We really, really need more options for building efficiency

[OgreEye]

I'm not gonna lie, energy economy is easily one of my least favorite problems I have to deal with in this game - largely because at high levels of play, no energy VERY quickly translates to being on the floor. As it stands, our only options are streamline, which I would say is begging for a prime (please I would be so happy), Boreal's hatred, which is nearly inconsequentially low, and fleeting expertise, which, aside from being designed in such a way that you never exactly hit the 175% you want with streamline at any rank, also reduces duration, you know, the other stat you need to help energy economy? You just have very few options to build it properly at the end of the day, and priming streamline as well as adding maybe an augur mod that does like 20-25% would be a huge help.

[Quimoth]

Sorry to say this but you are spoiled or just uninformed.

You have so many ways to restore energy or increase the speed at which you restore energy from other sources these days.

The reason we shouldn't be getting any other efficiency mods is because of blind rage. I have a blind rage rank 6 for a reason, adding a stronger streamline would simply remove the need for that rank 6 and thereby increase power strength of those builds by 36% with no costs or drawbacks.

Adding an augur like efficiency mod doesn't make much sense either given how powerful efficiency already is.

TL;DR;

No need for more efficiency in mods, just be efficient yourself.

[Tiltskillet]

I think you're right in a way, but Efficiency is only part of the equation.  I find Energy (and Duration) sources generous enough that Efficiency is rarely important.   This probably feels different to people who don't have all these sources yet though.

 

[OgreEye]

2 minutes ago, Quimoth said:

Sorry to say this but you are spoiled or just uninformed.

You have so many ways to restore energy or increase the speed at which you restore energy from other sources these days.

The reason we shouldn't be getting any other efficiency mods is because of blind rage. I have a blind rage rank 6 for a reason, adding a stronger streamline would simply remove the need for that rank 6 and thereby increase power strength of those builds by 36% with no costs or drawbacks.

Adding an augur like efficiency mod doesn't make much sense either given how powerful efficiency already is.

TL;DR;

No need for more efficiency in mods, just be efficient yourself.

Spoiled I guess. I hate how energy is handled in this game more than either of those though. energy nexus is the greatest idea warframe's had in a long time, and I really wish that it was basekit, but even that doesn't deal with the fact that for a lot of people you just have to spam something to stay alive, or the fact that channeled abilities turn off everything that isn't an orb, or if you're someone with a relatively low impact damage ability you'd like to use consistently that for some reason costs an entire orb to use at base rank. you'd still be sacrificing a considerable amount of your modspace to be building the efficiency, and to be 100%, a lot of the best frames don't even really care about it. But with the upcoming nourish nerf, I think I'm far from alone as someone looking for more options to deal with this.

[Nekomian]

While I get this post is about efficiency, it's also an unnecessary stat with how many sources of energy regen we have.

Rage / HA, Energy Nexus, Energy Siphon & Dreamer's Bond, Spectrosiphon (which "works" on any frame as Spectrorage is subsumable), Dethcube's Energy Generator, Arcane Energize, Nourish, Dispensary (also subsumable), Thurible, Rally Point (which is insane with nourish + high ability strength, as both scale from it), Energy Vampire, Equilibrium, and finally Wellspring / energy pulse from Zenurik and energy pads (usable regardless of any frame) are all viable forms of maintaining energy without modding for efficiency (quick edit: this list is not exhaustive, I just tried to include as many as came to mind).

While I'm not opposed to new mods that have the stat in some way, it's not super necessary is all, with many builds opting to use blind rage and just having any of the listed forms of regen allowing for moderate casting of abilities.

Edited February 27 by Naroxas44
additional info

[quxier]

24 minutes ago, Naroxas44 said:

While I get this post is about efficiency, it's also an unnecessary stat with how many sources of energy regen we have.

Rage / HA, Energy Nexus, Energy Siphon & Dreamer's Bond, Spectrosiphon (which "works" on any frame as Spectrorage is subsumable), Dethcube's Energy Generator, Arcane Energize, Nourish, Dispensary (also subsumable), Thurible, Rally Point (which is insane with nourish + high ability strength, as both scale from it), Energy Vampire, Equilibrium, and finally Wellspring / energy pulse from Zenurik and energy pads (usable regardless of any frame) are all viable forms of maintaining energy without modding for efficiency (quick edit: this list is not exhaustive, I just tried to include as many as came to mind).

