Why Doesn't Simaris re-sell all Login Rewards After Obtaining?

[ricuse7]

The Items you can get a single time in the game and never ever again, are the following
Primed Fury, Primed Shred, Primed Sure Footed, and Primed Vigor.
If you sell them, They're gone for good
If you max them out, You can't downgrade them
If you were unlucky enough to trade them away prior to Hotfix 19.5.7 They're gone permanently for you.

A combination of Baro and Simaris have all of the The Daily Tribute system within his store except for these four Select Items, Why are these excluded.
Every other Item in the whole of the Daily Tribute system is available.
There are other One time obtain Items after finishing a quest that are similar to these, that you can buy from Simaris as well. The Umbral, And Sacrificial mods...

Why havn't these come back as re-purchasable in Simaris's shop?
Is there a technical, or logistical, reason I'm not aware of that is preventing this?

[0_The_F00l]

While I don't particularly have a problem with it being in simaris.

Pretty sure you cant lose them , and if you do support can return it to you.

The reason is simpler than technical issues,  it's to build FOMO.

[PollexMessier]

They probably don't want players bypassing the daily login requirements through trade. But then, they could just make those particular mods untradable.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

if they do give them to Simaris, they won't be cheap, and they won't be tradeable. plus one could argue Primed Mods belong with Baro, but again, they'd cost way more than other Primed mods and wouldn't be tradeable to keep it fair to those who got theirs through logins.

I think both players and DE realise that putting Primed Mods behind logins was a mistake in the long run. 

[(PSN)Unstar]

12 hours ago, ricuse7 said:

Why havn't these come back as re-purchasable in Simaris's shop?
Is there a technical, or logistical, reason I'm not aware of that is preventing this?

Since the login reward mods are tradeable, it seems fairly safe to assume that the reason you can't buy more of them is so these items keep their status as login rewards.  If you could buy more of them, then you could trade them away to other players, which would bypass the whole login reward thing.

That said, you do bring up some reasonable points about the downsides to not being able to re-purchase them.  If I were a designer given this problem to tackle, I think a clean solution would be to make all 4 of these mods untradeable (like the default Tennokai mod) and then allow players to re-purchase copies at Simaris.  Thus the login reward system stays intact, and the players who have reached that point can do whatever they want with their personal infinite supply of primed mods.

Since these mods aren't tradable, my only guess as to why they aren't available at Simaris is to preserve the consequences of trading these mods (for those who did that before the mods were made untradable).  I can see how if players were able to simply repurchase these mods after having made a tidy sum trading them away, that could be seen as unfair for both players involved in the trade.  The player who traded it away gets to keep the (likely high amount of) platinum, while the player who traded for it is simply out that big amount of platinum.  That's fertile ground for some hard feelings and resentment.

Now, is that more important than letting all the other players have a few copies of the mods at varying levels?  Opinions will vary.

Edited January 3 by (PSN)Unstar
i got it wrong!

[Leqesai]

30 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Since the login reward mods are tradeable, it seems fairly safe to assume that the reason you can't buy more of them is so these items keep their status as login rewards.  If you could buy more of them, then you could trade them away to other players, which would bypass the whole login reward thing.

That said, you do bring up some reasonable points about the downsides to not being able to re-purchase them.  If I were a designer given this problem to tackle, I think a clean solution would be to make all 4 of these mods untradeable (like the default Tennokai mod) and then allow players to re-purchase copies at Simaris.  Thus the login reward system stays intact, and the players who have reached that point can do whatever they want with their personal infinite supply of primed mods.

Login mods are not tradeable...

Edited January 3 by Leqesai

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

4 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Login mods are not tradeable...

Console players live in a parallel universe.

[(PSN)Unstar]

7 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Console players live in a parallel universe.

With respect, coming to this conclusion requires ignoring that the first post in this thread implying that these mods were tradable was from a PC player.  Console/PC wars are needless, tired, and built on a foundation of confirmation bias.  Let them die.

And to be clear, no shade to that player.  Warframe is incredibly complex and inconsistent, and everyone is going to misunderstand or forget some aspect of it at some point.  There's no shame in that; that's just human.

That being the case, it's laudable when folks in the community take the time and effort to write a kind post that corrects such misconceptions.  That helps build a community that's better informed and better united, which is healthy for the game and healthy for the players.  Hell yeah.

