Add ways to obtain umbra forma

[Pizzarugi]

6 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

https://overframe.gg/build/573454/azothane/ribbonless-azothane/

Here's my modification:
https://overframe.gg/build/new/6178/azothane/?bs=WzEsNjE3OCwzMCwxLFtbMzU4LDUsMV0sWzY3OSw1LDFdLFszNTksNSwxXSxbMzYwLDUsMV0sWzM0NSwxMCwxXSxbMzUyLDEwLDFdLFszMzgsMywwXSxbMzM3LDMsMF0sWzI0NjAsMywxXSxbMCwwLDBdLFswLDAsMF1dXQ==

All I did was swap out sacrificial mods for elemental+status hybrids and ended up increasing DPS by a few thousand. It also saves a massive amount of mod capacity so you could even drop a forma or two from your build, add an exilus mod, and/or swap out Gladiator Might for a Riven. By the way, Overframe doesn't factor in viral procs in its DPS so this value will be much higher in practice which will absolutely blow away your iteration.

Please don't tell other people they don't know how to mod when you clearly don't know the first thing about modding either.

Edited January 8 by Pizzarugi

[Urazz82]

I do use all Umbra warframe mods on my Rhino, Chroma, Inaros (the Umbral Intensify mod helps with the slow on the Gloom ability subsumed onto him), and Lavos.  But outside of that, I really don't need them all that much to the point I need to use Umbra forma nowadays.  Especially on warframes that rely on their 4th ability, which is replacing Umbral Intensify with Precision Intensify now.  I use the Sacrificial Steel mod on my crit melee weapons but I don't really use my umbra forma for that.

[Lord_Drod]

Weeping Wounds should be better than stacking PPP/Sac Steel with CO since they're additive especially in groups and if you're priming, in general.  Not sure how you're using it.  At max stacks, the CC difference is 408% vs 371% with 1 glad on (2 Sac vs 1) heavy or  315%/296% on normals and 221% with neither I think.  There's forced procs I'm sure on some hits, but SC at max with weeping is 22%-119%.  I don't know if that's relevant or not depending on use.

Edited January 9 by Lord_Drod

[Lime-Prime]

Umbral mods are a marginal stat upgrade compare to their normal counterparts and these margins can always be covered by arcanes or archon shards, which are easier to obtain. 

For Warframe builds, you mostly just use the umbral intensify alone. Which does work without the umbra forma, although it does cause you to use some more forma on the frame. For the melee builds, sacrificial steel tends to be preferred for critical chance, so that one is used very often too. But this too is achievable without umbra forma. 

You only need umbral forma if you want to use 2 or more of the umbral mods, but that's a very marginal increase in power. But is that really needed?

Looking at your total ability strength, you gain 14% more strength from the lone umbral mod than the normal intensify. How much is that in grand total? If your build has 150% strength, you literally added 10% more. With 3 umbral mods, umbral intensify is at 77% but you did use 2 more slots for that. One of those slots, the armor, is not of high value. With Augur secrets and intensify you have 54% and one more slot to use.

There are a few select instances where certain power strength % makes a big difference, for example a certain % to fully armor strip. But these limits are usually somewhere between 100-200% and this is easily reached without umbral mods. For damage alone, you will not notice a huge difference between having 250 or 275 ability strength.

Umbral mods will not make or break your build. Armor and health are not really as important as shield and immunity in higher content, so the vitality and armor umbral mods are not super important in my experience.

Edited January 9 by Lime-Prime

[(XBOX)K1jker]

Am 8.1.2024 um 11:41 schrieb Chewarette:

 Umbral formas are rare ==> use them wisely.

No! 

I also want to see umbra forma in the market. 

[Chewarette]

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)K1jker said:

No! 

I also want to see umbra forma in the market. 

I'm not sure why you're answering "No" to a fact I've just stated. Umbra Formas are factually rare due to their unavailability in the market, and in my opinion it's good like that (you can reply "No" to my opinion though, even if it won't change it). Rare things make you think twice before using.

