The duality of DE and bug fixing

[Waeleto]

Now don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to attack DE and i know that programming and coding are very hard but i just want to point out this one thing
The helminth charger and helios "bugs" made 2 useless companions that didn't see the light of day in YEARS fun and viable for the first time in a long time but it was IMMEDIATELY nerfed very hard, it didn't even last a week BUT a bug that existed for year with excalibur umbra that made this version of him nearly unplayable is deemed "unworthy" of fixing because it's too much work and too much time, now i wouldn't be writing this if we got an answer that the umbra/helminth bug would EVENTUALLY be fixed but all we got is "is it worth?" ...

[VibingCat]

Also RIP Exodia Contagion and Telos Boltor, while dozens of known bugs persist.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

There's already a designated "c'mon fix bug" thread lol. 

[Numerounius]

15 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

Now don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to attack DE and i know that programming and coding are very hard but i just want to point out this one thing
The helminth charger and helios "bugs" made 2 useless companions that didn't see the light of day in YEARS fun and viable for the first time in a long time but it was IMMEDIATELY nerfed very hard, it didn't even last a week BUT a bug that existed for year with excalibur umbra that made this version of him nearly unplayable is deemed "unworthy" of fixing because it's too much work and too much time, now i wouldn't be writing this if we got an answer that the umbra/helminth bug would EVENTUALLY be fixed but all we got is "is it worth?" ...

You should have seen the DECONSTRUCTOR MELEE MODDING CHANGES: that were made and the reactions to it. They fumbled that hard with their "explanation" being the set mods didn't work with the melee companion weapon despite tons of other mods that didn't work with companion weapons in the same boat yet still only decided to hard remove the set mods since they were useful and provided a net benefit to a build rather than all that didn't work. And they still went through with it even though they made a dev post about it before implementing it.

As for actually fixing the bugs, I might as well be typing this while being clipped in a bugged excavator hitbox since that still isn't fixed. There is another post that talks about that specific bug you are mentioning and why it has not been fixed. Which I have provided my thoughts on the bug reporting and cadence of fixing them with the big issue being that it takes way too long to start the process on many of the smaller bugs and for the more major ones they need to actively be responding to rather than just forcing people to find ways of getting around the forum spamming rules.

 

10 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

RIP Exodia Contagion

It is not dead whatsoever, it can still kill the majority of content presented to it.

[Waeleto]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

There's already a designated "c'mon fix bug" thread lol. 

This is different from any other bug threads or umbra specific bug threads, i'm discussing the fact that we LITERALLY got an answer to this bug that could mean it won't ever be fixed 

[VibingCat]

14 minutes ago, XHADgaming said:

 

 

It is not dead whatsoever, it can still kill the majority of content presented to it.

I know, except acolytes in one hit.

Edited October 26, 2023 by VibingCat

[SneakyErvin]

I dont think there is any duality in it. Helios and Charger bugs were noticed fast and didnt require any coding, so were simple to fix quickly. Plus DE have probably learned somewhat from the past that unintended mechanics should be fixed quickly before people claim them to be intended features and then cry nerf when they get fixed. As someone mentioned in another thread, this is all really just triage, or if we put it into perspective with more regular things, common sense.

People need to consider which bugs affect the most of the player base. Those are obviously the most logical to fix. And since it is a game that constantly gets new updates, bugs that affect a wider part of the player base always pops up, leaving more specific/limited bugs unattended since they have less priority. Now if this was a utopian game where new bugs never get introduced then eventually the specific bugs would get fixed since they'd eventually get to it. But that just isnt how updates in a live service game works, since there will always be new bugs with a higher priority, just as there will be new bugs that end up to the pile "we'll get to them when we get to them" since their priority is low and the affect of them among the playerbase isnt wide enough.

I bet people will go into meltdown when the upcoming code related fix for overshields and the interaction with shield gate duration will go live even though it has been stated as a bug since the update.

[Pakaku]

Fixing one or two companion bugs, which can be used with any warframe, is a lot less work than apparently having to fix, and presumably bug-test, every Helminth ability in the list for exactly one warframe. I’m also guessing said bug doesn’t affect normal Excalibur…

Edited October 26, 2023 by Pakaku

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, VibingCat said:

Also RIP Exodia Contagion

Have you actually tested it or you are just believing what you have read in the internet?

Because I assure you, there is literally zero change to Contagion heavy slide build. Actually my new dmg record is after the supposed change.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, VibingCat said:

Also RIP Exodia Contagion and Telos Boltor, while dozens of known bugs persist.