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

And to be clear, no shade to that player.  Warframe is incredibly complex and inconsistent, and everyone is going to misunderstand or forget some aspect of it at some point.  There's no shame in that; that's just human.

Seriously.  I just found out recently that built necramech parts are tradable.  You know, in contrast to basically everything else requiring that you trade blueprints instead.

[trst]

The question is why are players allowed to sell/dissolve them if that is currently allowed?

As for those who traded them away when that was an option I doubt DE cares enough to pity them. After all they intentionally cashed out on those mods when there was no other way to reobtain them outside of buying them back from someone else. And even then if you are currently allowed to turn them into Credits or Endo that's still a case of a player intentionally throwing away a mod with no way to get a new copy.

And as for keeping multiple copies at varying ranks that's a very niche method of modding to begin with. If DE cared about the minority of players who engage with that they'd likely have added downgrading long ago anyways.

 

So all in all I'd assume the reasons why they haven't put them in his shop it's because there's no reason to get rid of them in the first place and players who did intentionally did so with no way to get them back. Thus it's only logical to assume that they don't want the mods to begin with. Meanwhile the other things Simaris sells/Login rewards can permanently hinder an account if they were deleted before hitting rank 30, unlike mods which can just be replaced by other mods.

[Leqesai]

23 minutes ago, trst said:

The question is why are players allowed to sell/dissolve them if that is currently allowed?

As for those who traded them away when that was an option I doubt DE cares enough to pity them. After all they intentionally cashed out on those mods when there was no other way to reobtain them outside of buying them back from someone else. And even then if you are currently allowed to turn them into Credits or Endo that's still a case of a player intentionally throwing away a mod with no way to get a new copy.

And as for keeping multiple copies at varying ranks that's a very niche method of modding to begin with. If DE cared about the minority of players who engage with that they'd likely have added downgrading long ago anyways.

 

So all in all I'd assume the reasons why they haven't put them in his shop it's because there's no reason to get rid of them in the first place and players who did intentionally did so with no way to get them back. Thus it's only logical to assume that they don't want the mods to begin with. Meanwhile the other things Simaris sells/Login rewards can permanently hinder an account if they were deleted before hitting rank 30, unlike mods which can just be replaced by other mods.

It is a weird thing for sure.

I'm not sure why there isn't just a "you can only have 1 of these things" rule in effect, while offering the things from Simaris incase you disolve/remove/lose it...

Not that having 10000 of them would really mean anything anyway since you can only equip one at a time and they're not tradeable...

[Packetdancer]

16 hours ago, ricuse7 said:

The Items you can get a single time in the game and never ever again, are the following
Primed Fury, Primed Shred, Primed Sure Footed, and Primed Vigor.

The Amalgam mods for the Thermia Fractures achievements (Amalgam Barrel Diffusion, Amalgam Organ Shatter, Amalgam Shotgun Barrage, and Amalgam Serration) are also unable to ever be obtained again, last I checked. And I am fairly sure I remember seeing at least one thread here on the forums from someone who melted one of those for endo before realizing that the Amalgam mod they'd melted was not one of the farmable (but still untradeable) ones from the Ropalolyst.

I otherwise agree with you entirely that any one-off thing you've obtained should probably be available from Simaris afterwards; I just felt it worth calling out that the login loyalty mods are not the only mods with the problem.

(Because while they cannot be traded away any longer, I would not be at all shocked if you can still melt the primed loyalty login mods for endo.)

 

4 hours ago, (PSN)Lollybomb said:

Seriously.  I just found out recently that built necramech parts are tradable.  You know, in contrast to basically everything else requiring that you trade blueprints instead.

That blew my mind when I discovered it ages ago. I was trying to help someone get their necramech together and frustrated that I couldn't just trade them the materials along with the damaged bits, went "I wish I could just build these for you" and then I realized that I could in fact do so. It did not take long for the person in question to have a built necramech after that. :P

Now I keep a couple of each of the rebuilt necramech parts around specifically for when I run into frustrated newer Tenno on Deimos trying to farm necramech bits.

 

4 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

And to be clear, no shade to that player.  Warframe is incredibly complex and inconsistent, and everyone is going to misunderstand or forget some aspect of it at some point.  There's no shame in that; that's just human.