[Aruquae]

On 2024-01-08 at 4:44 AM, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

I'm so done with this game, I swear. I have at least 5 unfinished builds just because there is literally no way to obtain umbra forma in this game, and umbra mods are literally so overpowered that you cannot play this game without umbra mods. Add way to buy umbra forma for plat, it doesn't make sense that I can buy other formas for plat but not umbra forma.

50% of all frames don’t need them… at most Umbral intensify, but that’s only if you need 14% more strength… they lack the armor for Umbral fiber, and without armor tanking the health from Umbral vitality is a bust.

[Lime-Prime]

Hello

Here is an example of a high strength build using umbral intensify without any umbra forma:

 

In this case the exilus polarity is off, but the augment mod being cheap made up for that. It will work but as you see, you need to put in some serious forma in some cases.

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

19 hours ago, Lime-Prime said:

Hello

Here is an example of a high strength build using umbral intensify without any umbra forma:

 

In this case the exilus polarity is off, but the augment mod being cheap made up for that. It will work but as you see, you need to put in some serious forma in some cases.

now try using two umbra mods

On 2024-01-09 at 12:05 AM, Lord_Drod said:

Weeping Wounds should be better than stacking PPP/Sac Steel with CO since they're additive especially in groups and if you're priming, in general.  Not sure how you're using it.  At max stacks, the CC difference is 408% vs 371% with 1 glad on (2 Sac vs 1) heavy or  315%/296% on normals and 221% with neither I think.  There's forced procs I'm sure on some hits, but SC at max with weeping is 22%-119%.  I don't know if that's relevant or not depending on use.

no one is priming with their melee, weeping wounds is the most useless mod in the game

[Lime-Prime]

I explained earlier that the % increase from using two mods is marginal and can easily be accounted for via shards, arcanes, etc. The increase of adding umbral vitality together with umbral intensify, instead of just vitality I guess, is not something that is crucial. It is a "small" improvement at best, although having played for almost 2.2 k hours at this point I can say that Umbral vitality really is not worth it in most cases. The OP argument was that you have to have these, but that's incorrect. I am doing all content available in the game with one umbral mod or without any of them in some cases. You have other/better/cheaper options to get those stats. In most builds, replacing umbral intensify with intensify is not a significant deal at all. And as showed, you can have one umbral mod without umbral forma. For the rare cases that you want 2 or 3 umbral mods, well, feel free to dump the few umbral forma there. But this is definitely not needed nor recommended for all frames or even most frames.

You can easily test these things in simulacrum and you will see that the margins you are chasing are easily covered/exceeded by other means. Molt Augmented arcane can help, red shards can help, madurai focus tree can help, growing power aura can help etc... Same goes for armor and health, many other means to get those stats that will cover the margins umbral mods provide over the ordinary mods.

Edited January 10 by Lime-Prime

[FiveN9ne]

3 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

now try using two umbra mods

no one is priming with their melee, weeping wounds is the most useless mod in the game

Lmao, this dude is really clueless. Lets make a list. 

1. Using CO with Sac. Pressure

2. Using Sac. Steel with BR on light spam build

3. Weeping Wounds is useless (LOL)

It's always these kinds of people who are so confident while being wrong at the same time.

[Aruquae]

6 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

now try using two umbra mods

no one is priming with their melee, weeping wounds is the most useless mod in the game

What are you smoking? This is the same as galvanized mods, you don’t need primers in order for them to be better than their counterpart. 
I would go math on you but… your comments tell me you wouldn’t care to admit you were wrong. 

[Kaiga]

On 2024-01-08 at 6:32 AM, FiveN9ne said:

Dude is putting Pressure mod alongside Condition Overload and Sac Steel with Blood Rush and telling people to learn how to mod. Ironic.

I think people are falling for this thread. This is very clearly a troll post with how comically inaccurate and argumentative the OP is, trying to get a reaction out of people (and it seems to be working). 

Nobody's that committed to being so wrong lol

[Alko897]

On 2024-01-08 at 4:13 AM, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

And what else am I supposed to stick into my melee? Status mods? Laughable

The only times that the Umbral melee mods generally see use are on heavy attack builds.  When it comes to general melee use, combo is king.  Meaning that Weeping Wounds, Blood Rush & Condition overload are probably some of the best and most widely used melee mods there are.  Status has been king in terms of melee for a LONG time now.

Umbral Pressure Point is straight up worse than the Primed variant, and both cannot scale as well as Condition Overload.
Umbral True Steel is really only good for scaling heavy attack crits.  Or, as of WITW, taking advantage of melee duplicate by cutting Blood Rush in its place.

 

On 2024-01-08 at 3:55 AM, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Both ways take multiple weeks to obtain 1 forma

I don't use umbra mods in my warframe build. On the other hands, on my melee I don't even have enough capacity to put a riven, not to mention exilus slot.

When it comes to endgame, normal Forma is generally a better investment than Umbral Forma.  And the grind for that with relics is far easier.
Umbral Forma is just like Rivens and Archon Shards - are meant for specialization.  Take your favorite gear and make it that much better.

If you are struggling to fit certain things on your builds, make sure you have a reactor/catalyst on the item, and forma for polarities of important things like Primed Reach, Condition Overload, Blood Rush, your Riven's polarity, Etc.

Also - Melee weapons are probably the absolute worst use of Umbral Forma except for an odd flex for this reason as well..

[BalaDeSilver]

Guys, OP is clearly a troll, can we please move on?

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

20 hours ago, Alko897 said:

The only times that the Umbral melee mods generally see use are on heavy attack builds.  When it comes to general melee use, combo is king.  Meaning that Weeping Wounds, Blood Rush & Condition overload are probably some of the best and most widely used melee mods there are.  Status has been king in terms of melee for a LONG time now.

Umbral Pressure Point is straight up worse than the Primed variant, and both cannot scale as well as Condition Overload.
Umbral True Steel is really only good for scaling heavy attack crits.  Or, as of WITW, taking advantage of melee duplicate by cutting Blood Rush in its place.

 

When it comes to endgame, normal Forma is generally a better investment than Umbral Forma.  And the grind for that with relics is far easier.
Umbral Forma is just like Rivens and Archon Shards - are meant for specialization.  Take your favorite gear and make it that much better.

If you are struggling to fit certain things on your builds, make sure you have a reactor/catalyst on the item, and forma for polarities of important things like Primed Reach, Condition Overload, Blood Rush, your Riven's polarity, Etc.

Also - Melee weapons are probably the absolute worst use of Umbral Forma except for an odd flex for this reason as well..

Status does not increase your damage, why would you mod a melee for status?

21 hours ago, Aruquae said:

you don’t need primers in order for them to be better than their counterpart. 

I don't need primers for primers to be better than their counterpart? What?

 

On 2024-01-10 at 12:53 PM, FiveN9ne said:

Lmao, this dude is really clueless. Lets make a list. 

1. Using CO with Sac. Pressure

2. Using Sac. Steel with BR on light spam build

3. Weeping Wounds is useless (LOL)

It's always these kinds of people who are so confident while being wrong at the same time.

And what is the point of this post? Why don't you elaborate what's wrong with using CO with Sac. Pressure? What's wrong with using Sac. Steel with BR? Why is Weeping Wounds useful?

[Lord_Drod]

3 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

And what is the point of this post? Why don't you elaborate what's wrong with using CO with Sac. Pressure? What's wrong with using Sac. Steel with BR? Why is Weeping Wounds useful?

BR and WW are both very useful if you are maintaining a high combo count, but not really if you aren't.  You will put way more slash procs on your target.  If you're mainly killing through heavy attacks, then you don't need either, unless you are maintaining a high combo count as well. 

CO/PPP are additive with each other, so the more statuses that are on enemies, the less impactful PPP becomes with them equipped together.  I'd assume you are sporadically using heavy attacks, so WW would be better than PPP/SP.  If you were spamming heavies a lot, but maintaining 12x combo somehow with the new arcanes, you'll still need max heavy efficiency, and I'd want WW, BR, SS, SP, and CO all on, with range, attack speed, and faction, and here you are missing CD.  You usually either build for heavies or combo or you have to make sacrifices.  If you're not spamming heavies, you can't usually fit PPP/SP in without a riven/incarnon/arcane/helminth. 

