Nuke Builds Are Ruining Gameplay Enjoyment

[Merkranire]

16 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

Do you really think that only those who play slowly can have a bad time? You couldn't be more narrow-minded. You can ask DE for a better matchmaking system. In the meantime, the solution is simple: can't tolerate playing with someone fast or slow? Do what I and many others mentioned and at the same time you won't have to act like a victim. By the way, my playstyle is not fast, although I use Volt, I don't spam his 4 and try to use his 2 out of reach of other players, especially if they are Titania and Nezha.

 

 

Anyone who matches with you is a victim or a hinderance when they’re not trying to be after they were already considerate about how they built in the first place for the sake of leaving some game to play.

I would love a proper matchmaking system because I’m tired of avoiding Public. You’ve suggested I stick to solo, guess what, I have been, and would love to have an easy way to just play some game with someone else regardless of how they play, instead of playing follow the leader and practicing my traversal since it’s all that I get to do.

Public is the domain of grindheads and efficiency chasers, that much has already been established, and by dint of what they do and what they build for, often there’s not a whole lot of game left for even themselves let alone someone else. It’s not a healthy place

[x90maverick]

a

Edited January 25 by x90maverick
didnt quote lol

[Berzerkules]

2 hours ago, Merkranire said:

This isn’t a “Oh, we just have different playstyles”, this is you actively choose the build and mission knowing what it results in and that the result is that anyone else sits around with their thumb up their ass while you act like we’re all on equal footing and deserve equal consideration while you remove the game because that’s what you wanted to do in the first place because it’s why you chose that build and mission combo

After a quick look at your profile it appears that you you actively choose to not use prime items. After 4+ years you have like less than a dozen prime items and you're over here arguing with people about what goes on in fissures. 

Are you so antimeta that you purposely gimp yourself then complain? 

You're pedaling a moped down the freeway calling people jackasses and telling them to slow down.

[x90maverick]

38 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

Do you really think that only those who play slowly can have a bad time? You couldn't be more narrow-minded. You can ask DE for a better matchmaking system. In the meantime, the solution is simple: can't tolerate playing with someone fast or slow? Do what I and many others mentioned and at the same time you won't have to act like a victim. By the way, my playstyle is not fast, although I use Volt, I don't spam his 4 and try to use his 2 out of reach of other players, especially if they are Titania and Nezha.

 

agree with the last bit for sure

I think there is some player discretion needed at times, if in a pub squad and theres some nuke builds (esp on fissures, or invasion chores) then go all out, its a good laugh.

if theres others in the squad that are struggling/getting downed, then tone down your style a bit, thats what i do. 

[Merkranire]

38 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

After a quick look at your profile it appears that you you actively choose to not use prime items. After 4+ years you have like less than a dozen prime items and you're over here arguing with people about what goes on in fissures. 

Are you so antimeta that you purposely gimp yourself then complain? 

You're pedaling a moped down the freeway calling people jackasses and telling them to slow down.

What? No, I just haven’t got around to getting them. I assure you I’ve got plenty of primes I’m looking forward to completing and am missing like one or two pieces, and I’m still doing relics, I just haven’t rushed into getting the parts and fighting RNG until my ears bleed, nor have I bothered purchasing them from another player. And it’s not like the weapons themselves are the problem, as I’m quite able to build for the content I’m doing 

Haha, I’m thinking this is kind of a lame thing to pull me up on when there could be so many reasons I haven’t rushed to getting all the primes. You think that primes are indicative of A******ry or something, do you?

If anything, it could be an indicator that I don’t squad with grindheads just looking for another relic to crack, so it’s kind of slow going, which I’m fine with

Edited January 25 by Merkranire

[Merkranire]

42 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

After a quick look at your profile it appears that you you actively choose to not use prime items. After 4+ years you have like less than a dozen prime items and you're over here arguing with people about what goes on in fissures. 

Are you so antimeta that you purposely gimp yourself then complain? 

You're pedaling a moped down the freeway calling people jackasses and telling them to slow down.