Don't know about Contagion, but Telos Boltor?   C'mon, you can come up with far better examples than that,. :P  

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Plus DE have probably learned somewhat from the past that unintended mechanics should be fixed quickly before people claim them to be intended features and then cry nerf when they get fixed.

Haha, they've learned it "somewhat" multiple times, I'm sure.  But have they learned it, full stop? Nope.  Telos Boltor bug was nonsensical, powerful, and well-advertised, and exploited ruthlessly for months.   At least it wasn't years, I guess.

[VibingCat]

41 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Don't know about Contagion, but Telos Boltor?   C'mon, you can come up with far better examples than that,. :P  

It literally got ten times weaker since the bug with Galvanized Aptitude was fixed lol. I miss that unintended nonsense, sorry. At least I'm glad I pushed it to level cap before it was too late.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

2 hours ago, Waeleto said:

Now don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to attack DE and i know that programming and coding are very hard but i just want to point out this one thing
The helminth charger and helios "bugs" made 2 useless companions that didn't see the light of day in YEARS fun and viable for the first time in a long time but it was IMMEDIATELY nerfed very hard, it didn't even last a week BUT a bug that existed for year with excalibur umbra that made this version of him nearly unplayable is deemed "unworthy" of fixing because it's too much work and too much time, now i wouldn't be writing this if we got an answer that the umbra/helminth bug would EVENTUALLY be fixed but all we got is "is it worth?" ...

Take yourself out of your shoes and into those of the ones you are discussing for a moment. DE has a forum section for bugs and fixes that will forever be lit with notifications. At each update, they then list a very, very, very ,VERY long list of all of the fixes, changes, holds and explanations of those they were able to address. Some of those are old and some new. More importantly, DE even often describes why and how an issue was fixed or a change is made. 

Now, from that perspective, do you honestly think a bug is dismissed simply because you really want it to be fixed and the devs say it cannot? Or, do you think it's because the analyst of the bug resulted in a need that is currently too great, costly or detrimental to operations that it was decided to set it aside? 

[(NSW)jhj82]

These 2 interactions were hardly game breaking ... don't know why they were patched. DE should realize doing this (being anti-fun) keeps players from enjoying anything they invest into. Helminth Charger has nothing going for it..it's 2 precepts are terrible (if proboscis pulled in a group of enemies it would be x1000 better) and the charge should deal a  % of damage not tickle enemies. The Helios nerf makes no sense. At least leave some of these active for a few months to see if player usage goes way up (like pre-nerf wukong) and if they don't (because Smeeta/Panzer exist) then leave them as/is. 

 

[Zimzala]

I get that inquisitive minds crave data, I have an inquisitive mind, people hate me because I question everything.

I would love to see some of the inner workings and decision making for WF and many other games and code bases.

However, that is not reality.

The reality is, none of us are entitled to any information, at all.

Play the game, or don't.

The entire idea that the players must be informed of plans and whatnot is simply a false premise.

So sure, I would love to have people actually tell me what's happening with any number of products, computers games are only a portion of that.

But there is no onus on any company to reveal it's plans, period.

And, if you follow the history closely, game companies can no longer say ANYTHING about ANYTHING without the pedantic gaming community attacking them for it.

So, why should they even bother? 

Would you want to come into work everyday with a bunch of ranting messages telling you that you suck at your job because you won't fix a bug that has no real ROI when you could be making things to make the company more profitable?

But loud, angry, underinformed and PvP oriented gamers think that whatever they want must be delivered, or 'else'.

Here, they even try and claim a small bug they don't like drives players away in droves, when we know darn well it's not true, just inflated hyperbole, because DE actually uses real player numbers to make choices. We see them make changes, for example, when players at scale react poorly to a change ... not 'on the forums' but the actual numbers.

So funny to watch, but I really feel sad for modern game developers that have to deal with their 'customers'.

Next on As The Hamster Wheel Turns, the one poster that always brings up that one clipping issue will post...

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Haha, they've learned it "somewhat" multiple times, I'm sure.  But have they learned it, full stop? Nope.  Telos Boltor bug was nonsensical, powerful, and well-advertised, and exploited ruthlessly for months.   At least it wasn't years, I guess.

But that again comes down to how the bug can be solved. The two recent changes were just scripts, while I'm not sure if Telos Boltor missed a cert and had to wait for the next due to code changes. Certs are either limited for them or each of them costs. So packing as much as possible for each is probably what they aim for. So if something that needs it misses the deadline it has to wait for the next. Which is a drawback we've had to suffer on PC ever since crossplay was enabled.