While I'm not opposed to new mods that have the stat in some way, it's not super necessary is all, with many builds opting to use blind rage and just having any of the listed forms of regen allowing for moderate casting of abilities.

While I don't like solution for specific setup/frame (Rage needs take damage to hp so not for every frame), subsuming abilities (Spectrorage, Nourish etc), using specific companions (e.g. Dethcube) or using specific school (Zenurik) however general purpose "ways" are in pretty good situations.

Energy nexus for non channeling abilities are pretty good. As Equilibrum, it takes 1 slot but you have 7 more. So I think it's "fine".

The problem is mostly channeling abilities. For those Primed Efficiency or some sort of "efficiency way" would be nice.

ps. Energy siphon & Dream's bond is meh

 

[Vryheid]

Rank 4 Streamline + Rank 4 Fleeting Expertise + Primed Continuity gives you the efficiency cap without losing any ability duration. Is three Warframe mod slots a reasonable ask to allow you to spend only a quarter of the energy that your abilities were originally balanced around? I think it's a fair trade. Sure, if I'm trying to get a ton of efficiency while also having high range and strength and duration and survival mods then yeah it feels impossible to fit everything in- but that's the fun of experimenting around with and trying to optimize Warframe builds, isn't it? I like that its tricky to balance everything and that I have to think outside the box to keep up my energy if I'm willing to dump efficiency for more mod slots. Some frames like Styanax, Hildryn, Gyre and Citrine are even balanced around being able to be effective with very low efficiency. You can even use tools like Arcane Energize or violet archon shards as an alternative means of improving your energy economy while channeling without using up mod slots, but even then there's some degree of opportunity cost (as there should be).

Overall I think energy economy is in a pretty great state right now, especially with that Dreamer's Bond aura that got added (dramatically helping the issue of energy regen feeling terrible for new players), so I'd rather not see the game potentially botch the careful balance everything is in with a new "best in class" efficiency mod that doesn't come with any sort of meaningful drawback. 

[Deputy-Facepain]

I tend to find duration to be an effective alternative to efficiency. Give yourself more time between casts to recover the energy you need. Most frames can run 45% efficiency with a duration focused build. Having nourish as a subsume, and zenurik school regen can pretty much make your energy needs a thing of the passed. Hopefully the incoming nerf doesn’t gut it completely. 

[asianguy262001]

synth fiber on a primer companion + equilibrium 👍

[VibingCat]

42 minutes ago, asianguy262001 said:

synth fiber on a primer companion + equilibrium 👍

Equilibrium has recently become self-sufficient without Synth Fiber.

[asianguy262001]

1 minute ago, VibingCat said:

Equilibrium has recently become self-sufficient without Synth Fiber.

isnt synth fiber the mod that increase health orb drop chance? synth something else is the mod that let companion pick up health orb

[Hexerin]

6 minutes ago, asianguy262001 said:

isnt synth fiber the mod that increase health orb drop chance? synth something else is the mod that let companion pick up health orb

You're thinking of Synth Deconstruct. Synth Fiber is the one that causes your companion to gain +100% final armor if you pick up a health orb.

[Hypertion]

at this point Primed Streamline really wouldnt break the meta too much... +45% Efficency would be a nice single mod effect. that said Boreals hatred + Fleeting is max efficency, add Prime Continuity and your probably not going to move off that 3 part combo for max efficency..

[Waeleto]

Primed streamline when ?

[PollexMessier]

Energy economy is more about ways to generate energy than to reduce cost. Of which there are many options.

Worst case just pop an energy pad. I always have them in my gear in case of emergencies.

There's not many frames I think max efficiency is really necessary on. And the few that I do, their energy economy issues extend far beyond the point where the current energy efficiency cap would help. Particularly Gyre and Ember. Those two burn though energy like they need it to breathe (Cus in a way, they do), and no amount of efficiency or energy generation seems to help much with it. Which is hilarious cus both of them have a way to generate energy from just casting abilities. They need help.

I don't struggle with any other frame energy wise. I can almost always find an energy upkeep method that works for them.

Edited March 2 by PollexMessier