They’re kind of interconnected, you see; me not jumping into Public and the slow rate of Prime acquisition. I’m not willing to stand around for 5 minutes twiddling my thumbs and am forced to leech while you do everything, apparently I find the alternative so much better that I’m sacrificing reward rate like some kind of godless heathen

[Berzerkules]

Just now, Merkranire said:

They’re kind of interconnected, you see; me not jumping into Public and the slow rate of Prime acquisition. I’m not willing to stand around for 5 minutes twiddling my thumbs and am forced to leech while you do everything, apparently I find the alternative so much better that I’m sacrificing reward rate like some kind of godless heathen

Godless heathen, that's the nicest thing you've said this whole thread. Thanks😈

[Merkranire]

13 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Godless heathen, that's the nicest thing you've said this whole thread. Thanks😈

I let the reward rate slip, efficiency is something I’m concerned with if I don’t have enough of it even if it’s not maximum, I don’t even take the most optimal option to the fight all the time 😨

Pretty sure I’m some blasphemer. Best not listen to me like I have anything worth saying, I’ll have you using Dragon Keys to add some spice to a fight when they were clearly meant to let us go infinitely high 🤡

 

Edited January 25 by Merkranire

[(PSN)clary_pangs]

Actually i'm very thankful for nuke builds if i load in late and just p;ick up all the reactants to 10 then extract. Also, it's a fissure so ofc i would bring a sunder build 400% strength and spam if i load first and i usually get TY by people who load late especially if the reward is 100d part. the only time i dont do that is survival and defense when theres enough enemies for everyone. and SO and ESO. i think single target in public is better for open world or circuit or anything that isnt fissures, unless it's one shot and a crowd dies.

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Oh great, Ervin’s here to tell me why playing a certain detrimental way is the only option that makes sense.

I don’t care about relics per hour (RPH), this game’s a marathon anyways, I want to have fun playing it, the things we get from relics are nice to have but not necessary and won’t make or break the fun but are nice rewards to get after playing some game, and I’m rarely joining public with the hopes of landing with either someone like OP who’s also looking for someone to play alongside instead of trail behind, or some newbie who can’t obliterate everything and we fight together instead of against each other.

You’ll note, Ervin, that I said “Rarely”; that’s right, the reason public matchmaking can be so empty at times is because solo’s right there as an option not just for me, but for anyone, and in my case I know Fissures are a hotspot for players like you, and it goes from a rare general occurance of joining Public to hopefully fight alongside someone in any mission to a vanishingly rare case of joining Public Fissures because I know how this community operates

I'm saying the exact opposite. When you join a PuG anything goes.

It really doesnt matter what you care about or want, or how often you run a PuG. You arent more important than anyone else in that group, so whomever sets the pace sets the pace, you either live with that or avoid PuGs. I rarely PuG myself outside of the quick fissure missions and archon stage two to get them over with faster. Though there is really only one of them where I always PuG and that is the interception, the others depend on my mood. Reasons I dont PuG alot is because I dont want an early quitter, I dont like enemies spread all over a survival map (which is why I dont PuG archon survival) and if I run Disruption it isnt guaranteed the other 3 players need the same rota reward as me.

10 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Anyone who matches with you is a victim or a hinderance when they’re not trying to be after they were already considerate about how they built in the first place for the sake of leaving some game to play.

It goes both ways. You talk as if your way is the only way and everyone else does it the wrong way, so you and people like you are the only victims in a PuG. That is just high horse BS. The fast clearing player also puts consideration into builds, since in these games clearing fast to get more loot is the most common approach. So he bulds to clear fast so others can also benefit from his progress if he ends up with newer players that need alot of items still. If you dont like that possible outcome, then dont set foot in a PuG. And someone without access to fast clearing that wants fast clears should likely do the same since there is no guarantee that he'll end up with someone that is built to clear fast either. Though due to the game going on the 11th year chances are high every group will have alteast one player that can clear fast.

edit: Just a quick example. I did the Archon Disruption recently. The other 3 people barely dented the Demos on their way to the conduit. Lucky for them I was on my Kullervo that can 1HK practically anything. Without that they'd never be able to complete it. Should I have sat there twiddling my thumbs instead going "oh dont want anyone to be a victim here in the PuG"? Because one of those might have been "you" and we wouldnt want to step on the toes of your considerate builds right?

Edited January 25 by SneakyErvin

[ShogunGunshow]

There is daylight between 'I've built a frame that does this mission efficiently' and 'I've picked a build that makes it so other players literally don't get to play.'

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

If your build isn't actively invalidating the existence of the other 3 players in your squad, are you even playing Warframe correctly? My builds will steal your jobs, take the kids, and buy out your house from underneath you, all before you've loaded in. All the enemies on the map? Gone. All the pickups, vacuumed. Mission objectives? Completed. Hosts? Migrated.

To be more serious, if you're really having issues contributing, perhaps your builds need adjustment? If you're not getting any kills, check your weapon modding and optimize accordingly. Maybe your ability range is insufficient? Perhaps you need to work on your movement speed and parkour to get ahead of the pack?

If you're struggling to contribute to an ESO run in your Nyx compared to the Volt, the Saryn, and the Garuda in your squad, maybe you should tailor your expectations accordingly? Not all frames can be as effective in all content as other frames.