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

9 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

BR and WW are both very useful if you are maintaining a high combo count, but not really if you aren't.  You will put way more slash procs on your target.  If you're mainly killing through heavy attacks, then you don't need either, unless you are maintaining a high combo count as well. 

CO/PPP are additive with each other, so the more statuses that are on enemies, the less impactful PPP becomes with them equipped together.  I'd assume you are sporadically using heavy attacks, so WW would be better than PPP/SP.  If you were spamming heavies a lot, but maintaining 12x combo somehow with the new arcanes, you'll still need max heavy efficiency, and I'd want WW, BR, SS, SP, and CO all on, with range, attack speed, and faction, and here you are missing CD.  You usually either build for heavies or combo or you have to make sacrifices.  If you're not spamming heavies, you can't usually fit PPP/SP in without a riven/incarnon/arcane/helminth. 

I use obviously use combo and I don’t use slash and heavy attacks at all.

“Additive” doesn’t mean less impactful, 100% damage will always add 100% damage, exactly as expected.

[Aruquae]

16 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

don't need primers for primers to be better than their counterpart? What?

So sorry, I didn’t see this until now. I was stating you don’t need primers in order for weeping wounds to count a status, as the weapon damage type counts as a status. Primers are only really needed if you want to push the limit of weeping wounds (with all the elemental stacks), but it’s not needed, it’s still better than it’s older counterpart. 

Edited January 11 by Aruquae
Typo

[Dunkelheit]

Am 8.1.2024 um 10:44 schrieb NorthernDarkIceSoul:

in this game, and umbra mods are literally so overpowered that you cannot play this game without umbra mods

The discussion stops here, because this is blatantly wrong.

[Aruquae]

2 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Additive” doesn’t mean less impactful, 100% damage will always add 100% damage, exactly as expected.

Think of it as additive flat damage versus multiplicative damage. When you deal so much damage, the added bonus damage doesn’t compare to multiplicative damage, as it only adds a flat amount, that’s not even considering your total damage. Multiplicative boosts damage better than flat damage if you would. 

[Dunkelheit]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb NorthernDarkIceSoul:

I use obviously use combo and I don’t use slash and heavy attacks at all.

“Additive” doesn’t mean less impactful, 100% damage will always add 100% damage, exactly as expected.

It will add 100% damage from the base value to the damage. If the base damage is 50 and you have 250 damage of this kind already, 100% adds another 50 damage, which is a measly 20% more damage. If you multiply the value, you get so much more out of it.

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

2 hours ago, Aruquae said:

So sorry, I didn’t see this until now. I was stating you don’t need primers in order for weeping wounds to count a status, as the weapon damage type counts as a status. Primers are only really needed if you want to push the limit of weeping wounds (with all the elemental stacks), but it’s not needed, it’s still better than it’s older counterpart. 

Primers are needed to armor strip and viral. WW on melee is not needed because you have a primer.

 

2 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

It will add 100% damage from the base value to the damage. If the base damage is 50 and you have 250 damage of this kind already, 100% adds another 50 damage, which is a measly 20% more damage. If you multiply the value, you get so much more out of it.

Right. Say you have 100 base damage, mod for 100% damage increase and roar with 100% damage increase, you are going to deal 100 * (1 + 1) * (1 + 1) = 400 damage. If you add another mod for another 100% damage increase, then you are going to deal 100 * (1 + 1 + 1) * (1 + 1) = 600 damage.  So I don’t see how it’s “less impactful”. Obviously if you could add a third multiplier, it would be better; however, my build is already utilizing all available multipliers.

2 hours ago, Aruquae said:

Think of it as additive flat damage versus multiplicative damage. When you deal so much damage, the added bonus damage doesn’t compare to multiplicative damage, as it only adds a flat amount, that’s not even considering your total damage. Multiplicative boosts damage better than flat damage if you would. 

See what I said to other guy.

[Aruquae]

6 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Primers are needed to armor strip and viral. WW on melee is not needed because you have a primer.

Please… tell me you’re a troll… this isn’t healthy…

You’re short circuiting my brain… this is just plain wrong

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

1 minute ago, Aruquae said:

Please… tell me you’re a troll… this isn’t healthy…

You’re short circuiting my brain… this is just plain wrong

What’s wrong?