Disruption needs to be adjusted to encourage actually doing the mission correctly

[Hexerin]

There's two core issues:

1. You have to intentionally fail to get the A rotation. That is just outright inexcusably bad design, full stop.
2. Once you're on round 4+, you are incentivized to just ignore the fourth node because you only need three for rotation C.

The fixes for both are simple:

1. Change the tables:
   • Round 1: - / - / - / A
   • Round 2: A / A / A / B
   • Round 3: B / B / B / C
   • Round 4+: C / C / C / C+D
2. If you fail to protect a node in round 1, the mission concludes in failure and all players are immediately ejected from the mission.
   • Everything obtained during the mission is forfeit, per standard mission failure mechanics.
3. If you fail to protect a node in any round that's round 2+, the mission concludes in success and players are directed to extraction.
   • You've still successfully completed the mission, as you completed round 1 to meet the win condition.
     • All rewards you've obtained up to that point are thus granted.
   • You will still receive the reward from that round as normal.
     • For example, if it's round 3 and you fail to protect a node, you still receive a rotation B reward.
   • Sticking around serves no purpose, as no further rounds will begin and enemy spawns will cease.
4. Rotation D contains the "unique" or "high value" things from rotation C, without the filler.
   • Universal Token is set at 50% rate, all other rewards take the other 50% and split it evenly.
   • For example, Apollo (Lua) rotation D would be a 50% chance for Universal Token, and 50% chance for Lua Lens.

These fixes make it so that failing to protect a node during round 1 actually just outright fails the mission, so you need to complete all four nodes to kick the mission off. This brings it in parity with every other mission type, where you fail if you fail. For subsequent rounds, it makes it so you have to actually protect all the nodes to succeed the round and continue to the next.

Once you reach round 4+, you start receiving two rotation rewards per round (1x C rotation and 1x D rotation), which rewards the player for their ongoing efforts. The introduction of rotation D also incentivizes the player to put in their best effort, because it greatly increases their chances to get what they actually want.

[DarkSkysz]

7 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

If you fail to protect a node

This sucks. No point in making old content harder. Less and less people are going to play it until its totally desert.

Much better if they change it to AABC. With each safe conduit giving an extra reward, finishing the round with 4 loots.

[Hikuro-93]

Idk... I like them as they are, and they're my favorite game mode. Most of all because the way they are designed allows players to skew the reward pool in their favor, something not possible in pretty much all other game modes.

Of course if I am running pubs I'll assume we're all gunning for Rot. C, which is why if I specifically need Lith Relics I'll solo the Mars disruption while failling 2 nodes every round (except first ones ofc).

I guess all said and done I wouldn't be too opposed to a part of this, namely the reward reinforcement for achieving all nodes. But I wouldn't apply any punishment for failing nodes, not in any way, shape or form - as that pretty much screws up the very essence of disruption and what it aims to allow players to do.

Edited January 6 by Hikuro-93

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

I think it might be much easier to simply state which of the Rotarion A (or B) rewards you're chasing, and add a new disruption node where those are now in the C rotation.

For example, we have Mars disruption which is excellent for Meso, Uranus for Neo and Lua for Axi. We don't have a disruption for Lith.

Much easier to create new nodes than try barstardise the current mission/rotations.

[Zakkhar]

On 2024-01-06 at 1:48 AM, (PSN)iuvenilis said:

For example, we have Mars disruption which is excellent for Meso, Uranus for Neo and Lua for Axi. 

Mars and Uranus are both inferior to Void Captures.

On 2024-01-06 at 1:48 AM, (PSN)iuvenilis said:

We don't have a disruption for Lith.

We kinda do and it is Mars, but still - we do not need more inferior missions when Void Captures (for Lith as well) exist.

That is assuming your only goal is getting relics. Only efficient Disruption (relics-wise) is Lua, because there is no faster way of obtaining Axi relics. And regarding Lua all points are valid.

If you play any other Disruption for relics and complain...it is not the mission problem, it is the player's choice.

Edited January 7 by Zakkhar

[houghtonjojo1]

My question is why are people failing to get A rotation? 

On lower level disruptions A and B are the exact same rewards and with the higher level missions A rotation is just C rotation from lower level missions and on some planets C rotation is just objectify better rewards. 

I might be missing something but unless you're just trying to speed things up failing nodes is pretty pointless. 

Edited January 7 by houghtonjojo1

[VibingCat]

No, thanks. I don't want Lua lenses and universal medallions, just axis.

[Hexerin]

1 minute ago, VibingCat said:

No, thanks. I don't want Lua lenses and universal medallions, just axis.

Read the post.

[VibingCat]

1 minute ago, Hexerin said:

Read the post.

Ah, I see, my bad. Failing any conduit and we're out? That's even worse than I thought. 

[Hexerin]

28 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

Ah, I see, my bad. Failing any conduit and we're out? That's even worse than I thought. 