If you want a chill relic cracking experience instead of the usual mad dash, play an endless relic fissure, like defense or survival. Or get together with some like-minded friends who want a slower paced match. Public is public, and you'll run into all kinds of builds and players there. Some want to be as efficient as possible and move on to the next thing, because time is precious and life is fleeting, so every second spent unnecessarily waiting for other players is time wasted out of your precious few years on this earth. Others are happy to smell the roses. Public matchmaking means you get all kinds, and you don't get to dictate your experience. 

If you want something different, where you do get to set the rules of a run, play solo. Otherwise you just have to accept that other people have fun differently to you, and play catch up when someone's fun is dealing bigger numbers than you, faster than you.

Edited January 25 by Armadillidium_vulgare

[ReddyDisco]

Expecting fissures to be anything but run and gun is setting yourself for disappointment.

[Merkranire]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm saying the exact opposite. When you join a PuG anything goes.

It really doesnt matter what you care about or want, or how often you run a PuG. You arent more important than anyone else in that group, so whomever sets the pace sets the pace, you either live with that or avoid PuGs. I rarely PuG myself outside of the quick fissure missions and archon stage two to get them over with faster. Though there is really only one of them where I always PuG and that is the interception, the others depend on my mood. Reasons I dont PuG alot is because I dont want an early quitter, I dont like enemies spread all over a survival map (which is why I dont PuG archon survival) and if I run Disruption it isnt guaranteed the other 3 players need the same rota reward as me.

It goes both ways. You talk as if your way is the only way and everyone else does it the wrong way, so you and people like you are the only victims in a PuG. That is just high horse BS. The fast clearing player also puts consideration into builds, since in these games clearing fast to get more loot is the most common approach. So he bulds to clear fast so others can also benefit from his progress if he ends up with newer players that need alot of items still. If you dont like that possible outcome, then dont set foot in a PuG. And someone without access to fast clearing that wants fast clears should likely do the same since there is no guarantee that he'll end up with someone that is built to clear fast either. Though due to the game going on the 11th year chances are high every group will have alteast one player that can clear fast.

edit: Just a quick example. I did the Archon Disruption recently. The other 3 people barely dented the Demos on their way to the conduit. Lucky for them I was on my Kullervo that can 1HK practically anything. Without that they'd never be able to complete it. Should I have sat there twiddling my thumbs instead going "oh dont want anyone to be a victim here in the PuG"? Because one of those might have been "you" and we wouldnt want to step on the toes of your considerate builds right?

You don’t even know what being built for the content entails, Ervin, which comes as zero surprise

It means being able to help with the fight without taking everything away. If I’d been squaded with you for that Archon, I would have been built so that I can do my part, and the other three could do theirs; if that meant we barely scraped through, so be it, at least I was an actual teammate and they were actual teammates instead of one of us soloing the multiplayer portion, and if we failed then we could discuss what we needed to change so that we can have a better shot without someone pulling an Ervin. 

You’re only a hero for those who don’t know any better, and you’re a pain for those who do. And for like the fiftieth god damned time, there’s no comparing someone who’s built to fight and someone who’s built to take the fight away

edit: You can say you’re saying the exact opposite, but like I’ve been saying, there is no “Anything goes” because there’s only what some grindhead is doing that goes because there’s literally no space for anything else, and since we’ve established that Public is a lawless land in-so-far as you’re grinding efficiently, then the only thing that goes is efficient grind

The community has rules, and if you follow them, you become a problem squadmate

 

 

 

 

double edit: 🤔 Although even after saying aaaaallll the stuff I’ve said, I don’t think it’s completely a problem. It’s a matter of dosage, like how I love being overpowered but too much of it gets stale and I set it aside temporarily

Right now there’s too much dosage of heroes, no matter where I look everyone’s trying to swoop in and save the day for everyone else. It doesn’t help that when they’re pulled up for their being annoying, they concoct some excuses as to why they’re in the right and why they don’t need to change anything and why it’s just a different playstyle that’s not harming anyone’s gameplay

Edited January 25 by Merkranire

[HeavyFarms]

On 2024-01-24 at 1:51 PM, Merkranire said:

What entitlement are you talking about?

22 hours ago, Merkranire said:

and you are the problem.

How much better do you think the Public domain would be if you went solo instead, eh?

This entitlement. You are so entitled, that your problem is suddenly everyone elses problem. 

Its only your problem chief. 

On 2024-01-23 at 4:18 AM, Merkranire said:

I just want to get out of the squad ASAP,

You see how this is the solution you always return to? Getting out of the "problematic" squad. 

You can actually just change the game so you leave a squad before it ever starts. Its a pragmatic forward thinking solution to solve your problem. No longer will any player who just wants to complete a mission quickly or easily suddenly make you feel insecure or inadequate about your life. You already left their squad before it even ever existed. 

Every other normal person just goes solo or bring their friends. When I want to level something, I grab a buddy and we stay in a survival till we max our weapons and leave. We don't play public cause other public players don't want to stay as long as we do. Your entitlement so far would lead me to expect you to complain about teammates leaving too quickly or staying in the mission when you want to leave. 

Cause you've shown you don't give a damn about what anyone else would want. You just want psychic players playing exactly to your preference. 

[HeavyFarms]

18 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Anyone who matches with you is a victim or a hinderance

Another example of your entitlement btw. 

Most teammates are niether a victim nor a hinderance. A hinderance would be a player that actively slows down progress of the mission. Unless you are playing with noobs, most players in the game are more experienced, more powerful than you and unlikely to be either words you desrcibed. 

18 hours ago, Merkranire said:

they’re not trying to be after they were already considerate

Neither are you. 

Its called entitlement. You feel you are entitled to other people considering you. You feel like its what you are owed. You are owed nothing. Its a public space. Most people just want in and out. Like going to the gas station. Its first come first serve. 

Take your own advice. Leave the squad before the mission starts and play solo. Or find some friends that can actually tolerate you, (Good luck btw) and you can share the enemies so there's ample for you to kill. 

[HeavyFarms]

On 2024-01-24 at 1:58 PM, Merkranire said:

I’m using the new things I get while getting new things. They don’t start off max-rank for one, and they need some leveling, so that’s an excuse to bring them, and I’d like to be able to use them while they level

And your low level weapons are going to be weak cause they are low level. You should probably level up weapons, just like you leveled up your warframes, mods, and powers before you try to use them to get new things. 

There's this mission type called survival. I like Amarna Survival for leveling personally. Then when I finish a weapon, I let it help me get other new shiny things :)

[Aruquae]

19 hours ago, ShogunGunshow said:

There is daylight between 'I've built a frame that does this mission efficiently' and 'I've picked a build that makes it so other players literally don't get to play.'

You sure that’s daylight? It could just be someone Arca Plasmor spamming 

[Hexerin]

On 2024-01-21 at 7:12 PM, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

This is why you should run fissures on Steel Path. 

Thermal Sunder erases Steel Path as well.

Edited January 26 by Hexerin

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

3 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Thermal Sunder erases Steel Path as well.

True. But more enemies tend to spawn in Steel Path. It makes the chances of not collecting enough reactant a little less frequent compared to the regular versions.

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, Merkranire said:

You don’t even know what being built for the content entails, Ervin, which comes as zero surprise

It means being able to help with the fight without taking everything away. If I’d been squaded with you for that Archon, I would have been built so that I can do my part, and the other three could do theirs; if that meant we barely scraped through, so be it, at least I was an actual teammate and they were actual teammates instead of one of us soloing the multiplayer portion, and if we failed then we could discuss what we needed to change so that we can have a better shot without someone pulling an Ervin. 

You’re only a hero for those who don’t know any better, and you’re a pain for those who do. And for like the fiftieth god damned time, there’s no comparing someone who’s built to fight and someone who’s built to take the fight away

edit: You can say you’re saying the exact opposite, but like I’ve been saying, there is no “Anything goes” because there’s only what some grindhead is doing that goes because there’s literally no space for anything else, and since we’ve established that Public is a lawless land in-so-far as you’re grinding efficiently, then the only thing that goes is efficient grind

The community has rules, and if you follow them, you become a problem squadmate

 

 

 

 

double edit: 🤔 Although even after saying aaaaallll the stuff I’ve said, I don’t think it’s completely a problem. It’s a matter of dosage, like how I love being overpowered but too much of it gets stale and I set it aside temporarily

Right now there’s too much dosage of heroes, no matter where I look everyone’s trying to swoop in and save the day for everyone else. It doesn’t help that when they’re pulled up for their being annoying, they concoct some excuses as to why they’re in the right and why they don’t need to change anything and why it’s just a different playstyle that’s not harming anyone’s gameplay

And not everything was taken away either. Disruption is a common place to spread out in so it is cleared faster, since you tend to rely on the other 3 being geared enough to take down 1 demo solo per rotation. This was not the case here. People with too much hope in their own capabilities started conduits when they couldnt handle the demo at all. They still had all the time in the world to try before I reached their demo. So it was a last second intervention. Their damage was so low it really wouldnt have mattered if I went with my lower damage options in the build. If they had actually removed considerable parts of health I would have probably just shot the demo to death together with them. But as it was, there was zero reason to not just go Wrathful on each Demo from that point on. Since in the end, those 3 other players didnt provide any actual help to the encounters.