Plus, folks saying "login mods aren't tradable" are in fact themselves forgetting that this was not always the case; prior to January 2017, they were tradable, so a longtime PC player could in fact have traded them away at some point.

(Mind you, if someone traded away a login mod in 2016 and waited 8 years to ask about replacing it, I feel like the gaming statute of limitations may have been exceeded.)

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

10 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

With respect, coming to this conclusion requires ignoring that the first post in this thread implying that these mods were tradable was from a PC player.  Console/PC wars are needless, tired, and built on a foundation of confirmation bias.  Let them die.

And to be clear, no shade to that player.  Warframe is incredibly complex and inconsistent, and everyone is going to misunderstand or forget some aspect of it at some point.  There's no shame in that; that's just human.

That being the case, it's laudable when folks in the community take the time and effort to write a kind post that corrects such misconceptions.  That helps build a community that's better informed and better united, which is healthy for the game and healthy for the players.  Hell yeah.

Sent from my PlayStation 3

[Leqesai]

47 minutes ago, Packetdancer said:

Plus, folks saying "login mods aren't tradable" are in fact themselves forgetting that this was not always the case; prior to January 2017, they were tradable, so a longtime PC player could in fact have traded them away at some point.

(Mind you, if someone traded away a login mod in 2016 and waited 8 years to ask about replacing it, I feel like the gaming statute of limitations may have been exceeded.)

Daily reward mods were actually made untradeable on June 20th, 2016 as per the hotfix notes here:  

 

Lunaro 4 was released 200 days after the daily tribute changes occurred (12/3/2015) specifically to address the unexpected trading of Primed Fury (and subsequent primed mods). The trade window for Primed Fury was very short AFAIK, and I've not heard about any of the other Primed Mods being tradeable.

Please share any sources you have confirming they were tradeable until January 2017, because I couldn't find anything. I'm at work right now so my time is a little short for doublechecking stuff.

EDIT:

I see that primed vigor was also briefly tradeable and this was fixed in January of 2017 so I'm assuming this is what you're talking about. This was also a very fast hotfix (hotfix occurred on day 400). The number of players who may have traded Primed Fury or Primed Vigor is exceptionally small since the available window to do so was less than 24 hours (realistically less than 12 hours).

Edited January 3 by Leqesai

[Packetdancer]

9 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Please share any sources you have confirming they were tradeable until January 2017, because I couldn't find anything. I'm at work right now so my time is a little short for doublechecking stuff.

EDIT:

I see that primed vigor was also briefly tradeable and this was fixed in January of 2017 so I'm assuming this is what you're talking about. This was also a very fast hotfix (hotfix occurred on day 400). The number of players who may have traded Primed Fury or Primed Vigor is exceptionally small since the available window to do so was less than 24 hours (realistically less than 12 hours).

You're correct, I was misremembering the January 2017 hotfix as when all of them were made untradeable, not just that it was a correction of one that had gotten overlooked in the earlier hotfix. I will readily admit I had that one wrong.

But it is still the case that at one point they were able to be traded. I do not think anyone who traded them away is suddenly advocating for a way to get them back, but it strikes me as at least a tiny bit silly that folks were ready to shoot down things in the thread here sort of going "those mods have never been tradable, know the game better" without realizing that, in fact, that is not actually true and they were at one point able to be traded.

[Leqesai]

9 minutes ago, Packetdancer said:

You're correct, I was misremembering the January 2017 hotfix as when all of them were made untradeable, not just that it was a correction of one that had gotten overlooked in the earlier hotfix. I will readily admit I had that one wrong.

But it is still the case that at one point they were able to be traded. I do not think anyone who traded them away is suddenly advocating for a way to get them back, but it strikes me as at least a tiny bit silly that folks were ready to shoot down things in the thread here sort of going "those mods have never been tradable, know the game better" without realizing that, in fact, that is not actually true and they were at one point able to be traded.

They were tradeable on 6/20/2016 prior to the same-day hotfix that stopped them from being tradeable. The same issue popped up in January with Primed Vigor.

Neither they, nor any other daily reward mod was available for trade for any period longer than 24 hours (realistically they were not tradeable for even 12 hours).

 

So to make this clear.

Primed Fury was available for trade on 6/20/2016. It was also hotfixed and made untradeable on the same day.