It's pretty much impossible to fail any, unless you intentionally allow the Demolisher to take it.

Edited January 8 by Hexerin

[L3512]

On 2024-01-06 at 8:22 AM, Hexerin said:

Once you're on round 4+, you are incentivized to just ignore the fourth node because you only need three for rotation C.

The biggest issue with disruption is that people think this is a good way to play which means you'll be wasting a ton of time on maps like Lua disruption with AI pathing.

The solution is as you say, two separate drop tables so there is always a guaranteed relic.

[VibingCat]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

It's pretty much impossible to fail any, unless you intentionally allow the Demolisher to take it.

Making sure none of the conduits fail slows the mission down by a lot, and level caps become unnecessarily harder to reach.

[Hexerin]

18 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

Making sure none of the conduits fail slows the mission down by a lot, and level caps become unnecessarily harder to reach.

Sounds like you're suffering from skill issue, my guy.

Edited January 8 by Hexerin

[Voltage]

On 2024-01-07 at 9:27 PM, Hexerin said:

Sounds like you're suffering from skill issue, my guy.

I don't really care for level cap at all, but in terms of Narmer Disruption (which is the only real Disruption I even touch due to the natural appearance), public really shows that failing a conduit extracting the player is just punishing for no good reason. I am all for there being more stakes in the game, but Disruption having such a fail state would make it worse in public than Sortie/Narmer Spy. I frequently take care of atleast 3 conduits solo while in public because players are often just not equipped for the way a Demolisher is different from a normal enemy/Eximus. 

On 2024-01-05 at 5:34 PM, DarkSkysz said:

Much better if they change it to AABC. With each safe conduit giving an extra reward, finishing the round with 4 loots.

I think this is a much better solution, and tweak the tables so that you're still getting guaranteed Relics and such on C, while the A and B rotations are healthy amounts of evergreen rewards comparative to how quick rotations are (good Credits, Endo, Kuva, etc.). This would also be a potential spot to move Ash parts to rotation B or include some other incentives to the tables.

This type of change encourages improvement rather than punishing failure. Someone who fails conduits is still punished as that means they lose their rotation C reward. That's enough of a sting to tell the player that they need to change approach.

Edited January 16 by Voltage

[PollexMessier]

The absolute worst take I've ever seen anyone make about disruption, shot of the people that just want it removed from the game.
Requiring all 4 conduits ever is an awful idea cus sometimes the spawn just janks the hell out and drops the demolisher right on top of the conduit. And there's no accounting for a teamate that might run off and start multiple conduits they're incapable of protecting.

And those drop table suggestions are awful. If it had to be changed, which it really doesn't need, it should be something more like:
A/A/A/A
A/A/A/B
A/A/B/B
A/B/B/C (4 rounds for C just like every other mission. But allows you to farm for rotation A for 4 rounds if you want to which is really nice)
B/B/C/C Repeating.
Gives you some wiggle room for jank spawns and garbage teamates, but still requires a reasonable amount of effort to get C. I don't think all 4 conduits should be required to get C past rotation 4. But I also definitely don't think it should be basically free only requireing one conduit.

On 2024-01-05 at 2:22 PM, Hexerin said:

Once you're on round 4+, you are incentivized to just ignore the fourth node because you only need three for rotation C.

This is just false. The 4th conduit specifically is the one you want to secure above all others because doing so clears the round faster than ignoring it. With the exclusive exception of round 4 if you're farming for rotation A items since you also always want to make sure you capture the first one to secure mission success in case anything goes wrong with the others. The only thing that incentivizes ignoring conduits is the loot rotation allowing you to farm other loot pools than the round you're on by doing so. Which is one of the best features of Disruption's reward mechanics, next to being able to repeatedly farm C or B after round 4 instead of the reward pool looping around.

On 2024-01-05 at 2:22 PM, Hexerin said:

Once you reach round 4+, you start receiving two rotation rewards per round (1x C rotation and 1x D rotation), which rewards the player for their ongoing efforts. The introduction of rotation D also incentivizes the player to put in their best effort, because it greatly increases their chances to get what they actually want.

That is just god awful reasoning because it assumes the drops exclusive to C are the only things that people want. But a huge amount of people play these for the relics, and it's the only thing worth playing the game mode for after you get the exclusive rewards from it. There's literally nothing exclusive to the rotation C of any disruption that's not one and done content besides universal medallions, and those are a separate issue because they're way too rare and should have many other ways to get them. Disruption is far more generous with everything in it's C rotations, other than the medallions, than literally any other mission type in the game already. One of the few things in the game I'd genuinely say needs little to no improvement.

