasn’t considering them in my build/mission combo, and things like modifiers get a chance to do their thing

I got my ass absolutely handed to me when I started making builds aligned with the content and stopped stressing over how scary death is, and learning how to actually build for that sweet spot of Not Too Hard, Not Too Easy, Just Right With Extra Customisation Options involved (and still involves) a lot of experimentation which ended up keeping me around for years now and I just mix up a build between missions sometimes because I can

edit: And then because I know where that Sweet Spot is, I can adjust for easier or harder according to how I feel and not be confused when there’s unexpected difficulty spikes or whatever

Edited October 20, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[Aruquae]

52 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

got my ass absolutely handed to me when I started making builds aligned with the content and stopped stressing over how scary death is, and learning how to actually build for that sweet spot of Not Too Hard, Not Too Easy, Just Right With Extra Customisation Options involved (and still involves) a lot of experimentation which ended up keeping me around for years now and I just mix up a build between missions sometimes because I can

Indeed, sometimes when I try and do the most efficient strat for a mission, it’s just not fitting for your play style. I can’t with Limbo’s abilities even though his hat… his beautiful hat, but then when I subsumed his 1 onto Voruna for a meme build… it actually worked..? That was odd. 

 

54 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Agreed. I used to be like “Gosh, I wish I could use a favourite build, but I’m too busy focusing on the grind”. Nowadays I just throw on whatever and jump into whatever mission and see how I fare; sometimes some surprisingly fun scenarios come through when I wasn’t considering them in my build/mission combo, and things like modifiers get a chance to do their thing

Agreed, efficiency isn’t always the most fun strat. Half the challenge is using what you want and making it work. Modifiers in nodes also work, things like no shield mode, and death detonation mode add a certain spice to the gameplay, like an exotic flavor. 

 

57 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

edit: And then because I know where that Sweet Spot is, I can adjust for easier or harder according to how I feel and not be confused when there’s unexpected difficulty spikes or whatever

In the end, this is the true challenge isn’t it? What Mastery Rank was supposed to mean: actually mastering you’re loadout. To do that, knowing the strengths and weaknesses are essential.
You know, this convo has nothing to do with the thread (dang it, going off topic again), but it’s quite a good read.

[(NSW)Greybones]

7 hours ago, Malikili said:

Indeed, sometimes when I try and do the most efficient strat for a mission, it’s just not fitting for your play style. I can’t with Limbo’s abilities even though his hat… his beautiful hat, but then when I subsumed his 1 onto Voruna for a meme build… it actually worked..? That was odd. 

 

Agreed, efficiency isn’t always the most fun strat. Half the challenge is using what you want and making it work. Modifiers in nodes also work, things like no shield mode, and death detonation mode add a certain spice to the gameplay, like an exotic flavor. 

 

In the end, this is the true challenge isn’t it? What Mastery Rank was supposed to mean: actually mastering you’re loadout. To do that, knowing the strengths and weaknesses are essential.
You know, this convo has nothing to do with the thread (dang it, going off topic again), but it’s quite a good read.

I think it’s just nice to talk to someone about the other side to this game, and I end up rambling on about something that took me hundreds of hours to identify that suddenly made so much seemingly-confusing game design make sense (like why levels are the way they are and why it felt like I was running out of options to use the longer I played) and turned the game back into a game. I get the fun behind solving for efficiency (it’s not far removed from just experimenting in general so the journey has some similarities) and that’s what initially kept me going for the first few hundred hours, but I wouldn’t say the result is necessarily conducive to enjoyable extended play (though can be fine for an every-so-often thing)

I was nice to chat, agreed. I’ll see you around

Edited October 20, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones