Rhino Stomp is absolutely broken!

[DezerayTwT]

Rhino Stomp bypasses Overguard and slows down Eximus enemies, please fix it, it's just not fair.

[VasjaTheOx]

Corpus spy alert.

[SDGDen]

its actually broken in more than one way. fun fact: rhino stomp's slowdown is the ONLY one in the game that doesnt scale with power strength, it's always 97.5% slowdown (aka 1/40th speed).

this is one of the many parts that make him a really good newbie frame. he has a crowd control that doesnt need investment to be good on top of a survivability tool that doesnt need investment to be good.

even roar is already pretty okay without any strength mods.

but despite that, rhino does still *benefit* from more investment, so he grows with the newbie as they collect mods, arcanes and subsumes to increase their power.

 

[Tiltskillet]

12 minutes ago, DezerayTwT said:

Rhino Stomp bypasses Overguard and slows down Eximus enemies, please fix it, it's just not fair.

One of many CC abilities/effects that do so.  It might be the best though. 

Celestial Stomp is also quite good for this, but a lot clunkier.  And takes an augment.

 

[DezerayTwT]

8 минут назад, SDGDen сказал:

its actually broken in more than one way. fun fact: rhino stomp's slowdown is the ONLY one in the game that doesnt scale with power strength, it's always 97.5% slowdown (aka 1/40th speed).

this is one of the many parts that make him a really good newbie frame. he has a crowd control that doesnt need investment to be good on top of a survivability tool that doesnt need investment to be good.

even roar is already pretty okay without any strength mods.

but despite that, rhino does still *benefit* from more investment, so he grows with the newbie as they collect mods, arcanes and subsumes to increase their power.

 

I did not say anything against the Rhino, I want to draw attention to the fact that its ability does not work correctly, I want Digital Extremes to pay attention to this too.

7 минут назад, Tiltskillet сказал:

One of many CC abilities/effects that do so.  It might be the best though. 

Celestial Stomp is also quite good for this, but a lot clunkier.  And takes an augment.

 

I don't remember CC abilities of frames working on Eximuses under Overguard.

[taiiat]

8 minutes ago, DezerayTwT said:

I don't remember CC abilities of frames working on Eximuses under Overguard.

some effects work, but a greatly reduced set. the ones that work usually tend to be lower scale/impact ones, which to me is a good way to handle balancing all of that.
but there's a couple larger scale/impact features, and that's a different matter. even so my usual stance of reduced effectiveness over things magically not working, still applies. would prefer their effectiveness to be reduced on Overguard, rather than just not working for no good reason.

[DarkSkysz]

33 minutes ago, DezerayTwT said:

it's just not fair.

[Tiltskillet]

15 minutes ago, DezerayTwT said:

I don't remember CC abilities of frames working on Eximuses under Overguard.

 

[DezerayTwT]

21 минуту назад, taiiat сказал:

some effects work, but a greatly reduced set. the ones that work usually tend to be lower scale/impact ones, which to me is a good way to handle balancing all of that.
but there's a couple larger scale/impact features, and that's a different matter. even so my usual stance of reduced effectiveness over things magically not working, still applies. would prefer their effectiveness to be reduced on Overguard, rather than just not working for no good reason.

I completely agree with you, it's unclear why Digital Extremes just blocked the operation of some abilities, but at the same time they most likely forgot about the Rhino stomp and the 3 Wisp ability, which by the way also needs to be repaired.

Hey, I just don't want some frames to have everything, others have nothing, Rhino is already a very strong warframe in itself, which is warmly accepted by the community, as well as Wisp, but this is not a reason to turn a blind eye to the fact that their abilities literally work unusually or stronger than they should be, for some warframes, the opposite is true.

[DezerayTwT]

23 минуты назад, Tiltskillet сказал:

 

I understand what you are talking about and your research is really interesting, but I will note that I know in fact only 2 abilities that apply control through Overguard, this is the Rhino stomp and the 3 Wisp ability.

[Tiltskillet]

16 minutes ago, DezerayTwT said:

but I will note that I know in fact only 2 abilities that apply control through Overguard, this is the Rhino stomp and the 3 Wisp ability.

Are you saying  the others in that thread are incorrect, that they're all minor in comparison, or just that you haven't verified them yourself?

[DezerayTwT]

14 минут назад, Tiltskillet сказал:

Are you saying  the others in that thread are incorrect, that they're all minor in comparison, or just that you haven't verified them yourself?

Yes and no. I didn't read everything, in fact I was talking about what I checked myself. I was no longer talking in general about the abilities that work on enemies with Overguard, I was talking specifically about control abilities. After all, Overguard, by its very nature, should give the enemy Eximus full protection from control effects and some effects aimed at blinding the target with Overguard (like 3 Equinox abilities). But for some reason, the ability of Rhino and Wisp does not concern this and it is not normal.

Edited January 16 by DezerayTwT

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, SDGDen said:

 fun fact: rhino stomp's slowdown is the ONLY one in the game that doesnt scale with power strength . . .

While I don't think it true it's  literally the only one, what's most remarkable to me about Stomp is how infrequently I see Rhino players using it.    Maybe they're all playing low range builds, I don't know.  :/

5 minutes ago, DezerayTwT said:

I was no longer talking in general about the abilities that work on enemies with Overguard, I was talking specifically about control abilities.

Well, me too.  Although some of those listed in the thread are "borderline CCs" or maybe not CC at all by many  definitions.  Aggro manipulations, for example.    But they're mentioned for the sake of completeness, and because many definitions are not all definitions.

If you know of outright errors or omissions or learn of any, I still update that thread periodically and would like to hear about them.

[Nelsconey]

2 hours ago, DezerayTwT said:

Rhino Stomp bypasses Overguard and slows down Eximus enemies, please fix it, it's just not fair.

 

John Prodman burner account?  

[DezerayTwT]

1 час назад, Tiltskillet сказал:

While I don't think it true it's  literally the only one, what's most remarkable to me about Stomp is how infrequently I see Rhino players using it.    Maybe they're all playing low range builds, I don't know.  :/

Well, me too.  Although some of those listed in the thread are "borderline CCs" or maybe not CC at all by many  definitions.  Aggro manipulations, for example.    But they're mentioned for the sake of completeness, and because many definitions are not all definitions.

If you know of outright errors or omissions or learn of any, I still update that thread periodically and would like to hear about them.

As far as I know, there are several factors that determine the protection from control for enemies with Overguard, these are the rag doll effect, blinding, slowing down, stunning, any kind of staggering and most importantly, moving the unit in space, again in any way, all this is prohibited by Overguard.

Rhino's ability is a very strong slowdown and logically it should be banned, but for some reason it does not fall. The Wisp ability is blinding, blinding also falls under the ban for Overguard enemies, HOWEVER, for some reason it works.

There are effects that can work partially on enemies, say we have Yareli bubbles that hang enemies and increase damage on them, hanging will not work on enemies with Overguard, but damage avoidance will work and there are many similar abilities.

The oddities begin when the ability is not actually a control, but for some reason it does not work on enemies with Overguard, for example 3 Equinox ability, in fact it is not a control, it is a debuff, but for some reason the system considers it a control and turns it off on Overguard enemies.

[SDGDen]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

While I don't think it true it's  literally the only one, what's most remarkable to me about Stomp is how infrequently I see Rhino players using it.    Maybe they're all playing low range builds, I don't know.  :/

during last plague star event i had a newbie from my clan join runs since they wanted to farm some forma and the other rewards, we had them run rhino since A: the slow is exactly the right tool for keeping the heads open (stomp as one of the heads attacks > your team now has 8 seconds to do DPS at base) and B: iron skin helped a lot in getting a new player to survive level 70+ enemies. 

[golDANFeeD]

Razorflies

[Tiltskillet]

39 minutes ago, DezerayTwT said:

Rhino's ability is a very strong slowdown and logically it should be banned, but for some reason it does not fall. The Wisp ability is blinding, blinding also falls under the ban for Overguard enemies, HOWEVER, for some reason it works.

I'm not sure why you're explaining this to me, like you think I'd disagree?

40 minutes ago, DezerayTwT said:

The oddities begin when the ability is not actually a control, but for some reason it does not work on enemies with Overguard, for example 3 Equinox ability, in fact it is not a control, it is a debuff, but for some reason the system considers it a control and turns it off on Overguard enemies.

There are a number of these listed in that thread as well, including Pacify.  But they're much more tedious to test, so I suspect there are great deal I'm unaware of.

31 minutes ago, golDANFeeD said:

Razorflies

I'll add it, thank you.   Question though: just in terms of drawing threat?  They're definitely extremely good at that.   Or is there more to it? 

[DezerayTwT]

1 час назад, Tiltskillet сказал:

I'm not sure why you're explaining this to me, like you think I'd disagree?

There are a number of these listed in that thread as well, including Pacify.  But they're much more tedious to test, so I suspect there are great deal I'm unaware of.

I'll add it, thank you.   Question though: just in terms of drawing threat?  They're definitely extremely good at that.   Or is there more to it? 

I just expressed some points, because of which our judgments may differ, so that there would be no unnecessary incomprehensible situations.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

The fact that you actually found a Rhino player unironically using Stomp to slow down eximus units rather than blasting their head off with a 564561% roar boosted gun surprised me more than the fact that the ability works against them.

[DezerayTwT]

12 часов назад, Fred_Avant_2019 сказал:

The fact that you actually found a Rhino player unironically using Stomp to slow down eximus units rather than blasting their head off with a 564561% roar boosted gun surprised me more than the fact that the ability works against them.

yes bro, I've already played this game a lot of time and I want it to have fewer skills that don't work correctly.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

il y a 30 minutes, DezerayTwT a dit :

yes bro, I've already played this game a lot of time and I want it to have fewer skills that don't work correctly.

Sure, but that wouldn't be the only time Overguard acts funky.

Silence prevents Overguarded enemies from using their spells (like fireblast from arson eximus, breaks frozen shields of arctic eximus...)

Blinds seem to work despite Overguard.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say this is an intended interaction, but considering it's not been adressed this whole time, it might be, OR it's a spaghetti code issue.

[Famecans]

Hemocyte...

Edited January 17 by Famecans

[Famecans]

Descriptive mess:

some skills remove armor from bosses while other skills that cost double energy do not remove armor from bosses; some abilities destroy nullifier bubbles while others cannot; some exalted skills can target specific bosses and enemies while other skills cannot hit them...

the existence of eximus enemies is a bandaid for nuke abilities and this bandaid further nerfed all the clumsy warframes; The addition of green and orange shards was an improvement for clumsy warframes but this improved warframes with nuke abilities.

In short: as long as the enemies don't have the AI reworked to hunt spam nuke players this game will continue to be a descriptive mess. As long as the nerfs and buffs are not aimed at classes that are the focus of the problem, this game will continue to be a descriptive mess; Until new classes and subcategories are created for weapon, damage, abilities, warframes, this game will continue to be a mess.

thanks for reading.

[DezerayTwT]

1 час назад, Fred_Avant_2019 сказал:

Sure, but that wouldn't be the only time Overguard acts funky.

Silence prevents Overguarded enemies from using their spells (like fireblast from arson eximus, breaks frozen shields of arctic eximus...)

Blinds seem to work despite Overguard.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say this is an intended interaction, but considering it's not been adressed this whole time, it might be, OR it's a spaghetti code issue.

Look, silence blocks the abilities of Eximus enemies, this is its main feature, but also when it first affects the enemy, it stuns him for a short period of time, Eximus enemies are not affected by this stun, because they have an Overguard, which gives enemies immunity to almost all controls in the game. Blocking abilities with banshee silence is its negative effect, enemies with Overguard do not block this effect, so it works and it's fine.

With the abilities of Rhino and Wisp, the situation is different, they inflict control on the enemy with Overguard and this is not normal, I ask you to pay attention to this.