If you had gone there "built so that I can do my part" you would have likely never completed the mission. Since I assume by that statement you'd have built so everyone feels included or similar atleast. Or would you have built so you could handle a demo solo? If so, why point fingers at me? The outcome would have been the same for you in that case, you practically killing all the Demos alone, since the others just did so little damage that they might aswell have not been there to inflate the demo health in the first place. And if you wouldnt use a build that could handle a group demo solo, then you would have never cleared the mission due to the others dealing so little damage that your damage wouldnt be enough to make up for it.

"The community has rules, and if you follow them, you become a problem squadmate" That sentence makes less than zero sense.

[ShockTNC]

On 2024-01-19 at 12:38 PM, Zinxori- said:

Say you got yourself a shiny new Gotva Prime from the Twitch Prime rewards, and you were itching to try it out in a mission. You pull up a Exterminate Fissure mission on Public matchmaking, just to increase the chances of a good reward. However, inevitably, and as many of you witnessed I'm sure whether you've been playing for 5 days or 2 weeks, that IDIOTS with no consideration for the others in the squad, will bring some ridiculous "nuke build" to Exterminate mission and blast all the enemies to hell in like 2-3 casts, and the mission is over before you even aimed up your weapon.

To some this is probably fine, and I'll sound like a complainer, but at MR27 and playing since 2015, I've seen every decent "nuke build" from Mirage Simulor to stuff like Saryn 4th spam in the current age. In things like Defense missions where the time to finish can go up due to enemies being spread out everywhere, using a wide-range, powerful nuking setup is ABSOLUTELY VALID AND UNDERSTANDABLE. But in a simple Axi Exterminate mission??? C'mon let me just shoot my Gotva and leave happy. I know I cannot be the only player who feels this way, but I'm probably one of few who would actually make a whole forum post about it. I hope this reaches players and that it generates a healthy discussion on why Nuke Builds should be UNACCEPTABLE in a simple mission like an Exterminate. Have respect for your fellow Tenno and LET THEM PLAY THE GAME TOO, or you'll risk stepping on someone's toes, even if you don't know it, or didn't intend it that way.

I was with you until you insulted other players for playing the game as it has been designed, which wasn't very far.

People are going to min max their builds, insulting and demeaning people for making their frames as strong as possible is very toxic and selfish. Yes there is a big problem with frames being able to nuke huge chunks of maps- but players wanting to make their frames strong is not the issue. So leave the snobbery out of it please.

[ShockTNC]

On 2024-01-19 at 1:25 PM, Tiltskillet said:

A lot of people love having somebody who can melt fissures fast.  I'm not often one of them, but I can understand the sentiment rather than getting angry about it.

Am I a bigger idiot for recognizing that many players have very different goals than me, and if I want total control over my game experience, the solo button is right there? Or for still  trying to use a Javlok in public fissures?  Depends who you ask, I guess.  :/

Idiot or not, I'll suggest to you that you should remember that this is a framework that DE set up.  And perhaps you should address your concerns to them rather than lash out at the supposed rudeness of the playerbase for playing differently than you want them too in a public mission.

 

This 110%

[ShockTNC]

On 2024-01-20 at 11:36 AM, Thorham said:

Good point.

Yeah the people who nuke fissures to the point you fail the mission is very annoying.

[Xylia]

On 2024-01-20 at 8:25 PM, Kaiga said:

but it's not 2014 anymore.

Maybe we need to go back towards 2014.

This is one of the reasons why I don't like public matchmaking, I don't like just running through a level way behind everybody because everybody has +1000% movement speed mods and enemies just die as they run past without them firing a shot from the looks of things.

But yet, stuff like trying to get a necramech is too hard to do solo because the missions are tuned to having these godlike powers of just snapping your fingers and nuking thew hole map at once.

So, it's either be absolutely bored to tears and not even get to shoot anything in a public match, or try to solo it and fail because the enemies are just too overpowered to ever hope to solo.

And half of the time, I don't fail because I got killed, I fail because I was asked to defend a piece of cardboard from enemies that take way too long to die.

But yet DE, for some strange reason, decided that ALL of the stuff that lets you solo anything should be locked behind The Steel Path, which requires The New War, which requires Necramechs, go figure.

Anything with any power at all requires this stuff that you can't solo, and is absolutely unfun to do in public matches.

Or, yanno, cough up plat to buy the Necramech. /eyeroll

Edited January 28 by Xylia