Primed Vigor was available for trade in January 2017 and hotfixed to be untradeable the same day it was released.

The mods were never intended to be tradeable and there was no extended period in which any of the mods was available for trade.

Edited January 3 by Leqesai

[Packetdancer]

15 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

They were tradeable on 6/20/2016 prior to the same-day hotfix that stopped them from being tradeable. The same issue popped up in January with Primed Vigor.

Neither they, nor any other daily reward mod was available for trade for any period longer than 24 hours (realistically they were not tradeable for even 12 hours).

Hm, then I'll readily admit I'm misremembering the window prior to hotfix as being longer; it's definitely possible after 8+ years of many games. I am not infallible, and was going off of memory because I'm a bit pressed for time today, so didn't go double-check. Mea culpa; I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong.

Though I'll say that if they were only tradeable for that short of a window, then I think there's even less excuse for not having them in Simaris! It's not like people trading away the mods prior to that fix would've been a hugely widespread scenario, as you yourself note. (Nor do I think that it's really fundamentally a double-dipping exploit if you had to wait 8 years to get a replacement for something you traded away for plat or whatever. And I especially don't think it counts as a double-dipping trick if the re-obtaining was "spend 100k Simaris rep to get a new one" and everyone else could also get one that way, once they'd obtained it the first time.)

In the end, my overall opinion doesn't change: I do still think being able to melt things -- be they these, or the also-untradeable Thermia Fracture achievement Amalgam mods -- for endo or otherwise divest yourself of them when they cannot ever be obtained again is a problem. That problem isn't unique to "they can be traded away"; as noted, there's been at least one thread on these forums of someone who melted the one of the untradeable Thermia Fracture achievement Amalgam mods for endo, not realizing they couldn't get another.

And I do still think that, as a general rule, anything you can obtain once and only once should have some guard against loss. Whether that's "you cannot melt these for endo" or "you can get these from Simaris again for a boatload of rep if you did get rid of them somehow a'la the Umbral mods" is immaterial in the end, though I think the latter is the better option (as it also fixes things for anyone who already mistakenly got rid of things).

I feel like even DE themselves agree on that, at least in principle; after all, the Courtly Shawzin you get for the Duviri shawzin achievement is explicitly forbidden from being added to your clan dojo decorations specifically because you can never get a second one.

Edited January 3 by Packetdancer

[Leqesai]

3 minutes ago, Packetdancer said:

Hm, then I'll readily admit I'm misremembering the window prior to hotfix as being longer; it's definitely possible after 8+ years of many games. I am not infallible, and was going off of memory because I'm a bit pressed for time today, so didn't go double-check. Mea culpa; I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong.

Though I'll say that if they were only tradeable for that short of a window, then I think there's even less excuse for not having them in Simaris! It's not like people trading away the mods prior to that fix would've been a hugely widespread scenario, as you yourself note. (Nor do I think that it's really fundamentally a double-dipping exploit if you had to wait 8 years to get a replacement for something you traded away for plat or whatever.)

In the end, my overall opinion doesn't change: I do still think being able to melt things -- be they these, or the also-untradeable Thermia Fracture achievement Amalgam mods -- for endo or otherwise divest yourself of them when they cannot ever be obtained again is a problem. And I do still think that, in general, anything you can obtain once and only once should have some guard against loss. Whether that's "you cannot melt these for endo" or "you can get these from Simaris again for a boatload of rep if you did get rid of them somehow" is immaterial in the end, though I think the latter is the better option (as it also fixes things for anyone who already mistakenly got rid of things).

I feel like even DE themselves agree on that, at least in principle; after all, the Courtly Shawzin you get for the Duviri shawzin achievement is explicitly forbidden from being added to your clan dojo decorations specifically because you can never get a second one.

I 100% agree that they should be available from Simaris. There's no reason IMO that they shouldn't be... there's no advantage to having multiple copies of them other than mitigating a very niche capacity issue. Seems weird they haven't been made available.

[Packetdancer]

Just now, Leqesai said:

I 100% agree that they should be available from Simaris. There's no reason IMO that they shouldn't be... there's no advantage to having multiple copies of them other than mitigating a very niche capacity issue. Seems weird they haven't been made available.

Right? Doubly so since the Umbral mods are available there.