Many people fail multiple conduits on longer runs on purpose to consistently pull from the B pool. So removing the ability to do that is actually just making the farm worse. Having all C rotation on round 4 and beyond, or any round at all really, makes players farming for relics substantially less likely to get what they want. And, I damn near NEVER say anything of the sort but, The idea of rotation D just giving you the C-exclusive items every round you clear all 4 conduits from rotation 4 onwards, is way too generous. You'd get everything exclusive to that disruption node in like 8-10 rounds. And it'd severely disincentivize long runs because it's actively detrimental to the actual evergreen rewards of the mode (again, except for the medallions which are their own special little case).

I have you on my ignore list cus you consistently have some of the worst takes I've ever seen on the forums. But this one was so egregious I had to say something about it. (I read it after seeing the title on someone else's response in unread content).

[Hexerin]

The amount of people raging in the replies who clearly failed basic English reading comprehension is absolutely astounding.

[DarkSkysz]

10 hours ago, Hexerin said:

The amount of people raging in the replies who clearly failed basic English reading comprehension is absolutely astounding.

Your idea was STUPID and you think ppl are dumb for not accepting it? Come on... you are worst than Karens.

[HunterDigi]

I think giving the lens or medallion or whatever else as a separate bonus item is good, but not 100% chance, it can be kept the same chance as it is now but instead of it replacing your relic reward you get it in addition to the relic.

As for people that want to keep A rotation, not much can do there xD maybe add another disruption that only gives Lith relics in the entire pool, if that's the use case here.

 

On 2024-01-06 at 12:22 AM, Hexerin said:

If you fail to protect a node in round 1, the mission concludes in failure and all players are immediately ejected from the mission.

Remember that sorties also have disruption and people frequently fail at least one there, and I don't think DE wants to have exceptions on so many things so it'll be simpler to just not fail if one gets destroyed... it also teaches the wrong thing, that players HAVE to do all nodes.

 

 

What I'd like for disruption is some QOL:

- less time between rounds, people have no patience to not kill enemies and therefore we get slower for not waiting until round starts.

(or alternatively keep the timer but allow keys to drop from the moment the last round ended)

- don't despawn same color keys when one is used, either it's intended to carry them over or not, don't make it this awkward fiddling of holding keys

(they should stop spawning ofc)

- avoid spawning keyholder enemies far from nodes, like when someone goes towards extraction they get a lot of key holders there making it extra slow for people that want to continue, especially if they kill them and drop keys

- allow keys to be picked up immediately as they drop, they have some painfully long delay.

- mark keys with 3D markers, as someone playing with full map view I see people frequently go past them over and over xD

- once a single player sees a demo (and is marked with enemy for them), mark that demo for EVERYONE, because that is what the player seeing that expects.

Edited January 20 by HunterDigi

[MarakViri]

Alternative take. Remove the "failed node = failed mission" right away. That's just unnecessary. If you want to impose that on your own runs, then by all means. No need to force it upon everyone else though.

The D Cycle reward is an interesting idea, but far too strong as a 100% chance. Maybe lower it to, say, 25%, with a 100% chance after three consecutive rounds without it. Or just set it to be 100% on rounds 8, 12, 16, etc.

But, even then the rewards would have to change. Instead, have it appear with 3 choices (like a relic crack). The first is a relic (because most endurance runs are for those), and the other two being two of the "rarer" drops, chosen at random.

The rotation cycle suggestion is kind of horrible though. Exclusively C rotation is problematic. May as well just do low level captures at that point. The only reason I can think anyone would suggest that is someone who is struggling to farm C rotation drops for Gauss or something. The rotations are fine as is. Hell, the D rotation only appearing after 4 consecutive "flawless" rounds works too, especially if it is an additional reward on top of the usual rotation.

But chances are, my opinion is something I have because of a "skill issue", so yeah.

You could have brought up legitimate complaints, like the round delay, enemy spawning, demolist spawns, or random conduit fails due to demolist falling out of the map. But no. You want to make the game mode less rewarding for the players that are actually enjoying it. Keep in mind, I'm not one of them. I don't find long endurance runs of this particularly enjoyable (I don't think I've ever bothered going past round 20).

At most you could argue for the final rotation to be something like AABC, to make it worthwhile to do all 4 if you want the C rotation, while still allowing for A and B rotation farming.

And claiming you have to "outright fail" to get A rotation is blatantly false. Sure, you can fail horrible and end up with an A rotation. Or you could maximise your efficiency, or calculate the best odds of a specific drop, and get the A rotation your aiming for.

If every conduit gave a reward, then maybe your "fail = fail" would have merit. But, this is like a more interactive, less mobile Interception. It doesn't matter how many towers the other side controls, as long as you get the points you need to win. Do you fail an interception if an enemy controls 3 towers when you hit 100%? Obviously not.

Honestly, your ideal seems more like a sidestep of Defense than a change to Disruption. Only, instead of worrying about a Swarm of enemies, any one of whom could destroy your defense target in a half-hearted Breath at a high level, you only need to worry about one explody-boy.

Edited January 20 by MarakViri